JUNKYARD TURBO 3800 V6-WHY DOES IT MAKE SO LITTLE HORSEPOWER NA AND SO MUCH POWER UNDER BOOST?

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HOW TO MAKE SUPERCHARGED 3800 V6 HP! SHOULD I TURBOCHARGED MY SUPERCHARGED 3800 V6? WHAT MAKES MORE POWER, A TURBOCHARGER OR SUPERCHARGER? HOW MUCH POWER CAN I MAKE WITH A TURBO? SUPERCHARGED L67/L32 POWER MODS. HOW MUCH POWER WILL THE STOCK L32 MAKE? HOW MUCH POWER WILL THE STOCK L67 MAKE? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I DISCUSS THE POWER MODS I APPLIED TO THE 3800 V6. THE MODS INCLUDED UPGRADES TO THE GEN 5 SUPERCHARGER INCLUDING SMALLER BLOWER PULLEYS, CAMS, PORTED HEADS, INTAKES, HEADERS AND A SINGLE (CHEP) GT45 TURBO. YOU CAN EVEN PURCHASE SOME OF THSE COMPONENTS (PORTED HEADS, CAM, BLOWER AND PULLEYS, INTAKES) NOW THAT THIS PROJECT IS COMING TO AN END! HIT ME UP AT killerbe16@aol.com.

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29 мар 2022

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Комментарии : 396

@zerohourdrift 2 года назад

3800’s are definitely slept on, just wish there were more options for aftermarket parts like heads and intake manifolds and stuff

@emersonurbina8042 2 года назад

Honestly zzp is extremely overpriced for basic parts compared to other platforms

@jacobburskey3044 2 года назад

@@emersonurbina8042 because they are 1 of 2 company's who sell a large amount of parts

@emersonurbina8042 2 года назад

@@jacobburskey3044 yeah I understand that but it's still crazy have you seen their CAI it's so cheaply made and cost like 300 bucks I understand performance parts but some things are insane same with intense racing

@emersonurbina8042 2 года назад

@JPL Performance that is true and sadly with it being fwd is the reason the platform isn't as popular

@jacobburskey3044 2 года назад

Imo parts like that are some you can easily make your own, just as effectively, for a lot less. Specialty parts is when you should go to them like their intercooler/cams/equalizer/etc

@leeselset5751 8 месяцев назад

The 3800 made 200hp NA. From a V6 in the 90s, that's massive.

@LOVE-VIBES-X-PROJECT-CARS Месяц назад

But almost all the v6 cars from the 90s made around 200 hp

@tskraj3190 2 года назад

I just came to say the 3800 V6 is still a beast. It is the BEST American engineered and built V6 ever. I would say the same about the Ford Ecoboost but those were engineered by Mazda.

@collin3800 2 года назад

I have both, in the form of a 04 GTP and a 16 SHO, and the 3800 wins by miles. The Eco makes amazing power, but they're absolutely no where near as reliable, very expensive to fix, and ummm... $3,000 water pump.

@collin3800 3 месяца назад

@@scotthoward4836 the FWD 3.5L EcoBoost

@lukeanderson5781 2 года назад

Love this 3800 content. Especially pump fuel budget stuff. So many L36 and L67s in Australia still.

@HeartLessGem_ 8 месяцев назад

As an aussie, it feels good to see this motor being reviewed and tested, this is a holden 3800 ecotec here in Australia used in the commodore, used from 96 to 04 (from what i understand) both n/a and supercharged in a rwd platform ONLY, heaps of aftermarket support for the 3800 also 👍🏽🇦🇺

@washedwiththeword 5 месяцев назад

They did make an awd, the adventra "The Holden Adventra is an off-road version of the Commodore station wagon and was built from 2003-2009. The Adventra boasts full-time four-wheel drive, 200mm of ground clearance along with V8 and V6 engines. The Adventra also has a tough looking body kit with wheel arch extensions and underbody protection." So yeah

@HeartLessGem_ 5 месяцев назад

@@washedwiththeword i would love to see an ecotec version of the cross6 / adventra, the alloytec was junk because people didnt know how to take care of them, people treated them like ecotecs 😂 hasn't changed the oil in over 40,000 kms and its rattling like charity bucket you throw your coins into 🤣 also seeing a L67 adventra would be awesome aswell 🤷🏽‍♂️

@HeartLessGem_ 5 месяцев назад

@@washedwiththeword there's actually a large forum page going into full detail on how to convert a VY/VZ GTO/Monaro to AWD using the cross8 / avalanche drivetrain, essentially turning them into that awd monaro holden produced in the early 2000's, was a great read 👍🏾

@Dr_Xyzt 4 месяца назад

Is there a bellhousing adapter there in AUS so I can bolt a V6 FWD 3800 to a RWD tremec TKX? I built a coyote project that was outrageously expensive, and at the end of the day, I think a really clean turbo 3800 would actually have been better for the car.

