I would also like to add, that in the 70's and 80's, hip hop accomplished what the wider world of America could not. In the hip hop community (not mainstream MTV gangster rap) they were able to have a culture where all were accepted, whites, blacks, latins, even asians. But America at that time, the top government officials, were not able to stop racism in the urban ghetto,
dis battle always cracks me up its no way kaku n aichi were gonna win but dey still did wat dey wanted to do headspins lol i think people should be able to dance however dey want including on their head
because people on the outside looking in, have been saying the same thing you've been saying since the 80's, and even so, it still remained alive regardless, based on pure love of the art, not money resources. Once a pop singer does not fulfill the mainstream way they were portrayed, their record sales will drop, they won't have a ground base either. But real musicians who do it just for the love it
All Very Good at what they do. I respect both sides they practiced something that they liked from the dance and got very good at it :p I would think we can all understand that
they could use that energy, even feelings of hopelessness, and release it in to this dance. There's an instance in California, where there was an L.A. gang who were about to cause some physical trouble to a few innocent bystanders. They were going to possibly take their money, until they realized, these innocent bystanders were members of the L.A. Breakers crew.
Boty is a big event, but it's more based on showcase and flashiness, thus the reason they put so much emphasis on the showcase section of the show, the performance section for crews. And it's judged usually by one U.S. bboy, and then the other two are usually European judges, and Europe has always been known for focusing more on the power side of bboying.
He did a cough gesture right when the lyrics said "cough." The significance is that he knows every detail of the song and rocks every part of it, from the basic eight count to the fast pattern drum, percussions, horn sections, pauses, and lyrics.
Yes I understand that, I've practiced both in Hawaii my hometown, and also in a Korean dance studio for a year with old school Korean bboys. In Hawaii, it was all about freedom, moving to the music, individuality. In Korea, whenever I tried to practice on my own, they'd be like, "Mike come here, we're going to practice flares for an hour" lol. They practice more about getting skills down, and less about creativity, and attitude.
You do know, that the former headspin guiness world record holder, was Easy Roc, from the Rocksteady Crew, and he has the same mentality of foundation being most important. And if you were to watch him dance, he'll do more footwork and dancing, and will rarely do a full on power set, even though he can, even though he was the world record headspin holder.
anyone can be a judge in a ballet comp? Anyone can be a figure skating judge? Anyone can be an official judge at the gymnastic olympics? So why don't they just pick any random person off the street to judge those? No, they pick experts.
an 80's fad of non dancing, only gymnastic tricks. It was only in early 2000, when the Style Elements Crew, started keeping that strong musical connection and bboy foundation, but added in power and strong freezes, and put it together, that bboying started to push forward out again in to the wider audience's knowledge. In Korea as well, Korea has always had CRAZY powerheads, who could airtrack, and headspin forever. But bboying
Things that were created in isolated areas, like basketball, or ballet, is now open to everyone. But being open to everyone doesn't mean you CHANGE all of the fundamentals.
I been bboyn 32yrs Power is a knock out move & i love it.I can teach anyone footwork & style in 2 weeks easy.But power is pain hard hard work & u gotta jam your moves alot.Takes more than two weeks.I never do six step & stuff.Cause that make me a biter.Can do just dont.B.boyn Top rokn,Footwork,Power,& poppin to.Ok im oldskool
is a direct response to that. Old school ground footwork, requires you to only touch your toes on the floor, and you never flat palm, you have to touch the ground with only your outer parts of your palm. This is a direct result from hot sunny concrete outside, if you didn't do it like this, your hands and knees would get burned. Let's go
Problem with everyone nowadays is they are all saying " oh he got power he is all tricks" well if you are a real bboy, you mix all the foundation together and build upon it. After all it is called a foundation for a reason. Power is part of foundation, as well as footwork, tops and freezes, they all make the 4 corners of your foundation.
Headspins are not uncommon in bboying, they are so common and not as hard as you think. Bboys do headspins in power sets, to save energy, whereas windmills, and other power moves, require you to twist, tighten your abs on each turn, keep your legs pointed for momentum on each turn. In a headspin, once you get your first few taps and you're going, you just need to keep your legs out, but your momentum keeps you going.
