Tl;dr on this entire discourse: Pros of Tier 0/0.5 formats: - Easier to prepare and tech for - Higher skill expression - Lower skill ceiling since there is a limited card pool in play Cons: - Games are borderline unwatchable - Card market is insane, to a point where budget players are priced out of the game entirely - The game essentially becomes "play this $600 deck or don't bother competing" Pros of diverse formats: - More deck and tech options across the board for both budget and high end players - Higher creative expression and playstyle variations - Lower skill floor, but a much higher skill ceiling - The sheer and utter excitement from watching Jeff Leonard top with Exodia Cons: - Losing to variance - Much harder to prepare for considering the different techs and matchup spreads - Pak complains on twitter Frankly, I know which one I prefer, and it's not Tear format. Which way, Yugioh Player?
Funnily I think you’ve hit in the divide exactly with your last point. Casual and semi-competitive players heard video after video trying to tell them tear is good actually while the deck was boring or frustrating the pants off them and now once we are finally free from being powergated out of winning this format we are told it’s bad when that is far from what many are feeling. Both sides have fair points. And I don’t think any of Pak, Jesse or Josh are actually trying to say tier 0 is the best format here, but I still prefer this over either Tear or Kash formats personally.
No, i just would not insert additional zelda background music, when there already is music in jesses Video, now you hear 2 different music tracks at the same time, wich sounds terrible@@MOORE4U2
28:15 exactly my point. Nice to see josh admit it as well. Sure diverse wont be prefered by super competitive players who playtest a lot and always enter tournament to win, but most playerbase like it, and its better for YGO in general. So it is what it is, pros just need to adapt as well as they can and keep enter YCS. Its not like pros will quit coz diverse format or anything, they will still playing. Sure few ppl like pak might not play but most other will. Ycs will still have lot players entering. And maybe come up with insane tech to actually beat the diverse format. Thats part that make YGO exciting.
I think a part of the issue is tech cards/ non-engine that feel so variable impact from deck to decks ton of cards that are like 10/10 into some decks and 0/10 into others. Like so many cards are just dead into Purrely and then stuff like d barrier or Kaijus or Herald of the Abyss just beat it into the sun, while being dead or bad into others it feels really bad you can't find like an options that's like 6-7/10 into almost everything.
thats what was so nice about kash format. we all played books and ash and imperm and fenrir because they were all Pretty Good into everything, no tech option in my deck felt like dogshit against anything.
I think this needs to be said: as a card game, no amount of preparation or work will guarantee anyone doing well due to the luck-based nature of card games. You could make risky decisions and have it pay off to be seen as the greatest Yugioh Genius for that time or have it blow up in your face like an overstuffed heated weiner. All in all, there is always a risk factor to consider due to circumstances out of your control. I'd say that the risk factor is higher the more diverse the format, but even in less diverse formats there will always be feel-bad moments resulting from bad luck. It's unavoidable
I’d disagree. There’s a reason why you always see the same names topping at these tournaments. Yes there’s luck in regard to simply having to draw cards out of a pile. But there’s a big difference between how consistent your deck is and, literally, playing rock-paper-scissors with which deck you could possibly get seated against because that one random deck, or card, that happens to completely counter yours is viable in the format.
@@EvilShadex101 The reason you see the same names top often because they have the time to prep and go to all the events. Not to say they're aren't good, but there's a small group of people who take it so seriously, spend the money (or are sponsored) and travel to every YCS. Has nothing to do with what the format is or not, as Josh as eluded to before when he said "pro" players are going to play regardless
@@LowFlyingHawk are you saying someone who puts in the time, effort, and money shouldn’t be able to consistently top? This is true for, basically, everything. I don’t see the reason for pointing this out. My argument is that; the fact that you always see the same names is because the game isn’t as luck based as OP is trying to present it. Otherwise the amount of effort you put in wouldn’t, consistently, matter.
A Player's true skill is revealed from weighing the odds on risk and reward and skillfully navigating the odds. If all you know are the top three competing meta decks and you win using one of them, you're not a good Yugioh player, you're a lucky Yugioh player who understands a very narrow range of decks. If you can win in a diverse format, you're actually a good Yugioh player because that requires far more skill than just knowing how to beat three decks you're going to face 92% of the time.
