It would have been even more poetic if she actually never got to even touch it. If jon was to walk in just before that moment. That would have been an even better message for the audience.
@@brandonboi9465Or it would have been better if she sat on it after all these years? Not like I'm going to argue with the pleb, but what do you know abou the right messages for the audience? Don't answer pleb. Just be mad that you read it. And search what pleb means you npc.
@@brandonboi9465 that would be awesome I didn't watch the show, just read the books, but kinda of follow it Rob was the guy who won all the battles, but lost the war. Dany being the one who won the war, conquered westeros, but never get the prize would be tragic (in an awesome-for-the-audience way)
It's also in line with who they are at heart: Daenerys is a princess who has been told throughout her life that what she thinks is her birthright was stolen from her and hence she decided to wage war to claim it by force if necessary. Jon was brought up thinking he was a bastard and thought he did not have the right to anything in this life and hence he dedicated his life to serving the realm as a man of the Night's Watch. At their core, they are opposites.
Exactly you can clearly see Jon doesn’t want to do it and is trying to convince himself not to but with every response she gives it’s gets harder until he realises that she’s completely lost
This convo was just Jon tryna convince himself tht he didn’t have to kill her but Dany made it harder and harder with every response she gave and then he realized she was to far gone
She defended killing children in what world besides this clown world does that go with her character go back and watch threw the whole show and see how she deals with the murder of children
The show runners got told they can do a star wars movie so they needed to end GOT and fast thats why when HBO seid do 2 more or 3 more seasons they said no thats why most characters endings did not fit in any way so if you can make it make sense of it in your head thats sad you got screwed for star wars that disney turned around and seid never mind because of how bad they did ending the show
@user-kw6rh8xq2f The worst part is Danny didnt have any clear signs of true moral corruption. Sometimes she had to make hard decisions that ended peoples lives. it was so so so outta pocket when she just decided to kill tons of inocent people. Thats where they messed up BAD is there was no clear signs that she was going competly mad.
@@pappas610 non what so ever she always had her mind in control... whats his face father and brother she had burned for not bending the knee she only did that cause they refused to serve her and thats what she was doing there.. it was a punishment that any leader would have put out but just like bran who seid since he was the three eyed ravon could not hold any tittle or royal name and then at the end becomes king the largest tittle makes no sense
No, they just didn't make it obvious enough to the average viewer that Dany has ALWAYS been a tyrant. We overlooked it when she burned slavers, warlocks, and evil powerful men because we wanted her to burn them. We cheered her uncompromising nature when she was the obvious "good guy." But then she came to Westeros and did the SAME THING, and we could only label it "madness" because we no longer understood why she did it, even though it was what she'd always done. It was OUR expectations of how she should act that changed, not Dany, because we failed to understand who she really was.
@@noturmum7967 - And she burned all the Khals, but they were just misogynistic jerks, so that's okay. And she conquered Astapor, Yunkai, and Mereen and demanded they all bow to her will; but that's okay, because slavery and gladiatorial games are bad. And even when the common people themselves attempted to rebel, she crushed them mercilessly, because HOW DARE THEY. And when the Tarlys surrendered but would not renounce their queen, she burned them alive as an example because...eh, whatever. But sure, it was only at King's Landing that the writers lost the plot and forgot she was virtuous and heroic.
@@dhunter1133 not a single one of your scenerios works here. the only difference is when anybody surrendered to her she let them live. Unless they betrayed her. She didn't burn all of mereen, astapor, and yunkai. She has never been known to kill innocents. Especially innocents who surrender to her. Which sorry kiddo, kings landing did indeed surrender...
@@noturmum7967 - What do you mean, "anybody surrendered to her she let them live." The Tarlys surrendered with the expectation of being ransomed and she burned them alive; you know, one of the scenarios you claim doesn't work here? Look...you want to see what you want to see, and you appear to think everything that Dany did was justifiable, because you agree with her. But the reality is she has been a "my way or you burn" tyrant from the first moment she held power, you simply had no problem with her being a tyrant so long as you didn't like the people she was being tyrannical over.
“Because I know what is good” that was the nail in the coffin. Good, evil and justice are in the eyes of the beholder, and only a tyrant would think they know best.
