John Polkinghorne - Why a Fine-Tuned Universe? 

I met John Polkinghorne on a train that was just about to leave Cambridge in 2010. We spoke briefly: I thanked him for his wonderful books. He was surprised that anyone would recognise him! Humble but brilliant man.

John Polkinghorne was truly a great thinker, and it is a shame we can no longer hear more of his wisdom. Rest in peace.

The universe is not fine-tuned. It just is what it is. It's our MODELS that require fine-tuning. Once again, that probably simply indicates that our understanding of reality is rudimentary.

it's interesting (and sad) to notice that him and Weinberg have died this year... Two different views one destiny ... No one knows which one. Fascinating !! (and great interview too)

May he rest in peace 🙏💛

It's nice, and rare, to hear an intellectual say that it's ok for intelligent people to respectfully disagree. I always doubt those who speak in absolutes on subjects where there is no absolute answer. So many don't think like this.

Hopefully he now knows whether he was right or Steve was!... But unfortunately we still don't know whether he was right or Steve was!

RIP I guess he now knows if he was right or wrong

I believe in a divine creation. Multiverse you still have to explain who created it.

Another nice one, the never ending, it seems, fine tuning problem .... Interesting and even after studying really hard, maybe, yes probably, your guess is as good as mine. And that can be a good thing!

5:00 "...Novelty, truly new things, emerge from the edge of chaos."

We must chip away the darkness and negative spaces (greed) so that a positive image of good (god) emerges.

Lots of other universes that you where never born into. Makes sense, hard to prove or disprove.

Every time fine tuning appears in these titles, a Theist is the guest. Who else would flog this dead horse, which never lived to begin with?

His reasoning for the "hidden" God is right on. I think so often, we overlook one of the absolute greatest lessons of theology - one of choice. Faith without chouce, faith fueled by indisputable fact is not faith at all. That demands nothing of the individual. A degree of skepticism and suspicion is an absolute cornerstone piece of the freewill formula, and a necessity for faith to have any real value.

Clearly, there is no fine tuning of the universe. I don't even know why this is serious discussion. If anything is "tuned" it's us, through billions of years of time and evolution.

*An Overview of the Fine tuning argument* For many, the regularity of the universe and the precision with which the universe exploded into being provides even more evidences for the existence of God. This evidence technically known as the Teleological argument, derives its name from the Greek word telos, which means "design." The Teleological argument goes like this: 1. Every design has a designer 2. The universe has high- complex design 3. Therefore, the universe has a designer *The Anthropic Principle* Scientists are finding the universe is like that watch ( anology of William Paley ), except even more precisely designed. These highly-precise and interdependent environmental conditions (called "anthropic constants") make up what is known as the "Anthropic Principle"-- a title for the mounting evidence that has many scientists believing the universe is extremely fine tuned (designed) to support human life on earth (Thats why some notorious atheists including Antony Flew later believed in God). Some Anthropic constants example include: Oxygen level • On earth, oxygen comprises 21 percent of the atmosphere • That precise figure is an Anthropic constant that make life in earth possible. • If oxygen were 25 percent fire would erept spontaneously • If it were 15 percent, human beings would suffocate Carbon dioxide level • If the carbon dioxide level was higher than it is now, a runaway greenhouse effect would develop, and we would all burnt up • If the level was lower than it is now, plants would not be able to maintain efficient photosynthesis, and we would all suffocate For more evidence: reasons.org/explore/blogs/tag/fine-tuning/page/2 reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/rtb-design-compendium-2009 *What are the chances?* It's not there just a few broadly defined constants that may have resulted by chance. There are more than 100 very narrowly defined constants that strongly point to an Intelligent Designer. Astrophysicist, Hugh Ross, calculated the probability these and other constants would exist for any planet in the universe by chance (i.e, without divine design). To meet all conditions, there is 1 chance in 10^1038 (one chance in one with 1038 zeroes after it)-- essentially 0% chance. According to probability theory, odds of less than 1 in 10^50 equals " zero probability" . Check:reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/probability-for-life-on-earth It only proves that atheism is just a dogmatic belief. Nearly 2000 years ago, the apostle St Paul wrote in his letter to the Romans, *_" For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse"_* _Important: The term “entropy” describes degree of thermodynamic “disorder” in a closed system like the universe. “Maximum entropy” would describe the “heat death” of the universe (which is the state it is slowly gravitating towards). Amazingly, our universe was at its “minimum entropy” at the very beginning, which begs the question “how did it get so orderly?” Looking just at the initial entropy conditions, what is the likelihood of a universe supportive of life coming into existence by coincidence? One in billions of billions? Or trillions of trillions of trillions? Or more?_ _Sir Roger Penrose, 2020 Nobel prize winner and a close friend of Stephen Hawking, wondered about this question and tried to calculate the probability of the initial entropy conditions of the Big Bang_ _According to Penrose, the odds against such an occurrence were on the order of 10 to the power of 10^123 to 1_ _It is hard even to imagine what this number means. In math, the value 10^123 means 1 followed by 123 zeros. (This is, by the way, more than the total number of atoms [10^79] believed to exist in the whole universe.) But Penrose's answer is vastly more than this: It requires 1 followed by 10^10^123 zeros_ _It’s important to recognize that we're not talking about a single unlikely event here. We’re talking about hitting the jackpot over and over again, nailing extremely unlikely, mutually complementary parameters of constants and quantities, far past the point where chance could account for it_

