Jonathan Pageau - The Occult, The Devil & Rock n' Roll | The Winston Marshall Show  

I agree although one other thing to keep in mind is the more you listen to him the easier it can be to understand so it might be something in you as well

@@I4MWH014M Good point

Agreed, on both counts! And I also agree with the point made in the first reply. So there! Cheers, all!

Yes, but he "reads" Winston, and interrupts because he knows what he's attempting to ask, and I don't know what Winston is thinking, so I wish he wouldn't interrupt him so much.

@@I4MWH014M First of all, occultism is self-empowerment(not power over but power within). Second, Hollywood stars don't count as they are not members of the Dragon Rouge(humanistic philosophy where man becomes a God with the Left Hand Path) led by Thomas Karlsson. This group has an academic approach where one has to research and put effort and also have knowledge of dead obscure languages. Thomas Karlsson is a Swedish academic who has PH D in religious studies and ancient languages and also believes that one has work for magic, not just say God is within you with instant discovery like most occult groups or New Age. Karlsson's lyrics were formerly used by Christofer Johnsson(also a member of Dragon Rouge) who is a founder of the Swedish symphonic metal band Therion

When he pointed out that Mardi Gras is a Christian festival, he never pointed out that many Christian Festivals have Pagan roots. People have been arguing for centuries over whether pagan is inherently evil. He doesn't even touch on that

@@a.alistair9087thats a huge topic which he touches on extensively on his own channel across tens of hours.

True. If you don't believe it just look at Hollywood. Is there any other industry where so many perverted, evil people practice their trade? I can't think of anything close.

@viramandybur Politicians are the scum of the Earth, not entertainers.

​@@johnpolitis7929 They're one of the same.

@@jamstagerable and so are capitalist pigs with stupid copyright law.

@@johnpolitis7929 politics is no different than Hollywood movies in the USA now…they do not do anything for the people they are to represent…it is been entirely taken over by political friends and rich donors…it is fake…

I came to the same conclusion about "The Devil's Advocate" especially at end when Al Pacino comes off the hinges goes into his rant. If you listen closely, you actually hear the devil convict himself. .....a cautionary tale.

Your take is accurate. This conversation is insanely ungodly and deceptive.

Guess who else was there behind all those events 👃

I read sympathy is about how the devil is blamed for the sins of man.

You are right totally!

I visited Cologne years ago and we arrived on Shrove Tuesday. We saw some of it in the street and more on the telly when we were back in the hotel room. The next day was so quiet it seemed surreal. That has stuck with me, and every time I hear Jonathan talk about Carnival it always comes to mind. You're bang on about Madonna. Funny how she chose that stage name to shock and troll people when you compare her to then and now. Just shows symbolism happens and you'd better be careful what you're playing with!

Yes! This is a great conversation and looking forward to what the other channels make of it

I haven't watched Peterson in a few years..since finding Pageau. I always wonder if anyone else is similar.

Aka Jim Morrison 😂

Hmm. I wonder if Joe would vibe with him. Its a conversation that could go either way. Jonathan could blow his mind entirely or they might just be speaking different languages. I’d be curious to see it if only to give Jonathan the exposure he deserves

The wests victory in ww2? The Soviet union almost single-handedly defeated Nazigermany. But i get what you mean, the cultural win of the so called west. Rise of capitalism and so on. Or do you really think that the West was winning the war on Germany? Then it proves my point. In Reality the Soviet union won, but on the culture front the west succeeded so that this Narrative could evolve.

COVID was our end of an era. So many things that were temporary replacements for the real thing became the new default. e.g. psychologists seeing patients online, restaurants not printing out their menus because you can see them on your phone, conversations that could reasonably be had in person being held online, etc.

Right on 🎉

And the MARXIST regime voted for it in November 6 2008 HOPEY 🌄 CHANGY 🕋🪰

Read the fourth turning...great book

The Ubermensche.