@@GuessWhatHappened1 I feel that if you get Thrusted for the out, it feels significantly less awful than just getting smashed by them hard drawing the one-of. You get one monster effect activation before they can add it to their grip. Your opponent now has to sacrifice one of their resources and it creates an interesting dynamic. If you're the turn player, what are you going to try to give up to enable access to your Thrust? Do you blindly add Herald when they have set backrow, which could be a Purelyly to deny the Herald? Do you instead add extension to play through their board rather than search for an immediate out? If you're not the turn player, do you try to make your monster's effect as impactful as possible? If you have one sleepy memory under your Noir, is the risk of Thrust worth one draw? Will you hold it because they are playing as though they have Thrust and want to Tactics for a +2 since they already have an out in hand? If you have Herald in hand, you usually just send it since it's not quick. If they have a counter, they have a counter. If they don't, you'll probably win. It's just not that interesting and it feels pretty sacky because there is very little involvement of in game decision making with your opponent.
@@bagorngo I really dont like the talk of how cards make you feel. It sounds too emotional. We dont even know each others ratios. But regardless thrust is often live on purley the goal is to get 5 under noir that comes with risk.
I don’t get the complaint for the herald of the abyss hard draw. Everyone who tested for the event is going to have out(s) for purrely. Purrely doesn’t have a lp card for time and they play long games, so time will always be an issue. That’s a preparation issue IMO
Pak was being a cry baby. Thats the only reason why most people are saying this. Not to mention dude wanted a sloved format before it offically started 😂
In fact you don't need any non-engine card to play around Herald of the Abyss. Purrely can just save 1 spell to summon the little black cat when opponent use Herald abyss.
Not many people like towers decks in diverse formats. It’s actually the same reason as mystic mine: Mystic Mine required main deck backrow removal, and that’s okay, but sucks against literally every other matchup if most decks are monster spam and the backrow removal does minimal against them. It’s a 50/50 on if you’re maining enough backrow removal to handle the situation. Same thing with purrely. You have to have herald of the abyss, kaijus, etc. or you’re gonna have an extremely hard time. Those cards are just not good in other matchups. If it was a purrely t0 format, awesome, people will main kaijus. Since it’s not though, it’s pure luck whether you face purrely or the other top decks. And if you draw those other cards like herald of the abyss etc. against non-purrely decks you’re going to have a bad time. So you put those in the side deck and have to accept your game 1 against purrely has to be extremely scuffed to have a chance in a non-purrely dominated format. Pure tournament luck of your opponents deck puts you in a 50/50. Not even in game luck which kinda sucks.
Ok guys, but with all due respect. How are you not prepared for diversity at this point. It’s a little ridiculous to not have a well thought out plan when entering a tournament.
On top of the fact that any average player should expect a lot of diversity after a new set gets released, especially in this particular case where the previous dominant decks (Tears and Kashtira) just invalidated a lot of otherwise viable decks.
With all due respect how are you not prepared for tier 0? It's literally 1 strategy to prepare for. It's a little ridiculous to not have a half competent plan when entering a tournament.
Yugioh needs Josh as our voice for fixing the different opinions' attacking, like Jeeshhh, let them talk and respectfully disagree.. We're not a bunch of Kaiba irl
Couldn't agree more, this community, at least online, is not very good at identifying the difference between opinions and facts. Plus the toxic stuff like calling people "crybabies", "meta sheep", etc... That stuff is just not productive for this discussion.
Nah, some people need to be told that they are acting childish AF. PAK was acting like a baby because he 'drowned in pools' and complains about the format where, if he was Rando Mc No name, he would get told to stop crying and try their best next time.
YGO has so many different ways to play through all the different archetypes and gimmicks that exist. This leads to people having different perspectives on how the game should be (omni negate boards, combo solitaire). I honestly blame it on Konami for designing so many different types of cards/decks that play in different ways and a lot of them requiring different counterplays or specific cards to stop. Sure, it leads to some really cool and fun interaction, but they have also opened the path to some degenerate shit that should never exist in a card game (my opinion), which has made balancing and sometimes trying to find an out impossible - you just get screwed by a bad hand or match up you were dealt. Because of these factors, YGO is just one of those games I can see competitively. If you want to be competitive in a fair, skill based environment, there are other games out there.