Also it was never in her character arc. She’s never even spoke like that. “They don’t get to choose” “I know what is good”. She’s always considered the people. It’s just shitty writing to conveniently kill her. She’s always had consideration.
She lost consideration along the line, this was no more the Daenerys that freed slaves and treated them well, she now could massacre innocent people just because they happened to live within the general area she has targeted her attacks
She changed when she got to Westeros. In Essos, she inspired people to follow her out of love and gave them a choice to leave. In Westeros, it was bend the knee or die.
@@aricente Nope. The Star Wars contract was concluded during post-production of season 8, hence it could not have impacted the scripts. Anyway, from a character perspective as presented on the show it makes lots of sense for her to arrive here. This end point for Dany makes sense if you remember that Dany a) uses vicious violence against whoever she perceives to be her enemies when she's upset, b) she has threatened to do this kind of thing before and ONLY didn't do so because she allowed herself to be swayed, c) she has said to Tyrion that the people of KL might be responsible since they didn't rise up to overthow Cersei and hence she (wrongly) holds the entire city responsible. She just decided to not showmercy when the city asked for mercy and she abused her power; In a show that presents people abusing their power for various reasons it should not come as a surprise that Dany, who has the most power out of anyone, will be tempted to abuse her power. There are multiple factors that were presented on the show and that play into her decision. Hence it makes sense.
Nope she was a killer the entire time. Her followers were all slaves, and she killed the free people, even the ones who were against slavery. When a slave killed a master to help her she killed him even though she knew it was a bad move, because she needed to be in control. When she went to westros people were free so she had nothing to manipulate them into following her. So what did she do, turned them into slaves, kneel or die. She could have been happy as a ruler in essos but was hungry for more power. She wanted to rule the world, once she took kings landing she had zero intentions of being a queen and governing, she wanted to conquer more and more.
@@kiamaria331 Jamie was bound not by love, but by his notions of Honour, a Kingsguard, a Knight, just like his mentor Arthur Dayne, but he needed to choose between his vow to protect the people or the King, it was as much tragic as Jon Snow history!
@@VDA19 People could see it coming... just after seasons of explanations and good story telling and character development.... which we did not get in S8....
This is good, the problem is that it was way too rushed. This could’ve been compelling and heartbreaking if the Long Night and the War against Cersei had been developed over at least a couple of seasons.
No. We had everything we needed for this development from season 1 onward. Lots of people in the audience just chose not to think about Dany's decisions and statements too much.
@@Regenmacher175 yeah because of how brutal the show is its hard for a lot of people to distinguish the difference between a swift beheading with no suffering and being fucking burned alive
@@gamerguy19981 she didn't go mad. Noone on the show talks about her that way. She wanted revenge and decided that she was not going to accept the surrender. The episode heavily hints at that early on.
Jon knew what he had to do even though he didn't want to..he still wanted to give Daenerys a chance to see that her actions were going against everything she stood for. He wouldn't let love get in the way of duty like his late brother Robb, even if he was forced to kill the one person he truly loved for the sake of the realm.
He didn’t do it for that empire or country .. most of all he did it so his sisters wouldn’t die like all but one of his brothers died .. he was in pain every time he saw Sansa and dany at odds because he feared how that would end for Sansa
If you've had a chance to play it (and if you haven't I apologise) but there's a Spiderman story where he can either save his aunt from dying or save others in her place and he thinks of the bigger picture, no matter the heartbreak - Jon didn't want to kill Danaerys but it had to be done as she was long past the point of reason, I feel alot of Thrones writing was inconsistent at the end but the only place Jon would find peace is in the 'real' north - where Bran 'banished' him, made perfect sense to me
It's crazy that Jon's words, "Have you seen . . . children. Little children. Burned!" are eerily similar to Master Aemon Targaryen's words, "And the children! Even the little children!", describing the murder of his kin to Jon.
"What about everyone else ? All the people who think they know what's good ?" - "They don't get to choose." THERE, that look from Jon at 2:53 is when he realises what Tyron just told him in his cell is true, that Daenarys will never, ever stop from taking down people that won't comply 200% to her way of seeing things, because she feels like a divinity with almighty knowledge of what is good or not.