If you are a Christian, then this notion is entirely ungodly. This entire thing of "flirting with the devil" is what has slowly led to what we see now. Our society is more godless now than it ever has been. Things are coming to a close just as the Bible tells us regarding the last days. Funny how this guy talks about things being backwards or upsidedown during this short period of carnival, as that is directly mentioned by Paul in the Bible as a sign of the times. Letting go on purpose in order to reboot back to the norm is simply a case of willful sin. It sets the stage to continually slip further into sin and to feel no need to repent. To do this is to slowly normalize sinful behavior. It is literally a road to hell, a road which is easy and wide. This interview is nonsense that misses the entire point of living one's life for God. There is no hope for resurrection through this trash. People who indulge this is a big part of the problem with Christianity today...it seeks to make excuses for and to excuse sin. And Kanye, he us not a real Christian. You will know people by their fruit. He uses it for his own advantage and his understanding of it is very skewed. Just read your Bible. Then the truth comes out with him right back into Balenciaga and all of that crap. Exploring extremes is a sin, not Biblical at all. Not once does God support such actions. Everything being discussed here is paganism. Either you believe your Bible or you don't. There is no in between. If it is not of God, it is of the devil. If you get mad and attack me over my saying this, then just keep in mind that the Bible says that the truth is like heaping burning coals on the sinners head.

Winston was in the business for a long time.

Literally read this passage 30 minutes before reading your comment. Weird.

@@alexandercharette5282 Let‘s call it a serendipitous coincidence, shall we? 😃 Do you follow Jonathan?

That is exactly how he means it. He's used your exact Dante example to explain this concept in other interviews.

@@bottomtext7700 I‘ll have to check those out, if you could point me towards those interviews. I know he was reading TDC a while back…

"Brazil is the county of the future" is what we say.

@@thiagonunes4294 I certainly hope not.

@@conantheseptuagenarian3824 we can only pray, but the world is becoming and more a clown world.

It's because he's an Orthodox Christian. The legislative angle usually comes from Protestants. Christianity is about repentance, not moralism.

pageau has talked often about how christian pop art is terrible not that it has to be but bc of how difficult it is

I'm in the same boat. We can't shy away from darkness, because we are children of winter, and our world is dark --- to pretend otherwise comes off as corny, it does not engage people because it's not true. What we can show, and what can be quite powerful, is how the darkness turns to light. When you are in the swamp you need to watch your footing, but sometimes you will catch reflections of the stars when the conditions are right.

I recall his grandmother used the horns to repell not the devil, but the evil eye. Functionally identical regardless.

Dude, you've been gone too long in the midnight sea. 😂

He has spoken about it before with Christopher Ruocchio

​@@rcordinerWhat's becoming of him?

We'll know for the first time, if we're evil or divine. - Dio

UPDATE: Winston's voice gets quiet towards the end. Volume was almost maxxed out in the car.

Stopped listening to music altogether? That would be tough for me. I workout everyday and listen to 70s-80s hard/classic/soft rock to keep me motivated and focused on lifting. It keeps me from thinking about pain and fatigue. I tried listening to podcasts and audio books, but it just didn't work. I feel I can compartmentalize the music with working out and not let it pull me down when I'm not in the gym. I know that some of the music I listen to contains lyrics that are promoting the dark side, and if I'm aware of it, I can rebuke it. At least, that's my hope.

@DetVen it is...trust me I give in a little and it feels good but I need a healthier outlet

@miked6426 I admire it! God Bless!

​@@DetVenI, too am into fitness, but listening to music every day is inspiring and I love it. I won't stop listening, despite my beliefs in God. Try classical music if you haven't already. As a lover of ballet, it's so profoundly beautiful it might be helpful. Tbh, if I need to go all out on cardio, rave music from the early 90s is hard to beat, lol!!!

