That's probably right. He's in the NBA hall of fame but only had one move that other NBA players couldn't figure out. But you would have blocked the shit out of him. Good, thoughtful analysis.
The reason NBA defenders kept letting him "lay the ball in" is because McHale also had a sick jumper, and they had to respect that when defending him. If his jumper was awful, he wouldn't fool anybody.
ZhangtheGreat Well stated. Mchale’s fade away jumper was smooth and accurate. And with those arms as long as stilts, exceptionally difficult to stop that agile ade away.
Olajuwon?? He was good, but his low post was usually that fade away jump shot. Big game James Worthy had the best post moves easily. Mchale had a 7 foot 4 inch wingspan. Worthy was 6'9 with a 7 foot span, but was the fastest first step maybe ever. Young people need to see James Worthy video here on You Tube. Him and Magic were silk. Worthy used to eat Boston up.
Yeah That's my era. Actually a little after. He was always one of my favorite's Phi Slama Jamma, McHale had the best post moves in those days. Hakeem came a couple years later with Ewing. When Houston went to the finals against Boston, McHale did his thing. Houston was the twin towers, but Boston dominated the inside. Hakeem's #1 shot was is his 15 foot fade away. Of course he had great post moves. He was 6'10 maybe 6'9 in his socks. He relied on his jumping ability and Athleticism. But to put him even in the top 5 centers is crazy.
I looked at the Box score on Goggle just now, for Boston Houston final. Remember Parrish is old. Anyway, it went 6 games McHale avg 29 points. Hakeem 19 points. Hakeem guarded McHale. Sampson guarded Parrish. Some minutes went to an old Bill Walton that came out of retirement. That should say something.
MrFraiche not true. He had hooks, double up and under step throughs, pump fakes, baseline spin move dunks. Fuck outta here saying he just mastered "two moves"
actually Mccale had about 20 moves, I'm a 80's Lakers fan, and he drove me crazy. Unstoppable. They always talked about Bird, but this guy was always good in the big games.
I never realized how good this guy was until recently. He was excellent on the defensive end as well. Career averages: 17.9 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 1.7 BPG, .554 FG, .798 FT. Very underrated
Career averages are really unrepresentative of both bird and mchale. "McHale was never better than the 1986-1987 season, setting career highs in scoring (26.1) and rebounding (9.9). He also became the first player in NBA history to shoot sixty percent or better from the field (60.4%) and eighty percent or better from the free throw line (83.6%) in the same season. McHale was named to the All-NBA First Team, was named the NBA's best defensive player by the league's coaches, and finished fourth in the Most Valuable Player voting behind Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, and Larry Bird." at his peak he was amazing. the broken foot really diminished him.
Kind of surprised anyone would say McHale is underrated. He is typically touted as the greatest power forward of all time when it comes to low post moves. He was named to the league's 50 greatest players list ever in 1996, despite coming off the bench for 5 years (he started less than 80 of his first 400 games, due to the great depth of the Celtics). This shows that his peers, the coaches of his era, and the media all recognize his greatness to look past his time as a 6th man. Despite playing less than 30 mpg early in his career, McHale blocked almost 600 shots in his first 3 seasons. He is top-10 all-time in FG% and he is of course in the Hall of Fame. Charles Barkley called him "the best player I played against because he was unstoppable offensively, and he gave me nightmares on defense."
John Dayton among younger people he's way underrated, or those who look at just his career scoring average and know nothing about his injuries, his incredible shooting percentages, his 55 point game and how he was universally considered the premier PF of his time, how he guarded all 3 front court positions. Karl Malone was great and amazingly durable, but peak vs peak McHale was better, he was on balanced teams that spread the ball around so never had gaudy averages. And his peak was the absolute golden age of the NBA. His 87 season is about as good as you can have as a PF, but when your fellow 1st team all NBAers are Bird, Magic, Jordan and Hakeem it's tough not to be a bit overlooked!! Bonus points for two awesome Cheers appearances!!
Not one shot out of 8 ft - because he's unstoppable inside 8 ft. Not one dunk - because he didn't need to. Same moves over and over - because they worked. Best part is - he makes it look easy! Sign of a great player.
