Joker Folie à Deux: As Bad As Everyone Says? - Review and Full Breakdown 

Too much of a musical for Joker fans, not enough of a musical for musical fans. This demented middle ground is a nightmare.

It took me a moment to see you were dressed as the Joker, and not a formal male Velma. Perhaps it’s that color combo that’s cursed.

Part of me wishes producers stopped getting directors that hate their movies

Gen Z doesn't hate sex scenes. But most sex scenes are like the raining scene, like you mentioned. Completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the plot.

its strange that the first one has more dancing than the musical one

My favorite line was when he said "I'm the joker, baby!"

"People should've been upset that they made a live action Beauty and the Beast movie." Facts.

A scene where the Joker gets SA'd so brutally that he renounces the Joker persona feels like a scene made by someone who absolutely hated the first Joker movie and hated that version of the Joker for some reason. Why? The first movie was so good. DC had a goldmine with the first Joker movie. At this point, I would understand if someone thought that DC had an aversion to making good movies.

"if you liked the flash as a kid you're probably gay now" PAT HOW THE FUCK DID YOU KNOW THAT?!

About Harley "not understanding" that Arthur will get the chair if he's okay, I really think she want that : latter when she said that they lost the "fantaisy", I feel like she wanted him to die so she'll have her perfect little tragic story to tell.

Joaquin Phoenix didn’t want a sequel The director didn’t want a sequel F*ckin’ WE didn’t want a sequel But the execs wanted a third yacht, so a lackluster sequel we get

Im so over juke box musicals; they never improve on the original songs and are just the definition of lazy. But I really didn't like the first movie or the character of Joker so I am definitely not their audience. Whenever someone says "The Joker" is their favorite comic book character, I know to stay away....looking at you Diddy.

I personally hated the DC tie-ins from the first one past just calling him "Joker" and thought it would've been better framed as something like Black Swan or The Whale instead of a full on DC movie. This second one shouldn't have been made. It's so pointless.

Genuinely would not be suprised if they had french in the title because of Les Misérables. Which would be bizarre seen as the reason Les Mis is French because it was written by a French man Victor Hugo

I don't think we are puritans for wanting less sex. Its more that the sex in movies often carry no meaning for character development or plot. It is wasted screen time.

My friends call me the Joker, Baby!!!

This kind of demonization of DID?? In 2024? Feels like some shit out of the early 2000s. Its such a weird addition like it doesnt even make sense, the fact that you barely mention it in the video just further shows how strange and out of place of an addition this was.

never thought I'd feel bad for the Joker "literally me!!" nerds but here we are. imagine making a movie out of spite when millions of people would love the opportunity to tell a story on the big screen. gross! let's stop rewarding people like that pleeeeease Hollywood

I honestly think a musical could have been fine, if it was focused on the joker slowly tearing the city apart. But they didn't do that. It would need to be over the top and absolute _crazy_ when involving the Joker.

I loved the Flash when I was young, and yes, I am gay, therefore I'm personally attacked and you will be hearing from my lawyer

"If you liked the Flash as a kid, you're probably gay now" How dare you be absolutely correct.

My favorite part was when he said "it's jokin' time" and then he jokered to the extreme

A+ for the Frontier Psychiatry reference. I knew the film was screwed the moments I caught a homage to The Umbrellas of Cherbourg in the trailer. As a tech theatre kid, this was a terrible musical. As a comic book fan, this was lazy. As a film nerd, this was a tonal mess I assume WB and Philips made for money. Then again, I thought the first film was average at best.

Tim Heidecker was right all along 5:02 "Lady Gaga, what's next? Lord Googoo?"

I didn't like the first one, but respected they were trying something different with the character, and that Joaquin was giving it all to his performance. But if there was ever a film that did not need a sequel, it's Joker. Its message and theme are crystal clear. It would be equally clear if it were a short film. There was nothing more to say. And I sure don't need them to say it in a jukebox musical.

"Eating an antire bag of potato chips in one sitting" Well goddamn fine I'll put down the potato chips

I kinda feel like the director made this movie bad on purpose because he knew that if he didn't make it, someone else would and the concept would just get milked to death. This way he kinda put an end to it on his own terms.

How has "Succulent Chinese Meal" guy appeared so much in my zeitgeist this week? This is like the 4th thing to reference it in 5 days.

