John Voelcker Talks "How GM's Ultium Electric Car Revolution Went Off The Rails" | Episode 275 

Thank you again to John Voelcker for taking the time to speak with us! Link to his full article: insideevs.com/features/709703/gm-ultium-problems-software-batteries/ We also reached out to GM and received an official response: “GM confirmed that removing phone projection has no relation to the issues leading to the pause in sales of the Blazer EV.”

I was really happy to see John's article when it came out; finally answering the question "what the heck has gone wrong with Ultium batteries". It's even cooler that he is here talking about it. Great job getting on this so quickly, Out of Spec!

My last three EVs were a Volt, Bolt EV, and my current 2022 Bolt EUV... GM killed the Volts, Killed the Bolts, and raised the prices on the Equinox EVs out of my price range. And now they concentrate on building $100,000 EVs that no one wants... that is if they can, even after all the Bolt BS mine you, build a working EV at all! Screw them... I've placed a $500 Deposit on a Volvo EX30! This is not an EV issue... it is a CEO issue!!!

I thought this was the most interesting bit of EV news in a while as it’s more of a behind the scenes on what’s going on instead of the usual promises of something grand two years from now. Appreciate the effort!

Thank you for having John Voelcker! He’s a titan of the rare intersection of outstanding journalism and EVs.

I was building the Ultium Lines at said Tier 1 supplier for Spring Hill and Ramos. One of the most compact and complex lines I've ever seen. Requires highly skilled millwrights, electricians and TIME to get everything working right.

😂From far away it looks like you are both interviewing Tim Cook!!

Great interview with John! He's got such a deep knowledge of the EV industry and a ton of contacts within the automakers. I really hope he comes back on the podcast to talk about what's going on with all the changes to America's DCFC infrastructure. Francie! Terrific job putting this pod together! I really appreciated the editing to show photos of the cars that were being mentioned. It was helpful for visualization. Thanks!

Great video, thanks guys! I can’t understand why ford and GM are starting with full sized pickups. Maverick buyers would JUMP into and electric truck, but full size truck buyers seem to be quite skeptical

Curious why this battery module assembly story blew up now? The Detroit News reported this in July 2023. We already knew about all of these issue 🤷🏼‍♂️

Another GREAT program, EXCELLENT guest, and, the Dynamic Duo of EV News. I sent this immediately to my friend (EV Sales) at the local GM Dealer where I bought a new Bolt EV ♥️ - (You saved it Kyle!) and suggested it as “MUST SEE” for ALL personnel. This same ownership group has Honda, locally, and a Hyundai dealership 90-mins away, so there shall be learning ahead! Hard to grasp the sheer speed on this EV thing, and your advice and counsel prior to purchasing the Bolt, were invaluable. FRANCIE: May your Vinfast never betray your trust. Updates always entertaining. When Sandy M. reviewed the V, in Vietnam, he was impressed! Hope springs. 👍🏿👍🏿👊🙏🏻

One of your best podcasts, so far!

Fantastic work guys! LOVED this podcast. Read the article yesterday and it is an excellent piece. THIS is the kind of information we need to keep moving the needle forward. 👏🏻

After buying my 2020 Bolt EV (with 8300 miles) last year and holding on to my 2010 Mazda 3 hatchback for a few months to be sure that an EV works for me, I finally listed the Mazda on Craigslist yesterday. I sold it a few hours later after someone drove an hour to see it. I had five inquiries within 24 hours including one this morning after deleting the ad. So you can tell me that I didn't ask enough for the Mazda, but don't tell me that Americans won't even look at a compact hatchback. Maybe this guy doesn't realize that the Tesla Model Y, the most popular vehicle in the world (including ICEVs), is essentially a compact hatchback. Tesla calls it a "midsize SUV", but its dimensions are similar to the Bolt EUV. It's a bit longer because it has a frunk. Height is the same, and width is six inches greater. It's only a foot longer than the Mazda. The difference between a Bolt EV and an EUV is almost entirely in the back seat. It has three additional inches of leg room.

Nice to see that Tim Cook has a side gig as a automotive reporter.

Why are GMs nrw EV products 10k more than they should be with all their mass production ability

GM says major EV problems should have been fixed before cars were sold The Electric Viking

Chevy should not stopped production of the Bolt. They seem to be selling and bringing people into the Chevy family. Attracting a buying segment ignored by others.

