i think one of the important and overlooked aspects of what made the Spurs is that Duncan and Popovich balanced each other out in a lot of ways, where Pop would go Pop on everyone while Duncan modulated Pop's extremes with his mellow demeanour. if you have KG in Duncan's spot, I'm not sure how many teammates could have taken two of basketball's greatest psychopaths screaming at them all the time.
You bring up a great point. Also it's not only the screaming by Popovich. Pop has this demeanor where it's like "well what do u think dumbass" when hes trying to show u something he feels is simple and you're not getting it. To some people that might be frustrating to others they'll understand that they're overthinking or not understanding certain things Pop is trying to emphasize. Duncan balanced that out by being approachable. If someone didnt understand what Pop wanted they could always ask Tim Duncan for help and understanding.
Exactly! It’s all about balance and personality’s fitting in the NBA. Look at the success Coach Tibs had in Boston and Chicago playing with dogs like KG, Rondo, DRose, Boozer, Deng etc then look at his lack of success in Minnesota with Wiggins and KAT who Jimmy Butler personally dogged..he was out of Minnesota quickly..meanwhile Phil Jackson was known as the Zen Master..kinda calm but had extremely intense dudes in MJ and Kobe to put that fear into teammates that if they fuck up they would answer to them..
Exactly...not to mentioned KG had Sam Mitchel as a teammate to match his temperament and be a mentor to him on the court as well as Mchale off the court. So the coach did not have to have that type of disposition. I responded to a similar comment that says He would’ve had Pop, David Robinson, Avery Johnson etc...those individuals do not have the necessary disposition to reach him.
Mmmm idk Minnesota KG was a monster and he’s too dedicated to the game and works too hard to where pop can’t coach him despite his volatile personality. Do they win 5? Maybe not but they definitely win at least a couple.
The real question I wanna know is how in the hell was KG in a full 200% sweat before the game? Score is 0-0 and KG looks like hes ready to start Double Overtime.
Duncan also knew when to turn up the intensity. Simmons explains this in his book. Garnet was always intense whereas Duncan saved it it for the playoffs when his team needed him to throw up a 33 pt, 15 reb game.
@@thadonjuan2339 No, he couldn’t score 40. Fair enough you can make that claim if he won 5 titles but winning one you can’t say he didn’t want to score, he needed to and couldn’t. Love KG, but he could have never been the number one offensive option on a true contender, Duncan was 4 times
KG coming up with David Robinson, Greg Popovich, Avery Johnson, Steve Kerr I think he would've had a ton of great mentors. 1 of the greatest Centers all time, 2 future head coaches as teammates, and 1 of the Goat Coaches lol
@@stephenasunnamedsource2943 that sounds good and true but with the exception of Coach Pop, the others you mentioned were not with the Spurs much longer after Timmy was drafted. Robinson retired after year 2 I believe and Avery wasn’t there much longer either. Further I am not sure if any of those individuals you mentioned had the necessary disposition to reach KG. Considering his temperament. He had a temper and was intense and needed someone to match that. Pop would obviously I am not sure the others you mentioned would. Sam Mitchell got in his face pretty hard by his own admission. Slapped him around literally lol. Not sure those dudes you mentioned would do that.
I so vivdly remember some matchups between Dirk and KG, and how badly Dirk schooled him. To say KG is not far behind Duncan is a bit of stretch. Dirk is most certainly better as KG, when it comes to the best PF of all time..
That’s what I love hearing. Tired of the Duncan disrespect out here. Everyone around them says him and kg are style wise very similar but their personalities is what set them apart just by a hair. U fair great with either or but Duncan had just a little something in his personality that makes him a bit more versatile as a teamates. But talent wise they are 1 and 1a. I hate when people make it seem like Duncan was only great because of the team he was on as if he wasn’t putting up quadruple doubles in finals. Dude was a menace and so was kg. Neither is truly better than the other. Just two guys that are one in the same who just had opposite ends of the stick. U move one and he POSSIBLYZ could’ve been as successful but we don’t know how the personalities wouid coincide. And Duncan on Minnesota would’ve been statistically dominant and possibly even more successful than kg. But once again that’s a MAYBE, not a fact.
Such a great subject for these 2 to discuss. I’m a long suffering Knicks fan but have always loved KG’s intensity. He was an absolute superstar for a decade or more. Glad he got a ring
Boston is a great city and has great devoted fans. They do talk about KG like he won multiple titles. If Ray Allen didn't get traded KG never would've played for Celtics and promptly turned on Ray after he signed with Heat. One title with Celtics? Aren't they the Yankees of the NBA according to Boston fans?