@HeartLessGem_ 4 месяца назад

@@Dr_Xyzt sure do man, adapter plate too, I'd assume t56's are a dime a dozen, especially LS ones. Type into google - HOLDEN V6 TO LS1 / T56 - ADAPTER PLATE KIT - and you'll find what you need, ill find you a clutch kit aswell 🤙🏾

@thomaselliott4562 Год назад

The 3800 was an absolute workhorse of an engine. I'm so sorry it was discontinued. My NA Series II is a stock unit in a 2005 LeSabre. Fantastic fuel economy, 34.2 MPG crusing interstate at 70. This is basically the economy of a Honda Accord from a mid-size V6 in a 3700 lb 6 passenger sedan. Nice work you did on the turbo mods!

@c0c0asauce 2 года назад

I think I would put the blame on the intake manifold being really bad for the naturally aspirated run. The head work didn't get the chance to shine until you put it under boost. Those two things made the power numbers go from lame to exceptional.

@edmundnlemadim8480 2 года назад

I wholeheartedly agree. Doesn’t matter how much you optimize an air pump when it’s sucking through a straw. Now that the engine doesn’t have to overcome an inefficient manifold because it’s being FED air instead of requiring the cylinders to draw it in, the true volumetric efficiency of the engine with the improved head work is revealed. Similar effect is also seen with the LS4 transverse mount V8. They pick up big power when swapped

@edmundnlemadim8480 2 года назад

The intake manifold being swapped, that is

@toddlynch7282 2 года назад

@@edmundnlemadim8480 There's a fair bit to be said for the E85 in the equation, as well. It's a fantastic high-performance fuel that has an "octane" rating over 100. That gives you the ability to push more boost (or compression) without having to trim timing out. The 3.8L engines, particularly the SC versions, trade lower compression (many variants under 9:1) for higher potential boost. Combined with a good cam and some aggressive ignition timing, you get crazy amounts of power out of seemingly ordinary or underwhelming NA platforms. And it's funny that it could be the heads making all the difference, here. Recall the LQ4 and LQ9 V8 truck engines - same blocks and entire lower assemblies. The difference is literally the heads - the LQ4 had the low-compression head (9.4:1) and made 325hp/370ft-lb while the LQ9 had the higher-compression head (10:1) and made 345hp/380ft-lb. But the LQ4 engines (or, at least the heads) were snatched up by hobbyist drag racers because they took boost a lot better. Less compression means they don't need to pull as much timing out under a given boost load. (And, for the record, without boost, the LQ4 ran just fine on 87 octane "regular" but the LQ9 demanded 91 octane "premium" to avoid pre-ignition.)

@ebperformance8436 7 месяцев назад

I completely gutted my M-90 plenum……I Removed everything….it’s truly hollowed out…. it can never be a Super charger…but it’s a lot lighter. I made sure I didn’t cut into the coolant lines….it was a pain in the ass….the Aluminum is tough on those things.

@jerretthensley8155 Месяц назад

From someone whos put his wheel time in on these, several actually. Upgrade your water pump, switch immediately to a inline fuel pump and switch the 4l60e for a 4l80e and have the shift kit installed.

@shannonsisk 2 года назад

My theory on the hp/psi going up, is how you described taking the plate off the blower and the NA motor wanting more air than the TB opening could provide. As the boost pressure increased more air was going through the throttle body more efficiently and into the gutted blower.

@sykes229 2 года назад

Dang you posited while I was typing

@KarelBeelaertsvanBlokland Год назад

Richard - If the 3800 is such a good basis - why don't you try to make a twin-turbo setup reaching the 710HP of a 488 Ferrari Pista? You made already 600HP+ with a single turbo/supercharger setup. It would be hilarious. A GM small block V6 beating a Ferrari V8!

@richardholdener1727 Год назад

700 HP WOULD JUST BE MORE BOOST FROM THE 1 TURBO-NO NEED FOR TWINS-AND WE ARE SHOOTING FOR 1000 HP

@MrKeithgilliam 10 месяцев назад

You ever do any work for people I have a lambo Diablo kit car with the 3800 super changed.

@danielsullivan9865 2 года назад

That’s what low compression engines do as boost increases the volumetric efficiency increases therefore increasing the Horsepower drastically. We ran a 5.7 LS engine 8.3 to1 compression very sluggish out of boost no power, under boost it was an animal, made 760 rear wheel horsepower at 14 1/2 pounds of boost. 10.5 to 1 Would make more power under 15 pounds of boost but not drastically more.