I have a Blazer EV. I will take the software update now please.

Great presentation!! Volker’s perspecitve is appreciated; great cast.

Great episode. I hope you’re able to do more interviews of journalists like this. (Also, thanks for pointing out the article. It was a great read.)

Another great podcast episode and such a big topic that everyone in the business has been wondering about. Really enjoyed having John on our podcast as well recently, such a valuable resource!

Great interview. Lets hope GM can get this vehicles on the road soon.

Tesla went through this too around 2017 with the Model 3. Their supplier couldn't get it done, and were covering it up. Those boys they got from Grohman Engineering saved their bacon by coming up with a new system in record time that actually worked. Also, Tesla software on the Model 3 was buggy in 2017. The key thing though, was it was 2017. By 2018 it was working well.

I liked the Kei car analogy to North American pickup trucks!

Great show. Great guest. Well done!

Terrific episode OoS team! Love watching.

Mary Barra did it again! Lead GM to unDeliver on its promises !😮

Francie is awesome. Great episode everyone!

Enjoying my Lyriq after being AFFECTED by the issues described. The corporate Tragedy the complete incompetence at GM and Cadillac in failing to treat this issue as worthy to communicate to the on order.

Fabulous discussion. Out of Spec kills it again.

Great article and a surprisingly good interview. It is common in the EV fan community (I am a long term member) to believe that the "legacy" manufacturers will simply fade away. The thing is, I am also a long term fan, follower, and even sometimes participant in that legacy industry and know the resources and raw manufacturing power that the industry can bring to bear once it decides what to do. They are followers of customer demand, not leaders, but they follow like a freight train. Need an example? GM is working through an assembly problem. It isn't a core technology issue, it is about bringing real industrial scale to profitable EV production. GM would Never 'bet the farm' on a yet to be developed technology like the dry electrode 4680. GM is late, but they will be able to assemble modules quickly or they will call in some other robot manufacturer. There is no guarantee that Tesla will ever be able to scale the 4680. That's the key thing that people who expect GM's failure miss. Lots of inertia in the old companies, but once they are moving they get the job done. BTW, BMW is building (having built) longer 46mm (wet electrode) cells in volume today.

Interesting that GM Ulitum's main production bottleneck was module assembly, since that was also the bottleneck for early Tesla Model 3 "production hell." Tesla had to hire a different supplier to provide automated assembly equipment that worked. Tesla ended up buying the company, Grohmann Engineering, to bring the expertise in-house.

Great video. Very interesting and informative.

Mary has made her stock options more important than the company’s future.

Great interview. Would like to have heard more about the battery fires occurring both in manufacturing ultium and after delivery. Do realize that the Chevy Bolt LG Chem battery fire issue was not on the Ultium platform. But there were still some problems with Ultium battery fires.

Great episode : PLEASE DO focus in on the Dealer Channel challenges faced by the Traditional Auto Makers .

Thanks for a great show! I’m a fan of all things EV and a very happy EV owner since fall of 2022. I live in Calgary where it’s currently -23C (-9F) and I’ve yet to have an issue with my Model Y. People ask me about range anxiety and I ask them about their ICE car “Will it start?” Anxiety. You see, they are already used to plugging their car in… they are simply doing it in a very inefficient way ;) As for the topic: GM is brutally over promising. I understand that most corporations do some of this to keep interest in their products but to see their EV production numbers so low deep into 1st Quarter of 2024 is truly emBarrassing! Remember! They were supposed to be the big boys that would show the industry how it’s done…

I really want to see this happen, cmon GM!

Great content as usual!

You did it Mary!

Great one !

Francie, old does not mean bad. Legacy manufacturers having been around for over 100 years, so they have done something right. I wish the dealership organization would move to a Tesla model.versus the middleman skimming of the margins. BTW John is not young yet is the go to for old school journalism. Three sources. Great work and we are anxious to drive an Equinox.

Follow on episode on the charging issues please !

Thank you.