This guy isn't in McHale or Hakeem's class. But remember Al Jefferson? He had an old style, big man's back to the basket game in the paint. He was very effective for several years. He usually averaged between 17 to 20 a game. Just saying he had a somewhat similar style to Hakeem and McHale in how he produced.
kids be like: how can they not defend this? or did they study him at all?? remember: what you see here is perfection of post moves. no matter how study this, you can't defend Mchale. it will only lead to you overthinking what is he gonna do. he is 8ft from the rim, when he pump fake and you react, it's over. when he fakes and you dont react, it's also over. that's it. he perfected it so much that it messes your mind just thinking how are you gonna defend it. plus his height is a factor.. he is 6'11" and he is 8ft from the rim.. highly efficient shots.
Yep exactly. The key to having the perfect post moves is to always have a counter move. Throw that up fake and if they don't bit on it then you should have a go to move to use in case they don't bite.
Legend. McHale was very cerebral too; he did so many technical things like a push or shove at just the right time to gain position or cause the defender to be a step slower. He was a fierce competitor, imposed his will, hard-nosed, could get under the opponent's skin. He knew how to change the momentum of the game and grind it for a needed basket. McHale could play on any all-time team. Player's like McHale transcend skill and athleticism; they find ways to win. They're great at adjusting, finding weaknesses and exploiting them.
True. Though it also helps if that player is 6'10 with LONG arms, like McHale. Greatest assortment of moves and fakes of any low-post player, that's for sure.
I'm 52 I never saw anyone use this but Kev at least not the way or as much as he did. Kev was a beast down low! I hate this new 3pt shooting big man NBA,yo get back to power ball! Timmy D and KG are gone we still have Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol, but the post game is leaving us...and for all you critics I know yes Marc shoots threes but he added that recently...
mookeychase0907 It seems like most post scorers in the NBA right now can shoot 3s. Marc Gasol, Nikola Jokic, and Brook Lopez added his last year and has been deadly
McHale was NBA all-defensive 1st team three times, all-defensive 2nd team three times. One of the greatest post defenders of all time. Great on both ends of the floor.
McHale was one-of-a-kind. He was one of the three most advanced great college big men of all time. Bill Walton and Tim Duncan were the other two. I couldn't believe it when the Celtics drafted him. To get Larry Bird AND Kevin McHale was unbelievable good fortune.
Those two years Auerbach probably made the most masterful GM moves of all time. First drafting Bird with the #6 pick knowing he was going to stay in school another season and risking that he would sign after his college season ended and before the next draft. Then, holding the #1 draft pick and knowing that Golden State with the third pick really wanted Joe Barry Carroll and Utah wanted Darrell Griffith (Dr Dunkenstein). Auerbach acted like he thought the world of Carroll, even though he thought he was a stiff. So, he talked Golden State into trading Robert Parrish to the Celtics, in return for swapping their draft pick. GS took Joe Barely Cares and the Celtics took the player they really wanted, Kevin McHale with the 3rd pick.
It seems like everyone looks at the McHales and Olajuwons of yesteryear and think, "if only Ibaka or Howard learned those moves, they would be unstoppable down low". In reality, those moves and the footwork involved actually aren't that hard to learn. Howard spent a several days with Olajuwon and paid a princely sum to learn those moves, and was able demonstrate his prowess with them to a degree. Yet, he still looks rather stiff and uncoordinated (though stats say he's exceptional down low. In the end, pretty moves aren't the end-all-be-all of low post effectiveness, but rather just putting the ball in the basket). IMO, most fluid big men can learn the footwork and countermoves and have them down pat, but still won't be able to pull them off reliably in-game. Why? Shooting. Don't just look at McHale's defenders biting on his fakes, but think about why they bite on those fakes. The reason they bite on the fakes is that both McHale and Olajuwon were incredible shooters down low. McHale, especially, was totally automatic with either a righty jump hook, righty turnaround jumper, or righty fadeaway jumper (he never used his left hand, but it obviosuly didn't matter). Because of how well McHale could shoot in the low post, his defenders really had no choice but to respect his fakes and bite on them even though they were well aware that those fakes were coming. Based on that, if I were to teach a big man these moves, I would first teach him to shoot hooks, turnaround jumpers, and fadeaway jumpers, and then have him practice those shots against a defender until each of them becomes automatic. Afterwards, the footwork, fakes, and countermoves will all fall in pretty easily because his defender will have no choice but to respect them. Were you to teach a big man the footwork and countermoves without teaching him how to shoot first, the big man might be able trick his defender once or twice with those moves. But eventually, his defender will realize the big man can't shoot. The defender will then allow the big man to shoot (and mostly miss) his hooks and turnaround jumpers, or stay planted to the ground while the big man fruitlessly attempts his pump fakes. The reason why Dwight Howard doesn't look like Hakeem isn't that he doesn't have the moves, but rather because he can't really shoot. He just doesn't have the touch, as we can see from his stiff running hooks and terrible free throw shooting. After learning from Hakeem, Amar'e Stoudemire is actually respected in the low post because of his shooting ability down low combined with those post moves. Too bad his knees have betrayed him just as he finally learned those moves. Can Serge Ibaka with his sweet mid-range shot and free throw shooting learn these moves? First, he needs to learn to shoot reliably in the low post first with hooks, turnaround jumpers, and fadeaway jumpers. Then, after he learns the footwork, fakes, and countermoves, I say why not? You also have to be stronger and more willing to take punishment to play in the low post nowadays because with the post-Shaq rules, low post defenders are now allowed to beat the crap out of low post players. Before Shaq, the rules were more stringent and allowed big men to catch the ball relatively unmolested in the low post.
