Ugh, once again, RU-vid's systems seem to be hiding comments from me, so that I can't even find them in my Spam folder. So just know that - unless someone is making hateful remarks - I'm NOT deleting or hiding any comments.
I got the DLC but I totally agree with some of the stuff you said about the limit cut bosses/ yozora. I feel like the openings are kind of arbitrary I wouldn't be as bothered by it though if they made it so that like lingering will they'd sit for a little bit after finishing an attack so you don't have to rocket scientist your way into openings.
@@LibraScope I thought it was pretty good! Also another thought I've had is that it would be cool if they gave all boss attacks armor guages to make it so you have a way to break through as opposed to wait until an opening that sometimes is just random also I don't like data dark riku much
"As the player, you don't *make* openings in these data fights. You *react* to them." I found this pretty interesting. I think Sephiroth from KH1 is a good example of making openings. Because he has many moments where he is simply walking towards the player, and you have the option to approach him and bait out attacks from him so you can strike. In KH3, the data battles are more about them teleporting behind you and attacking everywhere, and you just dodge and counterattack at very specific points. I also did enjoy Terra-Xehanorts DM, because it focuses more on positioning rather than predicting teleport spam. I can really only think of 1 Data fight in KH2 that plays like the ones in KH3. *Larxene* (not to be confused with KH3 larxene).
“They wouldn’t reveal that in a mobile experience.” If this were any other series my friend, I would agree with you. But with Kingdom Hearts it always serves to never underestimate the Darkity Darkity Darkness. Also, appreciate the fact that you made a review of Kingdom Hearts 3 where you mention TRON, that’s about an hour longer than TRON.
Lol, you've got me there. Though, I think if they did end up revealing something so important in a spinoff, it would probably be because the 'reveal' is just a reveal of another question/mystery. Which would be infuriating, lol.
Nomura's writing on Xehanort is really weird to me. He started out as king Ansem who created the heartless, then got retconned into a rebellious apprentice and identity thief- Then got retconned again to be either a crazy person who wanted to nuke the universe for curiosity at worst, or someone who thought there was too much light at best (a motivation that doesn't even make sense because we're never told the ramifications of too much light, it'd probably be better if there was no darkness) Then 3 retconned his motive again to be that he actually didn't like darkness despite everything we learned about him since 2002. These could have all been different villains, but for some reason Nomura loves to go back and repurpose old ideas into new ones. I hope he finally moves on to do new stuff.
I really, really, really do too, because I'm just so exhausted with things as they are. Even if I don't like whatever they might do with a soft reset, it would still be refreshing and open up doors to try new things.
Great vid, I throughly agree with basically everything you are saying. One thing I just had to comment on though was what you started talking about at 27:50. Like you, I see KH3 as a giant collection of missed opportunities in almost all facets of the game. I can talk all day about what they are, but one of the biggest missed opportunities was just how they just turned all the characters into card board cut outs that surround Sora. I have no idea why people don’t talk about it more but you’ve probably articulated it the best of anyone I’ve seen. Why on earth did we spend 15+ years getting to know these characters for them to just not do anything in the finale? Why are Terra, Ven, and Aqua so willing to let Sora take on Xehanort alone? Narratively speaking, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to fight him? Shouldn’t all 3 of them be pissed beyond belief for him ruining there lives? How long have people asked about what it would be like if Ventus met Roxas? Well apparently, it would be nothing. They bring Roxas back (undoing all of character growth from 2) only for him to do nothing. Same with Xion. Everybody is brought back but nobody does anything interesting, nobody acts like we would know of them to act. Why was it so easy for Aqua and Ventus to recover from deeply traumatic events? Why does Kairi go from struggling against normal enemies to holding her own against Xehanort in the final battle. This doesn’t even scratch the surface for stuff that should’ve been explored but wasn’t for some reason. This game is missing natural character interaction and progression. Things just happen for no other reason than because they just happened this way. It was a huge opportunity to have interesting interactions between interesting characters to tell an interesting unique story but instead we get half baked bs that slaps what came before in the face. Edit: I am also glad you mentioned the KH2FM vs vanilla KH3 argument. Why people are so adamant on not hold 3 to the standard 2FM is baffling. The devs know exactly what the fans want, why are we giving them excuses for not putting it in the base game? Why are we giving the game excuses for not blowing past the bar set by a 13 year old game? Why are we giving them excuses for missing series staple content? Why are we giving this game excuses for having the same problems as a ps2 era. In some cases they even created problems that were fixed in 2FM. It’s baffling why people are like this, it’s like they don’t want KH3 to be an improvement on what has come before. The more people give excuses, the worse off the series will be.
Yeah, can't really say I disagree, lol. Though at this point it mostly only bothers me because a lot of people still want to argue the storytelling is strong. If they like it, that's great! But it's not particularly well written, and that should be acknowledged if we want it to improve in the future. Glad you found value in the video!
Incredible video! I was writing a KH analysis video focused on Re:Mind because no one discussed it properly, only to find out you covered a lot of what I wanted to say lmao. Gotta alter my script so that I bring up different points. You definitely earned a subscriber.
@@kidgoku1984 Hahaha, thanks for the sub and for taking the time to watch such a long video. I hope you find other videos on the channel to enjoy. And I hope your own Re:Mind video can come together as something interesting and rewarding!
This analysis is pretty well made. I'm 45 minutes in and its quite a treat to listen to. Also WTF Sora can do a skateboard attack?! I'm on the Data Battles and I didn't even know!
I'm glad you're enjoying it so far! Yeah, lol, I kind of wish there was a use for that skateboard attack. The game needs more slopes so I can spam it! :P
Good video! I would argue that lingering will does essentially the same thing the remind data battles do in terms of only being open after combos and ignoring your attacks otherwise, but that’s my only disagreement. I also like you defending reviewers. As much as I dislike IGN, it’s also good to point out that we as fans are maybe too accepting of this series nonsense and need to be open to outside criticism.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video! Yeah, Lingering Will is definitely more similar to the KH3 Data battles than the KH2 ones. I think the key there is that there's only one boss like that in KH2, whereas they're all that way in ReMind's Data fights.