Digression first, but it has a point. In order to increase the range of trucks, manufacturers introduced larger gas tanks, and a few decided to make two identical smaller gas tanks. Chevrolet just put in a larger tank to increase range, but in so doing filling time becomes worse as thermally, recharging gathers more heat per module. Chevrolet decided that 2 smaller identical tanks would be the better option as it would be possible to separate the packs thermally. I can have a similar cooling system as I am essentially gathering less heat per any given moment. It is also the reason why there is a spike in the charging curve. The one battery gets done charging at the end of its charging curve, and then I charge the other battery. My problems seem to be that the second battery is already warm, which is great in winter, but sucks in the summer. I also have to manage cycle counts of the two batteries. The problem is that I need each module to be two independent modules, and I need some electronics in those two modules to ensure that the module functions correctly during charging. This means my pack level looks the same, and my cell level looks the same, but each module is more complex. Stellantis is taking this concept to the next level by pulling the inverter back to the module level. They are trying to not make 2 smaller gas tanks, but many smaller gas tanks. I still need to manage cycle counts, and I get not 2 recharge curves, but n recharge curves where n is the number of IBIS modules. I am not sure that they need to pull the inverters back to the module, however. In so doing, they will need to manage more flow from more batteries as acceleration is increased. I also need to manage which gas tanks I empty because I do not want to empty adjacent gas tanks. If I do, I lose the thermal benefits of the system. My point is that if anything but the module construction was a problem, Ultium had even worse problems as the complexity isn't at the cell level. It isn't even at the pack level. It is at the module level. Stellantis is trying to make the modules even more complex in order to change the thermal characteristics of the battery, which is necessary as more batteries are pulled together, which happens with increased range and increased energy density.

Fun Fact: The Tesla Model S officially launched on June 22, 2012. Production grew from 15-20 cars completed per week in August 2012 to about 1,000 cars per week in 2015. 😏

Is John Voelcker actually Tim Cook?!

Pretty sweet, nice work!

A 'behind the scenes look' was pretty much what one might have guessed. They chose the wrong suppliers, spurned the experienced battery manufacturers, relied on in-house people that were soon to retire, designed their own battery module from scratch, rushed the ramp-up before they could properly assemble the batteries, decided to reinvent the wheel with their own in-house infotainment software, and they killed off their world-beater, the $27K (before tax credit) Bolt EV, which is a brilliant car (we have a 2020 Premier model). Which, btw, if you can get a used one right now with the $4K tax credit, is an incredible value and quite possibly the best car for the money that you can buy. Honda is making a BIG mistake to depend on GM to supply the platform for the Prologue. It will take them another 3-5 years to work out all the problems with their battery platform. But the used Bolt EV's will still be going strong.

I've been waiting for 18 months to see this covered. Seeing Lyric deliveries in quanties of less than 1000 per month throughout 2022 and the first half of 2023 seemed like a huge story that noone was speaking about in detail all last year.

John is incredible… the best..

Everyone is stepping back Tesla is stepping back from Giga Mexico. Rivian and Lucid flat production for 2024. Everyone wants to see stronger global economic growth before significantly ramping up production capacity.

This was nice.

So GM can't make the packs? Tabed batteries was and still is a big mistake

The more I find out, the more I am confident that my assessment that using stock battery module designs, like the 18650, would have been a better solution just due to the availability of automation tools for module assembly.

Thanks for clearing the FUD that has been spread by every RU-vidr

The Tesla bubble deflated a bit because their other industries outside of passenger vehicles which gave them such a high valuation faltered in this world of high interest rates. Their solar, battery storage, Semi, 4680 promises, FSD, charging infrastructure the increased interest rates are hitting everyone hard in terms of funding expansions and R&D. This applies to everyone really, the high interest rates not only slow down consumer spending and debt growth, but stifles a lot of innovation and productive growth also.

Now own the RS AWD Equinox EV and it is a great car, way nicer that the Model Y. More features that are easier to use and the display is perfect height and size. The ability to put google maps on the drivers infromation screen and use the entertainment screen for other apps is wonderful as I don't need to see a large map most of the time. Was not sure I would like the 21" wheels and tires, but they look good and have a very wide contact to the ground as they ara 75s which should help in rain and snow. I also like the size as I did not want a blazer ev as my wife had a ice blazer if we need a larger vehicle. GM also gave me a lot of discount to get the price to $40000 with tax with 3.9% interest. GM is working hard to make the change to electric and keep the environment from getting worse.