I don’t think the multiverse does explain the fine tuning problem away in the way it is touted to do. I’m not necessarily saying it must be God. What I am saying is, the fine-tuning problem must still exist to be able to create a multiverse? Something, somewhere along the line, must have been fine-tuned, even in a multiverse?

Interesting 🤔 as always. 🥰👍🏻 The word “God” certainly means lots of different things to lots of different people. Like alchemy did before we figured out chemistry. It is always strange to me that someone can say what god would think or is doing… or whether god exists. Like they know. Why is every concept of god different? It’s the same thing with “free will” debates. We don’t know enough to even have a debate like that because they don’t understand how the brain works and relates to our experiences and choices. The best information about that is the theory of evolution and how it lets us understand a lot of our patterns and mental life. Anyway thanks 🙏🏻

How do ppl still think an iron age mythology can shed light on the question of the quantum multiverse, or anything else in the realm of scientific claims? Still baffles me. One cannot say whether the Universe was fine tuned, or not, because we do not know the range of possible parameters or the rules that govern their values.

to me its more like a "fine tuned mind" haha

If the universe was really "fine-tuned," wouldn't everything be in perfect balance, and therefore, there would be perfect nothingness? Isn't the fact that there is something a sign that it's "out of tune"?

John Charlton Polkinghorne is talking what we British call "BOLLOCKS"

Theology is a proto-science of feared humans.

The most fine-tuned thing of this fine-tuned Universe is the ability of human beings to lie to themselves, pretending that everything is "perfectly ordered", the life is all beautiful rainbows and butterflies, as if there are no diseases, wars, mental illnesses, crippling viruses, deadly bacteria, dangerous predators, tons and tons and tons of pain and suffering we close our eyes to, as if it weren't human beings, who for thousands of years have been ordering, organizing, improving, fixing, making more livable, more beautiful and more sane this cruel "fine-tuned" mess we found ourselves in.