This is one of my favorite video essays on the Internet. I have never seen any other exhaustive review of KH 3 and the borderline scam that is Re:Mind that tackles the two products from so many intriguing perspectives. From game design, to story, to the community responses, you have done a great job formulating an iron-clad critique of this game that can stand up to near any criticism thrown at it. Not only that, but you have also cast a more constructive light to a lot of criticisms I and others have lobbed towards KH 3. For example, like you, I hate how cluttered mob fights can get, which cause me to die far too often and without any appropriate form of counter available. Yet you pointed out how the game could have avoided a lot of that through borrowing from other contemporary or near-contemporary action titles, which does a much better job of giving the Osaka team (or other developers in general) methods by which to avoid the problem in future versus someone like me just complaining out of frustration. So, good on you. While my opinions on KH 3 have warmed since its launch (where I outright despised it), I still consider it to have the second-weakest story in the series (next to Dream Drop Distance, NOT Re:Coded, since even for as pointless as that story was, it still had enough charming bits to make up for it, as well as giving the, “what makes someone a person” question that the games only shallowly tend to cover more screentime). KH 3 was the game that ultimately made me reconsider a lot of things I had originally loved about this series. I used to consider myself a major KH fan, but I’m now much more skeptical and cautious of new developments in the series, as well as having a more critical eye directed towards a lot of characters and plot points that came before, now that I know where it was all leading. Frankly, I think my own biggest problem with KH 3's story is that Tetsuya Nomura should not have shoved every major plot point into one game to get wrapped up. Not only do I consider it a cynical marketing tactic to string people along into buying all the side games (what new mysteries will be added to the pile?), but it also ended up resulting in a game that had no clue on how to effectively weave an epic story around the restrictive Disney mandates and filler worlds. It all just felt so rushed, it’s unbelievable. Literally, I STILL don’t entirely get how Terra and Xion came back. So, yeah. Overall, thanks for the great watch, and I could tell a lot of effort went into all this.
Thank YOU for such a comprehensive comment, as well as simply watching the video all the way through. I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as you did! That's also a point I've never really thought about, but it's a good one. It has always made sense to me - considering KH3 was the end of this giant arc - to wrap up as much as possible in KH3 itself. But considering the Disney restrictions and mandates they had to skirt around, that goal does seem incongruous with the red tape Nomura and his team had to deal with. It might've indeed been better to not wrap everything up (or needlessly bring stuff up, like the box) in KH3. Though of course, a lot of it was directly tied to the conclusion of this game, and so DID need to be wrapped up here. But that gets into a whole other topic related to setting up so many threads in previous games, that required wrapping up in this specific game in the first place. I suppose that's a point I have felt all this time while exploring KH3's spot in the series, and where it faltered. But you brought it out in the open, and put it very succinctly. For as much as KH3 was supposed to be a conclusion, maybe it simply shouldn't have tried to manage concluding so many things. Though it certainly would've helped had they actually paced a lot more of it throughout the game's runtime, instead of tossing it all at the end... Anyway, thanks again for watching! Hopefully you might find other topics I've covered on this channel interesting!
Lmao the reexamination of KH3 really got me. KH3 may have some of the worst writing I've seen in an RPG in a lonnnng time. The series strikes me as a "mystery box" plot (hilariously now it literally is). They'll reveal something interesting, but then it's clear they haven't thought about how it ends, so then it kinda just fumbles until something new pops up that they can point at. And I completely agree about all the "revelations" that are shown in ReMind. I feel like these things were obvious inferences, and didn't need a whole DLC to have an explicit explanation. It feels like they were grasping to find "story" content that wasn't 100% explained so they could sell something. And I guess you could say that Sora fighting Terranort wasn't going against time because, uhh, it was supposed to happen? Like it's a paradox, I guess? But viewing it this way makes this waaaayyy more complicated and confusing. Lmao. But honestly, I'm not sure how we're supposed to view it. But, you know how I feel about the whole DLC. Very thorough discussion here, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Really great video.
Lol, much appreciated! At this point, I'm really not sure how to feel about the series and its future. Like... of course I'll still be interested in what they do next on a big budget scale. But I'm really unsure if it's because I believe they can do better (mechanically), or purely because I've been with the series for so long, or... something else? It's kind of just like that dead feeling I get from Sonic these days. Yeah, they'll probably make another great game eventually. But how much content that's not well made will I have to wade through first?
@@LibraScope Lol yeah, I agree. Sometimes I feel that KH3 gaslights me and I think "wait, was the whole series this bad!?" But then I go back and play 1 and 2 and remember how amazing they were. I'm gonna stick with the series because I've played it my whole life, but I'm definitely gonna be bitching the whole way through until something good pops up. Lmao.
@@literalmaverick8608 I know I certainly felt like the series was always pretty bad, for the better part of a decade. I loved it initially, but grew to dislike it as I learned more about game design. Because we didn't have access to KH1 Proud or KH2 Critical until the 1.5/2.5 compilations, I was disappointed that the games didn't balance around using all of your options. I wanted something that was more thoughtful than just mashing buttons for 40 hours, lol. Thankfully, the FM versions of those two games deliver more. Unfortunately, the rest of the series really doesn't, lol.