I think a major factor that we dont consider is the knowledge needed for each format. In Edisons the cards are simple to understand and read, the combos are very linear, minimal actions committed. Today, even control decks are sudo combo decks. So the amount of understanding of each deck, combos, were to handtrap, whats their potential endboard etc comes into play. How many people dont know the text or combos for like Rikka, Tear, Mannadium. This why people also hate rogue decks, because it means a matchup were you dont know your opponnets strategy, youll gonna spend half the game reading the cards and have no clue how to play vs them.
Feeling that if you put in enough work you get to win is feeling entitled to win. Part of this game is sometimes you just draw bad, if you don't like variance in games than card games aren't for you, go play chess.
Last nats was “diverse” but they did all the same thing. Every deck locked you out of the game and a lot of those decks literally just did scythe - baronne with back row. You can’t play unless you played floo which did the same thing via barrier statue.
@@dai-belizariusz3087 It was beyond just punk lmao. branded definately played that way, You just scythe lock with a trap card instead. It was the same shit different flavor. Swordsoul drew a bunch of cards and put rivaly up.
@@Sparda51Either you realize but didn't point it out of you simply didn't understand what you said. They all did what? Floodgates, they all played floodgates.
I usually don't mind it, but the background music is so distracting in this video. It's literally 3 sources of audio playing at the same time, unwatchable for me 😔
It's usually the same in every reaction video, but Jesse's sound was low and Josh turned his down to match it but I think the music wasn't tuned down to match that
Pretty good point about decks requiring to many bricks. It was why my number one enemy when I was playing Branded wasn’t Ash, it was polymerisation, Tragedy, Ad Lib, Dark Magician and all the other bloody bricks you can put in that deck 😂
Pak being pissed he didn't win the entire championship, despite winning multiple others and obvious tops, gives off the same vibes as Koreans crying because they lost to EU/NA in League. Just funny to look at.
Being able to solve a diverse format takes a completely different skillset than being able to win a solved format. I 100% get what Josh is saying here, but putting in a lot of work to prepare for the tournament is only part of what a diverse format requires. Obviously, I don't know specifically what other people are doing to prepare, but if they're preparing in the same way that they would for a solved format, then it doesn't really matter how much they do.
Agree, deck building for solved format means you are building a deck with an expected match up, also you can make a meta calls deck which no one prepare for…. But building a deck with diverse format, means there are a lot of factors need to be considered because so many varieties of match up, also konami as a company can attract many new players for playing yugioh, because there is no restriction for new players to follow tier zero deck in order to win, they just need to collect the board breaker staples and handtraps in order to compete.. collect board breaker and handtrap staples means another profit for company…
The number of competitive decks in a format has nothing to do with whether a format is solved or not. A solved format simply means the deck matchups are known and are unchanging.
Pro players just want it there way or no way. They want us to respect their opinion or see their point of view. But don’t wanna see our point of view. I’m tired of the same dudes topping. I will argue it takes more skill in a diverse format than tier zero. You basically have to know a lot about the game and each deck how they operate. Which makes it more fun seeing things you don’t normally see.
Then why Pak didnt choose the safest choice that is rescue ace? If he wasnt sure about the format in the first place? I feel like he made a very brave decision and it didnt pay off, even him didnt want to partecipate (he know before even the tournament start). I still think Pak got unlucky with the swiss round pairing and losing to 1 copy card in the deck it happen also in other format that someone lose bacause of it. He was unlucky with his brave decsion to go for purely. To me feel like he got so emotional to posting that on twitter because he was so mad about it, after that preparation and testing, this is understandable i think everyone would be mad about that. Its true prepare in a diverse format is hard but doesnt mean the format is bad because of it, just saying.
Great video Josh, I really appreciate the nuance take and the message of hearing and respecting others opinions on the game. I don’t play Yu-Gi-Oh anymore as I found it the most uninteresting, and worst in terms of consumer practices, of all the TCG I played, but I still like to keep up with it by watching yours and others videos. My two cents on this topic is that it really comes down to a fundamental issue of having little to no time to counter play an opponent as most of the interactions that matter in a game take place very early (first two turns usually), and how resilient newer archetypes are nowadays. I think this makes it frustrating to more high level players as they can’t be prepared for everything, some options are great against some decks and dead draw against others, and there is no backup strategy besides hopping for a brick from your opponent. On the other hand I see it as being fun for a more casual player to be able to enter a tournament and know that there is a good chance that the deck they enjoy won't be stopped in its tracks before it even starts most of the time.
