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Very good discussion. Both gentlemen, despite their theological differences were most respectful and gracious to each other. Their in-depth knowledge on the subject allowed the listener to identify the common beginnings of the two traditions while at the same time recognising the differences of power vs purity. The example of Samson is a good one of a believer having power but has yielded to the carnal self hence losing out on purity. The doctrine of the " 2nd work of grace" makes sense.
I love this comment! I was born again into a pentecostal church but now am in a Baptist church... does that make me a Pentaptist? Or a Pente-baptist? I suspect that no 2 people have the exact same theology to each other- like theology snowflakes 💗
I think its really hard to disconnect your logical mind from your emotions...maybe impossible. But I see the appeal of Methodism because it helps a person to find a sort of intelligent balance. Pentecostal experience, on the other hand, is REAL. I have been there and I know that it is a real experience, so much so, that it impacts your life in a way that your mind can't quite comprehend. I don't think God requires that you choose between the two. After all, He created you with both inclinations.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:37 📜 *Introduction of Dr. Frank Macchia and his credentials* - Introduction of Dr. Frank Macchia, professor of Christian theology at Vanguard University. - Mention of his presidency at the Society of Pentecostal Studies and his editorial work. - Highlight of his expertise in soteriology, pneumatology, and ecumenical themes, with reference to his recent book. 02:19 🕊️ *Wesley's Aldersgate experience and understanding of justification* - Discussion on John Wesley's Aldersgate experience as a turning point in his life. - Exploration of Wesley's pursuit of certainty in salvation and his interaction with Moravian teachings. - Examination of Wesley's concept of justification and its connection to Christian perfection. 04:00 🔥 *Wesley's quest for full assurance of faith and its influence on Pentecostalism* - Wesley's continued pursuit of full assurance of faith after Aldersgate. - Influence of Wesleyan emphasis on Christian perfection on the development of Pentecostalism. - William Seymour's connection to Methodism and the role of Wesleyan teachings in the launch of Pentecostalism. 06:00 🙌 *Awakening to experiential faith in Wesleyan holiness and Pentecostal movements* - Discussion on awakening to a deeper, experiential faith in Wesleyan holiness and Pentecostal movements. - Emphasis on the quest for more of God and the pursuit of spiritual experiences beyond mere confession or ritual. - Testimonies of individuals experiencing a transformative awakening to the presence and power of God in their lives. 09:12 💬 *Addressing theological concerns within Pentecostalism* - Pentecostal efforts to address concerns regarding the division of the work of Christ and the work of the Spirit. - Critique of historical tendencies in Pentecostalism to prioritize charismatic manifestations over ethical virtues. - Exploration of the need for a stronger christological foundation in Pentecostal pneumatology. 11:30 🔄 *Integrating pneumatology with the broader Christian narrative* - Discussion on the need for Pentecostals to integrate pneumatology with the broader narrative of creation and redemption. - Emphasis on viewing the Holy Spirit not only as a supernatural force but also as the sustainer of life and present in natural processes. - Recognition of the importance of connecting Pentecost with Easter and integrating the work of the Spirit with the work of Christ. 14:51 ✝️ *Fletcher's contribution to Wesleyan understanding of sanctification* - Examination of John Fletcher's influence on Wesleyan theology, particularly in distinguishing between justifying faith and sanctifying grace. - Insight into Fletcher's emphasis on circumcision of the heart and its connection to Old Testament themes of purity and sanctification. - Discussion on the need to integrate the work of Christ with the work of the Spirit in Wesleyan and Pentecostal theology. 17:48 💧 *The transformative power of Pentecost and baptism in the Spirit* - Exploration of the significance of Pentecost as a symbol of cleansing and intimacy with God. - Analysis of Acts 2 in the context of Old Testament motifs of circumcision of the heart and cleansing. - Recognition of the importance of fullness of the Spirit as a transformative experience and process in both Wesleyan holiness and Pentecostal traditions. 20:13 📜 *Striving for fullness of the Spirit in Wesleyan and Pentecostal traditions* - Comparison of the emphasis on fullness of the Spirit in Wesleyan and Pentecostal traditions. - Reflection on Acts 6 and the qualification of being "full of the Spirit" for deacons, indicating a pursuit of fullness beyond mere confession. - Recognition of shared goals in both traditions to strive for a flourishing life in the Spirit, characterized by sanctification and power. 23:20 🕊️ *Pentecostal Understanding of Sanctification* - Sanctification in Pentecostalism is viewed as an outward-moving, empowering reality. - Pentecostalism emphasizes a dynamic, vocational, and missional aspect of sanctification. - The sanctified life is characterized by increasing hospitality to the world and openness to faith and gifts. 24:52 💧 *Pentecostal Views on Baptism* - Pentecostals highlight the holistic view of Christian baptism, involving both water and spirit baptism. - The World Council of Churches engaged in conversations to bridge differences regarding baptism with the Society of Friends (Quakers). - Distinction between water baptism and spirit baptism is emphasized, drawing from biblical and theological traditions. 26:15 🌊 *Distinction Between Water and Spirit Baptism* - John the Baptist's emphasis on water baptism contrasts with spirit baptism, highlighting a theological distinction. - The spiritual substance of rituals cannot be equated with the rituals themselves, preserving their distinctiveness. - Historical and theological perspectives, including Karl Barth's views, contribute to the discussion on water and spirit baptism. 28:42 📜 *Theological Perspectives on Baptism* - Karl Barth's theological perspective distinguishes water baptism as the beginning and spirit baptism as the completion of the Christian life. - Barth's engagement with Roman Catholic theology on baptism offers insights into sanctification and perfection. - Discussions on baptism involve theological nuances from various traditions, including Reformed and Pietistic perspectives. 32:19 🤝 *Ecumenical Perspectives on Christian Life* - Ecumenical discussions explore the dimensions of justification, sanctification, and vocation in Christian life. - Emphasis on common goals and collaborative efforts among diverse theological traditions. - Recognizing the contributions of Magisterial Reformation, Wesleyan tradition, and Pentecostalism towards a comprehensive understanding of Christian life. 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sometimes i wonder if scholars, in their studies, fall into a trap of “adding” to the teachings of Jesus Christ despite the warning passages in scripture.
