One thing I’ve learned in psychology is that in a groupthink scenario( kama hiyo ya Forest Road), the average intelligence of the group is reduced to the lowest common denominator I.e everyone is as intelligent as the least intelligent person in that group which gives rise to these animalistic expressions. Not to be boring but there was an experiment done by an artist called Marina Abramovich( Rhythm 0) where she basically let people( strangers) do whatever they wanted to do to her for 6hours without consequences. The things people will do when they know they can get away with it 😳😩 the conclusion she came to was “in your own performances you can go very far, but if you leave decisions to the public, you can be killed.” Feel free to check that out. All this is to say it is wise of Ben and Wanjiru not to have wished to be involved in that fracas and to seek external help because no reasoning was going on in that space. It is very unfortunate that this is something we can do to our fellow humans and I wish I had the answers to how we can stop this from being a reality 😔
Here’s what I’ve realized about myself as I got older. I’m quick to notice immediately there’s an overwhelming number of men present. And I mean even one man when I’m alone. In such situations, I’m very uncomfortable, guarded, afraid, and sensitive. I avoid lifts, apartments with many houses, public transport, homes where I’d have to walk past thrift stores or boda stops or groups of men, even some events to the best of my ability. Yes Ben, tumefika hiyo point and I can only wish my children never have to interact with many men they don’t know if they don’t want to 😬😮💨 (Please note, I’ve not accused men of anything here…I’m saying the insecurities, tension and other things that culture has accepted/allowed have made this our world, and that’s my response)
If you can/wish may be in future, Kindly come back to the conversation of men compensating their wives when on maternity leave or if they are stay home moms. Felt like you're on different pages, i would want to hear more on your different perspectives. Thanks💙
Honestly its sad that for us women, we have to really consider so many things before going out, from dress code, location, the gender difference(how many men or women are around) its hectic!! I agree with wanjiru, mimi even being in a mat that has more men than women is scary and I will get off, there are paths I wouldn't pass, if I see many dudes infront of me I slow down or even go back to where I was coming from 😅😅its not even funny, kwanza when you see boda boda guys, I feel like vanishing, cz when those guys greet you ukose kujibu, you are Doomed, if you answer them you feel worse cz you know you answered out of FEAR!!! Its crazy to think that fellow human beings can scare us like this, wueh!!!
This totally describes how most of us feel. I will cross the street to be on the opposite side if there is a man walking behind me in the evening. This reality is just sad.
I usually feel weird when i board a matatu and the ratio of men to women is like 2:1, wooi mi ushuka tu, i feel insecure in the presence of so many men
The lift scenario happened to me today and I got so uncomfortable, I couldn't even get in, the guys were loud and it's like the guys were hyping me to go inside but I felt insecure to go in. We went in with a different guy now in the second lift and he was like mbona umekataa kuingia iyo lift ingine, umeogopaaa? Like it was so obvious. I can relate to Wanjiru.
I feel like we can have one episode for story telling coz the way Wanjiru dont like to narrate it n thn Ben is like weeeee hii lazima nipee Joyrides ,i laugh soo hard #the kericho story
I think these questions should be answered by everyone to each other, not just couples; among friends, colleagues, family because personally I have friends who need calling out, I too need some calling out for enabling some of these bad habits but who is willing to call their friends out for fear of whatever. These questions would help people clearly see themselves and the role they've played in creating the world today.
On the issue of men being pursuers and ladies being the recipients, I’d say that even in the context of a relationship, pursuit is a never ending thing and can be a mutual thing e.g texting first, calling first, doing thoughtful things that make the other feel special, buying gifts,etc. This can be mutual and isn’t on one person/ gender. Also, a small request, is there a way these questions can be linked in the bio for those who want to go over them in their relationships? Sahii ni ku pause and then write the question down then to proceed lakini ni tedious kidogo.
Yes , I can't enter a lift if there are just men. I feel more comfortable taking walks with my husband. I could never board a matatu with just men, infact I count the ratio of men to women. Yes I also tend to be more aware of how many men are somewhere versus women. It's a security issue.