0:40 I’m sorry but the jump scare of seeing a bunch of F1 drivers used as a stock photo is INSANE!!

Wanna know how I got these songs? Well, I'm tha Jokah, baby! 🤡

There actually couldn't possibly be a better Joker movie. The joke is on the audience, and the Joker is extremely sadistic.

Found your channel recently and I hope it explodes in the algorrithm someday. Your review style feels very fresh and dynamic. Keep it up.

Finding out that (modern) Joaquin Phoenix can’t sing is the least surprising thing ever. I’ve been saying ever since they announced it was going to be a musical that “I don’t think that Joaquin Phoenix can sing anymore”

It's a concept of a jukebox musical. The marketing was so noncommittal to this film being a musical to the point you could tell they didn't take that aspect seriously.

I can still appreciate bold experiments in the superhero genre like Joker 2 and Glass no matter how much they might not work as films. They definitely add something unique to a somewhat stale genre.

Lady Gaga is a rare case where a good actress (yeah, you read it right) made bad material work. Her character is horrid and badly written but she played it well and is a bonus that in this musical she obviously shines through. And yet, some folks wholeheartedly believe she's the sole responsible of the movie's downfall.

I'm going to throw a watch party for this movie, invite a bumch of people, and then actually play "The Giy Who Didn't Like Musical" by the Star Kidz.

I just realized Frontier Psychiatrist is over 20 years old I am ancient

The weird thing is that I know Joaquin Phoenix can sing as he did play Johnny Cash in Walk The Line Edit: I'm gonna say it: I like Harley Quinn when she's not under Joker's thumb. James Gunn's Suicide Squad, Injustice, Birds of Prey and the animated series are some of the best Harley Quinn works

I was not a fan of the first Joker movie. I didn't think it was that much better than numerous movies that are on Netflix for a couple of weeks and disappear. However, it caught lightning in a bottle and really resonated with some people. It would've taken a miracle for that to happen again.

I thought it had problems. I give them credit for taking a shot at something wild. Saying that, they missed completely. Horribly. Terribly. But I'd rather get movies like that, with people trying goofy things than a constant churn of formulaic content. That's the same reason I'm glad Coppola tried with Megalopolis, as bad as that was.

I don't even care about the original joker, but as a lover of musical theatre, every single thing and clip I see from this film fills me with inexplicable wrathful despair.

I respect ambition above many things, yet if you’re an artist trying to do something you don’t fully understand; maybe it’s best not to close off those who are professionals out of production.

Man this movie was disappointing. I was honestly pretty excited that it was a musical, cuz that sounded weird, concerning, but interesting.

Aw, come on Pat, no clown makeup?

3:47 erm ackshually that's Wally West, a different Flash than the Flash played by Ezra Miller, Barry Allen🤓(yes, I'm gay)

It isn't NEARLY as bad as everybody says, it's a different art house blockbuster that modern movie goers weren't ready for!

I disagree honestly coming from the camp of thinking the Joker was average and wasn't as profound as some people made it. Trial movies are hard but centering a story on persona can honestly be boring. The symbolism was clear if not boldface. It wasn't a musical that was a device not genre.

Some movies are better left as a standalone. Not every good movie benefits from a sequel.

Only ten minutes in and all you have done is discuss the actual merits of the film… a real film review. I don’t know if you complain about the larger conspiracies now being associated with this film, but I’m happy you addressed the actual movie first and not it’s reception

Omg you are the second channel this week to reference "a succulent Chinese meal" and I had NEVER heard that before 😂

I noticed that the number of viewers who are subscribers is up again, that's good! I actually think the idea of making the sequel a musical for no real reason is kinda brilliant in a weird way, but you'd have to *really* stick the landing and deliver on the execution and apparently this movie does not, at all. Goes to prove that all those AI bros are wrong and ideas AREN'T the only thing that matters in creating art!