There's no way Phil Jackson sat there taking an L in the Finals as a motivational strategy. He told JM that like he wasn't the goddamn coach. He's taking that L too. Clearly he hated it, hence the poppycock story.
Nah I don't agree the difference between KG and Duncan is that. Duncan didn't even speak to rookies, even as good as Parker in the first season.... What makes that any better or worse than KG rattling cages and seeing what they were made of? I think Duncan was better, but not because of that.
Simply put who sets the better culture in the team. Let us say TD was drafted by the Wolves in 1995 meaning Highschool to pro and KG stayed 4 years in college then to the pros in 1997, things could have gone differently, like the Wolves did not trade the their 1996 draft pick Ray Allen for Stephon Marbury, man that would be mean duo with a peaceful culture in Minnesota. Garnett would have been a instant hit in SA and maybe also won the 1999 title. But 2000 - 2003 was the Lakers time, KG would have to deal with an aging teammates in SA and do a carry job which he is capable of but not enough to go over the hump, while TD has a true star in Allen and can surely compete with the lakers at that time and oh yeah TD can carry a team much better than KG.
You end up telling a lot of stories why Duncan was better. KG hurt himself and the team with his crazyness. And imo Tim had a better offensive game, KG wasnt your gotoguy for the last shot on a championshipteam.
Prime Duncan is better. Longevity wise Duncan is better. As a teammate Duncan was better. Young Duncan was better than young Garnett. Old Duncan was better than old Garnett. Not to say KG wasn't great. He was. Yes,they were close...maybe even very close but TD is just better. Tim has a very unique personality where he can get along wish Rasho Nesterovic just as good as with Stephen Jackson. That is very valuable considering how man teammates you change trough your career. I would love to play with Kevin,but he can rub a lot of guys the wrong way. While I appriciate his passion,going 100 % all the time is not always the right thing to do. This whole thing that Duncan was so great becasue of Pop...the more I see from Pop since Duncan retired,the less and less I belive in that theory. I think it might be the other way around...The only reason Duncan didn't absolutly dominate all the time is becaue he knew very well that basketball is a team sport and in order to play winning basketball,even the 9th,10th man have to be able to contribute. You don't achive that by giving them a chance here and there but it happens if you do it trough the entire season,where you don't skip steps...Duncan allowed that to happen. But he controled the defense,the rebounding,the chemistry,made sure the ball was moving,poping around,he was that cone on the elbows,he made sure that culture was never in question. And when you needed a bucket,he would get it. Go watch that last series vs OKC. Duncan was still scoring when needed even at that age,on one leg..on his way out. He understood angles on both ends of the floor like very very few people ever did.
Go watch Tim Duncan early 2000s all star games he was more talented than people give him credit for..... he was a top 10 player from the first day he stepped in the nba for 16 years straight
You must be a little slow. Garnett could do absolutely everything on the basketball court. Was a infinitely better defensive player then Dirk and his offensive numbers are on par with him as well. Man had a handle and was super athletic too. He is better than Dirk and of course duncan is better but KG is number 2. Man played with bums for his whole career until Boston and took Minnesota to the western conference finals with bums.
@@matthewweiss8579 and Nowitzki won a championship with zero Allstars on the roster against Wade Lebron Bosh :) KG has handle my ass 🤥 Nowitzki was faaaar better player on offense
@@matthewweiss8579 Dirk has 46 post season games scoring over 30 points. Kevin Garnett only had 9. Dirk was miles better than KG on the offensive end of the game.
Please make the Bill and Jackie Mac pods at least a weekly thing. Jackie is an absolute legend and fountain of NBA knowledge and lore. Best Ringer hire of all time. Good job by you, Bill!
You could not replace Duncan with KG. Look how he performed in the playoffs. KG shoots long jumpers when the game slows down in a half court setting when his team needs BUCKETS. Duncan posts up and hits it off the glass. That's the BIG difference. You can go watch them play in the playoffs in their primes and see KG getting destroyed by his contemporaries while Duncan destroys all of his. Not even joking. Go watch games and pull up box scores of them vs Dirk, Shaq, Web, etc and KG comes up small while Duncan comes out on top vs. all those guys. It's really quite remarkable how underrated Duncan is. I have him top 3-5 all time. Garnett is more top 15-20 range at BEST.