Strange arguments when everyone’s kinda like… “I dont want to play awkward 1 ofs” and “ban prosperity” Prosperity literally circumvents this problem by itself.
15:10 thank you 😂😂 The herald of abyss could happen regardless of format. This why people saying pak a cry baby. 😂 talking about diversity can make a format bad, yet people were prepared, you just werent
How people can respect them when they throw the unrespectable behaviour first? . But personally, this format is better than the format where you can win if you have enough money to optimize your deck with strong dominant META decks, and better than the format where you can beat your opponent after you randomly draw the counter card that you add it your deck from your side deck 1s ago. And because there are a lot playable decks here, according to theory supply and demnd, the card's price might be lower in the future because the demand of the cards not centered to a certain deck or support around it.
That's the thing that frustrated me, Pak is throwing shade and when he actually gets pushback the community is suddenly toxic. Side note very based pfp 😭😭😭💢
X-2 cut thing is done in unofficial Pokemon tournaments before during pandemic which is mostly done Online. Some events back then were quite big, with hundreds of participants. Official Pokemon tournaments still used the regular swiss round system.
27:01 Could Rescue-Ace really ever be Tier 0? We have Thrust now and all backrow blowout cards are Normal Spells. Seems a bit like the Branded situation you elaborated on a while ago. (Still waiting for Branded's in-archetype way to handle backrow.)
This is an hour long video talking about how professional card game players don't like a balanced format cause they forgot the fundamentals of the card game they say they like playing. Preparing a deck and side deck to only counter 3 play styles should never have been considered "competitive builds". To compare to fighting games it's like pros miss the days of Akuma mirrors only in early SF (before he was banned or any other character was buffed) now they're complaining there's no way to prepare to fight the whole roster, which you should be capable of practicing since you spend the most time playing. You can't ever adapt to everything but your play style should be more flexible than "this only works against 3 relevant strategies" at an event of 100+ people
I think its a really cool, interesting perspective that tier zero formats and diverse formats can both be healthy and fun. I tend to prefer a diverse meta because my skillset in game bends better against them and I, like any honest person, tend to have more fun when I'm doing halfway decent, but I also actually had a lot of fun during D Ruler format back in the day and I loved watching games during Tear format. I dont think I had ever put a lot of thought into tier zero v. diversity as a poijt of discussion too much before this conversation. 😊
@@Ragnarok540 I do? haha I was refering to the thumbnail but am since aware the context in the actual video is completely different, that's what I get for taking the bait 😂😂
On behalten of the bad to draw one ofs i think tri made it really good by having a draw and return on ferrijet. It can salvage ur dead cards like Apex in the lyrilusc build.
Pro players just want it there way or no way. They want us to respect their opinion or see their point of view. But don’t wanna see our point of view. I’m tired of the same dudes topping. I will argue it takes more skill in a diverse format than tier zero. You basically have to know a lot about the game and each deck how they operate. Which makes it more fun seeing things you don’t normally see.
@@eleonarcrimson858 i mean, he's not wrong, MD qualifier is much harsher than TCG. BO 1 basically mean your deck need to cover a lot of variance which the pros pretty much complain about
@@jps_user20 Harsher in a different way. There's a lot more variance in MD because of the Bo1 nature so losses outside of the control of players happen more often, but every loss means significantly less than in tournaments. You can reach the top of DC with a 68% winrate. The actual difficulty from DC comes from the poopsocking nature of it. With TCG tournaments, a 68% winrate would mean that, on average, you lose 24% of your Bo3 matches. That generally puts you at making day 2, but not exceeding top 64/128. Each individual match is worth significantly more, so variance has a profoundly greater impact.
Maybe part of it is that audiences and players have much different perspectives on what makes a format good. Players want to see the best person win, so if everyone knows the meta it will boil down to skill and a little luck. But audiences love when it's diverse, when decks are coming out of nowhere or pulling upsets, so it's probably really hard for both sides of the tournaments to really agree on what is happening 🤣
Idk the game is just supposed to be fun lol you can’t prepare for everything so why worry about it? Just get one with the game, have fun, and just learn what’s out there.