I think the discussion about the woman taking maternity leave is an important one to revisit. The woman in taking maternity leave is not only not being paid but it's delaying or slowing down her career progression (bonuses, promotions etc) and she is losing out on that. She is also not having adult interaction or freedom of movement. Alot changes in the birth and upbringing process that it is very fair for her to ask for compensation from her partner. In a healthy space I don't think that that should be a bone of contention... In fact she shouldn't have to ask. We live in an economy that runs on money and money comes with freedom. To not pay her is really to curtail her freedom. Also, women empowerment is not at the expense of men. It has never been. The disparity in the real life experiences on the ground are testament to this.
Always waiting for this moments of new episodes ❤️❤️. Njiru I just love you with all that you have and are. May God bless your marriage 🙏🏻 Sisi aunties wa online tunangoja nieces na nephews tu😂😂💯 God bless you two aki sana❤️❤️❤️❤️
I'm also very cautious of the type of gender around me....like wanjiru if I get to a lift and see it's men alone I pretend I was not to use that and wait for the next one ...and not only in lifts even in public means... reason being I once boarded a matatu at pangani hapo kwa highway( I'm even shaken every time I remember this insidence) the conductor opened the front door where there was one man and the driver ....so when the mat took off all of a sudden mlango ikaanza "kukataa kufungika" so the conductor was like madam funga mlango and I really tried to funga but in vain,then all of a sudden uwoga ikaingia and I looked back only to find four men sitted in very funny position all smoking ....I tensed and immediately started to command the driver to stop the matatu or jump....I even held the mlango with my leg pretending I want to jump...alfy i knew hapo gurunanak Kuna police so I knew tukifika hapo I'd scream...but thank God the driver stopped and I jumped outside only to realize my bag was open kumbe the guy I was sitted next to was robbing me as the conductor tries to zubaisha na mlango....since that day nikiingia kwa mat na iko na wanaume tupu akiananu Mimi hushuka I feel scared...
Listening to this now and I can totally relate to Wanjiru when she said she often gets fearful in a room full of people of the opposite gender. That is so me!
I have always been scared about boarding a matatu when it's only men inside especially at night. If the women inside alight before I get to my destination I always feel pressured to just take another one even though I already paid the exact fare. It really is scarier.
Wanjiru is right,,, I have on several occasions not boarded a matatu because it was just men on board. It is very conscious in my mind to always scan the spaces am in especially the more 'dangerous' ones like lifts matatus, parking lots etc.
This was a great conversation and I feel like it should have had a more nuanced approach to really highlight the struggles that people that are outside the cis-gender male pov have. Gender is a social construct that has more than just man and woman and I do understand it’s from your personal povs. However, I do hope that in future you could have a discussion that includes other genders, their struggles and active practical solutions for gender issues ❤️
You are always good a couple, and you are lunching great ideas and fantastic questions as well. One of my concern is you are sometime speaking in Swahili as noon Swahili speaker we're missing some valuable information. Please translate some Swahili if any
Initially i never thought i was bothered being around men as the only female till this one time i traveled in a matatu as the only lady and i couldn't let my guard down, the whole way i was so alert and i only calmed down on arriving to my destination. This said, i think this type of conversations are necessary.
It's the consistency for me One let me appreciate the fact that you two are gender Sensitive and you carefully handle gender topic Second on an elevator if I find men alone manze I will get in There is that ka thing that makes me fear
This episode guys! Amazing and triggering as well. I like how it's getting deeper as the topics progress. Trauma,then this,whoosh!! Keep at it ♥️ And yes,I worry about ALL spaces I'm in. Feeling unsafe for women has become like a norm and it's extremely sad.
I also feel like men wouldn't get away easily with GBV issues either as the victim or perpetrator while women can on the other hand. However, this is debatable too I really agree with Ben on issues as he's articulating them and especially towards the end I relate so much with what Wanjiru is saying about women! It's just so true and a sad reality!
I once alighted a matatu before getting to my destination because everyone else had alighted except me the driver and some other guy. The other guy ni kama alikua anajuana na the conductor and the driver because they were talking. My anxiety went over the roof and I had to get off
i remember my phone getting snatched from my finger and the next day in a cab i was alone with two guys and i kept praying that we get to the destination fast, i was holding my bag tight and ready for anything, was glad when i alighted. the catcalling, its there you have to develop a thick skin though its always irritating. sad times
This episode is very triggering for me, made me sad how long as women we have to still to go. I am glad content like this is moving us to the right direction. Thank you so much Joyride podcast. A trick I use on the lift whenever I am alone with men is to just press several floors that are on the way. This means that the lift will open on those floors and that way you are safer as there isn't enough time for whatever fishy motives could have happened lets say if the lift was from 1-7th floor nonstop.