Best informed comment I have read in a long time. Great fakes only work when the defender has no choice but to respect them. I get tired of all those analysts saying that Dwight Howard & Company should learn from Olajuwon and Mc Hale playbook. Of course, they had exceptional footwork at their size, but all those moves relied on the fact that if you let them shoot, even when sitting in their face, they would drain it on you almost every single time. Not many big men in the game today have that efficiency.
urbananalrapist Wade's not a great shooter and they still eat his fakes. It has to do with selling the fake and then being fluid in to your next move. McHale already knew before you left your feet he was going by you, same as Wade.
jcash78 The more I learn about the game, the more I appreciate both aspects of the game. Being able to make a shot at any point and any position is important to sell the fakes, but the actual footwork, body positioning, fluid moves, and shimmies are also highly important in getting open shots, or going from a good shot to a better shot. The point is that both aspects are important in selling the fake. Wade may not be a great shooter, but he's clearly a good enough shooter to get his defenders to respect his fakes. He also has a multitude of finishes close to the basket (floaters, bankers, bank shots) that he can make at a good clip. There's a reason that his defenders contest his shots from midrange inward. Contrast that with, say, Rondo, Rubio, and other players with awful jump shots, and why they're often left wide open even from the midrange. OR, contrast it with a big man who can't finish consistently near the basket with jumpers, push shots, or hook shots. See why they can't sell their fakes: it's not just due to their lack of good footwork/fluid moves (though that doesn't help, certainly).
urbananalrapist you are right. Kobe said it best when he said players today are more concerned with being famous than actually perfecting their craft. Bird, Magic and them were perfectionists. McHale was a technician. Jordan worked relentlessly to develop his jump shot and fade away. Kareem had the unblockable shot. Players today could learn these moves but they choose not to. Instead relying solely on athletic ability. When LeBron was in Miami he developed a decent post game but since he went back to Cleveland he doesn't work on it as much anymore. You look at Dwight Howard and what he could do if he developed a decent post game or hook shot or fade away. But he chose not to so now nobody cares about Dwight Howard. LOL
Well, Dwight Howard's "stunted" post game isn't due to his choosing not to develop his post game. After all, he loves posting up. So much so that he actively (or passive aggressively) gripes about his lack of post touches (where he is somewhat effective) instead of concentrating on his PNR game (where he is devastating). Also, he was the first player to do the Hakeem The Dream skills camp, so you can't say he isn't interested in developing his post game. From what I've seen, he has pretty good technique (if a bit mechanical), nice quickness, and reasonably slick footwork. So his moves/fluidity is not bad. His downfall is his jump shot, hook shot, and general touch around the basket. As it is, he's an automatic 15-20 PPG scorer even with his lousy-mediocre touch and shooting. But if he had good touch & free throw shooting, he would be a 25+ PPG scorer easily. The same goes for younger PNR monsters who are horrid free throw shooters & jump shooters. Though neither Andre Drummond or DeAndre Jordan have the scoring ability of Dwight Howard, they would definitely improve to 15-20 PPG levels if they had better touch. In other words, Drummond and Jordan with a decent jumper would be like Alonzo Mourning. Monster rebounder and defender, not many offensive moves, but possessing a decent jump shot, free throw shooting, and quickness to get by slower defenders. Howard with a decent jump shot is a level or two higher than that IMO.