Preparation half the battle. Being able to think ahead and plan out which decks are big threats for you is just as important as being able to think up combo lines on your feat. So yes, it is a skill.
Facts, so much diversity, and feel like u can win againts all decks if u build good deck and play properly. Game slow enough and powerlvl way lower than modern YGO that u can play quite many turns, trade 1 for 1 advantages, etc. No decks can lock u from playing turn 1 like modern YGO, and u feel like ure playing in every matches. Floodgates also less good there coz everyone running backrow removals and game slow enough to hope draw em.
Why do people seem to hate diverse formats but love EDISON, were its very diverse with multiple great decks. Is it because its attracting the casual playerbase rather than the LCS competitors?
Some nostalgia. Also part of why edison great is diversity in slower, less powerlvl YGO is great. Edison lets u play with lot different decks and most looks viable. Mosly due low power ceiling that no one doing toxic turn 1 combo board that u feel need specifically stop em or lose. Floodgates also exist but less a problem there cozzp everyone playing backrow removals and game slow enough to hope u draw it. As long u have ood deckbuilding and play good, feel like u can defeat any deck, at least most that are not ur bad matchup or something.
@@invertbrid still dosent explain why that diversity is celebrated while current meta is put down. We dont even have "degen" negate decks that are successful in the meta. If I had to bet its because Edison is for fun so people dont take it as serious, yet people still say it was an enjoyable format. The powerlevel of those decks are so low that there is little difference between the best and 5th best deck while today the difference between Rescue Ace and Sky striker for example are night and day. But I feel this could make people hate the format even more since it measn you have more strategies to account for. But maybe there were so few mechanics, card pool etc that all those strategies were so linear it didnt matter.
@invertbrid Honestly I think a major factor that we dont consider is the knowledge needed for each format. In Edisons the cards are simple to understand and read, the combos are very linear, minimal actions committed. Today, even control decks are sudo combo decks. So the amount of understanding of each deck, combos, were to handtrap, whats their potential endboard etc comes into play. How many people dont know the text or combos for like Rikka, Tear, Mannadium. This why people have rogue decks, because it means a matchup were you dont know your opponnets strategy, youll gonna spend half the game reading the cards and have no clue how to play vs them.
@@MannyB29 its more of speed and powerlvl of modern deck like i said. U can play good and dont feel like losing turn 1 most of the time if u play older formats like edison where game is slow and low powerlvl. Thus decks feel less oppresive, tho there is still some decks considered meta. The powerlvl is indeed low in a good way so every deck can have chance to win, if they draw good staples, and play good / making right call / predicting ur opp right. Game can last more than 5 turns lot of times, u can have lot back and forth interaction, grind game, trading 1 for 1, predicting opp next 2-3 turns, etc. Lot strategies involved yea, thats the beauty of older YGO also. But yes it being nostalgia factor and unsolved format also play part, u can still find new tech and decks now compared to back then.
@@MannyB29 well yea in general, lot players still like simpler YGO. Tho GOAT feels too linesr, slow and boring for some. Its also pretty solved. Thats why edison gained more popularity. More speed than GOAT, more diversity, and more playstyle.
I think one angle when talking about the issue with tear 0 formats is that it devalues all the other cards. When you have a best deck that anyone can play, it makes all the other cards and the excitement around new archetypes that can't compete just fall away. From a casual and collector side of it to your zero formats and even cards that are broken. Make the more common experience of people just picking up in cards and playing seem a lot less valuable. I think that if Konami wants to keep selling a lot of cards and keep getting new players interested, having a lot of new different diverse formats leads to more people finding a deck that they can like the style of like the art of and like the gameplay. I think that the way unchained rescues and even cash play all exemplify this.
@@ThunderflySc2 yup. It gives a new way to play that "stops your opponent from playing" and while it is frustrating, it's also really cool way to do it vs a backrow of floodgates.