Holy fuck, it feels like I've found my twin in game design perspective. I'm a bit late to the party, but I nevertheless wanted to express thanks for making such a pointed critique on the design of KH3's data fights and the community's response to their broader critical reception. I'm probably biased in thinking so, as the issues you brought up practically 1:1 mirror what I thought about them at the time, but it's a perspective that's often overlooked as there's a pretty prevalent sentiment that "higher technical execution = better boss"; an encounter that requires more knowledge, practice and execution is somehow inherently better designed than one that doesn't. Having a tough-as-nails boss fight that requires you to challenge yourself and properly engage with a game's systems in order to succeed is all well and good, but there's a fine distinction to be towed between what constitutes a fair challenge or an artificial inflation of difficulty, as well as how well-crafted that challenge is in context to the rest of the game. Not only does the rest of the game not prepare you at all for the brutal difficulty spike of the data fights, I would go as far as to say that it actively sets you up for failure, as many of the additional skills and abilities that Sora gains over the course of the main game (as well as the personal skill you've been building up) become immediately redundant as soon as you enter the LimitCut episode. A majority of the game's mechanics go out the window in favor of boiling down combat to its absolute basics, requiring you to rely only on blocking, dodging and keyblade combos, albeit honed to near-mastery. As a one- or two-off meant to highlight a specific aspect of the game's combat, this is fine, but almost every single fight in the episode is designed this way, with the only notable exception being Luxord thanks to his minigame gimmick. This stipulation is further worsened by the fact that learning most fights comes purely down to trial and error, which is definitely on the "artificial" side of the aforementioned spectrum of challenge. Most of their attacks are unreactable based purely on visuals alone, as they teleport spam all over the place and unleash ruthless combos on Sora's unsuspecting ass. (Notable exception again goes to Luxord, Ansem and Xigbar.) The icing on it all is that many of their attack chains are designed in a mean-spirited way to catch players reacting on intuition off-guard, like Vanitas' delayed fire ball combos or the gratuitous amounts of super armor that prevent you from catching any of them off-rhythm. It all ties back into the premise that these fights are meant to be memorized through trial and error, and they really play more like heavily-choreographed dance routines than your typical ARPG encounter. There are small variations in what attacks they can choose from, but most fights still progress in a very formulaic manner as you breach HP threshholds. It can be quite satisfying to pull off, especially if you're able to do so near-perfectly, which is why Lingering Will was such a great boss in KH2. Granted, I don't find him nearly as unreadable or predictable as most of the KH3 data fights, but even still, it's a great idea for a one-off fight that really tests your core combat mastery and ability to manage an absolutely relentless boss. That does not mean I want to fight 13 Lingering Wills in a row. That doesn't detract from the fact that you're fighting essentially 13 rehashed clones of the same fighting style with which the only way to reasonably win is through memorization and blind experimentation. And Luxord. I don't think it compares to the variety of encounters on display in KH2's data fights, which really did feel like a true mastery exam. Ironically a fair bit easier than KH3's in my opinion, but almost all of your abilities are useful, and may excel in certain fights more than others. You still had relatively straightforward fights like Larxene and Xemnas, but then you also had encounters like Vexen, who played much more defensively while punishing you for trying the same with a recurrent summon that tracks you based on movement, asking you to create your own openings with careful movement and positioning rather than just waiting for one. Or Axel, who really taxed your healing with a passive HP drain, pushing you to either play hyper-aggressively or extra cautiously. They almost all had a gimmick that changed the way you perceived the fight; whether or not it was effectively implemented (Lexaeus lol) is another matter, but it's clear that an effort was made to include everything you've learned up to that point, while still providing a fair challenge. To tie back to the bit about critical reception, I absolutely abhor the growing trend that any and all criticisms of a game on its difficulty or construction of challenge are immediately met with accusations of "skill issue" and the belief that the criticism is therefore irrelevant. It's a way of reducing arguments without actually engaging the argument itself. Just because you CAN overcome an obstacle does not a good obstacle make; dismissing any and all criticism under such a notion is not only incredibly elitist but is itself dismissive of the very fundamental concept of proper difficulty balancing. You CAN play KH1 on Proud, Level 1, blindfolded, damageless, no equipment or items and no magic or summons, but I don't think most people would call that a well-balanced challenge in the scope of the game KH1 tries to be. The only difference here (aside from the magnitude of difficulty, of course) is that the challenge seems to be dev-intended. But yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts. Once again, really stellarly-composed video, definitely earned a subscriber!
Thanks so much for watching the video, and for the sub! And also for the comprehensive comment! I wish I had more to say, but considering we seem to agree very fundamentally here, I don't really have anything to add. I hope you enjoy any other videos of mine you decide to check out!
@@LibraScope Definitely, I really enjoyed the keyblade-less KH2 run and plan to check out more. Thanks for the quick reply too, it's quite nice (and rare) to see a creator still engaging with a 3-and-a-half-year-old video. Can't wait to see more, especially critical analysis like this!
@@batman8674 Ha, as long as I have something to say, I try to reply to every comment :) I'm still a small enough channel that sometimes I don't get any comments for several days, so I might as well engage with people engaging with my content. It's part of why I do it, after all :) Glad you enjoyed the No Keyblade Combos video too :D
Please tell me every clip you showed of juggling a basic mob and dealing absolutely pitiful amounts of chip damage was from some sort of restricted run: Level 1, no accessories, no Keyblade upgrades, no stat boosting items, because there's just no ways dealing so little damage is allowed. There's no way this game throws like 20+ mobs at you and demands that you land multiple full combos on them while they can just randomly one-shot you on Critical mode while also having a god awful camera and checkpoints, and people think it's good. That shit looks indefensible, like what is the appeal? Also, there was no ReMind ability integration with the base game on a new save file, you have to mod the game for that.
For what it's worth, I don't know the specifics but I've heard that the community has since realized there's some sort of scaling inherent in the Data battles. And you get scaling (that isn't quite as good as KH2's) whenever you're in a Form across the entire game. And if you could bear grinding to slightly higher than average levels on Crit, you'd do a bit more damage than shown here. I'm also not using food in most of the non-Data fights here. But yeah... otherwise, how I show it is how it is to this day. That's just the way Osaka Team games are. If you can believe it, Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance are FAR worse at this. It's super easy to get to a point where you're straight up just doing 1 damage per hit, and 2-3 for a finisher.