@Mitchd03 2 года назад

i have 2 300zx's one is NA to T with 9:1comp other is factory turbo with 7.8:1 comp, both cars feel about as fast as each other when flooring it, but the factory turbo car and can be a sluggish dog driving thru carparks and tight suburbs unless you keep the revs up, where the 9:1 is much better behaved below 1/2 throttle

@3800S1 2 года назад

That's a good point. My friend and I built an NA L36 for his speedway car. He has custom domed pistons and ZZP alloy heads which has 14.5:1 comp on e85 with a moderate cam of 228/228 and 0.543 lift. His goal was a boat load of low to mid torque. It peaks 335hp at just 5000 rpm. It has the yanky series 3 banana manifold as it flows better than the crappy Aussie ones. His car is very successful and comes in the top 10 out of around 100 competitors and is the only V6 out of the top 10 against Barras and LS v8s. Considering the moderate cam it makes good power at low rpm due to good head flow and high comp. I am sure with a proper racing cam in the 260+ duration and ITBs it should get 100hp/L or more with the rest of the combo it has. Interestingly the series 1 3800 here in Aus has much more of a history for NA development than the series 2 did and was even used in a Formula series here and they made 340hp at 6700 rpm on 10:1 comp back in the 90s. They used a flat tappet cam then as they didn't have mechanical rollers that were fully shrouded to prevent oil gallery uncovering back then. And they have tiny 1.76 X 1.5" valves, much smaller than the series 2 and 3. They were also restricted to 60mm single stock throttle as per series rules. I plan to built one of these engines but with modern techniques. Head porting has come a long way since, you can easily run 12:1 on pump fuel with a 260 duration cam with a good tune these days and the cam is available in roller now as well as custom mech roller lifters to suit. Larger throttles are easy to make. I expect probably 360-380 hp NA.

@mddunlap03 2 года назад

The higher compression motors make more power every where and spools turbos much faster though and big gains off peak. It will limit you if you are knock limited by the fuel as it’s down side.

@Mitchd03 2 года назад

@@mddunlap03 Well aware, the stock ecu is tuned for regular, so I just run premium fuel at stock boost level, no intercooler but with a newer, more efficient turbo than factory.

@joshuanetto9431 8 месяцев назад

Awesome content Sir. Very informative and helpful I always find myself referring back to your ls test videos for ideas on my builds thanks for all the hard work. Cant wait to see whats next.

@guyforlogos 2 года назад

Very cool tests Richard! Thanks for these great comparisons.

@ChevySpeedAddict 2 года назад

It would be awesome to see you do a collab or something with Terrell Smith. He's one of the foremost 3800 gurus and builders in the community. He just finished a Paxton centrifugal supercharged 6 speed build on his Hellboi Grand Prix.

@jplperformance9073 Год назад

Love the content, just sent your heads to get ported even more. I can't wait to see the difference in flow

@CHINGY1993 2 года назад

So hanging for the big bang on this motor. Keep up the great work richard

@stephanM5 2 года назад

It comes down to efficiency, the more efficient the heads flow air in concert with the cam and intake are what makes power. When you maximize those variables coupled with additional fuel and boost, the sky is the limit on how much power you can generate. This applies to every engine. The pistons and crankshaft merely harness the force generated by the chemical reaction that occurs in the combustion chamber.

@TotemTom 2 года назад

I can't help but feel that this has more to do with the efficiency range of the turbo than with any property of the engine. I'm curious what the compressor map looks like for this particular GT45. It may have just been that at 1 bar, it was entering its most efficient operating range

@turboL67 Год назад

Exactly this.

@929cosmodude 8 месяцев назад

i have played with these turbos a bit and you are correct, they are a bit lazy on lower boost but in my experience once they hit over 20ish psi they really come alive

@ltws6657 2 месяца назад

Been telling people this for year's. The cars these motors came in make people overlook them, i feel like they havent had their "time" yet. Eveybody usually had the same reaction to my old turbo Grand Prix GTP when i would tell them about it. Kind of a "yea whatever dude, sure" reaction. As soon as they went for a ride, they understood it, love seeing someone else giving the platform some love

@kevinengland4042 2 года назад

It obviously has the right turbo cam installed!

@Torquemonster440 2 года назад

%100 correct, it's all about selecting the appropriate (boost specific) camshaft. 😜

@johnbehneman1546 4 месяца назад

I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. PLEASE CONTINUE TO SHARE YOUR TRUTH.

@ricardourias806 7 месяцев назад

I’m interested in the 3800 project I know I’m a year late but I just came across your channel today and the content in your channel is what I’ve been looking for

@GIGABACHI 2 года назад

Low C.R (8.0~8.5 : 1) + HIGH boost = wicked HP and torque.