I was saying this before KG went to boston. I live in Minneapolis so I am bias but still the gap is not a big gap. As a younger man it made me think TD was overrated. Then 2013 and 2014 happened. After that it was clear to me how great he really was. The west had all the PF in the 00s TD was always on the spurs, KG on the wolves, and Dirk with the Mavs. I'm sure I'm forgetting someone but those are the big 3.
Like there saying swap the teams early in there careers and things probably stay the same. Duncan would be stuck on the Timberwolves with no rings til he left and Garnett with Pop, Parker and Ginobili wins multiple rings so the gaps definitely not big if there's any gap at all. Duncan wouldn't have turned Minnesota into a championship team those years despite how people love to revere him as the greatest pf ever.
I love KG. But to say it's debatable between KD and Timmy, is just not true. Duncan was a special and better player than Garnett. He also had a very unique personality, which enabled him to adapt and play with anyone.
They don't have equal cases but it is debatable. Swap their positions and there's next to no chance that Duncan has even half of Garnett's rings. Garnett literally had a single year where he and his teammates were healthy, and he won - well past his prime. His astounding passing and spacing and help defense would scale well next to other superstars, he just spent his entire prime on an atrociously managed team.
@@marco5030 yeah, I heavily disagree. There is not a single part of KG's game, outside of pure athleticism, that I would take over Duncan. Not trying to shit on KG, cause he was a beast and definitely was surrounded by a crappy organization for much of his career, but he had his flaws as well. You really think KG would be cool averaging 18-20 points and letting 2 foreign players that nobody knew/cared about, (Tony and Manu) run the offense? Absolutely not. Tim was the unselfish, dominant, perfect piece to a dynasty. As great as KG was, he could never do that.
@@therzathegza there are arguments but you're not making them. Garnett was absolutely unselfish, it's comical that you think he wasn't okay letting teammates score more, that's exactly what he did. His shooting and passing were both markedly ahead of Duncan, Duncan wasn't bad at either but Garnett was elite for a big man at those skills. Check out their Backpicks profile, the guy actually goes into depth and uses advanced stats.
@@marco5030 y’all can’t use KGs lack of teammates as a crutch cuz as you just heard in the video KG ran teammates away. KG also took huge record breaking contracts in Minnesota..Tim took pay cuts to keep players around. As they just said in the video..KG had 3 rbs in a game 7..Tim Duncan could NEVER..! He elevated his game in the playoffs..even at the age of 40 in his last playoff game in 2016 he put up 19 pts..the dude really put up a quadruple double in a close out finals game in 03..no disrespect to KG but Timmy is just better..
Looking back now, besides Ray Allen, those late 2000s Celtics teams are pretty unlikeable. They only won ONE championship and they talk as if they’re Larry’s Celtics that won RINGS. They also still act like scorned lovers over Ray Allen bolting. In the meantime, Ray Allen is living his best life and not even thinking of those clowns. KG also seems like a jackass on and off the court. I wonder if he has any (actual) friends. I doubt it.
I’m bias KG is my favorite player after MJ retired this guy was all fire and people who don’t like it just don’t understand what it takes to win at a high level. Did you guys also not like the last dance? Did you ever see the interview he did with big John Thompson and he’s crying because he’s getting all the accolades and money but they aren’t winning and he wanted to win so badly! Or when the T’ wolves wanted to move him to rebuild and he refused because he wanted to win there! Look at KG’s stats on the T’wolves he basically lead them in everything and guarded 1-5. T Mac said KG was the toughest person who guarded him! That’s a hall of fame shooting guard in Kobe’s era saying and sf/pf guards him the toughest!
Bully is a poor choice of words. Bullies don't want reciprocity. When men work together we fuck with each other. Sometimes you are dishing it out. Other times you're on the receiving end. It's how we bond.
I thought that was interesting about Duncan being able to understand better.. This man has a degree in psychology, for goodness' sakes, and even was involved and listed as a co-author for a chapter for a psychology book for Wake Forest. "Blowhards, Snobs and Narcissists: Interpersonal Reactions to Excessive Egotism". Look it up, folks.