Now for foundation moves. Ness and Katsu did sweeps, arm sweeps, knee drops, taps, CC's, 6 steps, two steps, three steps, toprock bounces, toprock variations which came from Latin godfather bboys with salsa influence. They kept better form with their hand placement, and angles when they pause in their toprocks, and overall they're steps and movements had more symmetry and they kept their circlular movements in their overall movement down.
Ness was one of the first to do elbow 90's, sweep swipes, etc. When he was younger, he used to a lot more power, and created new types of it. But he's over forty now, he's going to do what he feels, he doesn't need to prove himself with power he's already proven himself before both of us were born. He's been breaking since the early 1980's maybe earlier.
were able to dribble across, and make more baskets in even though the way the "shoot" isn't as fancy or acrobatic like. You don't get marked down or even upgraded for doing a fancy dunk. A guy doing a regular layup or basic shot, gets the same two points a guy doing a under the leg air dunk. Difference is, the under the leg dunker doesn't even dribble, can't control the ball or defend it well with shuffling and dribble techniques, so they constantly
My hometown is Hawaii, there's an old school breaker there named Leonard from Rocksteady Crew (the most well known crew in the mainstream media in the 80's, the ones you would see breaking in movies, commercials, etc). I was in the bboy scene in Hawaii, competing, practicing with other bboys, learning about the culture directly. Now again, please reply since you haven't yet, on the topic, and the topic is not what you think looks the best, not on what the mainstream
Think of it this way, guys like Remind, and Crumbs, can do all of the power moves and they can do them clean. But when they battle, they barely ever do them, I had to watch Crumbs solo dvd to see him do long rounds of headspins, supermans, and other power, but in battles and comps, he doesn't really use them, but uses style moves.
Most of the world known style heads in bboying now, lik bboy Born in Korea, Crumbs, Remind, Moy, Machine, etc, can do ALL of the power moves in perfection with variations, yet they rarely do them in their sets, or they'll add those in to their dance flow. So it's not insecurity, it's that they would rather be true to themselves and to the rules of bboying, rather than just getting wows from the crowd.
Words for moves in ballet, did not exist until, ballet came about and created those words for their new moves. In the same way, people in hip hop, re-used or created new words, for new phenomena, moves, situations, etc, that happened when it was being created. And let's just do plain "proper usage of english words" as you stated.
Yeah, and that comes basically just from Lil Lazy only. Juse does some halos in his sets, and windmill variations, that's it. Other than Lil Lazy though, they don't have a straight up powerhead.
came to nothing in Korea, everyone here just thought it wasn't dancing. It was only later, when crews like Expressions, and later Rivers, started using foundation as the main basis, and then would add crazy power on top of that, that starting in about 2006, bboying grew in to popularity here as well, even though it's been here since the 90's. So according to bboy history, both in the underground,
I even know one of the main Rivers members, and the head of Cartel Creative Charlie shin. Basically, Cartel Creative, is the company that sponsors almost ALL of the Korean bboys in Korea, and Charlie is partners with another well known bboy Korean American from Circle of Fire Seattle. I know bboys who were from the 80's, who learned directly from the creators of bboys in the 70's.
I practice everyday. I go to competitions. I battle. I dance. I know what I'm talking about. Have you every battled? You know how hard it is to go out there and truly express yourself? You don't... That's the point. Katsu and Ness expressed themselves.. Kaku and aichi just proved they have good headspins..
Dancing is what ever you want it to be. ppl express themselves in different ways. True that BBoy = "Beat Boy" but it doesnt mean u hav to b on beat all the time. it just means u dance to a beat. just cuz someone only does 1 move doesnt mean theyre not dancing. Powerheads only do power, styleheads do style moves, headspinners or spinboys do headspins and some ppl do everything. tht the joy of dancing and bboying.
okay, so whatever, ballet or fairy flies, basketball or ballbaskets, I can call everything whatever I want. What is this, tap dancing? Naw, I'll call it loud footstuff, it's all dancing to me.
