Kenji López-Alt Talks With Chinese Cooking Demystified for an Hour 

Kenji López-Alt: So nice to finally meet the two of you, i've been -- Chris: FIRST, longyau. Get your wok piping hot...

Three legends! Grabbing a bag of popcorn to watch this

Re: the section at around 44 minutes in about making homemade version of things you would buy in stores. There's a great book called "Make the Bread, Buy the Butter". The author, Jennifer Reese, documents her adventures making all sorts of things from scratch that one would normally buy, from individual components to whole dishes or meals. She gives her opinion on whether it's worth it to make yourself, considering hassle, cost, and how easy it is. Obviously, as Kenji says, "worth it" is definitely a personal decision, and cost and availability certainly vary, but it's all in all a pretty fascinating book.

I love these conversations - it’s like being at a dinner party with smart and interesting people. I love discussions that aren’t just about the recipes but about the myriad of factors that make a dish - history, culture, ingredients, technique.

Two amazing channels coming together and three amazing people. So happy for this!

Chinese Cooking Demystified is one of the most underrated channels! You learn so much about cooking authentic Chinese recipes.

A third possibility for why mapo tofu may be too spicy/salty(other than tolerance and brand variation), how they eat it(or what they eat it with). I learned from having dinner with a friend that ate Thai curry without rice, she thought it was too intense. I explained that leaving out rice for Thai curry is like having mashed potatoes and gravy without mashed potatoes and just drinking a cup of gravy. Yea, it's going to be too much. It's intended to be eaten with relatively bland rice to help flavor it and balance it.

0- My two favorite cooking channels, combined! Best hour on a Sunday in quite some time. 1- For salt levels, when I first started looking at cooking as a hobby, I felt that many recipes were too salty. While I think there is a salt tolerance that builds over time, I feel there is also some importance to what brand and type of salt are being used. 2- I have noticed that fermented/preserved products are better when made at home; particularly when the preservation method relies upon salt and Lactobacillus. Home pickled cucumbers, cabbage (curtido and kraut particularly), and jalapenos/carrots have so far been head and shoulders above the off the shelf items. 3- Chili oil has been highly technique and ingredient dependant for me; my first attempt was using whatever chilis I had at hand (arbol) and other ingredients I felt were appropriate, combined with a lack of understanding of the "proper" technique. It was bitter and went off after a month... My brother-in-law identified some flawed techniques and ingredients, and the result is a longer lasting, much more aromatic product.

This is the greatest crossover event in history.

Just started trying Chinese cooking. And you three are fantastic! I’ve loved everything I’ve tried so far. Keep up the wonderful work. Your tips tricks and equipment recommendations have been so helpful. 👍❤️

AHH ITS TWO OF MY FAV COOKING SHOWS TOGETHER!!!! HELL YES

I have LOVED their channel for years. They taught me so much.

Steph is so cute and I'll never get used to hearing Chris' voice come out of his mouth

Two of my favorite YTers. Both add incredible value to home cooks. Thank you for all your guidance and know how.

We had to put down our Schnauzer earlier this year. Did not expect this excellent conversation to make me very sad. Still got through it. Happy I did.

I'm a fan of both your shows, and grateful for what I've learned from all three of you. As someone who has lived in China and cooked a fair amount of Chinese dishes, I really appreciate Chris and Steph's show. However, would have been nice to hear an introduction of Chris and Steph, and their show, at the beginning.

My favorite episode of Chinese Cooking Demystified was Chinese Mise En Place and Cooking a Full Meal. Now I regularly make "wok soup".

Somehow still the most underrated cooking channel on RU-vid. They’ve improved my Chinese cooking so much

All these wonderful cooks who share... Thank you all

Want to see a get-together between Steph's dog and Kenji's dogs.

Two of my favorite channels together?! Whoa! So nice to see Chris finally! He has a great sense of humor and it is even better when we can see him smile.