In my opinion she was still really broken over the loss of Rhaegal, Jorah and Missandei. Jon didn't have to kill her off just like that. He would've been able to convince her, once she calmed down. We've seen her pissed before, yet still listening to advice once she calmed herself. In my opinion she really needed Jorah in this scene. He was with her from the very beginning, saw her dragons hatch, grow and die. Even Drogon mourned him in some way, which shows that he did grow to respect him over all those years. I've never seen Dany crying over someone as much as she cried over Jorah. She NEEDED someone by her side. Starks literally managed to keep everyone alive, why Dany wasn't able to keep Jorah or Missandei? It's literally like they just wanted to make her suffer another loss after another over those last few episodes. I'm still pissed cause i do believe that she would've gotten convinced, if given more time.
The thing that gets me is Daenerys didn't want the throne, she wanted love and family, and we can see that when instead of going to sit on the Iron Throne which was supposed to have been her goal this entire time, she instead turns away from the throne and goes to stand with Jon. Her happiest moments were the moments she was surrounded by true family and love, she just never realized it because of the trauma from her childhood and brother made her yearn for some far off materialistic goal instead of the emotionally filling one she had taken from her 💔
you dany lovers are actually crazy… I used to like her too until she decided that burning people alive for not bending the knee was necessary, she burned little children and innocent people because “cercei used their innocence as a shield” she definitely had a rough life and trauma but to say that her only thought was family and love is wrong, Jon was the true heir and was built up to be the prophecy of the song of fire and ice, part stark and targaryen and when he told her he was Aegon Targaryen her first thought was about the throne… she was a tyrant hungry for a promise of sitting on a throne. ofc the writers could’ve made a better ending and the last two seasons are bad imo but with what we got and how the story ended shows she’s a horrible person. Jon deserved to be king because he DIDNT want it. everyone wanted it, but not Jon. Hence why Jon would’ve been the perfect king, one who cared about what was right and just, not one who cared about the politics and death to get and keep that power.
2:49- The sheer coldness in Dany's eyes when she says "they don't get to choose..."......I am pretty sure this is what was the final straw for Jon. He could see that she was gone...
Despite the rushedness of this whole season, there are some great lines here. Some great messages. Such as Daenerys being so sure and arrogant of her of own vision for the world, but Jon always being humble and uncertain (knowing nothing). It's a great demonstration of that fact of life that a truly wise and good person is unsure and will admit when they don't know.
@@jhedatitan4228I can blame her. Since season 3 everyone in her council warned her to show mercy. She chose not to, and that eventually lead to her alienation. To be an all powerful queen you have to let go of your feelings in the moment, listen to hard truths and do what’s best for the people that follow you. True leaders understand that.
@@jhedatitan4228They weren't plotting against her, she wasn't the rightful heir, John was but she couldn't even acknowledge that fact, all she wanted was the throne.
Honestly this scene was a diamond in the very rough that was season 8 for me... Love how Dany basically convinced herself so much that what she was doing was right, but in reality (at least imo) she had become a hypocrite. She wanted to free people of their chains of slavery, yet says "They don't get to choose." As in she'd force them...like slaves to comply. She believes what she's doing is right and just like her enemies before her believed. The Lannisters kill her people, its a major offense. Dany burns and executes thousands of people and it's just. She truly wasn't any better than the ones she vowed to fight...
You have your best friends head chopped off in front of you and her husband after long years of trials and tribulations to overcome all the odds and ppl still disrespect you even tho you’re the rightful queen other than your brother who doesn’t want to be king… then tell me how you react Dany did what a person that’s been thru pain and suffering and understands that this is war anything goes. She did right
1)family history of madness , her brother and farther went mad 2)in season 2 she threatens to burn a city to the ground if they don't let her in. The exact thing she does in season 8. 3)her advisors gave her bad advice and betrayed her leading to her becoming more isolated and dealing with things her way. 4) 2 out of 3 of her dragons which she considered her babies died largely due to poor advice. 5) her best friend died in front of her maybe the only person she could still fully trust. Honestly it was the best plot point of season 8 , the writing as a whole was trash but Danny going mad had a good amount of buildup compared to everything else.
@@epic1053long-standing anger towards kings landing for the treatment of Targaryens. (This will actually be illuminated by the end of House of the Dragon series.) Dany was sick of the diplomatic route, as well as being misled or given bad advice by advisors. Cersei executing Missandei pushed her over that edge. By the time Dany had the throne she was simply tired of negotiating and was willing to torch any dissenters to move forward with her new world. She was at least willing to listen to Jon’s input, but he foresaw them clashing over the sovereignty of the north and more democratic leaning areas of Westeros. He got ahead of the issue.