@chrisspbacon_ Год назад

I’m getting ready to turbo my 3800 series 2 in my 1998 firebird, thanks for this video! Looking forward to the build

@joshuajones078 4 месяца назад

Can’t find any turbo kits, do I have to make it all my self or trust the ones off eBay?

@K.O240 Месяц назад

Is there a guide you're following for this? I want to do the same with my series 2 in 02 camaro.

@AmeroBills 2 года назад

I would like to see an actual NA comparison using the actual NA L36 motor which has a higher compression ratio, an then some tests on a top swap and turbo as well using the L67 lower intake manifold vs the L36 version see which makes more power

@goodmanboattransport3441 2 года назад

The turbo increases the effective compression ratio and e85 combination adds power

@rustylugnut8851 2 месяца назад

Excellent work! The big bang I'm hoping to see is the 4.3L lv1 out of the v6 Chevy and GMC vans.

@SDKwarrior 2 года назад

I love these videos for us 3800 guys! Super informative as always with your content. I agree with a lot of other comments on how the na intake literally sucks lol. The holden commodore/calais with the 3800 or ecotec as they name them, has a very different intake design that looks like it would flow much better. Getting one here in the us isnt super easy, but there are a few that have gotten some including myself i would love to see you test

@kurrentracing 2 года назад

Bro I'm buidling some now and idk what route to go

@diesel-technology5507 2 года назад

Turbocharger is probably right in the centre of its efficiency island, so you've got a greater density of air per lb of boost

@fenatic7484 2 года назад

I think that’s a healthy V6, my mother in law’s Olds Ciero that had the 3800 NA and that car ran really good 👍

@JD-so1zv 2 года назад

I love you do all sorts of engines

@davidroberts6594 9 месяцев назад

Love the NIC cam, low lift, easy on valvetrain and nice lopy idle. Powerband past 6k, been running it for almost a decade. I did try a turbo setup, also on e85, same setup, same empty supercharger housing, 16 psi and no intercooler and no knock, was an absolute beast in boost but a total dog off the line so went back to just supercharged, way more fun on the street from light to light. Why it's weak NA? Has to be the poor flowing heads, they were probably designed to keep pre-ignition knock low but horrible in the flow department. Imagine a 4 valve 3800 supercharged, all the torque off the line but added way more power up high.

@richardholdener1727 9 месяцев назад

supercharged is immediate boost-turbo is not-but ultimately more powerful

@BDauto86 2 года назад

It's a combination of efficiency, heads and cam working well to take advantage of the turbo size and E85 helped as it went up.

@Dr_Xyzt 4 месяца назад

That efficiency computation is interesting. Maybe because this is an Iron engine with a lot of thermal mass, that helps it make good use of the latent heat of vaporization in the E85. Plus, you're probably on the good side of the turbo map in the same spot where the head/cam/intake combo is just starting to quit.

@anthonydurantine2292 2 года назад

Great vid!!! And a v6 guy🔥

@shadowopsairman1583 2 года назад

90° V6 like the 262 Vortec 4300 and SBCs (Gen 1-5)

@Brock_Landers 2 года назад

So I had a 2001 Honda Accord sedan that came with a 3.0L (J30A1) V6 that made 200 HP with a 4 speed auto. I pulled the J30A1 with the auto trans and swapped in a JDM J32A (basically a J32A2) with a 2003 Acura CL Type-S six speed manual trans and it was alot of fun just in that form. Those engines are 10.5:1 compression and make 260 HP stock. I bought a cheap eBay set of turbo manifolds, a collector pipe, an up-pipe, and a two-piece downpipe, a GTS3582 dual ball bearing, billet compressor wheel turbo, a custom made set of ARP head studs, a Gates RPM timing belt and water pump, a new timing belt tensioner, a set of Injector Nation 1000cc custom made injectors for the J series engines, and I ran it on an AEM Series II 30-6051 standalone ECU. On 10 lbs of boost it made 458 whp and it was definitely a drop a gear and disappear car. Now I have a 2004 Acura TL and it has the J32A3 that makes 270 HP and has an 11.0:1 compression ratio. I can't use my AEM with it because it's plug n play for the OBD2A harness and it's not meant to work with anything newer than a 2003, so I have no clue how I'm going to control fuel and air...yet.

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

My friend Jimmy has a turbo J32 (now L35) swapped NSX

@pappayeet6032 2 года назад

Well 8.5:1 comp certainly doesn’t help the NA setup.