I grow up woth kh since 2002 but after kh ddd... I think they tried to milk the series... For me all ends with the xehanorth saga... I just watch online the story if they make kh 4
Ok so I just want to comment on the “reviewing” argument that you presented. The thing is is that I almost completely agree with you on the matter. Some things for people are just way too hard and they can’t help it. These bosses were designed to test everyone’s limits on KH3 and many reviewers weren’t prepared to do that. Yes, they are on a tight schedule and they things aren’t as easy for them to beat these bosses. However, I think we are looking at the argument the wrong way. Let’s say that a reviewer got through 10 hours of a 20 hour game and meanwhile another reviewer is able to go through the entire game but puts his review after the first guy. Now, which review would you rather read to get the most accurate and efficient review from. It would be the second guy. Yes, maybe it was too hard for the first guy, maybe he had a tight schedule, or he wasn’t able to get through the game or something. But the fact of the matter is that the more you play the game, you understand the game, and the more time and effort that someone puts into it gives them makes them more efficient to say what is good or bad about the game. Mainstream reviewers should definitely get their voice out their, don’t get me wrong, but the problem is that there will pretty much be people out there who have experienced more of the game and can elaborate on the real content of the game. I’d put bizkit’s review of Re:mind as something more thought out than what the person at IGN said simply because bizkit has these Remind bosses a lot.
Yes, but as I said in the video, people like Biz or myself also doesn't speak to/for everyone. The thing about these reviews by places like IGN, is that they're often geared less toward hardcore fans, and more toward a general audience. They're often for the person who may not know much about the series, and was wondering if they should get into it. So for that type of person, it's extremely important they know that this content is difficult in a way that greatly contrasts with the base game. Beyond that, it's totally fine to wish that the world worked in such a way that late reviews could get the same (or even larger) of an audience, as long as they put in the work. But that's not how this works. Unfortunately, most people look up reviews early, and then move on. So not only is there a clock set by their employer where they have limited time before they need to start working on other things, but there's a clock set by their audience before those people don't care. And there's a clock set by the embargo too. If all of these people could stop time to finish everything in every game, at their own pace before moving on, I'm sure most of them would. Like, the fact of the matter is that quality of work nearly always comes at the expense of viewership, unless you've built up a specific audience that searches for YOUR brand of quality. I myself could've EASILY gotten probably 10x the amount of views on this video had I instead rushed it and made it shorter, less comprehensive, and lowered the quality. Just look at all the awful reviews on RU-vid that came out in the first few days after Re:Mind released, that did WAY better than they had any right to; reviews that got information wrong, or did nothing but list features, or... even a lot of YTers that hadn't finished all the content but were still reviewing it :P I could've done that too and saw more success. I chose not to, because I valued quality more. But that has come at a huge cost to my potential viewership, as it always does... a cost many outlets relying on clicks/ad revenue can't sustain themselves through. Time is money, as they say. Also, it's important to note that like none of the reviews from these outlets that people are criticizing really talked about the quality of the bosses. They didn't say they were awful or anything. The lower scores came from the Re:Mind chapter and the things it did wrong, not from the tough bosses.
LibraScope I do not know if you really got the core message of my comment tho. There is a huge difference between something like your review and IGN. You played the entire game multiple times, analyzing everything in all playthroughs and the review is great even though you didn’t really think it was that good (btw man, sorry about that, I wish you could have enjoyed the game more like me 😕) But then you have IGN, which didn’t go through most of Limitcut and nothing about Secret Episode. I think people are so mad because all the people mad at IGN played through EVERYTHING the dlc had to offer just like you. They saw the amazing bosses that you HAVE to admit are at LEAST some of the best in the series. And then they see that IGN put a 6/10 whereas the people mad at them would probably put a higher number because of some of the best fights in the series. People are mad that IGN didn’t get to the best part of the DLC before putting their review up. But then there are people like you, Bizkit, and others who have played through everything and who really do know the entire quality of the DLC. I might not agree with everything about your review, as do others, but I have to admit that it is a good review. (Basically, reviews can be reviewed haha) I am not talking about reviewers that are on a tight schedule and stuff. People SHOULD NOT be saying mean things against the mainstream reviewers because they just couldn’t get through the entire thing. I AM saying, however, that if someone, anyone that wants to have OBJECTIVELY the best analyzation of a product to see whether or not they should buy it, would look to see the opinions of those who have beaten KH3, or all of Remind. You did a good review, all reviews are subjective, because the reviewer writes or talks about a product using things that is important to THEM in a video game. Combat, Story, Presentation, etc. This is why many people don’t agree with you. But it is also why your review is amazing because you’re talking about what you thought about the video game. It is sad that mainstream reviewers can’t usually see everything that makes up the game that they have to review because its too long, or hard, etc, and they have a tight schedule, and no one should ever be attacking them for that, but OBJECTIVELY, people that understand everything about the game will have the best opinion about it. I might not agree with yours, as I have played the game for myself and have different feelings about the quality, but I can say that you have experienced and know everything the game has to offer for you, and your ideas and thoughts about it are great. Amazing video, man ( Also, one final thing, I noticed that almost immediately after I post my comments, you respond, and it’s like, WO. Are you a night owl that instantly reads everything that people say to you, geez man!)
