Calling someone your brother who wasn’t actually your brother was like unheard of in that time period its something that was normalized recently the fact that he even said it once speaks volumes about their relationship
@@Fallen-gryphon Arthur and John were raised together under Dutch. John was always like a little brother to Arthur, and despite initial skepticism when John ran away from the gang after denying Jack was even his, Arthur went along to go save his son, then save his common law wife, then saved John and helped him atleast flee to safety where other gang members hadn't been so lucky.
@@squeaky206 yea I know I’ve played the game still it people around the time period of 1899 didn’t call people that they weren’t related to by blood brothers very often was extremely rare John only says it because he knows Arthur is going to die it was a way of saying I love you
@@Fallen-gryphon Dutch tends to call John brother around Chapter 6. Arthur calls Sean a little brother to him reflecting on the ambush and his death in Rhodes. Lenny can be seen as a younger brother or even a son of Arthur, and it's clear he took the death of his adoptive father and son very hardly and may have contributed to his death.
John is obviously sad that he's gone but it's never been in his personality to mourn or anything like that. He knows with the life they lived that people come and go. He does miss Arthur, as he hears his voice in his head all the time, but he's never really been one to show inherent sadness towards death
@@blakethecat5556but he's never been completely emotionless. John usually comes off as angry, but is very expressive when the moment is right. This would have been that moment. Even just some long pauses or a great big sighs would've gone a long way.
@@threemar3 Well compare his reactions to both Hosea and Lenny's deaths as well. Like everyone else, he was angry about Hosea's, but kept his head until he got arrested. As for Lenny's, his only reaction when Arthur told him was "No.." He's in disbelief about it but he's never shown to be upset, and especially with Hosea I feel like if he was gonna show it, right there would've been perfect. So in that case I think John has more or less.. accepted and moved on
@@threemar3 ngl that is the most realistic dialogues i can think of.. Those brother and these some emotional lines sounds too dramatic and unrealistic for a cowboy who knows he and the dead friend both are dirty and deserves hell Though moment of silence is the most realistic
I don't get why they'd cut this out, but at the same time if they're going to have dialogue of John visiting Arthur's grave, it should be more heartfelt and sincere. These cut voice lines sound like John doesn't really care that much about Arthur dying. If I was visiting my best friend's grave I'd be sad every time.
I don’t think he’s actually buried there I think that’s just where Charles decided to put his grave If you think about it it probably took a while for Charles to hear the news from Canada and then we don’t know when he came back to the US I think the Pinkertons would have taken Arthur’s body the same way they initially took Hosea and Lennys before the gang stole them back.
@@uhbzsb275 yeah he was, he helps the wapiti tribe flee there after eagle flies dies, even when John asks him if he knows about Arthur’s passing he says news got to me up north or something like that
I remember wishing he would hang Arthur's Hat by his grave and say thank you, so it would be a really amazing sendoff and would explain why his hat wasn't present in the 1st game
Their is a voiceline for visiting Arthur's grave as the last thing you do before 100%. It's along the lines of "I guess we're just about done my friend" and a small cutscene plays with unshaken.
I like the fact that John was supposed to have lines about Arthur's grave, but John's quotes feel so sarcastic and even ungrateful to the guy who used his last moments of life to fight for his family and save him... I'm sort of glad these lines were removed, because John doesn't sound thankful enough towards his fallen brother.
He doesn’t really sound grateful in Arthur’s final mission either, he just says Arthur is his brother once and thanks him before leaving. Thanks to the first game we know that’s mostly due to his introverted personality which leads to him preferring actions over words, but his personality comes off quite wrong without that bit of information.
@@SalvageET I personally think they should've made John's personality less "quiet and cold" and more deep when it's about people who are close to him. I mean, I like John's style. But I honestly think his personality should be deeper than that... At least when it's about Arthur's sacrifice.
@@grimreaper6060 yeah, we see him being less cold when talking with Abigail or Jack, but he speaks to Arthur the same way he speaks to pretty much anyone else
@@SalvageET Even though we all know John is thankful on the inside, it's still a little revolting hearing John talking about Arthur in such a superficial way.
they're pretty bad. sometimes even if you love something you got to step outside of your vigilant fanbase mindest and realize that something is actually kind of shitty.
@@chardonnayshorty8486 not only corny but also kinda like… rude? Like Jesus John show some respect this guy is the reason your family isn’t rotting in a cell or dead.
These sound like they would've varied with honor to some extent, like a lot of voice lines in the game. That one actually could've made a lot of sense if your Arthur and John had diametrically opposed honor, like, your Arthur had a very high honor when he died, and your John had very low honor at the time of visiting the grave.
I'd be crazy if John saw Arthur in his dreams when using the sleep mechanic. Based on Arthur's honor, he could haunt John or go fishing with him and Jack
He killed thousands so he does deserve it in this life, but if he was never in a gang then yeah he would’ve been a nice citizen. Also i 100% agree with ur username bro 👴🏻
Arthur was a conflicted man but to say he “didn’t deserve to die” when he robbed and murdered thousands of people. Think about all the families that never seen loved ones again because of Arthur. He was never supposed to be the good guy, just a bad man who chose to do something good towards the end
It hurts that John talks about victory when he literally broke Arthur's promise, murdered Micah and that led to him being found out and you already know the rest...
I'm kind of glad they were cut. I always felt the way John talks / his tone always makes him seem disconnected or like he barely cares. Same with Uncle's death
I wish they would have had John say a line at each of the fallen gang members’ graves that was unique to their character. I thought it was odd visiting the graves and him not saying anything.