Yes, many of the bboys who are true to the art, are sensitive about it, including myself, but for many reasons. 1. As with any artist with their art, if you start telling them it's not art and you tell them what they do is like "ants" in their pants, of course it's offensive. 2. Realize where this came from, and why it was made. The kids in the 70's who made this, lived in an area where all they saw was crime, hate,
also, if you think I overdid it and wrote way too much. Well, the amount I wrote, barely covers the dance, but you asked for "a complete rundown" of this dance. You're over there, knowing nothing about this dance, and then saying "okay, give me the rundown on it." why do you think seymourglass26 stopped replying to you? It's because, this dance has so much to cover, that he probably just backed out. I hesitated as well, because I knew there's so much to cover.
Also, the bboy aggressive attitude, came strong from Ness' side, whereas the other side didn't have any bboy attitude at all. The bboy attitude, is as important as having grace in ballet. In music, there's the basic 8 count drum you hear, but that's only the surface, and aichi's side only hit that surface, and not even consistently. Ness' side, hit all of the little parts beyond the 8 count, hitting the lyrics, the other drum sections, cymbals, pauses,
You can't just run across the floor with the ball in your chest, you'll get called for traveling. Kaku and aichi, basically kepy dunking and doing mascot slam dunks, but they did it by skipping the dribbling and basics, so they don't really get points in so many areas. They get points in difficultly, and some originality, but bboying is judged mainly on so many other different spheres. Ness and katsu didn't do flip slam dunks, but each time they
damn yo katsu killed that beat. oh and HolyFireMikey i like your arguement, you prove a good point on the art of bboy. I Agree all the way, nowadays its all about execution rather than creativity. Everyone here in Ny Where im from judges in battles about the foundation, if the bboy had a good foundation and execution, and if that execution is clean. Just remember though, power is a form of foundation
could walk through any of these hard neighborhoods, and people would recognize him as a member of Rocksteady Crew, and he would walk through that place with ease. You see, this hip hop culture is not as irrelevant as you may think. In the large American culture of the 70's and 80's, racism and division was a lot stronger. But hip hop culture, brought this ideology of gaining acceptance, not based on race,
stand strong, regardless of fan base or mainstream attention. That's how hip hop is and always was, you have to respect that. God Bless, use wisdom for both of us during our dialogue have faltered in that area. Peace
By the way, Ness knows how to do power, he does headspins, elbow 90's, sweep swipes, mills, hopping handglides, and those are just the ones I've seen him do. But to do those, you need more basic power, meaning he also knows how to do 90's, swipes, master swipes, and more powermoves that he just doesn't use in all of his sets.
As soon as the gang members realized this, their attitude changed from wanting to cause harm, in to "oh snap, aren't you guys in the LA breakers, you guys are good :o)" Now the tone changed to respect, the situation turned in to peace. You see, in these areas, you were going to get respect by being in a stronger gang...or...yeah, that's basically the only way you could get respect. But
it did not die out, in fact, it's stressed as of more importance now by the wider bboy community, than it was in the 90's. Basically what happened was, people started saying wow to that in the 80's, but got tired of just seeing spinning and no connection to music, so breaking died out in America in the 80's, not sure if you were in America to remember that. Then in the 90's, there were other power crews, but it no longer gained media attention, because it was considered as
They were doing footwork, with all types of actual moves in between, I already named them earlier, like knee drops, taps, cc's, different freezes, bounces, etc, that you don't even recognize as distinct moves. And for the record, doing footwork takes more endurance the headspinning. In headspinning, once you get those taps going and momentum going, your momentum carries you. Footwork, is like doing a straight sprint the entire time.
by the way, I'm not in any way shape or form "ghetto" but unlike you I respect the dance and the music. I understand what it's like to get down to the music. There's more than just the flashy moves you see. peace
It should be a crime to go through a whole battle doing headspin variations. Anyway, props to all the bboys, coz @ the end of the day they all got skillz. Peace!
Geminer, when I first started out I used to think all the headspins, airtracks, etc were so awesome and that's all I wanted to get. But when I started to dance I learned how difficult it was to emulate the music and get in front of people and actually express yourself to the music. You can get headspins in a month or 2 with practice. It's much more difficult to have flow and transition into and out of moves than it is to have a little toprock (which is when your standing)and go into headspins
I don't really understang why you would have two powermovers against two stylists. Doesn't make sense. BTW, for those that have been disputing it, both powermovers and stylists ARE bboys. They rely on each other. If you're crew is going to go anywhere, you can't have one without the other. It's just commen sense.