Arthur standing in the rain was heartbreaking and you're wrong. The the first movie we find out that Arthur has Pseudobulbar affect, or emotional incontinence - a type of neurological disorder characterized by uncontrollable episodes of crying or laughing, and that it doesn't reflect how the person is feeling. Like when Arthur was on the bus trying to make the kid laugh or on the train when those guys attacked him - he was scared/sad/uncomfortable and THAT'S why he's always laughing like that. He laughed because he was upset. Cut to the scene before standing in the rain. Arthur is brought into a room full of people who just learned on TV that he's fit to stand trial and that they're seeking the death penalty. Harvey Dent called him a monster. Everyone starts laughing and the guard says, "You hear that Fleck? The death penalty. They're gonna fry you, Artie. How does that feel?" Then Arthur starts singing about someone finally loving him - finally caring - finally taking him seriously. He's desprate to escape his reality, which is what every single song in this movie is - his fantasy of acceptance and love, JUST like he did in the first film when he imagined himself on the Murray Franklin Show. And then immediately after that, it cuts back to reality, Arthur is still standing in front of the TV smoking and someone asks him "Are you scared?" and he smiles, trying to hold onto Joker and the fantasy for dear life. And it cuts to Arthur in the rain to show the audience how he's really feeling inside - how Arthur is feeling - and that's terrified. You've got this movie all wrong, man, which sucks because it's SO good. And the emotional performance behind "For Once in my Life" was INCREDIBLE. I just don't think you understand what they were going for in either movies. The first movie was about how no one gives a shit about Arthur Fleck, and the second movie is proving that the audience didn't give a fuck about him either. He was used by other people his whole life, including the audience of this movie as a symbol of something that he NEVER WAS. You didn't get either movie. You saw what you wanted to see, just like everyone else in Arthur's life.

The fact even Lady Gaga couldn’t save this movie speaks volumes.

Bargain bin Joker looks a bit like bargain bin Doctor Who

To be fair, from what I understand, the bad singing on Phoenix's part was intentional. Supposedly (because I haven't seen the move) Lady Gaga sings intentionally badly, too. They're not singing as Gaga and Phoenix. They're singing as Fleck and Quinzel. To your point, though, that's part of the problem. If you're going to make it a musical, the singing has to be good. Having bad singing -- even if it's intentionally bad -- isn't going to win you any friends.

I usually don't like watching video essays about media I haven't seen, but I have to say that your videos are always the exception to this. I really love how you explain them to someone who has pretty much no context. Love your vids and your sense of humor, keep it up Pat

...I thought Gotham was in Jersey?

As soon as you said "drunk coworker" I could hear Joaquin singing. 😂

I was sold on the God's not dead franchise. Great content!

The fact that they went with a jukebox musical and no original songs is an absolutely bizarre choice. I really wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that discussion lol.

11:50 frontier psychiatrist by the avalanches. Great song.

Its truly insane they did a musical....WAIT A MINUTE. Joker is insane so that means musical insane movie thing. Me think yes

The F1 driver karaoke cameo was a fun early surprise lol

The Humans are Dead? Did the third-most popular comedy folk duo from New Zealand tell you that, perchance?

I’m so, so sick of Hollywood jukebox musicals. I feel like it’s a lot of people’s primary exposure to the musical genre, and it gives all of Broadway a bad impression.

A gay person who likes sports? What is this? Bizarro world?

dude the random cumtown audio sent me reeling lmaoo

Even though I agree it's not well portrayed, Arthur falling hard for the first woman to show him any physical affection after a lifetime of being starved of physical touch from anyone except his abuser was one of the parts I found most believable. I've seen it happen in real life. Often to the exact kind of people who found The Joker to be a revelation about themselves.

19:33 as someone who can’t smell, smell is overrated.

I hate that I'm making an "it was bad on purpose" argument, but the way that Pat described the ending really makes it sound like it was dunking on Joker idolizers. "You were Just Arthur all along, your so-called friends are exploiting you for clout, and you'll die alone." Cold water, if clumsily delivered.

My favorite part was when Joker said "it's jokin' time" and started joking off

"Lady Gaga had to unlearn her trained singing abilities to play Harley Quinn" lol what? Stephanie Beatriz didn't have to do that when she played Gina Cazador. It's very possible to still sing badly on purpose even if you're professionally trained.

thanks for showing me this channel, oh algorithm! i like your stuff pat

Save your money just watch Man or Muppet at home and get just a way better value.