@tomcelica1030 2 года назад

I think It hurts boosted power the same way

@robbygray9562 2 года назад

@@tomcelica1030 boost loves compression. Issue is cylinder pressure. Hard to keep the heads on a motor with high boost and high compression

@tomcelica1030 2 года назад

@@robbygray9562 boost is a multiplier. It just adds to what’s there

@tomcelica1030 2 года назад

@@robbygray9562 I guess that depends on what you consider high compression. Guys run 12 and 13 to 1 all the time with boost and e85. It’s just with the higher compression ratio it makes tuning very important

@shadowopsairman1583 2 года назад

Erm the L32 has higher compression than the L67

@bluecollarhotrods9781 2 года назад

This reminds me... what ever happened to the 292ci inline six?

@fenatic7484 2 года назад

I think that the multipler with turbo is the rise over run in rpms. The NA/ the roots and the less than one bar of boost showed that the GT 45 is in synch with the rise in boost to the back pressure. It was more efficient at the 1 bar a/r ratio than the lesser boost and the character of the Roots blower backup pressure. I think that you have revealed an overachiever combination that from 11 psi to 14.55 was the flow vs the compression ratio and the rising boost curve and happy back pressure raised the hp proportionally to the advantage in that sweet spot. Good boost vs back pressure and the cool relaxed mixture was in its wheelhouse. A great phenomenon and I just get a kick out of these kind of discoveries. A relaxed mixture with velocity will yield more power than either a sluggish mixture with less velocity than the 1 bar where you hit that happy place in velocity and mixture. I hope my 394 FE and 7875- 1.25 ar will find that sweet spot!

@Dr_Xyzt Месяц назад

I just ran this combination in my software. This goes right through the middle of the efficiency peak for that particular turbo and boost level. This setup is awesome. With a sheet metal intake tuned to 4800RPM, it'll be every bit as legendary as the old indy versions of this engine.

@richardholdener1727 Месяц назад

4800 rpm? Software doesn't show you what actual testing shows you

@Dr_Xyzt Месяц назад

@@richardholdener1727 I want to move the power peak left, just a tiny bit. A high plenum like on a Boss 302 would give you access to the valley of the engine to clean it up periodically. Of all the engines on your channel, this one is one of my favorites. A little bit of bead blasting here and there to clean it up, and she'll be a rockstar!

@amandaschuch2372 2 года назад

Definitely interested in the gen 5 blower

@cstavro 2 года назад

I agree with the others saying the turbo was coming into its efficiency band. Even at 11 psig the turbo is making more power than the engine itself (the turbo characteristics dominate). The small intake valve is a hindrance to high rpm (not what the 3800 was designed for) but the turbo makes up for that. It pushed peak power from 5800 rpm to 6400 rpm. The exhaust valve is sized for a much larger engine and can keep up with the extra air. It's almost as if Buick designed the 3800 to be a turbo motor... There's a Grand National with a series 2, stage 1 stattama cam, ported heads, and a 61mm turbo running 10.5 at around 130 mph. It has to be making over 600 hp, and idles like stock.

@fascistpedant758 2 года назад

The boost/bar formula is only a very rough ballpark estimate that just happens to work out pretty well most of the time. The low static CR of this engine helps you run higher boost before becoming octane limited on E85. On this engine, the turbo is probably well matched to produce a favorable back pressure/boost ratio at 2 bar.

@johnbehneman1546 4 месяца назад

GREAT VIDEO RICHARD. I DO NOT HAVE ANY ANSWERS.

@Fk8td 2 года назад

I’d have to say it had to do partially with how pressurized air flows. Pressurize air doesn’t need as smooth of a transition to flow a lot of air. Which is why charge piping doesn’t need to be as large as the inlet. NA cars any air flow restriction has a big effect. I think the other part is the low compression. Low compression do not have the ability to move air into the engine. Turbo cars eliminate this problem forcing air in. Lastly I think it had to do with the turbochargers efficiency range. I’d have to say your just in a very efficient spot on the compressor map.

@seancollins9745 2 года назад

I've been thinking about doing a video series on combustion pressure, and how it interplays with inpet pressure etc. The quick answer is, as inlet pressure goes up, the in cylinder pressure production relative to port pressure climbs in a logarithmic fashion.

@fascistpedant758 2 года назад

Cylinder pressure is proportional to intake pressure.

@highinthedirt 2 года назад

I think on applications that dont really respond to NA tuning is because they have a bottleneck somewhere, usually the heads, and the increased manifold pressure is able to overcome that deficit in pumping loss.

@shadowopsairman1583 2 года назад

Intake drag as well.

@spacepope-1 2 года назад

I'm about to go pick up one of these puppies on Saturday. Gonna watch these 3800 videos on REPEAT

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

yes

@bert5003 2 года назад

that turbo 3800 would be pretty killer in your project nova if that's still around

@meanman6992 Год назад

Compressor map efficiency, depending on the A/R, turbine and compressor combination, the turbo will prefer to operate within certain ranges, in those islands it will move more air per pound of boost and heat it less. Which results in more power. At the low boost you were probably under that island, and moved into it.