Not fine-tuned. Whatever emerges in the universe is a result of the conditions in the universe

Could we ask Mr Polkinghorne what he believes about the Earth's moon. For myself, I find it fascinating to think of our heavenly body that is exactly 200,000 times smaller than the sun, and exactly 200,000 times closer to the sun than the Earth giving us perfect eclipses. What I'm asking is does John think that just happened like that? Also, the Earth would rotate once every six hours if there was not a moon which would make life as we know it impossible. Also, our moon does not rotate which gives us a beautiful clear full moon etc., and if it did rotate like every other moon in the known universe, it would make looking up the sky much less interesting. Add to that the fact that the there just happen to be 24 hours in a day. Very amazing coincidences. Add to that the 23.5 degree tilt to the Earth which gives us exactly four seasons. I don't know for sure but if it was tilted differently, wouldn't there be more or fewer seasons. Mr Khune, Mr Polkinghorne, what I'm getting at is that I've laid out a lot of coincidences that just don't add up to chance in my mind. If you ask me, the Earth was seeded, there was probably a moon like Phobos that was modified to be a same-face orbiting sphere and placed exactly in its present-day orbit, clocked to be exactly 24 hours. I'm not a scientist, but it doesn't seem possible all of those coincidences are just that. What say you?

God is a gamer. Not too serious, good sense of humour and on and on. Puzzles, mysteries, sports, games, music, art, fine tuning, debauchery, programming, debugging, god's into it all. We are god, "I am you and you are me and we are all together"

The science and the areas of science are related together, by the ways which universes, are !

If God is a hidden god, then all those who claim a personal relationship with him are lying.

The lighter elements, plasma, extreme cold and extreme heat are abundant in the universe. If there is indeed some panpsychic field then it would have aspired life, into beings made from what is most abundant. We could be but a rare curiosity where the panpsychic field found a way to whisper life into even slime on debris, on waste from stars, almost star poop, all this in a very narrow safe zone of temperature, radiation etc.. Space is clearly very hostile for us. Those distances are too large and nothing makes really sense to us. That fine-tuning could have been better.

Howe many things particles, forces, theories.. could we adjust the knobs of and it would have very little impact on the overall composition or formation of the universe .. This is a form of negative confirmation bias ..or negative results..

I have heard Sean Carroll say something similar about “chance and necessity” or the boundary between “order and chaos” being necessary for “interesting” things to happen, for truly novel creations. Are there any books or articles on this idea, by Polkinghorne, Carroll, or others?

What is more plausible: 1. That there are multiple universes and we happen to live in one that enabled us to evolve. OR 2. That there is one universe that we are in. Those of you who are now thinking will come to realise that even with a multi universe, what created, or how did so many universes come into existence? The Multiverse theory opens a pandora box of questions!

VERY well articulated.

Could time play a role in fine tuning for life, intelligence and humanity on earth?

A nanosecond equates a nanosecond, perhaps for the second electron Volt, to proceed per nanosecond.

Only those things that are possible happen. Given enough time, we happen. Coincidence bothers us because of our ego. God might like it that way. Who knows?

The+puddle+thinks+the+cavity+in+which+it+lies+was+fine+tuned+just+for+it.

When we enter the temporary and painful world of matter, we lose (and forget) our eternal life of perfect bliss and knowledge. Therefore we start speculating, but all we get is an illusion of what we lost.

Study gravitational biology and you quickly realize life elsewhere is unlikely. Without the same exact G, even simple chemical reactions can’t occur.

Why the Fine Tuning Argument for the Existence of God or Intelligent Design Fails ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RTIUjyxNl7I.html

Hmm? Does “Unlimited and Infinity” exist together?...Or......Apart? It all comes down to 0 and/or 1... Algorithmic or/and Digital? Is it 0 or/and 1 ? Does “Artificial Intelligence And Humanity Co-exist? It would appear so! But Which is Unlimited or Infinite! TITQ?

Universe provides many requirements for humanity through laws and constants of nature (fine tuning); however something special on earth to put together for life, intelligence and humanity (anthropic principle)?

"That's just the way it is," is intellectually lazy according to Polkinghorne. Then, "Well, some would say there are multiple universes, and ours just happens to support us," is just the first statement dressed up. "Well, God did it," is, of course, the ultimate in intellectual laziness. No data. No experiments. No thinking. No nothing. Well, except magic. And hubris since the underlying assumption is that it's all for us, marvelous humanity.

What solid evidence do we have for the existence of God that is not based on faith or things written down on paper by man?