Daenerys also had the experience of giving people mercy and all it did was cause people to betray her and try to take power from her or destroy her...that was never quite explained.
Jon was desperate for Dany to give him any reason to confirm his denial over what had to be done. A hero will kill you to save the world. A villain would destroy the world to save you.
I don't even hate this, the conclusion, I just hate the journey to get there, this makes sense, danny was already slowly slipping in and out of madness, and had a fondness for burning things. show desperately needed 2 more seasons
"They don't get to chose". Sealed her fate. 2:54 - He is haunted and defeated by that remark. No expression. He's already lost her. Probably Johns biggest deal breaker.
Bitter sweet. The villains are defeated he’s exiled but gets to life out the rest of his live with the free folk; people whom he respected and understood better than any “southern”. Obvs we all wanted him to be king but this is GoT after all. It’s very reminiscent of Frodo leaving the Shire to sail away to the Grey Havens (literally what inspired GRRM to write this ending tho he has yet to officially publish his last two books. But this scene is totally written down in a journal of his somewhere)
Kit Harington cried his eyes out when he read that he had to kill Emelia. (Was in a docu) That was the highlight for me as a game of thrones lover. So real 💙.
Agreed it sucks but she was insane and needed to be stopped. Dany is an awesome character and overall mostly well written. Her descent into madness I think was a bit rushed but for the most part it’s been foreshadowed since the first episode
Because she’s a narcissist and wanted to see the throne for herself because everyone else is beneath her. Also Jon is her right hand man/lover/family so he gets security clearance.
I agree eventually she’d have turned on him. He was a threat to her rule. But I think this was her last bargaining chip as much as it was his last bargaining chip. She tried using his love for her to manipulate him into disgracing his honor.
This scene is crap. From a realistic perspective, Grey worm would have never left Daenerys's side and given Jon the opportunity to... I can't even say it.
In the end, he did the same as Jaime Lannister with the Mad King - only he stabbed her in the belly instead of the back! ... Who was more honorable after all?!
She defended killing children in what world besides this clown world does that go with her character go back and watch threw the whole show and see how she deals with the murder of children
She locked up her dragons she killed the masters it hurt her to see children in pain or suffering this chick who ever she is..she is not the mother of dragons....
She would have given the soldiers a chance to bend the knee there is not one time her going evil was shown threw in the show not to this extent anyone who likes this total flip to her personality is a fool
How is this goofy ? Because she dies and becomes like her father ? Come on this is Game of Thrones, the show that will kill or do things that people wouldn't think of. They teased her ascension since Season 1 and everything went well for her, you really thought she would sit on the throne ? If so, I think you didn't understand the show
@@EminencePhront Nah, S8 haters are the cringe ones. What the hell are you still doing here 4 years after the show aired if you hate S8 so much? I don't see myself commenting on Matrix Revolutions or the later seasons of Big Bang Theory.
Recently binged the show and season six was the last good season If only she'd never met Jon at all or at least never hooked up with him, they had zero chemistry What a queen of all the kingdoms she'd made or I could see the north as independent and Daenerys having the rest Anyways I'll just pretend everything after season six didn't happen or things went differently
"they don't have to choose" This is where Jon realizes that he is facing a tyrannical, remorseful, divisive, slave-owning type of government What led Daenerys to this moment was not a dream of making the world better, but her desire for revenge for returning all the harm they caused her. While she conquered slaves, which was all she had left, many, including those commanded by her, called this justice, freedom. But time proved otherwise.
Was Jon (Aegon), literally the only perfectly balanced Targaryen? He was wise, just, intelligent, a great warrior, humble, kind. Had those maxxed goodness stats. Maybe all that Targaryen incest ultimately resulted in the perfect specimen.
Aegon the first almost hits the mark but he was also a colonizer and forced a nation to bend the knee. So yes at the end of the day Jon was the only reasonable/righteous Targaryen. He is the song of ice and fire after all.
that what all humans, today carrying, that,good and bad in,them since the day they we're, born we have choices, in life good path,or evil path your choice.