@edwardchristophersen9160 4 месяца назад

True that the gutted blower is an impediment to the NA motor, but don't underestimate the low stock compression of the SC motor. The L67 in my Fiero is just slightly built (headers & cold air intake), and gets crap mileage around town, decent on the highway (30), but when I did 85 MPH on a stretch with a 80 MPH speed limit it got 42 MPG. I figure it was the only time it had enough load to boost the compression for a significant distance. I'm pretty sure the L36 would give me better mileage around town & cruising the freeway. I would miss the acceleration.

@richardholdener1727 4 месяца назад

a vehicle does not get better fuel mileage at a higher speed-and higher compression will add mpg under cruise

@3800TURBO 2 года назад

Heads are getting used now. = 600hp. Also the hp per psi will get even larger as the compressor gets into its efficiency island. First thing to die when you turn it up will be a piston crown, but you will have to lean on it. It'll start knocking but still run fine lol.

@moedigzz 2 года назад

I'd say the first thing to go will be the ringlands. Factory cast pistons were never designed to handle the rigors of boost. The second there is any detonation or if the ring ends butt up, the ringlands crack. Forged pistons are best for boosted applications.

@3800TURBO 2 года назад

@@moedigzz ive had first hand experiance with L67 crowns breaking off. They last for some time though. Have run 9sec 1/4 on the cast pistons and the engine is still going.

@danhall5218 2 года назад

Awsome

@kevinkalivoda3442 2 года назад

The formula for boost predicting hp assumes the na manifold pressure of 0 psi. I suspect the intake manifold is under slight vacuum (negative psi) when running the engine na which will cause higher gains than the math predicts when under boost. So my guess is restrictive intake manifold and or throttle body. E85 most likely makes a difference as well

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

yes and yes

@Clean97gti 2 года назад

Porting helps to a point when you're running NA, but the engine can only suck so much air in per cycle. That's why you see such large gains when you increase compression ratios, because the engine is "sucking" harder to fill its cylinders and compressing that mixture to increase combustion efficiency. It's why leaner AF ratios help right up until it melts something because you turned your cylinder into a cutting torch. Boost allows you to cram more into the cylinder without the drawbacks of high compression and it really allows the porting to play dividends. It's all the little things that add up to fill the cylinders. The bigger ports allow more air/fuel mix through. The bigger turbo pushes more air. The higher boost pressure crams more into the cylinder per stroke.

@user-uc3zo3bf1s Год назад

Hello how are you today? I love your videos and I am an big fan of the v6 parshal to the buick 3.8l or 4.1l have an few of these older engines I like what you have done with the newer engines I. The 3.8l form but what if you added boost to the camaro 3.4l v6 chevys 60* engineer even the hated 2.8l? Juat wondering hope this sparked your wonder some to see. I would also like to ask when you did the fwd intake inside comparison's from high to low why not add boost to that test I thing the low inside would make the best power but what about the rpm of these inside high mid and low what makes what where via each

@ricjona1069 2 года назад

Could the gutted blower be acting as a too large of plenum causing the air flow to slow too much causing there to be no ram effect whatsoever and in fact filling the cylinders less than an NA engine with a normal intake. This would than be overcome by boost making it appear that boost has a more significant impact vs the fact that the NA intake design (gutted blower) is actually working against the natural air flow from high pressure to low as the air slows as it enters the plenum.

@michaelputman6580 2 года назад

I wonder if he has parts for sale LOL. Absolutely interesting stuff for anyone considering a 3800. A video clip of the highest pull to get the sounds and sights would have made this perfect.

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

that video is up with dyno pulls

@michaelputman6580 2 года назад

Will look for it. This came across my Google feed so I clicked 😁

@mightymite3958 21 день назад

Dang makes me wish i still had my 98 camaro, coulda been a sleeper

@edwardwood3622 2 года назад

Low NA - Low compression High under boost - E85 Higher under high boost -IATs exceeded the vapour pressure of E85.

@dannobee 2 года назад

Did you happen to compare backpressure? As others have said, it could be that the turbo is in a more efficient island on the map. Could also be the porting on the heads, as I've seen turbulent ports improve at different depressions. Obviously boost *could* fix a turbulent port. You've tested E85 enough to know what it'll do, so I'll leave that one to you.

@jeraldsteinbronn9001 2 года назад

Thermal efficiency is a good guess. With a given in-cylinder temperature the metal surfaces will only conduct so much heat, even though the chemical reactions with more air and fuel will create more pressure, thus wasting a smaller percentage as wasted heat through the metal surfaces. Another, although less likely, possibility is that the combustion process is more rapid or more complete under higher boost. Considering back-pressure produced during turbocharging, it seems counter-intuitive that volumetric efficiency would increase with higher boost levels. This would not really be the same set of circumstances as with a positive displacement supercharger.