This was so lovely! Please do more with them, or this sort of format in general! Thanks Kenji, Stef, and Chris!!!

with regards to the "what condiment/food do you think should make it big outside of 'home country'", taiwanese style chili doubanjiang (broad bean paste in chili) is something I can see making it huge outside of Chinese cuisine. It has a lot of similar notes to spicy sauces like Buffalo hot sauce, yet has this distinct fermented undertone that enhances so many things. It's very good with cheese, tomato sauces, fried vegetables, etc... I felt like I discovered some sort of hidden knowledge after putting it in various things

I don't know why I'm only just getting this recommended but this is great. I didn't anticipate to sit for an hour listening to this but I did and it was worth it! I love Chinese Cooking Demystified - they give so much background and information that even as a Chinese person I never fully understood the theory/history behind. The commitment to showcasing regional cuisines from all around China have also opened my eyes to a lot of different styles and techniques. Love this conversation as well, it's kind of gently enlightening? In a strange way. Like how Steph was talking about home-style foods vs restaurant Chinese food. I never noticed how much certain dishes like hor fun or some stir fries really 'require' that wok hei taste to shine or be considered 'good'. It's a lot of the 'dry stir fry' or stir fry dishes that have a caramelized quality that really benefit from it, and how almost impossible (or exceedingly difficult/unnecessary) it is in home cooking. I wish she had elaborated on the home-style steamed dishes and soups though! Such staples in Cantonese cuisine as well. My faves are always steamed eggs, a really nice delicate steamed fish in soy sauce (or light gingery broth), lotus root soup and old cucumber soup. For Teochew/Chaoshan or Hokkien/Fujian cuisine (that my mother's family is from) my eternal love is kiam chye ark soup (salted preserved vegetable duck soup). Also regarding the point on 'authenticity' - I think a good 'in between' solution would just be to explicitly state if (for example) your food is Southern-style Barbecue or Barbecue Grilled. Same with Italian style vs New York style Vs Chicago style vs Chinese style pizza. And with Roman/Italian Carbonara vs American Carbonara. Or you know just don't call it carbonara but 'creamy bacon pasta'. I think also kind of along the lines of what Steph was saying - there's no real NEED to call it for example 'mapo tofu' which is a very specific thing to many people. There's also frequently been an element of exoticism particularly when referring to 'lesser known' or more 'oriental' cuisines, by calling something only by its name because it sounds cool but having the dish be something completely different. If it's one specific dish that has deep cultural, historical and heritage ties that mean something to the people living there, that people have grown accustomed to/up around, I think people should still acknowledge that even if it's been adapted elsewhere. It has had time to develop characteristics unique to that area and its people, and to discount that is kind of discounting how the dish even came to be? For example in Asia we generally have no problem calling 'milk tea' by a variety of different names to differentiate them all. Thai milk tea. Japanese royal milk tea. Hong Kong milk tea. Singaporean/Malaysian teh. Why can't we do the same for carbonara and barbecue and all those other foods?

One word - Heart Warming. As someone who has gotten into cooking just 8 months ago and has learned so much from both these iconic cooking channels and more, I agree with Kenji that RU-vid has really done wonders in this area. It's not just that you get to learn the "authentic" style or philosophy of cooking from any and every part of the world, but you also have the unique opportunity to witness the stark similarities as well as differences that exist. Big thanks to Kenji, Steph and Chris.

As a vegan, I can confirm that the blistering comes from the eggs in the wrapper. I’ve had a million spring rolls with wheat or rice paper and they never blister.

As always, first we Longyau.

19:00 This used to happen to me at home, I've since added a PC Fan to my onion, potato, garlic and ginger storage spot that prevents moisture from collecting, no more rotting onions!

Most iconic crossover 2020 has seen.

i really thought chris was doing a performative voice in his videos bc it sounds so crisp and professionally read but actually he just sounds like that at all times.

Qing Ming spring rolls are something we eat in Taiwan during the Qing Ming festival around April. (I think it's likely to have come from Fujian, as a lot of so-called Taiwanese families have roots in Fujian 5-6 generations ago). The Qing Ming festival is something akin to Mexico's Day of the Dead, where families will go tomb sweeping to tidy up their ancestors' tombs and to remember their ancestors. The traditional meal we would have after the tomb sweeping is the Qing Ming spring roll (春捲). Usually the grandma or the mom would set out the ingredients on plates on the tables (generally all cooled), and ingredients would include scrambled eggs fried thin, rolled and cut into thin ribbons, thinly julienned small cucumbers, a stewed pork sauce similar to charsow pork, other ingredients as available, and topped with crushed peanuts and a sprinkling of table sugar. You then come home, pick up a soft, very thin flour tortilla-like wrapper (I admit I have no clue what it's made of), and add what you like, wrap it up, and eat it there. I think it's a way to have a full meal when no one's available at home to cook because of all of the tomb sweeping activities. You can generally have some version of this in many night markets in Taiwan.