The Problem with play in topcut is. Now you are not the guys thats " oh man im 34th soo close to top 32 im angy" but you are the guy thats "oh man im 31th instead of 30th so now i will have to play another round to even top, im angy"
@@BanditTools I never said it was. I'm saying complaining about variance is acceptable since it obviously CAN and HAS been at an extreme level. The argument is whether or not it is. But to say that people shouldn't complain about variance in card games at all is just braindead and your initial point lol
@@UnhappyPensFan Couldn't care about your argument here but complaining about variance in a game that is almost completely variance based sounds more braindead to me. It's like complaining why does water make things wet???
metas mit sovielen verschiedenen decks ist das beste meta überhaupt da man einfsach nicht runde für runde gegen den selben schrott spielt...sondern einfach jedes match was anderes haben kann und das ist doch geil...ohhhh ich kann man side nicht anpassen bullshit...einfach bullshit...wer rumheult weil es zu viele decks sind hat sie meiner meinung nicht alle...es gibt nichts besseres und genau da zeigt sich ob man n guter player ist oder nicht da man halt auch mal auf skill setzen muss um zu gewinnen
I don't get one thing: if it's more difficult to got prepared for an event, isn't it better for a pro player? Isn't it better for the more skilled ones? 'Cause that way the best ones has the chance to be better than the others. If the difficulty cap is too low, it's more difficult to prove one's skill
Sometimes there's just no way for a single archetype to cover everything, I miss the times were tier 1 decks were like a swiss knife, as long as you played perfectly you could answer anything, but for that the game needs to last at least 5 turns per player.
It's where the difficulty is that matters. The problem with diverse formats is that you could prepare for let's say the top 3 decks, spending 100 hours prepping, then NEVER play a single one in the event. Essentially all the work you put it in doesn't matter and you at the same level of prep now as a guy that put zero prep in. That's where Pak's frustration was in his tweets. It feels like all the work preparing doesn't matter.
I don't think you understand "One guy'd" in twitch chat terms. it's not about it needing to be said but it's a single comment that kind of derails the discussion and forces you to rant about that comment which you did do. in every situation someone get's "one guy'd" it needed to be said but instead of just casually responding to it like you do with all the other comments you fixate on it. I just don't understand how Tear 0 format was "the most skill intensive format" but not a format where there are a wide array of decks that all essentially have their own win con that isn't super generic (like POTE format where every non tier 1/BASED deck was just scythe lock turbo). it definitely takes more time and skill to learn all these different matchups oppose to just a mirror where you are hoping you mill good, your opponent didn't dweller or stun you, and sequence your chain links correctly. it's funny Pak complains about the "1000 different decks" when he played against decks he should 100% be familiar with and tested against D-link a constant in the last few formats, VS a community favorite for some reason with a few tops, and 2 Tears the deck everyone is preparing for.
You made the point that the overwhelming majority enjoys diversity, which is true, but the problem is pro players (players who make money through yugioh content and performance), have an oversized voice among casuals, and so it brings down the community as a whole when the pros rant on the format incessantly
OK genuine question, if one doesnt actually play/experience the meta by being a casual, how much of their opinion on said meta are generally accurate? Like many make fun of yugioboomers for not giving modern yugioh a proper try but complaining about it anyways, yet I don't see a big difference between the yugiboomers and these "casual competitive" players in all honesty. Sure it's easier to just pin "anime fan" to the boomers, but the casual competitives are practically doing the same thing just with "their pet deck"/random jank instead. And if one is casual anyway why does the meta matter to them? If they are casual like they say, then embrace the casual mentality, play ones pet deck, drop the notion of winning/losing, stop caring about the meta, fuck around if they want, proxy if they are only playing with their friends for all i care, and just have as much fun a possible. Put their actions where their mouth is. The casual competitive that bash on yugiboomers feel like borderline hypocrites in all honesty. Now, I will say that I am technically a casual competitive. However, I actually give compassion to newer/returning players and (importantly) don't try to overstep by complaining about the meta (or praising it for that matter) when I honestly don't have that good of a grasp on it.
Super diverse... 30% Rescue Ace tops. I don't think it's diverse, just unsolved. People use the word diverse but the format still has options you just have to call the meta right. 8 Competitive decks is currently completely fine, also Tear should not he played but people want to play Tearlament
It is absolutely unbearable seeing the chat constantly jump to absurd/irrelevant conclusions that either straight up misrepresent or ignore the primary point being discussed. How do so many people seem to be incapable of understanding a basic, nuanced discussion? I can’t even imagine having to engage with this shit on a regular basis.