Nah, lol. I understood what you were trying to say. I just don't agree. There are many stances you're taking that I just don't agree with here. Like for example, the idea that there can be an 'objectively best' analysis of a product. No one person can see things from every perspective. Therefore, no one person can craft an analysis of a work that represents that work 'objectively the best'. I've seen PLENTY of reviews from people who know a game back to front, inside and out, that still end up terrible, because they don't actually understand the technical design, or the artistic thought processes, or anything else that goes into the thing they're critiquing. Think of it this way... which person is going to have a deeper understanding of a Star Wars movie; someone who has watched it casually a thousand times, and has little understanding of film as an artform? Or someone who has watched it twice, but has a background in film? Experience is only part of the equation when it comes to assessing the quality of a product. Understanding the underlying features of what you're exploring, and why those features may be the way they are is what gives that experience value. Also, while opinions can vary in quality, there is no 'best opinion' either. Critique isn't all subjective. It's best when it's sitting on a bet of objective facts. But that doesn't mean that the more facts you have backing up your opinions, the better your opinions will be automatically. It's extremely easy for people to misinterpret facts. Beyond that, it's genuinely not true that "...all the people mad at IGN played through EVERYTHING the dlc had to offer just like you." Like I said in the video; a lot of the people complaining had gotten no further in LimitCut than IGN, Gamespot, and the other outlets being criticized for not finishing it. And a lot of reviewers criticizing them for it straight up didn't finish that content either. And again, you're straight up ignoring the fact that NONE of these outlets like IGN gave the DLC a lower score because the LimitCut stuff was hard for them to finish. Their scores entirely came from the poor design of the actual ReMind episode. So even if there was some objective merit to their scores (which there isn't... scores are meaningless), the score is NOT evidence that they didn't give the LimitCut content the attention it deserved. Also "People are mad that IGN didn’t get to the best part of the DLC before putting their review up." is straight up just not true either, because they DID get to LimitCut, and they were therefore able to try all but three of the last fourteen fights as much as they wanted... they were able to test the vast majority of the LimitCut content. And as such, even if experience was the major prerequisite for quality critique, they very well could've gotten the same amount of experience with the majority of those fights as I myself had before I wrote my video. I get email alerts when I get comments a lot of the time. So when I get an email, and it's for a comment that has effort put into it, I try to prioritize responding to it as swiftly as I can :)
LibraScope LibraScope Oh dang! Sorry man! Why did I say “best opinion”? (I am serious btw, it is late at the time of me writing this, I am not writing good. 😣) That’s dumb, ok, what I meant was that people that UNDERSTAND everything about a game usually have the most in depth analysis of it in their own opinion, giving the reader or watcher the best analyzation the game that THAT SPECIFIC REVIEWER CAN GIVE THE PUBLIC (That is the important part). There is never a best opinion about a game. Let me give you an example, uh, you gave a very good review IN YOUR OPNION, you analyzed everything in a very nice way. You understand the game a lot more than the reviewer when he put up his review for Remind at the time. And then I have beaten the game a good amount of times as well and I have also learned and understood much of the combat. However, if I were to make a review, with my current knowledge of the game, well, I have to tell you that KH3 has more things going for it IN MY OPNION, and I do think that KH3 (sighs in preparation) is better KH2. No opinions are invalid, it’s just that getting more intimate with the game can grant a more in-depth analysis of it to truly see the game’s true quality. So what, because I think KH3 is better than KH2 that I am the worst person to ever say anything about video games. No, because I have sunk a huge amount of time into both games and can safely say that in my mind, as a hole, with the knowing of all the mechanics of both games, KH3 is better, but you may not agree, and you know what, that’s fine. I just feel that the elements that made up all of KH3 come together to make it up make something better than KH2. Ok, now I am going to stop typing comments for this video. My brain is confused with what is a fact, opinion, reviewer, reviews, game, whatever, thanks for sharing what you think on KH3. I don’t agree with some of it, some stuff I do agree with, and I am happy that you think that KH3 is good and not just ok anymore.
Great video. I've beaten KH3 and ReMind in the past month, after getting into the series last July. I overall quite like KH3 despite my issues with the story's pacing. ReMind was a little more mixed, but again, lean more towards positive. I can't beat the LimitCut episode, I am simply not skilled or fast enough to do so. But I like having them there, and I like trying them despite not being able to really make a dent in them. The most fun for me was the Data Greetings, the options are a little more limited than I'd like, but I can spend hours just messing around in it. It is what made the DLC actually feel worth it to me. It as a whole should be $15-$20 IMO, but I have gotten enough enjoyment out of it that I don't mind that I paid the full price for it.
Glad you were able to find enjoyment from the game. It's definitely a divisive one, and I think the main reason for that is because it was so close to being fantastic in so many ways. Also, I appreciate that you watched/enjoyed the video as well :)
All worthy points that I wish more people brought up, especially how every magic spell is either AOE or homing missile. I personally didnt even buy KH3 due to not having a console for it, but from seeing everything about it, I felt not getting it was the correct choice for me regardless. The entire game + DLC has interesting moments and ideas, but they don't feel fleshed out enough for me to get really invested. Maybe development hell held the game far more than we know, and that's why it's so bizarre when compared to every game before it. KH3 _was_ meant to be a big game so they put everything into scale at the cost of... well, flexibility and character. Remind gives me a glimmer of hope that Osaka Team can deliver good gameplay though... but they still have to shake off their flash-over-substance roots from what I've seen.
I mean I agree in general with your story critique but I do have a few issues 1: xehanort has explained or at least it was implied that he chose the path of darkness because everyone else chose light so he was to an extent a living embodiment of his ideal as for all the guardians of light there were he would be the shadow they cast. 2: resetting the universe would be bad because wiping out all life and starting again is kind of a shitty thing to do like yea the new universe would be balanced but to do that he has to first kill everyone. So yea those were my only real problems with your story critique great video
I can't recall there ever being confirmation that resetting would kill anyone; only that it would unify the world again as one place, rather than disparate realms. Got a source? :)
LibraScope it’s more narrative implication given previous keyblade wars killed all but a few people as explained in union cross. And generally universe resets have always killed the current inhabitants in fiction (halo, marvel, Destiny, dc etc) so there is a president in pop culture. Again it’s also implied based on how everyone is acting. And if your argument would be that’s too implicit you criticized the story telling for being too explicit. I will say while this was just my interpretation and that always seemed pretty clear to me I do criticize the fact that a lot of this stuff is tied to unpacking reports and playing a fucking mobile game. I did just want to say that that is kind of how it seemed xehanort phrased his plan
@@kaison12205 And that's totally fair :) While I do think the series is generally too explicit for its own good, I would argue there's a point where you cross a line by being so explicit elsewhere, that it's kind of necessary to continue that trend. Being so explicit isn't inherently a problem after all; lots of heavily science oriented sci-fi does it for example. But they're usually consistent with it, and try to avoid implication over explanation as much as possible. It's that consistency that I think is ultimately the most important part, which is why it irks me personally.