Awesome, Chinese Cooking Demystified is such an awesome channel!

I found the discussion on authenticity fascinating. Here in CT, there's a killer sushi place called Miya's Sushi, run by the Lai family. Chef Bun Lai, in one of his older menus, really clarified how I think of authenticity. His approach is all about sustainability, and locality to him is a huge part of that. He makes very unconventional sushi, but his approach was "if the Japanese who invented sushi washed ashore in New Haven a few hundred years ago, what kind of sushi would they have made?" Delineating the intent of the cuisine, and honoring the techniques and thought processes of that cuisine, are the keys to authenticity, not necessarily strict adherence to specific ingredients. With that paradigm, inauthentic cooking is pretty easy to spot. Love both these channels! Chinese Cooking Demystified taught me my go to mapo tofu!

Chris kinda saying the quiet part out loud when he says seeing his face in the videos "breaks the immersion"

As a Malaysian, when I introduced my American friends to durian, I only take them to try the sweet variety. The custardy type. Anything more than that for the first try is too much. Also, go to an open air place not a durian bar. That’s like going to try beer for the first time at a specialty beer bar. 😂 know your level

Authenticity to me is tasting foods how people taste it where the food originates from. Authenticity is not the most important thing in the world, but it helps to know how an entire region BEGINS to understand a food and that helps people stay connected and build upon.

Barbecue sauce - I totally get what she's saying with the sharpness and acidity. That was something I felt too watching western cooking videos, the emphasis on acidity that wasn't present in the food tradition I grew up in and I cook in (shanghainese), but it does differ by the region. I went and lived with some family friends for around a month last year who were amazing cooks (former restauranteurs), and they're from Xinjiang and Wenzhou respectively. I found that both Wenzhou and Xinjiang food featured more acidity than shanghainese food and was less sweet. Just some examples, vinegar-dressed salads from Xinjiang food. Not a vinaigrette or some vinegar-based dressing, almost straight vinegar (with salt and other basic seasonings of course). Or a more acidic red-braised fish from Wenzhou. Shanghai red-braised fish also uses a tiny bit of vinegar, but it's not enough to taste it in the final dish. It does help brighten things up a bit, but you wouldn't think there would be vinegar in there. So it does depend on the particular cuisine, but in some parts of China you wouldn't find much acidity in food. I think the concept of red-braise can be interesting for considering authenticity. All over China there are different styles of red-braises, but they're all called the same thing. Maybe the only thing they truly have in common is that they're all braised in soy sauce, but the consistency of the final sauce, the flavour profile, the colour and appearance, and spices can all differ quite a bit. I can't deny anyone the term of red-braise and gatekeep it to the one I'm used to, but I must admit I have something very specific in mind when I hear red-braise and don't really enjoy deviations from that. So I can see why people have such strong reactions to food they consider inauthentic. But this can be easily amended by adjusting your expectations. It's not hard to tack on a qualifier like Shanghainese red-braise, Wenzhou red-braise, or things like American tacos. Nothing wrong with changing things and putting your own take on things. We all cook differently. I imitate my mom when I cook but my red-braise still tastes different to hers. For true authenticity, I think you'd need to almost define a Platonic form for it, and that's just not possible.

This is so wholesome and informative. I think we should elect food nerds as our leaders. Watching this healthy dialog makes me feel optimistic about the future.

baby corn should be banned worldwide. Steph's dog is the best.

That schnauzer is getting so much love

I can confirm what Steph said about that particular brand of canned fish. That stuff is so good as its own dish to pair with white rice

Moo shu wrappers. I discovered this quite by accident years ago, but if you use frozen moo shu wrappers from the store, you'll get the bubbly blistering effect on your spring rolls. My dad also used to own a restaurant and this is what they used, if memory serves.

I can't believe I actually watched the whole thing, great crossover!

Agree about cast iron! It’s too heavy for me! I find it difficult to toss my big, carbon steel wok, too.

This is fantastic. Rarely do I see or read Kenji asking questions. I'd love to see another.