The more I think about it. Power creep and 1 turn ftk's are ruining yugioh. At this stage, if they don't scale back the power of these decks that end the game turn 1. I think yugioh has a good chance of dying off slowly. "Draw the out" wouldn't be an issue nor cracking back and winning turn 2 shouldn't be a thing. Interactions that don't just completely obliterate every turn would be refreshing and be way better for the game
If pro players are really good then they should be prepared for everything, including rogue and should not side to hard counter just a handful of deck.
Here's the main issue with the game right now: [insert oversimplified statement about the game that is made just for the sake of oversimplification and doesn't take into account different pov's]
26:18 No, you're under the assumption that you're supposed to be able to prepare for your opponents. You're not. It has only been that way naturally because some room temperature IQ idiot at Konami was designing cards specifically to be weaker than other cards in the same sets which made formats revolve around only the good cards from those sets.
The editing is not good this time - it's hard to focus on the stuff that Jesse says in the video when the Zelda background music is on the same volume. Quite annoying. :/
I honestly think Pak was just being salty as all of his complaints were invalidated by his YCS top with infernobles in the same format he said he hated. Bro is just a sore loser.
Its a little surreal. Josh and Jesse are 2 of the nicest players the competitive scene has ever seen. Then you have have Pak, Trif and Farfa who are so toxic you cant explain why you dislike them without being toxic yourself.
I like Pak but he just went on a baby cry ass rant . And the fact that in his vid he said he wasn’t doing the Predaplant stuff to upscale the cards is a cop out cause there been a bunch of other yugi comtent creators he’s cool with that have said it’s true that he was doing that
Trif is a genuinely nice guy who is very supportive and appreciative of his friends and promotes his viewers making healthy IRL choices and having self confidence. Nothing wrong with playing into an exaggerated meme at the same time
This is a problem caused by Konami. The consequence of allowing a walking macro cosmos floodgate on legs (aka kashtira ariseheart) Dont defend that card Criticize Konami for allowing it to enter the game because doing so led to these several decks being overshadowed. Now, its time to address the consequences of your actions Konami. How will you use the ban list. Either lean towards using it a a method to "balance" or continue to use it as a method to increase profits.
@e-tan3911 how long did Kash exists in the tcg. What did that do to the meta? Why are so many decks now existing? Kash had consequences to the meta. We are seeing that now.
@@chuchojuarez95 1. Kash existed for 7 months. The usual time that konami will allow a deck to exist in a meta before they try to rotate it out. 2. It didn't "do" anything to the meta, since Tear was hit out of existence before Kash even became a viable deck. It basically entered a completely blank format, not much to argue there except hypotheticals. 3. Why are there so many meta decks now? There are 4 at most and a bunch of rogue decks. The format is unsolved and people want to test what decks will be good. It usually takes about 2-3 weeks after a set releases for the meta to shape up. Saying Kash "had consequences" doesn't mean anything? Like yeah, the deck existed, it impacted the meta. It is now irrelevant, so it's impact is gone. Okay. Same with literally any other deck ever. Now what?
I think people need to look more outside of yugioh since diversity and rouge is a lot more prevalent in games. I think pokemon is the key example where the off meta picks sometimes roll up and win since no one teched for it.
That's because there's no Ash Blossom. The only thing you can do in Pokemon to interrupt your opponent is play floodgates like Path to the Peak. Which people do but unlike Yugiouh rogue decks there don't care about that because they're usually single-prizers.
It sounds like "pro players " just hate Yu-Gi-Oh. Most people get into it from the anime. Everyone there has a different deck and the MC overcomes that, that is why it's good. Saying wahhh, I don't want to make a well rounded deck, I just wanna do my combos. That's boring and a different game.
Ummm... this is a video about the competitive scene of the game. If you are playing the competitive scene, you are going to want a healthy meta that is fun to play. The problem is that how we achieve said "healthy" meta is a hard question to ask with a lot of nuance involved. If you want to play casual yugioh, that is completely fine and also valid, but saying someone "hates yugioh" because they want to see thriving competition is... a little weird.
Tier 1 with 5 actually viable and slightly similar side deckable options being good against those top 5 decks would be the best format. It gives you options to side deck cards specifically for your deck to be good, but also just hit the good decks. (Quick thought) We should be diversifying side deck options not how many decks that should be viable if that's even possible. But Diversity is going to kill the completive scene. And honestly, I'm not competitive but if we don't have that scene to achieve something, the card game will die off slowly. Think competitive Esport's and the dead games. The games that didn't support their Esport died over time. ex: Gigantic died almost immediately due to not listening to community feedback. If Konami doesn't take notes on these opinion's this game will die out slowly.