I greatly relate with Wanjiru on the elevator issue and I totally agree with Ben that it's very sad it's gotten to a level where men are now the biggest threat to women
I share in Wanjiru's feels about finding myself in an all-male lift....I get jitters to be honest and if possible I just alight on the next floor...heri niendelee na stairs aki or hope to get more females in the next lift
I just hate being catcalled.....I remember last week I was in town just around Archives and these men who stand on their shops calling customer...I was just walking past them and one of them held my arm and he was like uko msupuu I was so irritated I felt like going back and just talk bad but I just focused ....it’s irritating
The number of times we have to stop ourselves from going back to someone who has touched us on the streets. I hate that as women we are never safe in these streets. Arrgh
I feel like this questions are very good for a couples games night,so if you guys wouldn't mind sharing the questions after the episode we would appreciate
I loved loved the parting shot..thank you for explaining primary and secondary rights...Thank you Wanjiru and Ben for being a light to us..God bless ✨❤️
Ben for the woman who wanted compensation it's coz before that moved in together the man made I clear that he expected her to cater for 50% of all bills so during the six months she want him to give her halfof what she would have been paid if she had gone back to work so that she can continue the with her 50% contribution to the expenses.
43:46 I have always feared men because of personal recurring cases of sexual assault which sadly is getting normalised. Growing up I've been brought up by men( dad and brothers) who cared about me. Huku nje it's been different. Everywhere I see a guy I get so uncomfortable and filled with fear. I don't know how to associate with guys anymore.
I am Wanjiru.....I always look around, who's with me in a lift,matatu or social gathering..always so cautious and scared if the men in the room are more than the Ladies
I relate with wanjiru on the elevator story i get so scared nashangaa tutafika ground floor saa ngapi.. nowadays we really don't trust men that much you can't tell what is the next action they are thinking
Its sad how so many incidents that you have featured on this topic, the immediate reaction for Wanjiru and women around the world is " I have to get myself out of this space for my security". Its sad that we have to watch our backs every damn time, sometimes even when you are alone in your own hse. Its sad that in this day and age we have to fight for basic courtesy and respect. #EndGenderBias
For me about looking for my gender in the place I am, it's so bad in a matatu. I would literally shuka a mat that has only males ata kama nitachelewa mahali naenda. It's really becoming insane.
I'm pretty much the same as Wanjiru hapo kwa story ya lift, I'd feel very insecure entering a lift that only has men. I think it's something that happens in many other spaces, it's a sad reality but yeah that's the notion and environment some of us have grown up in.
It'll be hard to forget the day I walked with a Schoolmate and a group of men cat called her in my presence. As a person who was affected by that incident indirectly(for the first time),I felt uncomfortable. I still wish I spoke to her about it so that I can understand how she felt/Did something about it.
I also get very uncomfortable when am in an environment of especially males one because I usually dont know what to expect of them with everything thats been going around on the socials of the harrasments and all that.
On Wanjiru’s point of lifts I can’t sit in a matatu that has no lady no matter how late I am or where I am I will get off and wait for a lady or two to enter and same case in lifts or walking somewhere and I notice a group or more than one man walking behind or in front of me I naturally get so anxious and almost panic
For Wanjiri it's lifts, for me it's matatus. I will get off at the same stop as the last woman and just wait for another matatu, rather than continue in one where I am "alone".
Juzi usiku nilikuwa nataka kupanda ktrans gari ya kwenda ngong kutoka tao huyu msee akaniovercharge nikaamua sitapanda huyu msee akanishika mkono ya left na akaanza kunifinya imagine nilitoka hapo kama nimeumizwa mkono alfu akaanza kunitusi using my sexuality
Lifts and matatus for me!I get so anxious and scared actually...it's not a self esteem thing...I just cant stand a group of men esp in some closed space.
Woow me neither, on that instance ya lifts, if I haven't gotten in yet and it's all men I won't go in If the lift fills up with men when I haven't yet gotten where I'm going, I'm more likely to go out if I'm the only one It's just uncomfortable Even before boarding I'll check whether there's another woman