Kenji is so awesome. Gracious, humble yet succinct. And the recipes I've followed have made me a better cook for sure

I would definitely be sitting at this table in the school cafeteria

"seeing me maybe break´s immersion" haha, what a line, keep up the great work!

Two of my favorite shows

I screamed YESSS when Steph was like "canned fish" yeah there's no way to replicate that.

Don't think I've been more excited to click on a RU-vid video before. This was awesome!

So fun! If they ever do this again I'd love to hear Kenji's view on translating Chinese cooking techniques to a Western kitchen. From Steph & Chris I'd like to hear about how Chinese cooking/food culture has changed over the past decade.

Favorite home style Chinese dish that I don’t get at restaurants... I have a lot too! steamed whole fish, ketchup sweet and sour pork, braised duck (pork) and taro, boiled giant shrimp with the ginger-pepper dipping oil... I always request those when I visit my parents!

My three favorite RU-vidrs - great and informative content!

When it comes to a mapo tofu recipe being too salty, I get a little bit of the numbing from the Sichuan peppercorns but my palate translates it as salty. So anything envolving Sichuan pepper ends up a bit salty.

DO MORE OF THESE PLEASE! I love the insight.

What happened to J. Kenji López-Main?

Apropos "Spring rolls, " my partner has always loved spring rolls (in Japan called Haru Maki). Here in San Diego, where we live, because of the huge Fillipino population, (it's usually filled with ground beef and soaked cellophane noodles) we often are forced to make our own spring rolls. The following is what we do: we finely sliver these fresh bamboo shoots, pork, Japanese "hakusai" aka Napa cabbage, some wood ear, if we're feeling luxurious, and the white bart of scallions, and saute until tender. Then we season LIGHTLY with Shaoshing, white pepper, light soy sauce, and "enough " salt. Then we fold up the wrappers and seal with a bit of beaten egg. then we fry them in 350 degree F. oil and drain. we serve with soy sauce and hot mustard for dipping.

40:50 I think it's 10% of people have a savory tooth versus a sweet tooth and I know I am one of those 1s. I don't really care for much sweet desserts or cream sauces in dishes, but put a bag of potato chips or anything else salty in front of me and I would devour them. At least cooking for others, I have learned their seasoning tolerance is much lower than mine, especially with spiciness.

Not expecting this crossover but I'm so glad it happened!

I’d pay real money for a recipe duplicating the egg rolls of my youth..fat, dry, yet steamy insides, very green shredded veg interior as opposed to the flabby, big grey cabbage pieces, quite shredded veg, fragrant w five spice, dark brown blistered skin, it was the Empress restaurant in Spring Branch, a suburb of Houston Tx in the late seventies early eighties..best egg rolls ever..!

I loved this, I would watch this all day

Been waiting for this since Kenji first mentioned you guys!

In regards to saltiness in China verses USA, I watched a RU-vid Laogama taste test video done by Choo and Chin of Ziang's Food Workshop and was surprised Chin thought the Spicy Chili Crisp flavor was not salty enough. Here in the USA, I can eat that right out of the jar but the saltiness makes it impossible to eat too much. Chin responded to my comment about that by letting me know he knew someone who did a comparison of two identical products, differing only in regional distribution (USA vs Europe), and as it turned out the USA version has about 15 more ingredients added compared to its European counterpart. I suspect the doubanjiang here in the USA may also taste much saltier than what is sold in China since salt is used as an antibacterial and a preservative and may be a(n) (un)necessary evil for imports.

This is such an awesome combo, love both your channels!

Love from India Kenji

Egg rolls 蛋卷 (literal translation egg roll) in Cantonese/Chinese culture are hollow sweet and flaky/crispy rolls aka Barquillos that we often buy in a big tin at Chinese grocery stores, and spring rolls are 春卷 (literally translated as spring, as in the season, rolls). Whatever Americans have called "egg rolls" seem to be their own thing separate thing that is most close and similar to spring rolls rather than true egg rolls.

I really really appreciate and enjoy the conversation about authenticity also more or less being about being respectful around food as culture. That's great :)

to be fair that is an enormous variety of BBQ sauces out there. ranging from inedible to delicious

My grandma used to seal her egg rolls with egg yolk. But there’s no egg in the filling.