@markrich3271 2 года назад

Boost is a restriction. It's only relevant for that specific combination. The cfm is a huge difference between that blower and gt45 making manifold air much denser , e85 will drop the intake air too and let you run more timing from the higher octane content , the turbo doesn't have the parasitic loss .

@EricErnst 2 года назад

I think the difference can be attributed to the spark timing being a little conservative naturally aspirated. If you added timing, you wouldn't make more power NA, but the boosted combo wanted timing.

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

the na had the timing that made max power

@maclogan6872 2 года назад

It would be interesting to do a hp/ lb of boost comparison on the blowers to illustrate the supercharger’s inefficiency and power consumption.

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

that vid is up

@jamesgeorge4874 2 года назад

The GT45 really likes gasoline engines in the 3.8 to 4.3 litres / 230-250 cubic inches, and E85 makes boost and timing possible, especially with mild compression.

@tomcelica1030 2 года назад

How does the gt45 know what type of fuel is being burned?

@NBSV1 2 года назад

@@tomcelica1030 The fuel allows for more timing and higher boost levels. Turbo doesn’t know, but it does know when it’s allowed to make more boost.

@shadowopsairman1583 2 года назад

4.3 is 262 CID (Vortec 4300)

@robertrowells5134 2 года назад

As several have already replied, some of the issue is probably where you are on the compressor map. Do you have the comp out pressures to go with the boost pressures?

@derrickhill3367 11 месяцев назад

Depending on the particular motor that you got from the junkyard it may have been a high compression head set up already I say that because Buick makes high-compression heads from the factory Pontiac and Chevy did not offer this as an option but Buick did

@MrPizzaman09 2 года назад

I think the engine works well under boost because of the cam timing is working better for volumetric efficiency when there is more air mass flowing in the runners.

@MrPizzaman09 2 года назад

It could also be more thermally efficient with the higher cylinder pressures. These are the only two explanations I can come up with

@dogdue4588 3 месяца назад

Yeah yeah, cam!

@juanlanda2441 Год назад

I am curious at to whether one of these blowers from a 3.8 will adapt to a 5thgen Camaro V6 . Looks like the throttle would be pointing toward the firewall. And if there was a way to adapt it onto the intake 🤯

@robertharper8709 2 года назад

Where is the boost pressure taken from? If it's below the gutted blower, the engine could been seeing a higher boost pressure at the throttle body entrance than what the gauge is showing. Like others pointed out, the N/A motor wanted more air than the throttle body could flow, there cound be a pressure drop to overcoming the intake restrictions and then the boost reading is taken.

@moedigzz 2 года назад

I also think the turbo is just getting into it's higher efficiency islands. When you finally reached 1bar/~15psi, the turbo was just getting efficient. If you would have made a few more runs at 18-19psi, 21-22psi, and 25-26psi, I would expect the HP/psi to get even greater until it the curve flatten out around 25-26psi. Some compressor wheels don't reach maximum efficiency until even higher than 25-26psi. Usually the larger turbos and compressor wheels, don't like to make much power at lower pressure. Most generic gt45's use a 69mm/98mm compressor wheel and a 88/77.5 turbine wheel. They are not small turbos, they have made well over the 600hp they are advertised to make. I have seen these turbos make over 800 Wheel hp(920Crank HP@15% drivetrain loss) I would think the engine would make close to 800whp, if not more, at less than 25psi. Using his 33hp per psi, it would only need another 6psi@33hp/psi=200hp. That would push it past 800whp@21psi.

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

these are not whp numbers-they are flywheel hp numbers and I have maxed this turbo out previously

@sykes229 2 года назад

Do the #'s come back in line if you use the empty blower with open back run as baseline? You said it picked up power. Intake restricted vs E85 + boost?

@swatbwana 2 года назад

I wish I still owned my 89 TTA, All I did was change the waste gate up ,down pipe, exhaust some intake and I was in the 11s I really don’t know what horsepower it was making but it was stupid fast for it’s time .

@MrAPCProductions 2 года назад

I would have to think the intake manifold "design" was the increase. I remember seeing similar findings from really terrible designs for NA power making great power under pressures. Someone explained it to me as the difference of a tailgate being up or down. Pressurized air will sit in "pockets" of the manifold and allow the rest of the air to flow past at a higher rate than it does NA.

@shadowopsairman1583 2 года назад

Aluminum intake on Series 3 NA

@TurbochargedHobbies Год назад

Have you never done anything with ecotec 2.0 engines? Would love to see you do something with the lsj and lnf ecotec engines, I know the lsj's can make good power with a turbo. Seems to be easier to make big power on the lsj since it's not direct injection like lnf.