LibraScope I get that I personally think that a series that is shorter can get away with being more implicit but when you are a series 8 games and counting you need to be far more explicit in terms of universe mechanics so it feels a lot less asspully though the dialogue and story can be implicit. I think that kh’s biggest problem was a lack of a clear foundation and forward planning set for a series this large in scope
I wonder if it would have been better if they gave us 3 more save slots for the dlc. I wonder how any person would have made the gameplay better. People on RU-vid have already made videos on how they would redo the story making it better though how would a person redo the gameplay since sora needs a reason for keyblade transformations, attractions and other stuff. I am a little surprised Riku can’t do his own version of keyblade transformation.
LibraScope it is stated in dream drop I believe that he’s taken from destiny islands which is before he ever goes to scala. The old man xehanort was friends with eraquis for a long ass time but we’ll find out about that in guess what another fucking mobile game (if you can’t tell I’m very tired of them)
@@kaison12205 That's probably my biggest gap in knowledge for the series. I have a few friends that do keep up with the mobile stuff, and can generally give me answers when I need them. But I too just can't be bothered to care about them myself.
LibraScope it sucks cause some of the ideas in these mobile games would have made great full fledged titles. I mean the reason Disney worlds exist in UX is really so there was an excuse to have filler missions if it was a full fledged game it would have been super cool. Don’t even get me started on how one of the most interesting characters with some of the coolest designs and shit is getting relegated to a mobile game even though everyone would have loved a game about him
I just finished binge watching 3+ hours worth of your KH3 videos and I enjoyed all of it; I'm gonna throw my opinion on KH3 here but it'll be about everything I've watched from your videos. Discussing combat: 1) Magic, Links, and Attractions are all unbalanced and mishandled. When the base game came out, everybody complained how magic was overpowered (mainly due to cufflinks and early grand magic) so the Osaka team nerfed magic. However, it turned out Links and Attractions were FAR more overpowered, people just didn't know because people didn't use it because it wasn't that fun to use; form changes were how most people enjoyed the combat. When magic got nerfed, it still wasn't too bad cause the game was so easy, but when critical mode came out, they made it so punishingly difficult. All of the problems with the CORE COMBAT is showcased far more in Critical mode due to how unforgiving it is; being hit off-screen, magic being nerfed to a degree where you can only use fire up to 3-4 times, being one or two-shotted by pretty much any enemy or boss in the entire game at any point, and inconsistent enemy stagger allow for KH3 to be a tedious, annoying, and frustratingly unfun game to play on critical mode. Critical mode encouraged me to use Links and Attractions more so I could handle mob-fights easier, but that's when I found out how overpowered they were. It's odd how the only way to get Critical Converter as an ability is to play on the hardest difficulty where Attractions would be much better anyways. Links allows Sora to take massively reduced damage, he's completely UNKILLABLE during the whole duration, it does exponentially more damage than any magic spam could ever so magic is even more pointless, and it heals you upon usage which makes it the the most optimal play at nearly all points of the game. MANY people argue against this saying that if you don't like it then don't use it; If the player has to avoid using an option in combat because it's far too overpowered than anything else you have, then your game FAILED in its core game design and balancing- it must NEVER be up to the player to nerf/handicap themselves to get a fair challenge. Attractions are exactly the same as Links except you don't heal when you use it and it pops up randomly during a fight (but it has a high chance of popping up nonetheless). 2) Combo modifiers in the base-game are terrible. KH2 combo modifiers did more than just give you extra damage- they allowed Sora to close distance, close air distance, go straight into the air with an attack, knock enemies into the air, etc. All KH3 combo modifiers in the base game suck because you ultimately don't need them for any strategical use and the damage isn't even that much better; all of them are clunky and slow and leave Sora open for attacks with the long duration all for a tad bit more damage in your base-form only. Remind combo modifiers are great but it makes the base game modifiers even more pointless and crap. Due to the combo modifiers issue, KH3 Sora never feels like he grows his combat ability or exceeds better in his base-form as you go through the game- you feel the same from the beginning to end. KH2 Sora gets so many strong abilities and combo-modifiers that his base-form ultimately ends up being his strongest form by the end of the game due to how many options you have at your disposal and how fluently they work together. 3) Formchanges are the meat of the game but some formchanges are flat out better than others and some are not even worth using in critical mode or in Remind. Slow formchanges or formchanges that don't have a block are useless in critical mode cause you can easily get caught by an attack that could only be blocked to avoid damage; Ultimate form and double-form are the best forms near-undebatabley so. It's strange how there isn't an EZ code to keep you permanently in a formchange despite the game clearly not wanting you to be in base-form all that much on critical mode. 4) KH3 Remind is the best combat and gameplay in all of Kingdom Hearts 3, but it comes as paid DLC, takes place AFTER the base-game, and makes Links and Attractions pretty much non-existent (Links can still be used to get past DMs and what-not, but they're no longer overpowered due to the design of the bosses). KH3 Base Game and KH3 Remind are vastly different in how they play; for this reason, anybody who claims the Remind FIXED KH3 is outright-lying- it does nearly nothing to the base-game, it simply adds a bit more onto the end and is only for the hardcore people who enjoy mega-difficult fights. The most enjoyable part in all of KH3 for me is the paid-DLC that's only accessible after getting through the slog of the base game, for that reason I don't award many brownie points to Osaka team for Remind personally (not to mention a lot of Remind is retreading stuff anyways). There's more to say about combat, but I laid out just about most of my main points. As for the story now: 1) There's a massive disconnect between the gameplay and the story/cutscenes. Sora is the strongest he's ever been at the very beginning of the game and everybody, even PETE talks about him like he's back to being a weakling again. Apparently having your entire KH2 moveset (second form), flowmotion (I guess he got it from Dream Drop), shotlocks (never explained how he has this), attractions (never explained how he has this), running up walls (never explained how he can do this), and basically being able to defy gravity with his combos (never explained how he can do this) all at the beginning of the game makes someone a level 1 weakling in the eyes of the developers. 