"Dance magic dance, jump magic jump."

its old world thinking. in the old world ppl understood sacrifice. appeasing demons by leaving food outside your home. thats what he means by gargoyles. orthodox is old world thinking. the idea is basically if you turn your head on it, it just comes out in weird ways. i guess it's humility and acceptance. i guess its not like puritanism. I tend to believe that because i think that's why there's a stereotype of American Christians being awful people. They're basically unable to deal with their constant need to be pure so they end up being jerks to everyone. kinda like you're being

And human sacrifices were make to Baal.

no it doesn't as they often used crowly as a symbol not a model. Also Bowie himself, who was into crowly when stoned out his bonce, said quite clearly, that crowly and those kind of things are childish, ego-driven endeavours, that one grows out of

​@@malcomgladstone Bowie was blowing smoke. You may want to see who bought Crowley's house.... I don't think he "outgrew it."

Yes he did from what I heard . I mean in terms of the way he was into it, in the 70s and early 80s- when he was on coke /H and had sex with anything with a heart beat .@@southerngal9374 He was curious and big probably kept reading up , but he wasn't practising ;ike he used to

BY the way it was Jimmy Page who owned Crowley Gaff not Bowie, as far as i am aware @@southerngal9374

What do you actually know about Crowley?

They do that on loads of music videos on Utube.

and that's why new ageism and polytheistic religions are so popular, because they explicitly talk about subjects that were implicit back then

I too was noticing Winston’s difficulties adapting to this way of thinking, in fact just as I read your comment! He’s doing admirably, but I realized how fortunate (in some ways) I am, having been “blessed” with a certain neurological predisposition which makes these subjects not only appealing to me, but it’s like my life’s blood. As such, I’ve been actively studying archetypes, philosophy and symbolism, as well as ufos, sacred geometry and lost civilizations for decades. Like I said, it’s in my blood. So I guess I take it for granted, and I actually enjoyed watching Winston “grapple” with shifting his paradigm. Cheers!

He's not speaking about the morality of any of this. He's simply pointing out the pattern that is playing out. Repentance is the only way to change what is happening.

Because he's talking about ontological, not social, transgression. The weird paradox of the transgressive becoming the norm is his whole point - and makes for a deeper conversation than "reading books is the new punk", or whatever.

I think transgressional in the traditional sense.

Jonathan basicallly comes across as a Gnostic to me. It appears as if he worships symbols and his own mind over and above the gospel. He's overly concerned with trying to sound and appear smart and give an explanation for everything.

​@@josephpchajek2685you are not understanding him then

Jonathan is very familiar with this phenomenon, and he's one of the more interesting voices exploring it

Not everyone is the same, but a lot of people do love these things, but it is usually because their passions are out of control and they lack a strong self-identity and thus fall to the whims of the times

Or the Catholic church

@@ashleywebb2736 The Freemasons denied The Catholic Church.

@ashleywalker1411 I was referring to the ritual chanting that they have in common

@@ashleywalker1411 yet it is said even by some Catholic priests that the Freemasons have some members in The Vatican today…more than a few.

Living sacrifice, Memphis may fire, zao, oh sleeper, project 86, pod, all great Christian metal bands😊

@@josflorida5346 thanks for the recommendations 😀

@@sillygoose4472 any time!

​​@@josflorida5346My first metal concert was Living Sacrifice THP and Project 86 DBL so I think 2000. It was awesome. I prefer Inhabit and Nonexistent for LS but Reborn and THP are great metalcore albums IMO. Zao is one of the first metalcore bands. I had all their albums up to TFIWKUH at one point. 90s metalcore was different than the cookie cutter scene in the mid 00s as bands had their own distinct sound and had more of a metal than a core edge. Regretfully I've never seen Zao live. I did get to see Stretch Armstrong in 04 with SOIA, Madball, Agnostic Front and Hatebreed. I'd say that was in the top 3 shows of my life. I also saw P.O.D. in 06 during the Warriors EP 2 tour with my sister. August Burns Red makes consistently great metalcore. Solid State Records had lots of hits. I had a large collection of their releases but gave most of them away to a friend at one point. Death metal is much better than metalcore. I'd recommend checking out Mortification, Crimson Thorn, Soul Embraced, Extol, Becoming the Archetype, Pantokrator, Tourniquet, HolyName and Hesychast. While not a Christian band, Job For a Cowboy has two excellent death metal albums with Genesis and Ruination with themes you would find in much of Christian metal. I'd also recommend the entire catalogue of the legendary Death fronted by Chuck Schuldiner. Not one mediocre song or album. All classics.