I don’t think people understand, this takes years after Arthur’s death. I think there should’ve been a cinematic where Charles, Sadie, John, Abigail, Uncle and Jack visit his grave but I think it’s perfect as is. These voice lines were to represent John moving on from that time, also he doesn’t like to talk about Arthur hence calling him “Old Friend.” It’s what Arthur would’ve wanted.
I remember searching on Google the exact spot of Arthur's grave. I refused to believe he wouldn't come back in the Epilogue. As soon as I reached the hill and read the tombstone, I started crying.
Rockstar failed at this badly John could have said some more sincere stuff I mean how many times did Arthur save his ass and worked hard to protect his family and pretty much gave his life for John at the end if not for sickness I believe Arthur still would've done it the same way people owed Arthur more than they said in their one liners when speaking of him after he was gone shame Rockstar failed in this IMO!!
They didnt fail they did the right thing by cutting those voicelines. I suspect they were recorded very early and originally arthur and john stayed rivals till the end. Somewhere along the way they changed that and they had to cut the voicelines. Maybe the last missions changed last minute and they couldnt record new linea...
Truly Brotherhood was this. It's good past times people how respect and loved each other. It's shows everything. ❤❤ Arthur when dead definitely I was sad💔
They should have had it work like how when looking in a mirror, you can press circle to comment. Or just use the greet mechanic, only he doesn’t respond 😔
I can see why they cut it, marston’s actions don’t match the lines and the performance of these specific lines wasn’t that great either. Guess these lines were an afterthought maybe
So people keep asking why there's no dialogue so I'll help explain. Sacanime summer 2019 someone asks Rob Wiethoff "When John Visits Arthur's grave, I was hoping there would be a few words, but there is not dialogue. So I was wondering what he would have said to him" And Rob responded "I think, there's no way to thank someone the way you would want to thank them of they did for you what Arthur did for John. I think you would only belittle the situation if you tried to put it into words. So maybe it was something they did on purpose, so you would feel that opportunity to be able to share your own thoughts with it? I don't know, but how could you possibly thank someone for doing so much?---- But with so much help from Arthur's guidance , I think there's not, there aren't words that can be spoken to really give the things that would be necessary. " You can find the video and see for yourself 🙂
Hang on. When i finished the story back in 2018 i inspected arthurs grave and john did say "blessed are the peacemakers" You mena to tell me they cut all dialogue since then!?
It would have been a nice gesture if John had said a few words at his grave. After 3 playthroughs, I've just completed the story with John and I'm very disappointed that John barely mentions Arthur, and when he mentions him, he talks about him as if he was just a random person. Arthur saved his life and his little family many times... He deserved more :(
It’s way deeper than that, dude. John still thinks about Arthur, regularly, he mentions that he does to Mary-Beth. Jack and Abigail talk about how John doesn’t speak of Arthur in Beecher’s, and John’s words indicate that he doesn’t know what to say because he’s still very sad that he couldn’t save Arthur as he had saved him many times. I was also surprised by how John doesn’t speak of Arthur that much but it makes sense, especially given into context how in RDR1, John doesn’t bring him up at all. I recall a comment that said that John knows that Arthur’s legacy is over and it saddens him deeply. When someone dies, it’s hard to casually bring them up in a conversation. Even if Arthur has been dead for almost a decade.
Yeah, John barely mentioning Arthur in the epilogue and abigail mentioning he doesnt like talking about him was the writers genius way of explaining why he's never mentioned in RDR1. (Because arthur didnt exist when rdr1 came out and the gang was nothing more than a backstory for John at the time.)
@@thegreatynot5049 I know that, and it's completely acceptable. What I miss was just a simple remembrance of Arthur. I loved him so much and missed him so much. It would have been very nice if a few kind and honest words were said about him..
@@EvilGeniusRANIK thinking about him won't change anything you can't do anything about him , you will forget him or just thinking about him in personal space
@@محمدمهدی-ض7ل8ع Its not about changing anything...It's a simple dream/thought John has about the guy that saved his life and entire freaken family. Unless John has severe amnesia, no amount of philosophical mumbo jumbo can excuse anyone like Morgan to be completely forgotten from the Marston's memory.
@@EvilGeniusRANIK you're right he actually is one of those most important people in his life, but after he done what he must have done, the easiest way is trying to think less to him , he took his best friend's who he owes him his life to him revenge
Probably cut because these lines kinda suck, like he's practically mocking Arthur with a few of them. I like that these were removed and instead at 100% he just says "looks like we're done here old friend"
Unpopular, but these aren't terribly fitting. Keeps talking about "victory", but that was really more of a Micah thing. Also the "I still don't understand ya" part. Like John didn't deep down understand Arthur's motives.
>Like John didn't deep down understand Arthur's motives. it's kinda fits judging by what john said about arthur's character in his last days during "bare knukles friendship" mission. charles talks about how the sickness allowed arthur to understand life better, and john seems to doubt it a little or even disagree with charles.
When you get 100% You get teleported to Arthurs grave and John says Guess we’re just about done, my friend. I was on a low honor play through so the grave said Blessed Are Those Who Hunger And Thirst For Righteousness. Arthur Morgan.
This game is a 💯 out 10 but they missed the mark on this. Definitely should’ve had John saying some heartfelt emotional words. That would’ve have made it so much better. It is what it is, still an absolutely phenomenal experience & game play.
I wish there was an after credits or the last shot of the game was John going up to Arthur's grave and placing down his hat and satchel and saying 'Thank you, Brother' choking on his words and then riding off into the sunset.