Even though they rushed this season, this scene was actually brilliant. Historically, we've seen this sort of thing play out multiple times from those in power. Rulers who believed they knew what was right and just. Rulers who believed in themselves and the story they wanted told. Rulers who seized all power with no one to answer too. This is what they meant by "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This happened every single time without fail, a person rises up through the ranks of either the current status quo o the revolution to seize power only to reach the top and eventually bring utter defeat, commit atrocities and genocide, or to be stabbed in the back by someone else with even more unchecked ambition. The Bolshevik Revolution under Lenin, the first chinese emperor Qin Shi Huangdi, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Napoleon Bonaparte, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Muammar Gaddafi, etc. The people who helped them, believed in them, and blindly trusted them are always burnt in the end. It's impossible for one person to rule all because it's impossible to know all. Even the smartest of intellectuals make the worst rulers. A career politician, academic, general, doctor or even corporate executive doesn't know the first thing about you or how you do your job to keep society functioning. Yet they always believe they do and know it better than you. The first time in history when a new power was created and the ones who brought it forth denied absolute authority was after the American Revolution. They knew through tedious study what happened every time and decided to build a form of power that was constantly put in check by other branches and the people that permitted it. Ironically, they laid the foundations of what was to become the most powerful civilization ever known in our species history. A nation that can now destroy the world several times over, deploy military force anywhere in the world at a moments noticed, create art, culture, music, technology the world consumes feverishly. People need to be reminded of this, not to put their faith and trust to those in power but into themselves as individuals.
@@brandonboi9465 I don't believe in happy endings, but I do believe in endings that make sense. The minute the show runners decided to do away with Young Griff should have been an indicator of how this would turn out. Blending story lines was a bad move. Rushing through Season 8 was a bad move. Fucking up the entire Dornish plotline was a really bad move. But oh well, if you liked it that's your business.
If they would have build it up, this could have worked. The books can go this exact direction and it will work, Danys last chapter in Dance makes complete sense and hints at it. Or D&D just went with "We just make Danys last chapter in Dance the finale of the whole thing" Which is arguably dumb ... which makes it very likely this isnt the true ending cause George wouldnt do something the same way D&D did it ... Is this the reason that Winds is delayed by 10years? Cause he has to make it different than the show? Honestly, I dig that, I wouldnt want to be compared to D&D by doing what they did either
Ive also read GG said he accidentally killed off a major character in the books that he was going to close with. So prob has to figure it all out again. I hope this ends before him tho lol or ill be goin danny too lol
Jon was never meant to be King. He died one year after being Lord Commander. Ned Stark died one year after dealing with Westerosi politics. Jon didn't have a dragon. He was more white than a gray character in the show. He was more a Stark than a Targaryen, and he would have died one year after doing the same things in King's Landing. Daenerys spend eight seasons learning how to be Queen and survived. Jon didn't need to be made into will he won't he be King arc while he denies it all the time. After he died in season six, he lost whatever character he had left. The end for all of them was horrible.
anakin was good until turn to the darkside,before,he call himself, lord vader.luke,acting father, before turn to the darkside,of the emperor, by his mastet.
Jon Snow gave Danny many chances to see the error of her ways. With each word, she had broken all 20. And with the strike of a blade and a love filled kiss, like how King Robert had said long ago, so ends the reign of Tyranny that was Daenarys.
Damn those fan made "what if" alternate versions of the show ending getting out of hand, the make up looks spot on wtf, its like real actors playing the roles.
Hints within the show that Danny was going to be the mad queen. (1) Watching her brother die without any remorse and simply saying he wasn't a true dragon. (2) Threatening to burn Qarth because she wasn't allowed entry. (3) Everyone emphasizing that she shouldn't end up like her father. (4) Her beginning John not to tell anyone his true identity because he had a claim to the throne. (5) Burning Varys because he realized who she was. (6) The red woman in Merees telling talking about her purifying non believers by the thousands. (7) Her, being jealousy because the Northern people and wildlings showed John more love than her. (8) Her consistently complaining about not being loved despite being in a new land. (9) Her, ordering the beheading of a former slave boy who killed the master despite people begging her not to. (10) Her feeling uncomfortable because John had taken a knife to the heart and lived.
People say john could have been able to control her worse impulses because she loved him, I say maybe at the beginning of the season but by the end of the last season, she was far gone