​@@sillygoose4472Mustaine is in my top 5 metal guitarists list and Creeping Death is one of my favorite Metallica tracks. RTL is my favorite album of theirs.

Well they were funded by the See Eye Aye.

Metal is also hugely popular in Latin America, where the paganism is recent in memory

No, metal music betrays itself in it's own naming. It's metal, iron maiden, black/death/speed/power metal. There is no silver or gold metal (is there even bronze metal?). Metal music necessarily belongs to the lower order, it even identifies itself as such. The lower order is the earth or, more often, the daemonic realm.

Judeo-Christian is an oxymoron.

​@@DavidRemingtonthank you

@@alvareo92 yeah, the Aztecs hoarding the Christos semen of the serpent. What exactly do you think they plan to do with that?

Do not conform to the world around you. Plain and simple instruction from the Lord. Why do you think your idea which goes against His unstruction is a good idea? God's light will draw people, not your compromising your Christian values to sound more in line with the world. Give God some credit and stop trying to think you know better.

@@jamiebraswell5520 Jaime, I assume you would leave your comment/judgement after listening to some of my songs? On second thought, probably not… blessings, Jim

i think the issue is dividing it in that way. whether something is christian or not is a false concept. Like what pageau is saying about how modern pop music in a way is a devil's advocate, or advocating for Christianity by showing the world what the world is. You can never really escape the truth, you can't fail at it. So there's nothing to even attempt or try. I guess you would fail by approaching it with this division in mind, which is automatically against truth of reality. What is even a non-christian audience if you're christian? Christianity is quite human, it's about humanity. Any work of art can be considered Christian in some way. You can't escape truth. And I've seen it in how transgressive artists will often unconsciously contain truth in their art. It's like you can't escape it. the story of jesus is in everything. Pageau has also talked about this. Many movies and stories are basically just a retelling of jesus in some way. I think that's why Pageau mentions that Christian art is usually bad. Because they don't approach art in the correct way. At least for non sacred art. If you're making art that isn't sacred, then there's no point trying to pretend it is. It isn't to begin with. Its a folk song, or a story

@@MorrisAlanisette I tried to say that I am a Christian who is not writing contemporary Christian music. Yet my faith and world view are expressed in my songs, but usually not explicitly. Many who follow and like my music are the “beautiful strugglers” outside of the Christian faith

I saw The Chariot live with POD and Pillar 18 years ago and the singer slammed his mic down bc he didn't get a response from the crowd lmao.

@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy sweet! I am jealous, I heard their live shows were epic!

@@maxwellbliss Pillar was better. Solid sound and high energy. I honestly wasn't impressed with The Chariot and neither was the crowd. POD of course stole the show. Warriors EP 2 tour in 06. I don't remember the entire set list but they played lots of hits. I took my sister and she got to crowd surf for the first time.

Nice! Those days were a lot of fun!@@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Yea I thought that was a touch to much, he’s kind of an arrogant, belligerent, whiny nitwit. But a demon, that’s a bit hyperbolic.

He lives in a country that does

THe whole modern era has been of not integrating your sensitive side 'cause you're too busy with work all the time

He sure did 'grow'..

@@richardvanderdraay3800 You're right, he was human and had his flaws. How's your father?

Thanks for the link. Somehow I had missed this till now.

@@JamesGeere de nada. Hope it is somewhat insightful

Adam *was* androgenous. It's only possible to believe Adam was male if you read Genesis in a language other than Hebrew. The Hebrew makes it clear. Unfortunately the church has misunderstood the scriptures and has been quite determined to perpetuate this error. The Jews are under no such illusion.

Nonsense, sir. It's the ancient Mediterranean cuckold/horns gesture.

this is how hedonism works --- you need delve lower and lower to get the same hit besides the fact that Iron Maiden is a way better band (and that they were prominent higher up on the "slippery slope"), I don't think there's a qualitative difference in how they push the boundaries of moral order

no one asked you

@@jacobnormore1599 Ok.