G'day Stef, Chris & Kenji, in Australia a Sping roll "wrapper" is more like those made with a "Batter" like you get in Sichuan or sometimes as a Popia wrapper - which I think is more "Original" than using an enlarged Chinese (or Japanese) thicker wrapper for Potsticker or Gyoza dumplings. It's kind of "Spongy/stretchy" even though it's very thin, I don't think I've ever had a Spring roll in Aus that has been made with any other type of wrapping like the American Egg roll wraps. Cheers

Appreciate both of your channels! Been trying a bunch of these techniques & ingredients. Asian cooking is my least proficient cooking style. It's been very enlightening.

Possibly my three favorite RU-vid cooks on one screen.

Never clicked on a video so damn fast before LOL

I had the ‘too salty’ problem with cold noodles, and realized I was using too much Sichuan peppercorn, which in large quantities I perceive as salty

You want authentic on a day when you are looking for a match to what you grew up (nostalgia), or are looking for high quality ingredients over fast-food, but that doesnt mean on another day you might be looking for fusion foods because you want to taste something that you've never tasted before. Both can be awesome. Its like on somedays when I'm feeling laid-back, I look forward to hearing Roy Orbison's take on "Pretty Woman", and when I'm energized I want to hear the VH version. Equally I can even enjoy a heavily produced and artificial sounding Bieber track, that's all about the beat, and other times I just want to listen in awe to Adele's vocal range and intensity.

I'm gonna back the durian pizza as well. That thing is extremely delicious and I would recommend people try it if they ever get a chance to travel to China. Also, the puff pastry with durian is another dish I would wholeheartedly recommend.

That lao gan ma on ice cream reminded me of that ice cream parlor in japan that sells natto ice cream crepes. Which tasts surprisingly balanced, like red bean flavor but savory.

I, too, grew up eating Cantonese style American Chinese food. Regarding authenticity, if you’ve never tasted a dish prepared authentically how can you know how authentic your version is? At least when I try to recreate a dish that I grew up with I know exactly how it’s supposed to taste. One of the best lessons that I’ve learned from Kenji, David Chang and other chefs is to be flexible, improvise when necessary, and make sure that it tastes good.

Chinese cooking simplified! Love these folks, a great resource of Chinese technique

I really do wish you guys would begin working on a Chinese cookery book! I'm sure it would be a bestseller! And it would gain you a great dealmore than Patreon, etc..

Oh man, I was in that crazy durian shop in Sinagpore. It felt like such a waste because I just couldn't appreciate it like my in-laws did. Also, great collab, Steph and Chris really have a wonderful channel.

Fantastic Collaboration; 3 fantastic people

Didn’t expect this one! My two favourite channels atm

I really hope you all do get to go fishing in Victoria! Loved this, I hope you do it again soon.

oh thank heavens

This is my first time watching something with Kenji, keep hearing about this guy. Huge fan of Chinese Cooking demystified Burritos are originally Mexican but there are American style burritos.

I get the authenticity point Kenji makes. My favorite local Chinese restaurant serves a great braised Walleye. Walleye isn’t a Chinese fish, but it is out local delicious freshwater fish

In awe of these 3 great people

Not only the menu don’t change in Chinese take out , all the restaurants have the same menu.

Here before kenji

I used to work in downtown San Mateo (like two years go) and I had forgotten about China Bee and the occasional stinky tofu day. I had totally forgotten about that.

When Steph said, "... we do a lot of fishing in Stardew Valley" I felt that

Awesome two research focused channels talking

I already know this is going to be incredible

Two best channels in a mashup?! Heck yeah. Another Long yao!

Excellent! I love it when two of my fave RU-vid follows cross over. BTW I already knew what Chris looks like - there’s that video where he tastes the shaoxing wine. Oooooh, that stuff is nasty to drink! Good for cooking though.

My three favorite cooks get together and do not cook anything? And where is her father?

Egg-rolls are brushed with egg to seal the wrapper. If they don't seal properly, the get inundated with oil. Since I am not currently employed at a Chinese restaurant, I cannot walk to the kitchen to find out, but I'm pretty sure there is no egg in the "wonton skin"--and Kenji I do agree with your assessment that it is a wonton skin of a different dimension.

YESSSSSSSSS FINALLY