And at the same time, majority of all of the power moves, were created by Americans in the U.S. Even the new power moves/freezes people might think asian bboys created, were being done in the U.S. before Asia. One armed elbow tracks, one hand hops, threaded freezes, elbow forearm and wrist type freezes, etc.
I watched this - I didn't see anything except quite nice footwork. I never saw Ness doing windmills, flares or headspins... if he doing only footwork - he is only a half of b-boy.
what hip hop brought, was because the dance had that same aggressive attitude and flavor, you were going to get respected without violence or crime involved. Back in the 80's, a normal white guy walking through some of these neighborhoods, would not be able to come back out of that neighborhood, with all of their belongings, or sometimes their very own lives. But certain white guys, like Mr. Freeze back then,
the thing about japanese powerheads is that they do the same thing over and over again...if u watch any other kaku or aichi videos ull understand wut i mean...powerheads like the end and bruce lee they develop a lot more to add as a bboy so theyre more complete which makes it look a lot better
People often concentrate on one aspect. That is what makes a bboy different from a breaker. A bboy mixes all of the foundation and builds upon it, thats what makes the unique danceform. Kaku has foundation headspins, but yet he bulds upon it with his own style, for example his legs are in a split, he has many headspin variations. you might not consider it but he is hitting the beat with his headspins, therefore he is dancing.
come to think of it now, that burn has a lot more meaning then just the usual cutting off of a head, or taking a guy's heart and throwing it in the air. Aichi only did headspins, by cutting off his head, it's Ness symbolically pointing out his supposed strength, as the ONLY thing he can do, thus showing his overall repertoire wack, and weak.
many people don't like how bboys get really aggressive and up in the face of their opponents in battles. That's because, regular culture biases them to thinking one should show civility. But if you understand hip hop culture, where it came from, you understand having that attitude is a part of the dance. But based on regular culture, they are trying to judge hip hop culture on their bias of how regular culture functions.
That's why Massive MOnkees travels the world as champion finalists in huge worldwide events, even though the only power guy they have is Lil Lazy? And he's good, but not the most amazing powermover anyway, and he doesn't come out in every battle. They barely have any power in their crew, yet they're known as legends.
they put hella dedication and work into their training and practice. So what if they battle bboy legends likes ness. Their should be no negativity in it.
guys like remind, ken swift, etc, can do headspins, halos, windmills, babies, etc. But guys like this, in battles, barely ever do them, because, those are not original. They care more about art and creativity, expressing how they feel and their personality/emotion, because it's a dance, not gymnastics. So they're aim, is not to make the crowd go
So from that secondary viewpoint, of course they want to do the fancy moves first, it looks the most exciting. But then if you look at lots of bboys now, EVERYone does airchairs, airtracks, etc, the same moves. As Bebe said, it's more about execution now, rather than creativity and being an individual. Doing moves better than others, rather than making moves that are clearly yours and original.
was because I got a record deal in Korea as a singer. So I'm still in preparation and haven't debuted, but I'm almost done recording my album, and I've gotten the chance to meet a lot of entertainers. I've met Brian from Fly to the Sky (maybe you know him?). The singer Tim. I've seen Park jung ah and Seo In young from the group Jewelry, because some of my songs I got to record at their company studio. Who's your favorite asian artist?
....Man, the aggressive attitude has to do with art, and only IN the battle. After it's done, you shake hands, show love, eat together, and accept them regardless of race or culture. It's only WHILE performing the dance, it's a part of the movements. Imagine bboys moving like ballerinas or jazz dancers, that's minus the aggression, and adding in grace and
it's not contradiction. While in a battle, you get aggressive because that's how one moves in this dance. You're not supposed to move "feminine" or "gracefully." But, when the battle is over, you shake hands, and it's about peace, only IN the battle because you're dancing, you show aggression because it's part of the dance. But you never actually touch and fight the person, that's a mark down.
yeah, they did footsteps in the standing position, which in bboying, is called "toprocking" not "footwork." Footwork involves while on the ground, two steps, three steps, six steps, four steps, taps, cc's, and other techs and even threads (do you even know what a thread is?). Anything in the standing position, is "toprocking" which does use your feet, but it's called "toprocking."