There's a lot more to Tesla than just cars.

This is awesome

Good afternoon

folks don’t let me burst your bubble, Strother Martin said it best, “ what we have here is failure to communicate” as in chargers charging plugs being different manufacturer to manufacturer, the buying public sat back and watched in utter disbelief, this EV revolution can’t even agree on a standardized charge plugs, folks, these aren’t cell phones where everybody has a different plug, where we are wondering where to charge the dang thing

Wish i could understand peoples addiction with car play. I actually go out of my way to NOT use it, in both our cars 😂. I find it more of a hassle than anything.

None of this is surprising. Everyone has talked about how pack architecture and the integration of cells into a viable pack along with battery management and heat management are much bigger technological hurdles and involve much more trial and error than simply manufacturing the cells. Orders of magnitude in fact. This experience with GM shows that but it also shows how overconfident they were and how little they really knew.

If you hear all this you have to applaud VW for their module design of 6.85 kWh with both pouch and prismatic options.

Shipping port trucks and local delivery trucks should be first? I would think mail trucks and vehicles that can get unloaded while recharging. Cars will work as good for grid backup power in parking lots while working. USA made a solid state Polymere battery. It was just released in another brand of Class 3 trucks last month. It was approved for a $40,000 EV discount by IRS. Vehicles are made in Michigan Indiana ? Polymere battery made in California.

I THINK we are all saying the same thing but not saying it……FIRE MARY BARRA!!

Legacy Automakers have shown the BEV knowledge they have leaves a LOT to be desired. The BEV Big Three(Tesla, Rivian and Lucid) are leading in this category

I can't help but think that in 2-3 years, we're going to look back on this time and wonder what we were all so impatient about. It's a good reminder that we all need to take a step back and relax a little when it comes to the transition. It's happening, it will happen. It's just not doing so at the pace everyone got excited about at first. I desperately want to jump in, but when one thinks about it from a rational point of view, it's too early for a vast majority of consumers. Every single EV owner (including those with Teslas) right now is an early adopter in the grand scheme of things. I think it will be very different in 2-3 years.

42:00 I think John has plenty of energy. Very engaging guest.

I suspect that GMs Ultium concept is going to turn out like the F-111 was for the USAF. You start with a concept-down corporate edict, not a cohesive bottom-up integrated and optimized approach for both drivability and manufacturability. Organizational structure matters a great deal. Embedded software means 150+ incompatible suppliers each writing firmware that spawns decades worth of patch-fixes. I hear Enron-style bragging rights when GMs past efforts with the EV-1 and Bolt were disasters that were 100% recalled and scrapped. Mary Barra was all over the airwaves yakking about volume & market share & how & when they were going to overtake Tesla. What have they actually accomplished?

And we’re supposed to get an Ultium Bolt next year. Yeah I’ll believe it when I see it.

Tesla and Rivian don't offer Apple Car Play nor Android Auto either.

I so badly wanted a Sierra AT4 EV, but went ahead and got an R1S instead. Don’t feel like waiting 2 more years

30:50 Volvo EX30 mentioned as limited rear seat room

If the U.S. automakers don’t get it together and do it fast, Chinese manufacturers will be setting up shop either through their own dealers or through partnerships with other manufacturers that are struggling like Mitsubishi or even buy up a brand like Dodge and flood the market with affordable and quality EV’s that will also have good warranties. GM better be focusing hard on the new Bolt. Hopefully that was thought about when they designed the new Trax and it can be an easy EV conversion.

Love "That's a great question" people

I'm making this comment after 9:37 of this video. GREAT . Looks like I have to hold on to my ICE vehicle for the next 2 years to see if Ultium is worth it.

I bought 17 volt, happy with it, been a gm guy my life, i wanted to eventually move to a GM electric awd suv. But mary mary mary, all you do is crank out v8 gas hog trucks and gigantic v8 suvs i just dont want to pay so much per mile to operate. Now the stop sale on the blazer ev😢! Get with it.

Basically, even after doing the learning curve to make Bolt originally, GM (management??) did not believe that manufacturing hell existed, even though Ultium had all new battery cells (3X size), module format and electronic integration, and battery platform. And the perspective that ‘production targets were too high to start’ sounds a lot like Management NOT listening was a big part of the problem to start, compounded by ‘manufacturing hell’. Only Q left is, have the GM POTP group(s) learned yet??