As a lifelong Sixers fan, I've always known how good Kevin McHale was. He was practically indefensible in the low block. I'm sure Celtics fans recall how good Andrew Toney was.
McHale shows you the ball ,you bite, he goes under ,if you are good enough to guard the second move ,McHale rolls the other way ,you still look stupid. McHale never got the credit he deserved ,one of the best post players of all time.
I meant,he averaged over 26 points one season,in 1986-87,and had 5 consecutive +20 seasons,from 85-86 till 89-90,he almost done it in 1984-85 season,with 19,8 per game.
Saw a great quote from McHale on TV. People were talking about how "Everyone was afraid of Jordan" and he looked genuinely surprised and said, "I wasn't."
+GerMart I think a lot of that plays on the whole "Celtics had a bunch of white guys" rep. Not saying that was what was being brought up but there's often some underlying stereotypes being thrown out. Also, Ainge was also athletic enough to play in the MLB before going to the NBA, as well as a scratch golfer and tough/strong enough to tackle 7'2 Tree Rollins to the ground!
I'm not sure if anyone can honestly watch McHale and claim he wasn't athletic. Someone who isn't athletic can't pull off ten moves and fool defenders consistently.
With all the comments, I'm sure someone pointed this out, but It bears repeating. The last seconds of this video you hear the voice of Celtic great Bill Russell (one of the t.v. cast crew) saying "trying to hold McHale, when he's posting up, is like trying to hold water in your hand." To a defender, it must have seemed like he was facing a whirling dervish octopus with all those quick multiple moves in succession. Just like Jabbars sky hook, no one has perfectly copied McHales post moves, maybe because they cannot be just copied mechanically, but must have the fluidity that made those men so great.
Christopher Fern True, and the excellent, agile moves of Mchale was only part of the problem for defenders, this video reminded me of how precise his fade away jumper was. You had me laughing, how often do you hear the phrase: whirling dervish octopus. - Oh, man LOL
The great thing about McHale's offense is that he knew he was a low post player and stuck to being a low post player. He shot very few 3s and had years he didn't take any 3s. McHale knew his game was the low post and stuck to the low post. That's why he led the NBA in FG% in 1987 and 1988 in back to back years shooting .604 each time.
Yeah he was truly one of the best, his post up moves were just amazing, very few could guard him one on one, i was lucky enough to get his autograph, my father and i went to a game when i was 11, after the game all the players were driving out of the garage from the Garden, that is a great memory i will never forget.
Old school ball was all about the post and repost. I get sick of seeing the modern guards jack up a bad shot when the initial post wasn't there. Take your time and get the ball back down low. The big man is your friend.
The best post player ever when it comes to footwork. And to show how great he really was, he developed a 3-point shot towards the end of his career. In the 91 Playoffs, he was 6 of 11 from beyond the arc.
He'd be a freak. Just about anyone who started in the '80s would be a freak today. Their skill level, basketball IQ, toughness, stamina, and focus were magnitudes ahead of what it is now. Chalk it up to everyone trying to recruit athleticism instead of skill - trying to find the next Jordan - changing the culture of basketball to shit.
Merl Ball toughness? Maybe. Skill? No way. Players now are MUCH more skilled then they were in the 80s. Maybe these guys had a better post game, but that’s what happens when there are freak of nature athletes like Rudy Gobert and Giannis Antetokounmpo guarding the rim.
Yup. Wasn't much for passing and used his right hand 90% of the time yet still would score 55-60% of his baskets without jumping over 5 inches. Not that he couldn't jump, but he saved it for blocking shots and playing defense. He was a freaking beast before his foot slowed him down.
McHale played a game that seems so easy, but is predicated on the ability to read and react to what the defense is giving you that few players are able to attain. He had multiple moves and combinations that he would use based on how the defender was positioned. That's not athleticism- Which he had, by the way- That's intelligence.
He would do all this in traffic. Can you imagine him now with the spacing that exists because everyone shooting three's. He'd be killing it down in the post.
Damn Mchale was deadly in that post. That up and under was unstoppable. But the he would hit you with the jump hook, underhand reverse layup and the fade away jumper! No way to guard that! Just hope he misses a few!