I'm not usually supersensitive, but with all the talk about the movie's many flaws, I'm surprised more people don't talk about the assault in the showers. I don't get why it was included and it's giving me the icks, because it either seems to imply it's what sets Joker straight and makes him take accountability, or it's just in there out of a sort of moral vindictiveness, like "see what happens to you when you're like this", and in both cases it's kinda disturbing. I'm being reminded of American History X, and how much more integrally it was set it up and dwellt on the aftermath, and also made it clear it wasn't on its own what set the protagonist to the path of righteousness. Idk, just me?

As a person who loves musicals, i thoughts the way they handled the musical segments was atrocious. It was frustrating to get invested with a scene and have them interrupt it with a song that had no impact on the story I could tell people in my theater didn't like it either as i noticed some of them walked out and started to use their phones less than an hour in. Also to have a Joker film where he doesn't kill a single person is WILD

The best harley quinn portrayals are ones where she's independent of joker. We've adapted their relationship enough.

Pat lookin like a maple tree in fall! Love it!

36:19 Flight of the Concords!!! That show is hilarious!

I heared a theory that the movie is awful on purpose because the creators didnt want to make a sequel but the studio insisted

I really loved Pheonix's singing. But I have a thing for people straining their voice and sounding scratchy. Always feels so raw and beautiful. Agree the plot was boring / nonexistent, but Pheonix's performance and singing saved the movie from being too terrible for me.

You're my new comfort channel, thank you for doing what you do! It's clear you put a lot of effort into your content. Glad to appreciate a fellow Flight of the Conchords fan

it’s such an awful movie 😭 also your insights into your personal life are funny

Gigachad Pat: answers the title question in the first 10 seconds and proceeds to talk for 40 minutes on WHY. Based & Dissertation-pilled.

annother Banger from our guy pat

PAT THERE IS NO WAY YOU DROPPED A FLIGHT OF THE CONCHORDS REFERENCE AND THOUGHT I WOULDN'T NOTICE IT.

People watching this need to know of two things 1. Joker 1 was not a DC movie and is just a remake of the concepts around Taxi Driver and King of Comedy 2. Joker 2 is why major studios are losing so much money...and why Taxi Driver also didn't need a sequel At the very least I am glad the technical staff and crews were paid, I guess...

Also pat i love all the nick lutsko/flight of the concords references, all the alt comedy throwbacks are appreciated by me specifically

How long before people start talking about Joker 2 like it's a misunderstood masterpiece?

I can't believe you referenced Frontier Psychology! I love that song.

Okay, the bargain-bin Joker outfit kind of slays though, I genuinely love the colors

Bonus Pat points? I'll take those. Obviously the Robots song is from... The distant future, the year 2000! (But seriously, I hate that in the UK I'd have to get a NowTV subscription to watch Flight Of The Conchords. I did have the DVDs but lost them in a move.)

Comment for algorithm. You do good work Patrick.

The “Harlequin” album by Lady Gaga is spectacular but this movie is… just… whyyyyyy?

I'm so happy I didn't read reviews before, and watched it without any expectations or strong opinions about the franchise. So I enjoyed it a lot. The singing being bad seemed to be completely in character, that's why I don't get why people call it a "musical" - it was the delusion of the protagonist. And the acting was outstanding. Lady Gaga performed bad singing as a good singer. I found that great, completely in character. The ending was indeed kind of disappointing, but I thought that also was the point. I can understand that "Disappointment - the movie" left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people though, but to me, it felt completely logical.

Man, I must be the only person that liked this movie. I thought it was a perfect follow-up to Joker, a tearing down of any sense that this Joker should be idolized, a rejection of the idea that he should be sympathetic at all, and a rejection of anyone that identified with the Joker in the first movie. Arthur was failed by the system, but that's no excuse for his behavior. This movie felt like it was saying that, both in-universe and on a meta-level.

3:33 the flash was my favorite as a kid and yes i am a gay adult now

One of the more bizarre things to me is Joaquin Phoenix played Johnny Cash in Walk the Line. He sang fine in that! The cover of Jackson he and Reese Witherspoon did for it was pretty popular. Like. He has some singing ability, why you gotta push him so far outside his range and make everyone suffer.

Just an observation: the first movie I thought always flirted a little too much with the idea that Fleck was justified in what he was doing, and the movie is structured to empathise with him a little too much, so it almost seems like this movie is Todd Phillips going "oh, fuck, gotta correct that".