2) Characters are shown to be WAY TOO STRONG in cutscenes or WAY TOO WEAK in cutscenes. Marluxia can put Sora into a coma in Tangled, but it's never used or brought up again? Larxene can build an Ice Labyrinth in mere seconds despite only controlling lightning and never showing any sort of ability to do such a feat in any of the games? Larxene can blast Sora off a mountain with such strong winds despite only controlling lightning and never showing any sort of ability to do such a feat in any of the games? In the Keyblade Graveyard, the Organization is able to spawn hordes upon hordes upon hordes upon hordes upon hordes of heartless without ever stopping, but ONLY stop when YenSid comes through to make a path even though they could very easily continue spawning more hordes AT ANY POINT IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE WORLD? Young Xehanort, the final boss of Dream Drop Distance and the secret boss of Birth By Sleep, the same character who's capable of time-travel and time manipulation and is the young mastermind version of the old Xehanort, is getting pressed by a level 30ish Sora and a TOY??? Vanitas, the character who can summon endless unversed and was the final boss of Ventus's story in Birth By Sleep, the same character who can teleport anywhere at any time, is getting manhandled by Sully despite VERY EASILY BEING ABLE TO TELEPORT BACK TO SORA TO GET VENTUS'S HEART AGAIN AT ANY TIME IN THE ENTIRE STORY??? Terranort is able to 1v7 all the guardians of light by himself (despite Aqua, Riku, Sora, and Mickey easily being able to at least compete against him), but I'm supposed to believe that any of the guardians can handle a SINGLE ORG MEMBER BY THEMSELVES AT ALL??? 3) Massive plot devices are brought up in this game ALONE and lead to so many questions with no logical or consistent answers. Merlin put Kairi and Axel into a realm where "time doesn't matter and we can take as long as we need to complete our training." This was never used or brought up in any other game ever (would've been extremely important and helpful in KH1 and KH2), and I'm supposed to believe that Kairi and Axel trained for 17 years (throwing out a random number because there's nothing telling us how long they were in there and the game states that they can take as long as they want) and yet they only reappeared at the end of the game and were getting manhandled by the organization? Keyblades can break- how and why? Riku's keyblade broke against a simple heartless swarm, and he decided to leave his keyblade in the realm of darkness; then he just goes to YenSid and gets a new keyblade? It was stated in KH1 that the keyblade only changed appearance by changing the keychains, but apparently he can get rid of his blade and just get a new one? They treat keyblades like any other generic weapon in KH3 which makes keyblades feel less magical or unique and make them sucky. The whole sub-plot with the box which was just sequel baiting which feels like a crappy move considering how little the game explained its own plot. The gummiphone sucks in my opinion; really takes the tension out of everything when anybody can make a simple phone call to Sora to ask for assistance in dealing with an enemy. Along with this, "May your heart be your guiding key" is stupid. 4) The Disney worlds were 100% completely filler. You can remove them from the game in their entirety and nothing of value was lost. People TRY to defend the reasons for going to the worlds in KH3 but they don't work. 7 princesses of heart/light didn't mean jack because the 7 guardians were going to fight in the Keyblade Graveyard regardless, the box was a worthless subplot and meant nothing, seeing if toys/puppets could have hearts seems rather pointless since there exists all sorts of talking entities and creatures that obviously have a heart (not to mention Xemnas explained how a being with no heart replaces it with a heart the first chance it gets), Vanitas wants to use screams and horror because......... sure. There's so much more to say but by god I can't stand this game. The best part of KH3 is KH3 Remind, but when the best part of your game is completely separate from the base-game, then your game is mediocre to me.
I don't necessarily agree 100% with every point, but I'm like... 98% with you on all of this, lol :D Don't really have much to add either, unfortunately. I'm assuming since you said three hours, you watched my original launch KH3 video too. But either way even just ONE of those two videos is a lot to watch, so I absolutely really appreciate you taking the time to do so. And I'm glad you got something out of it!
I wonder how come they took 6 years if they made a recap for the entire series and a sequel bait for this game. They could have just used the gummiphone for the recap like in dream drop distance instead of what they did here. I wonder if they played god of war 2018 to make it to where enemies don’t attack you unless they are onscreen.
Actually 2:05:45 , some bosses are weaker to some attacks. Larxene have her weakness to AOE while her clone phase, you can ultima shotlock her right before her DM and take like 3-4 bars , Saix has the same mechanic as KH2 that blizzard drops his berserker charge and Marluxia has a opening if you use fire when he has armor. Vanitas has a DM and keyblade surf skips , Xemnas Dm can be skipped by using Dive attacks , etc.. Not mentioned Air step is huge to find openings. There's quite bit of player freedom if you go REALLY in deph with these fight and slowly the community is discover them.
Like I said with Vanitas DM skip, most of that stuff is either black and white/do it or you're disadvantaging yourself, or doesn't really change the way you're playing; it's just changing the aesthetic choice you're making. It's like arguing there's depth in choosing Blizzard instead of Fire. They're fundamentally the same thing. But more so, most of those things are completely hidden to the point where only blind experimentation will uncover it. Again, hinting at this stuff would much improve things.
@@LibraScope They actually gave you hints to Saix blizzard strat and Marluxia fire strat when you die. Other stuff like DM skip , should be a thing that the player discover themselves.