I was a kid growing up in Detroit in the 80's hating the Celtics. But for all you youngsters out there. McHale is the greatest low post player of all time. He had every move in the book and then some. He was completely unstoppable in the post.
both McHale and Hakeem are deadly. the only difference is that Hakeem's moves are more flashy. McHale's are more fundamental. on the otherhand, I would tip my hat to McHale since he could fake the hell out of 2-3 players guarding him. Hakeem though struggles with double teams but is great on 1 on 1 coverage.
amazing footwork. had a counter to every counter- big men with long arms aren't meant to move that well. hakeem learnt a lot of his moves from mchale. what a frontline- to put it in perspective- they had the best scoring 3, the best post 4, and the best defensive 5. thats like a frontline of dirk, duncan and dwight today- playing together. i know it sounds funny- but thats how good they were in terms of respective ranking in the nba. the 3 of them made like 10 all star games in a row together and went to 5 finals, and won 3 of them. they d have won many more if it were not for the equally great team on the other coast.
This is exactly what I was looking for. Kevin McHale post moves beating double-teams. I'm surprised that there's no one currently in the NBA practicing these moves.
yukguy1 I know what you mean but what you're basically seeing is the game shifting from the dominant low post of the 90s to today's mid and perimeter dominant game. One obvious reason is because we have less superstar centers than we did in the 90s. So we get less McHale, Ewing, Shaq, post play and we get more 3-point and driving/penetrating play. T.Duncan developed more mid game to his attacking the basket and Durant is more than happy to beat a defender at the perimeter for a drive through the lane. Today's player has excellent ball handling skills. However, many of McHale's moves are being used all over today's nba. After all, McHale had most of the classic repertoire at his disposal: left and right post spin and with counter, a hook, a jump and fade, and he could turn to face the basket from the post for finger-roll and floater shots. The post spin with counter is extremely popular and it's been used throughout the years. When Mchale is posting and then he spins on the defender, when he finishes the spin he dips back in the other direction, often kind of dipping under the defender's side, usually toward the hoop for a layup or high-percentage shot. This video shows him doing it all the time lol. It's a great move.
Kevin's moves are so slippery slick it's as if he's made of rubber an greased with butter!!! You couldn't try ta stop Kevin only pray he missed sometimes!! Da man!! The low post was graced by em!!!! Those were the great old dayz of bein the Celtic fan I am!!! Boy do I miss!!! GO C'S....be good!!
What a great video! Probably the most dominant post player in the history of the game. Tim Duncan is the only one of this era where I can sit back and say he finishes from the low post as well as Kevin Mchale did
Willy E It's hard to say just how dominant he was seeing as the storyline is that he wasn't even the best player on his team. Shaq, Hakeem, Timmy and Charles Barkley were more dominant players all around, but certainly the two most beautiful post games I've ever watched based off of video belong to Hakeem and Kevin Mchale.
If you were a kid growing up in Boston in the early 80s with any height whatsoever you were basically a Kevin McHale wannabe when you got the ball in the paint. The up and under is absolutely unstoppable and he had nights where he stayed hot all night and torched the opposing defenders for the whole game. Awesome.
im glad you starting showing them fall aways at 4:30. thats why his up and under was so lethal. when he came in the league all he shot was that fadeaway. when he added that counter move it took him from sixth man to all time great
I would say because Dwight is a specimen. He is bigger and could jump higher than everyone since middle school id bet so he never had to rely on fundamentals. Now that he is pushing 30 it is obvious that he can't jump as high and he lacks the fundamental skill in the post offensively.
Mick A Only thing is you're undervaluing Shaq's skills. If every large 7 footer could get that close to the rim and finish as well as Shaq could, they would do it every time. The reality though is that they can't because even Shaq had basic footwork that allowed him to get the positioning he needed to use his strength.
It was always so much fun to watch this guy play! It was so much fun watching him get the ball in the low post and just eat people alive. The repertoire of moves he had just seemed endless. I often thought that if he had played on a team where he was the main go to guy, he might have won the MVP award.
Kevin McHale basically used basic and fundamental post moves to score the basketball. The low post moves and the low post game has become a lost art in today's game. Hopefully one day the post game will make a significant comeback in the NBA. Chicago Bulls nation for life!!! Chicago Cubs nation for life!!! Chicago Bears nation for life!!!!!
How can RU-vid watchers be so dense? It's obvious the up and under works because you have to respect his other moves. Also, he used about 5-6 different up and under finishes. Incredible