The universe is NOT, I repeat, NOT fine fucking tuned!!!!!

What are you trying to get at? Do the Gods have duties? Does God make plans? If we knew those duties could we use them to manipulate the Gods? If we knew God's plan could we use it to our benefit? The Gods don't make plans. Does the universe? Whether it's a black hole or a birdhouse, knowing how to build one doesn't put you in control of the future.

Watch carefully, kiddies, as this is what confirmation bias looks like. Vic Stenger put this poor, flogged horse to sleep long ago. Long story short, if you hold all variables except one constant, that one variable looks fine tuned. Repeat procedure for all variables (allowing only single variables to vary while holding all others constant), and they all seem to be fine tuned. Allow covariance for all variables at the same time, and you have a zillion possible conceivable life-containing universes, one of which we happen to inhabit.

Can the multiverse be used to support argument for Copernican principle?

It’s lucky that our Universe is fine-tuned for us to survive. Or the Universe is fine-tuned because of us. Either way, if we end up in another Universes that are not fine-tuned for us, we will become unconscious and die immediately. Unfortunately, AI supercomputing power will never attain the living first-person consciousness EVER because consciousness is not about computing at all!

Ah, we can’t explain this so called fine tuning so it has to be some giant pixie in the sky who thought it up out of nothing. How very scientific! I had hoped mankind had advanced since stone age man thought there must be spirits and gods everywhere to explain natural phenomena, but apparently not.

What would a universe look like if god was not involved? Now imagine what a universe where god designed, would it really have all the pain, evil, natural disasters, so much Galaxies and space? Really?

Evoking a god creator solves a multitude of mysteries only because it’s easy to attribute a multitude of answers to an all powerful being. But of course, this leaves open one rather troubling question; where from came your god?

Science vs a godhead? Who created science and who created god?

Why not perfectly turned instead of fine turned ,surly god would do his absolute best ,I mean "God" us in his image so why not make a perfect world for us .

"The idea of a multiverse is quasi-scientific, therefore the world was created by God (our God)." I mean, while I can even appreciate an argument for fine-tuning through some abstract act of intention, the idea of deriding a scientific hypothesis for lacking sufficient evidentiary grounding and then favoring a particular brand of iron age superstitions is a bit absurd. That's like saying "Due to human limitations, you can't explain everything -- therefore with this set of far cruder explanations, I can."