I might not agree with everything you said (well I do for the most part but trying to make a point), but I respect you for being coherent and reasonable (right or wrong, dont matter) with how you framed and delivered your thoughts and opinion. I wish more comments were like this EVEN IF some don't agree with the comment itself.
@@duelme1234 Thanks. I'm just trying to think up reasonable solutions to fix and balance out the game and keep the game overall alive. The way things tend to go in this game, it's either 1: too toxic and blow out. 2: Tier zero and fun for a limited amount of player's that play this game. 3: Too diverse to even have fun playing. Imo, the most fun I had was really Kashtira format where you could side to out the deck you were probably going to play 3 times that day, and if you didn't you had good side deck options that hit kash, but inadvertently were good for Purrely that you were going to see and other top decks. And gave you space for good tech option's specifically for you. Gave you a fighting chance while playing a tier 1-2 deck. Idk now when I play I'm just getting hit with Braindead D-shifter and players that don't want to think but just want to shut off half the games mechanics and pray they win. Sad really and just unfun. Or in the other half of my cases, I have all these side deck cards except for 1 play set that are dead, and you side just not to see them, get turn 1 ftk'd then game 2 they hit you with every board breaker and handtrap imagineable, then proceed to 1 turn 1 card ftk. Idk this game is going into an unplayable state imo. would love to hear your thoughts. And this is coming from someone who pretty much has every sidedeck option available and still can't find a good combination of side deck options to slow down any deck playing right now. Sure TTT, and Thrust are good, but they take up so much space..I don't think they are really that generically good right now. And looking at the side, almost seem bad. But I blame the format for me thinking this way really. When you look at cards that hands down should be played and you circle constantly thinking they are good/bad. You have a problematic diversity issue imo. Where doesn't matter what you have or are playing. Leave it up to a toss up and dice roll and Konami's like (Okay try and have fun now) idk, makes me unexcited.
Konami always rotate the format so I don't get why you're dooming Yu-Gi-Oh. We just got out from tier 0. Next year we'll probably get those 4-5 best deck format.
Honestly i think hitting purrely would fix the problem. Out of the meta deck its the one that needs the most specific outs. Is the least fun to play against is just a towers. By removing the most gimmicky meta deck the format would still be diverse but easier to manage since the rest of the meta can be dealt with with mostly engine alone.
Josh one thing about the crybabies. PAK is literally emotional and cries. He complains about a random card in a deck yet herald of the abyss is a played card currently because purrely is second most representated deck. How can you blame people not netdecking enough so he knows what he can play around. Also he literally played against meta decks. VS, tear, dlink. Then he posts "worst format ive ever played" I mean wtf thats literally crybaby right there!!! I agree that we should be nice and resonable with each other which goes for general human Interaction. That being said noone wants to play the same fucking deck all day long. You dont.
@@Fencer_Nowa explain what “this” emotion is. He said he doesn’t like the format and was disappointed that he didn’t top after putting in the work. “Over a children’s card game” is what people say when they don’t have anything to say about the subject.
@@eleonarcrimson858 i have no problem with him being emotional. Also i dont see the point of being emotional as a strictly non masculine thing. Masculine emotions are usually communicated differently than those from females. That being said, thats not the point. He has influence and started a whole debate because he lost and didnt keep his cool. So he turned to social media "cry" about the game to feel better when all the sheeps Go "yeah pak that was so mean that 1 player played herold of the abyss, although he probably played thrust along side it to counter PURRELY". In the end peoples reaction was mostly the opposite and now his streamer friends over analyze this statement which Pak most likely just threw out there out of pure Frustration. Its a dumb move 100%. If you have some kind of influence you have to watch what you say or live with the consequences (e.g. politicians). In that sense his whole behaviour was immature.
@@Corey91666 no the discussions about this format was relevant even before him tweeting about it. He made a video about the format before even the tournament started.
The Zelda music blasting and overpowering the video madw this series unwatchable and i generally enjoy your cintent very much so this was upsetting . 💀