How the all-new Peugeot 3008 surprises in design and range! 😮 REVIEW e-3008 Autogefühl

I have had Bolt EV screen frozen before but after cycled the power switch everything works again. Without power switch Bolt Software wouldn’t be stable either. Honda has smarter management, putting power switch in. (Much easier to start with the clean sheet of paper)

The lyriq is priced very well.

Wondering about why GM dropped Apple Car Play? Simply put - MONEY. If you allow the Apple Ecosystem to dominate the infotainment system in your vehicle you will have far fewer opportunities to generate future software based revenue streams. Additionally, you have to accept the features of Apple Car Play whether you like them or so far less control for GM to dictate what goes on in the vehicle.

John is funny. Personality plus.

When you say 'K' cars... I still think of the Chrysler 80's era 'K' cars. (Reliant, Aries, LeBaron, Dart, etc.).

its not that the charging c able wasnt long, the designers put the charging port in the worst place possible.

If the price of EVs is right ... they will sell. If the price of EVs remains too high ... no mass adoption. Edit: Just say NO to all subscription models. Refusals will see that aspect disappear.

I think the early adopters got their EVs and now persons want the charging and battery degradation developments to come around. Solid state batteries that can charge in 10 min or less like fueling takes is what it will take. ICE cars numbers and full scale acceptance didn't happen until haying and bedding horses was more trouble than cranking an engine. The first generation of cars had engines that had short lives and lots of maintenance. Dropping oil pan and removing bearing shims so the gap would close enough to go another 3-6k miles (or way less) on the side of the road if you left the populous parts of the US was just what you did. Heavy pickups for towing will have to have enough capacity to go 300+ miles while towing 17 tons fast up a hill and charge in the time it takes to pump 40 gallons of diesel.

I think EV's are inevitable. It was brushed on for a second, but what about the uprising among the GM and Ford dealerships refusing to stock any more EV's because they don't want to make the considerable investment in a product line that they can't sell?

Could you talk about sodium ion batteries one day in cars I believe that's going to be the future

I would've like to see a camaro EV

Cheers JFK

What's funny is I debated that Ultium would fail with John on social media a few times when Ultium was announced and after their single engineer tried to do a "battery day" presentation. Looks like I was correct. Shocking nobody who knows me.

.. Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤

Two observations they should’ve kept the original name of the article, but the lyric was never going to sell the numbers they wanted. I was looking for an electric car for replace my Cadillac when the lyric was announced I put my name on the list and I never got a serious call back, they’re not available in anything except very small numbers. I think they sold 1700 units in January that’s not a volume car.

GM is great at making EV's - in PowerPoint.

This provided good information but in the midst of all the skepticism and criticism of what GM has or has not done there was no mention of what is going on with competing manufacturers. Outside of luxury brands there is really not much going on in terms of EV sales for traditional automakers with the exception of Hyundai and Kia. So in spite of all the missteps not one mainstream automaker is better positioned or even on par with GM. Numerous times Francie expresses zero confidence that GM can scale up but there is not one non-Tesla automaker that has any shot of even dreaming of producing what GM aims to in 2024. Even if they only hit half their goal they would probably be #2 in US EV sales this year. One startup automaker has thrived in the EV space- Tesla- that is it. Rivian and Lucid are struggling and may not even be in business in 3 years so its interesting to hear so much about how the startups are schooling the traditional automakers. I think Rivian is slated to produce a whopping 57k units this year- if GM produces that few they will be raked over the coals. I also thought it was amazing that no one bothered to mention Google is responsible for the infotainment system- it was inferred in the podcast that GM eliminated android auto/Carplay and developed their own interface with zero mention of Google- in spite of the fact that GM, Volvo, Ford and others are all shifting to Google interface for their vehicles. Phone projection systems do NOT run cars- they never have. Its absurd to suggest that software issues with Ultium or any other models are a result of not having phone projection. BTW, startup EV companies have NEVER offered phone projection- another fact never mentioned in the midst of all that griping about the gall of GM to not offer phone projection.

Making battery cells can't be more difficult than flat screen TV panels and there are 43" TVs for $150 now. If that can be done batteries should be much easier.