And these guys are not all over mainstream TV. It's understandable if people in those countries knew Michael Jackson, Usher, or Justin Timberlake, always on TV, in the big record stores. But these guys in the ghetto, who are not on big TV or displayed in any big franchise, have that much reach, because of hip hop as a culture continually growing. That's far from irrelevant. Even
That's not even titled "history of biting" in the actual video that clip is from. It's from a full video called "Detours," and it's about how the human body being that it consists of two arms and two legs, you're bound to have similar movements happen throughout history, because we are human. But it's not trying to say not to aim for
30-40 years of hip hop history to cover, and you just want it in some comments on youtube? 30-40 years of history in this dance, and you just come in admitting knowing nothing about it, but thinking that makes you qualified to judge it? Come on man, be reasonable.
But to have original flow and flava (possibly the most important aspect of bboying that you absolutely don't understand) is much more difficult to get because you are honestly expressing yourself. It's like Bruce Lee said "Ultimately the Martial Arts is honestly expressing yourself. It is easy to put on a show and be cocky and show some really fancy movement. But to express one's self honestly, not lying to oneself, is very hard to do."(type in Bruce Lee interview to hear this quote)
they are going to judge Korea's culture, based on the American culture they were brought up in, because that's the only thing they can compare it to. But if a person who has studied and lived in numerous cultures worldwide, they would be able to judge with less bias, because they have a better understanding, of why people do what they do in different parts of the world, rather than just knowing only one way. For example,
lol there is a reason why there are judges at these competitions. It's so ignorant people like you don't ruin the true artists chance of winning. This is an art... not gymnastics. Now if they expressed the music that would be a different story but they didn't. Last tiem I checked, music was a very important part of dance.
If you actually bboy you would understand and know. It's something you understand by doing and exposing yourself to the culture. I've been really offended by what you've been saying because this is the dance I LOVE. I love the feeling of rocking the music and letting my expression out in what to me is the best outlet.
well not everyone can be creative with there footwork, thats the hard part.. I aint hating on power cuz people really overlook the style in power, but footwork is just as hard, not physically but mentally.. the difference between power and style heads is that style heads dance with their mind but power dances with their body.. both are equally hard and both are dope
It's not because they can't do em, but it's because, bboying was always supposed to be about individuality, and not biting, creativity. So even though they can do the moves, and everybody starts doing it, it's time to create your own moves rather than everyone doing the same power. But other countries, look at bboying first from the outside, and the moves catch their eye.
There's a reason it has its aggression, and if you actually decided to ask and learn what those reasons were, it would make sense. But no, each time, you make a quick judgment on something on the surface, without knowing the real meaning behind it, which is why the deeper in to this dialogue you get, you yourself admit you learn new things prior to your previous knowledge. You claim to know it all,
Style DOES NOT = footwork and tops, Power DOES NOT = flares and windmills, let me explain: style= character of dance,- you can add character into footwork or your airmoves, things like the python or the truck driver, these are some characters that were used early on. powermoves is misunderstood, incorrect term.. power is a style, you can have power style footwork, like air4steps and other certain transitions- airmoves = long combinations of moves which keep you rotating.
and mainstream, each time guys just started only doing power ONLY and barely any dancing, was when at first people were like "ohhhh wow," but each time in those instances, is what caused bboying to die out. And the only times it was brought back to life, was when bboying kept strong on foundation. In Korea, the strongest and most famous bboy crews, are Rivers and Drifterz. Those crews are strong in power,
so...you first say, not knowing anything about the dance, makes one more qualified. Then, you change your position to saying seymour should teach you about the dance, so you can be more qualified. You admit one who knows more about the dance is more qualified, but you also start off saying one who knows more about it is less qualified and bias.
Your bias: you want to see what you think is more difficult physically, which is why you pick the power moves. It looks more dynamic and eye catching. but again, this is a dance, not the circus. The purpose of the circus, is to entertain the crowd, so you judge it on that. The purpose of bboying, is to have the mentality and foundation down, and to mentally make your opponent lose it, and to have the most original moves and techs.