We ALL add to--and suntract from--the Scriptures, to support the remaing impure motives of our heart. It's not happenstance whereby the NT writers were delayed, what, 20, 30, 40 years in their transcriptions. It's a decades-long process of having God remove usually one by one, the remaining evil motives hiding in the Christian's spiritual heart. Had the A(a)postles began any sooner, they too would've twisted and perverted Truth to maintain their fig leaf layers.
It is Genesis 15:6, not 12. Genesis 12 deals with the initial call of Abraham Genesis 15 deals with Abraham being counted righteous because he believed God which Paul refference in Romans 4.
Oxymoronic/mutually exclusive title to this video [ed.+: well, usually]. Being reborn is a blessing. Receiving the Holy Ghost upon us subsequent to justification is a blessing. Receiving the instantaneously-given fullness of Agape'/Holy Love is a blessing. Receiving the fully ripe Fruit of the Spirit of unfeigned Meekness is a blessing. Receiving the.... Get it? (Rhetorical; Socratic.) [...and do not mistake hubris for authority.]
In his own Words There are Alot of Markers that Pentecostal seek to experience God and the Holy Spirit .Manifestations of Kundalini spirits are conjured mistaking Gibberish estatic utterance as in "Tongues 'as an outpuring of the Holy Spirit. This is pure knostism and invite familiar Spirits into their churches
@Toby Sweet Sorry , but it seems you don't now nothing about the supernatural character and power of the holy trinity. May God take from you all blindness, that you may see the Truth/Reality-alētheia : " I'am the the Way, the Reality/Truth and the Life (Zoe) God's life through Christ in us ! Wow...God bless you with his infinite Love that was flowing in the life of John Wesley, a great Reformer and for me a Apostolic father !
@Toby Sweet That is really NOT reality and not historical ! That sounds like sectarian ! We have nothing in common, god have mercy on you ! That's the last time i comment to you..."Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, Philipper 3:2-3
So glad Jesus didn't say you have to go to seminary or bible school or become a professor of theology to be my disciple. So glad he chose uneducated men. So glad God chooses the foolish things of the world, to confound the wise (1Cor1:27). He says he will destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing the UNDERSTANDING of the prudent (1Cor1:19). You who are the people of God don't need any man to teach you (1John2:27) because we who are of the New Covenant and are his adopted children have the promised Holy Spirit who teaches us ALL things and brings all things to our remembrance (John14:26). "Except ye be converted and become as little children ye shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven". Doesnt say except ye cram your head with biblical knowledge and theology. ("Knowledge puffeth up").
I was thinking the same thing. Salvation is by grace through faith, water baptism is the outward witness of accepting Christ, and the Baptism in the Spirit is "endument of power from on high" i.e., power for service. It is so simple to read the scriptures and leave the doctrines of men behind!
Of course to be a pastor you do have to be a man, study the word and theology diligently proving the ability to teach. The requirements of an Elder are given and Paul told Timothy that pastors are held to a higher standard.
@@sarahendrix3132 Do not add to the word. ((Deut4:2, Prov30:6)).It doesn't narrow it down to only pastors, and it doesn't say will be held to a higher standard. It says do not desire to be many masters for we will receive the greater condemnation.
@@glennrobinson7193 James 3:1 NKJV My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. See also 1 Timothy 5:19-25 Being able to teach was what I was speaking of and is a qualification for a pastor. Another is being a man, a husband of one wife, above reproach, etc. Pastors are to receive double honor for their labor in the Word. 1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. NKJV I am not saying as a believer we all have to go to seminary or study theology but it can be helpful to study how fathers of old interpreted scripture as in a commentary. The Spirit of course illuminates the Word and helps us understand it. Women cannot be pastors and the Bible does narrow it down in Corinthians and Timothy.
@@sarahendrix3132 It doesn't say teachers it says MASTERS.. THROW AWAY your false version that CLAIMS closer meaning to original greek manuscripts. Changing words is Satan's work, therefore these modern day scribes (bible scholars, theologians, seminary professors) are workers for Satan. How so called "fathers" 'interpreted' scripture is another work of the cunning serpent. Remember the serpent's INTERPRETATION of God's word to Eve when he told her they will be as gods knowing good and evil. Also, calling ANYone fathers flies in the face of Almighty God because Jesus said call NO ONE "father" for ONE is your master/teacher/Lord.