What do they mean by fine-tuning, our world is made from some substances that are always exactly the same. Question is, could those values be any different. First, we should understand why is world made from very tinny things that are exactly the same everywhere. Like why can't we have all kinds of electrons of various sizes, all they do is carry energetic charge anyway, so the exact magnitude of that charge shouldn't matter. But then we should understand what do we mean by lumps of electric charge, made from what, existing where, where did all the electrons came from and such. The same goes for all quantum particles of the same kind, they are always the same, this impossible property leads to the conclusion our world must have been built somehow, either by chance alone or by a thoughtful design. The universe is a stable and a very persistent illusion only because of that natural fact. It's illusion because these things are not solids, particles don't contain energy, everything in existence is energy, but this energy exist in various distinct varieties and potentials. This is how we come to the second premise involved in our idea, saying, if everything is energy, then all manifestations of physical forces must be one single substance. But if everything that exist is a single thing, then those separations and varieties must be incredibly well selected and fine-tuned, up to an impossible perfection. Some illusive force split in 4 subforces, and they're all fragmented into discrete pulses of appropriate potentials that never change. This conclusion imply what we see as separation or distances, must be an effect of those fine-tuned energetic composites. So the idea of multiverse is actually much the same as God of the gaps, some scientists believe that the same substance our entire universe is made from can be fragmented in many other ways, giving rise to infinite amounts of different universes. Except this one is tuned to produce objects like stars, planet and life, others must be made from different kinds of energetic substances and forms, not possible in our dimensional sequence of realities. Not a single experimental evidence exist to support those ideas, they are derived from incomplete mathematical equations. When dealing with impossibly large objects and scales, infinities come naturally, since infinity is part of an open theoretical construct. We don't really know how big the universe really is, so mathematical values must be left open somehow. The same goes for all quantities, they didn't know how to end those loose ends ,so they came up with alternative dimensions. Other worlds are supposed to begin where our world fades away. But this would mean the entire universe can't be so perfectly tuned, edges of reality are not sharp but blurred somehow. And this inconsistent theoretical blur is present everywhere in physics, including relativity and QM. Here is an example, apples grow in the wilderness on their own, but we don't want wild varieties to mix with sorts of apples we find most digestible and delicious, so we grow apples in optimal garden conditions and cut all the rest. Apples sold on markets are of perfect shape, size and taste, because they were growing in selected and fine-tuned conditions. Wild apples can look and taste very different, up to a point we must ask if they're apples at all or certain trees has mutated somehow, producing some completely new fruit variety, not digestible by humans. If conscious humans can be the cause for natural selection that gave rise to existence of apple particles or better say appleness, this example would imply some highers conscious could cause our variety of the universe existence. Like there are wild varieties of universes out there, but some intelligent force was breeding only our kind of physics. So humans could come to be, of course, why else bother. It's a joke, i made that up to show how ridiculous modern popular science has become. It's because scientists are told to follow consistency of ideas, originating somewhere from Ancient Greece, possibly Mesopotamia, all the places where holistic speculations has emerged through the history. So we can see a random, natural selection of ideas in progress, shaping our civilizations as we go. Those ideas are an example of fine-tuning also, they are a conscious, deliberate constructs, but the process itself is completely unknown and random. The substance of thoughts never change, it's always exactly the same electrons, but our visions of reality are becoming ever more complex and strange. This is what it takes for reality to be real, when everything is not a nothing.

Scientists may not be able to explain life, but at least they're trying and proofing their hypotheses. Whereas religious people accept their scriptures without caring about whether they're right or wrong.

Sample size so far: ONE UNIVERSE. Fine tuning does not require a Fine Tuner. Also, humans adapted to a largely hostile universe, this universe abhors life, and anyway, who cares about this universe having life in it? So what? Some universes may have life or not have life. Get back to us after you explore the "fine tuning" of OTHER universes. Geez Louise.

I think it’s a mistake to think in terms of a third party God, an old guy in a white robe who does miracles. That’s just religion. It makes more sense to think of the universe itself as a mind, with the overmind being made up of lots of smaller individual minds, just as our body is both one thing and also billions of individual cells at the same time. Another analogy would be the hive mind made up of thousands of bees or termites. Individual bees come and go, but the hive mind is immortal.

I'd like to know what star(s) exploded to make us.

Sorry

O man what are you doing at this level of awareness you must consider to take a inner trip of yourself ,atleast try once I feel bad for you ,you surely have much more knowledge base then me but I am seeing like this yo will only wonder outside and time will end for you.atkeast try to know some fraction of reality on a experience level not on satisfaction based on logical mental thinking .

His theological bias pouring out here lol 😆

God explains anything you want, but nothing explains God, making it a worthless argument.

if god created the fine tuning of the universe he did a terrible job. The waste and disorder is astounding and not ordinarily mentioned or recognized by theists. The earth God created for his special human creations is only 29% land and 71% of that is inhabitable. The arrogance of theist who propose to know the mind of god and the intentions of such a secretive and hidden god is astounding.

It is just the meaning that we giving by saying fine tuned universe!!!! Humans always do that!!! There is NO fine tuning in quantum world

That all sounds very delusional, you have to keep it real and true and remember what and who exactly we are

there NO question about fine tuning--the only argument is, who or what you give credit to for it. I credit God/Higher Power.

But the minute you introduce a divine creator as an explanation for teleology, your focus, your curiosity, moves onto the nature and explication of the "divine creator" .....Let's explore that! And what do you find? A rabbit's foot. A dead body that comes to life premised on bronze aged mumbo jumbo