I swear I stay learning something new everyday from you guys...you really help in making me and other Umpires more knowledgeable about the game...thanks
I was watching this and laughing the whole time they analyzed the rule on this play. Runner's lane means nothing on this play. No throw, no runner's lane,
It amazes me just how little announcers actually know. Sure, they know some, we all do. But when it comes to legit textbook rules and definitions, they are just as clueless as we usually are.
Benefit of the doubt: I think they DO know. ... More often these days, it's their bias that gets in the way. i.e. Yankee's announcers, call against the Yankees, not a universally-known rule: umps must have gotten it wrong. ... 🙄 Always best to be in favor of your audience's team. 🙄🙄🙄
@@davej3781 As a Dodger fan growing up, I was spoiled by listening to Vin Scully. He's a proper broadcaster first, before anything else. Certainly he'd cheer on his favorite team, but rarely at the expense of explaining to his audience why a call here or there didn't go the Dodgers' way. The game AND its rules ALWAYS came first. Wish more would follow his lead, instead of playing the role of fanatic proxy.
I do appreciate that, mostly in the NFL and sometimes NCAA Football, they call in actual rules experts to describe why a call has gone the way it did. But mostly, that's just during the replays or for major penalties. Each official, referee or umpire makes dozens of decisions in every play that few observers or announcers are aware of.
From little league to the big league... The rulebook is never ever truly taught.. I attended a baseball camp where many professional baseball players were the coaches whom taught... And only fundamentals were really taught...
Thank you for this site! It is amazing how little MLB announcers know about umpire mechanics, rules and casebook situations. This misinformation or #Fakenews leaks down to college & high school levels. Fans and players repeat the falsehoods. Locally, Jim Palmer almost weekly says "...we all know tie goes to the runner..." each week on MASN-TV. They also frequently say "foul tip" for foul ball, and "interference" for obstruction.
Mechanically you read if the runner avoided the tag by reading if the fielder took a step and a reach in an attempt to tag the runner. This was a step and a lunge. It was close and this may just go back to the umpires not grabbing the shitting end of the stick.
Genuine question. Has there ever been a play at the college, minor, or major league level in which the runner's lane applies and the batter-runner goes too far to the *right* of the lane?
I've had it when the batter-runner swerved right to interfere with a throw from the catcher on strike three that got away towards the first base dugout
The rule is simple, what is complicated is making sure that you're talking about the correct situation. For another example the difference between the line drive being caught by the pitcher but tearing the glove off his hand or the pitcher throwing his glove at the ball. One is legal the other isn't but both involve the glove and ball being separate from the hand. The base lines approaching 1st only apply if you might be in the way of a throw, you can run inside fair territory if the throw is going to come from a middle infielder since you won't be in the way.
Think of it this way; There are 2 requirements to call a running lane violation. 1. The runner is out of the lane 2. The runner interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base. If both of these are true, the runner is out. If either is not true, the runner is not out.
I think he left his lane *after* the tag attempt - that lane closes down on the base, and the B/R did not close fast enough - he may be able to be 3' out for a moment, but not for long - it quickly becomes 2', 1', then a maximum of one step - that's his lane. I'd have probably called him safe if I was positioned the same way, but looked at the PU for a signal that he went too far - U1 is a little straight-lined on that call. He should be working that angle a little more sharply on a tag play.
I’ve always wondered in a play like this if the runner could have gone much farther to his right earlier in his trip to first. What I mean is if he anticipates that there will be a tag play coming up then he could adjust his base path much more to the right BEFORE the tag attempt begins. Which would allow him to go 3 feet even further to the right if he wanted. I’d be curious in real time to see when an umpire judges that a tag attempt has started. Because a smart runner could anticipate a tag that is going to happen and move his base path early.
The basic answer is yes, but at a certain point of diverting from the direct line between home and first, you've gone so far out that the defense can just make a throw to first for the out.
There is a trick play (runners on corners, less than 2 outs) that involves R1 going essentially into shallow right field before a pitch, which sets a crazy (but legal) base path for R1 to 2B when a pickoff is attempted. Meanwhile, R3 is supposed to come home during the crazy rundown that R1 triggers while in his wacky established base path.
I've asked this question before and nobody seems to know. When are you considered beyond 3 feet? Entire body is beyond 3 feet? One foot? Both feet? Let's say for example in this play the runner's lane actually is the 3-foot limit. Both feet are out, but head and shoulders are still breaking the plane. Would he be out of the baseline?
The batter appears to be running almost straight down the foul line until he nears the player with the ball. I think picking up the video at the time of the tag attempt is deceiving.