Tim Duncan in 2013 finals was leading the Spurs in points and rebound and probably would’ve won FMVP of they won. KG in 2013 was in Brooklyn struggling so they wouldn’t have won in 2014
I doubt that Parker and ginobili wouldn't have blossomed like they did Duncan. Pop was that competitive psycho that pushed them to the limit and being a lifelong Spurs fan its obvious those guys needed support and encouragement to have a healthy balance. If you listen to TP and Manu they rave about how Duncan on the court was the pinnacle of a superstar but his unselfishness as teammate and treating everyone on the Spurs like it was their team was his greatest attribute.
Born and raised in Minnesota and moved to Minneapolis right after high school so I might be a little bias but KG was a more talented basketball player then Timmy. It's splitting hairs, KG didn't even need to use the backboard to make his shot go in the bucket. Best turn around fade away there ever was or will be I use to practice for hours because KG. We called him the passion in minny. Knowone tried harder or cared more about the game then Kevin
Why does KG have 6x less the 30 point playoff games Duncan had if he was more talented and skilled? Versatile? Yeah KG was, but Duncan knew all he needed was to be the best rim protector in the NBA and one of the best post scorers to win whilst KG was busy shooting jumpers and guarding the 3 point line. Come crunch time KG never raised his game like Duncan, KG literally had 1 playoff game of note (game 7 vs the Kings).
I love Jackie Mac but to say KG and Duncan we’re CLOSE in comparison is simply not true. Especially If we’re basing the comparison and our evaluation on the POSITION they played at Power Forward. KGs skillset was closer to a small forward than a Power as the positions entails. He did not and does not have the post game Duncan had and for me that’s what separates them. Duncan had nearly every move in his aresnal whereas KG post moves basically consisted of turn around jumpers and face ups. Sure KG had a “better” jump shot but my point is, the Power Forward position and Center positions would demand an individual to have a repertoire of post moves. Not anymore obviously the “stretch four” has BECOME the four now. So post moves are no longer used.
Dirk Nowitski had 46 post season game scoring over 30 points. Tim Duncan had 36 Kevin Garnett only had 9. KG was nowhere as good as Dirk or Tim Duncan. KG only won his 1 chip when he had the luxury of being the 3rd leading scorer for the Celtics and still being able to win.
KG was an all-time defender (far superior to Dirk) and had NO help in his prime, so defenses were able to gameplan to shut him down offensively. KG was unselfish and sacrificed his personal stats for the betterment of the team in Boston.. All 3 players are all time greats
@The Ultimate Dirk Nowitski had 6 different seasons where he finished in the top 20 in the NBA in defensive winshares. People only call Dirk a bad defender because he was white.
@@Marlowe10100 From 1995 until 2007 Kevin Garnett only led his franchise out of the first round once. The T-Wolves got bounced every year because Kevin Garnett was not a dominant offensive threat. All those rebounds, assists, blocks and steals means nothing when you can't score more than 30 points in a playoff game.
@@OGPND KG had plenty of help. Kevin Garnett only had 9 post season games (in a 20 year career) where he scored over 30 points. The biggest reason Minnesota could never get over the hump was that Kevin Garnett could not be relied to score in clutch moments.
KG more all around skilled than Duncan. Duncan had Hall of Fame teammate and Coach all in their primes. When KG finally got a HOF type coach and teammate, the results differed.
The results were one title and his teamates were better than ginobli and Parker ever were. There isn’t a thing kg did better than Duncan. Duncan was a lethal scorer, an equal defender and equal passer, and was incredibly clutch. None of those guys were hofers before they played under Duncan. Was pop a hofer before Duncan? Did any one of those guys average 35 and 14 with 4 ast and 3 blks a game in a finals? Did those guys have to carry the load while tim sat in the sidelines? Were any of those guys serious mvp candidates at any point in their run? Was David Robinson the same David Robinson from the early 90s? Did those guys when anything before or after Duncan retired? If I remove Duncan from those teams and place in Orlando where he almost went , are manu and Tony looked at the same way? The answer to the question is NOOOO. Duncan was the middle man. The engine. The reason why the spurs are who they are. There is no hof teamates or greatest coach of all time moniker without Tim Duncan. Last time I checked when the game was on the lien, 9 out of 10 times the man with the ball in his hand was TIM DUNCAN. Stop the disrespect and watch a damn game. There was years where Duncan held those teams together on his own individual dominance because those so called hof teammates and coach had no game plan besides give it to Duncan and move out the way. I swear some of y’all never actually watched Duncan play.
Outside of Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan was the most dominant low post player I've ever seen. KG was just an average scorer. Duncan was way better than Garnett.