@joegreen4089 2 года назад

Not that is it much different but the 14.55 run is more inline with 17.5 lbs of boost. very impressive for the little engine either way, especially considering the factory ratings.

@chrismcfaul5050 2 года назад

I think it’s the ring gap/compression for N/A setup vs boosted set up. If you build your bottom end with ring gap for a boosted application it will only make power if the boost is there.. just like if you set the bottom end up for N/A the ring gap is tighter for N/a so that it responds like a N/A should

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

the gap does not change the power-tested it many times

@tslim250 6 месяцев назад

my 94 regal back in the day was series one na, it would beat a 5.0 mustang all day long. I eventually had to junk it. 17 years later i picked up a 93 regal very similar to it, its slower as it doesn't have the composite intake but overall the thing still pulls harder than most cars on the road and still gets me a nice 24 miles to the gallon.

@richardholdener1727 6 месяцев назад

You think an NA 3800 would beat a 5.0L Mustang?

@tslim250 6 месяцев назад

i don't think it, i lived it. the 4t60E transmission may be thought of as weak but what most fail to realize is its geared perfectly for the weight of the car and the power rpm range. The ole pewquick would leave two rubber patches as long as a limo and would dust the mustangs. i remember lining up next to this yellow 98 stickshift 5.0, guy thought he was gonna take me, never saw him after he hit 3rd gear.@@richardholdener1727

@JasonMcCord-qk3yb 5 месяцев назад

I don’t know… I bought an ‘89 LeSabre new, and loved it so much, I bought a black on black’92 Buick Regal Gran Sport Supercharged 2-Door (Black leather might not have been the best idea in Arizona, but I owned a small mobile electronics company at the time, so I just had one of my guys install a remote start alarm system to help cool it down a bit.) A bit of tuning, a custom milled billet supercharger pulley and water/methanol injection and she was eating most sports cars alive (She was also eating transmissions and CV joints as well, but that’s a different story for a different day…). I’m still a Buick 3.8 S/C NUT! I’d really like to put one in a Fiero someday….

@robertmontalvo597 2 года назад

The engine is running at its volumetric efficiency point. And also the turbo is running at its most efficient point on its compressor map. That is where you get the extra gain from. Just my theory

@ajdoty6252 2 года назад

Could heads exhaust flow compared to intake, percentage wise, being very good along with 10 extra degrees @ .050 on cam have something to do with it?

@skami1284 2 года назад

Seems intake manifold may be an issue, torque and hp were similar throughout, suggesting its probably not cam?

@mcwbadass 2 года назад

Hey Richard, do you have any idea what the difference is between the series 1 and series 2 camshafts?

@jstoned1 2 года назад

Maybe getting into the better efficiency islands on the turbo has something to do with it?

@j.pett.4718 7 месяцев назад

Q?; from an 'Proud' owner of a GTP 3800 ser. III - NA. ('04 G. Prix): If I were to Mod w the turbo, what are the stresses on the stock tranny ? A intercooler is an obvious must, cause it already runs way too hot, causing some shifting issues...(common problem). All mods wud be for street / showing & reg. Driving, Not Racing. Trying too keep it cheap, reliable, and simple ! (Also.... I'm an enthusiasts, but, not a mechanic... ) Thanks

@richardholdener1727 7 месяцев назад

stock trans is not strong enough for this power level

@j.pett.4718 6 месяцев назад

@@richardholdener1727 Suggestions ?? Ty

@jasonhanna1 Месяц назад

Hey love the content... i had a 94 cavalier gt with a 3.8 rwd set up with a 6 speed behind it. Thinking about putting one in a pontiac solstice... what do you think?

@richardholdener1727 Месяц назад

lots of work but yes

@andycrips 9 месяцев назад

Did you ever get the "big bang" on this engine done? Thanks for the great videos!

@richardholdener1727 9 месяцев назад

not yet

@ardelljenks6579 2 года назад

Yay 3800s

@strong_voice_of_truth Год назад

My theory is that these engines don't effectively scavenge like a v8 would due to the way they fire bank to bank. That, and the heads are a typical Buick design- made to excel at low RPM torque production but don't really flow that well.

@iann7747 2 года назад

Hey Richard I was wondering if you could do a indepth video on what changing spark plug to a complete modern coil on plug ignition system would look like on the dyno with high end spark.

@richardholdener1727 2 года назад

it adds nothing

@espenschjelderup426 2 года назад

I think it was diyautotune that did a experiment years ago, starting with a distributor and signal from the distrubutor to the ecu. Then added a trigger wheel. Under very high acceleraion rate in a dyno the same engine with the added trigger wheel gained some power. Under steady state the power would be the same. The important thing is that you have a strong enough spark. Many COP systems don't have very strong spark from the factory.