Don't get me wrong here the announcers should definitely be familiar with the rules, but it almost seems, from watching quite a few of these videos recently, that it is more ok to scrutinize the broadcasters for their bad interpretation of rules than it is to scrutinize the umpires for their poor officiating. I've seen a number of times now this channel scrutinize broadcasters more harshly than umpires even though the umpires have a more critical job on the baseball field. I might be way off base on this but Idk it's just something I've noticed since finding this channel
Normally that's because most the time the umpires are actually right, little known fact I guess. It's the people who don't know the rules that bitch and the announcers not knowing the rule caused a social media situation where everyone's like "here we go with the bad umpiring again" when they actually got the call correct.
@@amolleybaseball very rarely are they not actually correct. Many people seem to misunderstand the amount of training these guys went through and constant training to keep the job. You don't think they hear it from their boss when they fuck up obvious calls? This year is no different than any other year since replay review in 2014, the media and the tv "strike zone box" makes every shmuck sitting on the couch think they could call it better than the dudes actually on the field.
So the runner could run 20 feet foul if he's anticipating a tag attempt. Obviously he doesn't want to go too far because that would make his path longer, but it's surprising you rarely see runners go much more than a few feet foul.
A runner could run anywhere on the field really, there just usually isn't a reason to because it's either going to be a force play and you're just making your path to the next base longer for no reason, or if you're running away from someone that has the ball, like when Adrian Beltre ran into the outfield to avoid the tag attempt being attempted, he's still out.
@@richpaul6806 Yeah, they only seem afraid to go out there when avoiding a tag. Maybe they're afraid the ump will take an overly strict view of when the path is established.
@@Greasyspleen that doesn’t matter. The 6 foot path is established the second a tag is attempted. From the runner to the bag they are going towards. If they are in right field the bag path is from right field to the bag
"Pay no attention to the line, it doesn't apply." But since the lane is 3 feet wide and a runner is allowed to go three feet from his line to avoid a tag, it does provide a handy way of telling if he deviated more than three feet.
@@davej3781 Yes, but you're missing the point. The RL gives you a handy visual cue of what three feet it. Regardless of when the tag started, you can still use it as a gauge. Did you not notice that was _exactly_ what Gil did at 4:09 to show that he didn't go more than three feet?
@@UltimateBreloom You're not understanding what I said-it's a handy way to measure three feet, regardless of when the tag started. It's exactly what Gil did at 4:09.
The runner established his path as the chalk of the running lane. His feet never left the clay of the runner's lane, so there is no way this was a 3 foot violation.
Not disagreeing with you, but I think 5.09(b)(1) is easier to understand if you think of how it applies to the basepaths between 1st and 3rd that (a) aren't delineated other than the edge of the dirt outfield, (b) are much more likely to be variable and not even necessarily straight (a runner will take a rounder basepath if they anticipate going extra bases). The interpretation may be perceived differently here (even if the rule still applies) because the line to 1st is stronger and players running to 1st are more likely to be taking the most direct path.
I think its the rule that's all fracked up no matter what kind of play it is if I'm the runner I have to stay between the 2 white lines but no that's to logical, Everyone have a great day
Can you explain this one? I tried finding the original with various angles but not sure I am providing the right terms for the search. Did Aoki run out of "base path"? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HRqpTxqjT68.html
Commenters say the wrong things like this then youth coaches take it as gospel and teach the youth the wrong things I’ve seen my kids being taught it’s a baseline and even a foot and a half out they call them out and the coaches scold them for it.
It’s frustrating for sure to listen to broadcasters screw up the rules. But I think it’s a bit much to expect the average regional cable color guy to know the intricacies of base path vs base line. Heck I’ve seen trained umpires at the high school level that still don’t understand the difference between obstruction and interference.
No sense blaming the ignorant broadcasters........when these rarities happen, we all learn the rules and face it....half the comments here are wanna be experts. Now we know.
Bro idk what you are saying and you're being biased for the umpire. The rule states "when the tag attempt occurs" Do NOT tell me the runner didn't move 3+ feet outta the baseline when DJ attempted the tag.. There's clearly 3+ feet between the runner's established basline at the tag and ending up baseline. Stop being biased for the umps, they SUCK this year.
If you watched the video, you would know that repeating "base line" in your critique is going to get you ignored for not knowing the applicable rule and the terms associated with it.
@@davej3781 No. They are practically interchangable in this focused context, because the prefix "base" should be enough for you to infer what he's talking about
No. The runner's body was over or just to the left of the foul side of the runner's lane when the tag attempt began. His body never got to the edge of the grass even after the tag missed. The runner's lane is three feet wide and serves as a reference for three feet. The gap between the right side of the lane and the grass is clearly less than three feet, and the runner didn't even cover that distance.