Like I said in the video, I think there's a line between what players should be expected to discover, and what the game should tell you. Also similar to what I said in the video, I think fans are acting like they figured out a lot more on their own than they actually did. I think a LOT of the solutions and secrets people have found were piecemeal, and were brought together to create a set of strategies and a deeper understanding for the community at large. So I don't even think the community itself really figured this stuff out as individuals, which is what's being expected of IGN and Gamespot. I think the community doesn't realize how much worse off they'd have been if everyone was expected to do it all themselves. Just look at the sheer amount of people IN the community that are complaining about how confusing, obtuse, and difficult the fights are. That indicates there's a problem with conveyance.
Ahh, you mean because of how checkpoints were handled? Yeah, it really puts a damper on Crit, and makes exploration a painful endeavor. And the worst part is I don't ever see it getting fixed. So any future playthroughs require that you choose between exploring worlds but having the combat be too easy, or having more rewarding combat but exploration being a huge risk.
@@LibraScope too long for a Kingdom hearts video. Anyways who the hell am I to say anything. Good luck and check out my new videos if u ever want to! Peace.
Whilst i did enjoy your video and respect your opinion, there are some areas in which i disagree with some points: Your statement on the relevance of KH2's worlds, your viewpoint on formchanges as well as Sora's importance in the worlds of KH3 (and what he got from it). -some of the non- optional Disney worlds (even on a second visit) didn'y contribute to the change or progression of the plot since sora would end up in the same position of knowledge when it came to locatig his friends/organisation at start and the end. (Collisium, agrabah and Halloween town are ones i can think off). -also think you really do undersell the nuance of formchanges, while most are AOEs, the area in which they cover, the angles/directions the hitboxes cover as well as their speed of the attacks of some do differetiate most of them. This is ignoring the differing abilities they get with the keyblade and the form (going as far as trade-offs of certain evasive/defendive actions). -Besides Arendalle, a lot of the events in the Disney worlrs in KH3 would've gone differently without Sora's presence and involvement (e.g. Jack Sparrow and co would've been dead if sora didn't save them from the kracken and vulture), even the characters acknowledgingthe importance of Sora and co in their own goals in the world narrative (e.g. Woody and Eugene/Flynn asking for Sora and co's help since they knew they weren't able to handle the situation by themselves, even woody flat out saying they wouldn't have made it as far as they did without Sora and co.) Anyways, I realldy did like the vid. Also want say thanks on those final closing words Re:Mind. As someone who really liked (and still does) enjoy the base game of KH3, Re:mind was underwhelming for me. Found myself agreeing with a lot of the more critical reviews for the most part.
Formchanges are certainly one of the mechanics with the least issues for sure, because yeah, the general attacks and options they give you are definitely varied. I was more specifically talking about the formchange finishers mostly just being AoE (and many of the related Shotlocks). That's likely one of those issues that comes from me already discussing formchanges at greater length in my original KH3 video. I might not have clarified that well enough here :) As for the stuff related to the Disney world importance, and Sora's involvement, it likely depends on how one interprets the events. Like for me, in most of the worlds in KH3, Sora and company always seemed to be on the back foot. They rarely took initiative, instead just sort... of tagging along as events happened around them. As such, it felt like a solution would arrive for the Disney characters whether he was there or not, particularly in worlds that followed movie plots closely, where we know these characters already CAN solve their problems without Sora. Like yeah, one can definitely argue that Rapunzel might not have made it to town without Sora's protection. But she and Flynn are also clearly capable of defending themselves. Not to mention, in the movie she makes it to town just fine without Sora even existing in that version of the story. So the issue is more so that his 'impact' on the story only really stems from the fact that the Disney characters from the original plot need to be made arbitrarily helpless to justify needing his help. It just feels cheap to - in every world - basically say "Heartless/Nobodies/Unversed are here, so now the only way the story can continue is if Sora carves an opening through them so the normal plot events can happen.", and leave it at that. It makes his involvement more artificial, rather than organically integrated. Which while yes, this criticism can be leveled at many of the previous worlds in other games to some degree, I don't think it's near as ubiquitous usually, because that's not the only way they try to integrate him into every world in said previous games. Oftentimes they'll instead separate Sora's journey from that of the main journey to some degree. Sora has little to do with Alice's story in KH1 for example. He's getting the evidence for her trial, sure. But he's not just following her through the movie plot. He's an active participant in his own journey across Wonderland, and barely interacts with Alice. Or in Monstro. Instead of the world being just Sora following Pinocchio through his movie, it only takes place inside the belly of Monstro himself, and Sora is chasing Riku for his own reasons beyond helping Pinocchio. That world would play out largely the same even if Pinocchio was taken out of the picture, which is telling about the way it was written. In Olympus in KH2, our job largely has nothing to do with what Hercules is doing at all. We're on a related but completely separate journey to get Hades to give Herc a break. Or in Timeless River. Yes, we help classic Mickey along the way. But we didn't come to Timeless River randomly, or come to it to specifically help classic Mickey. We came to save the Cornerstone from Pete, and Mickey's goals just so happen to overlap with that, so we team up with him. In these cases, Sora's journey intersects with and may be driven to some degree by the events of the movies. But he's taking an active role in things independent from that plot, rather than just following Alice, Pinocchio, Hercules, or Mickey the whole time, fending off Heartless so they can get to their next plot point. I don't necessarily take issue with Sora just following and being a protector in SOME worlds, nor with the primary twist on a Disney plot being little more than that the villain is evil because of the influence of Darkness, and Heartless or Org members hanging around. That's fine in moderation, and Sora has helped others since day one. It's an integral part of what makes him the 'best boy' of the series :) But Kingdom Hearts 3 does it this way in basically every world, never letting Sora go out on his own to make his own impact. He's nearly always just following the lead of the characters who face the real problems in that world, and just HAPPENS to run into Org members in the process as a way to justify it being in a Kingdom Hearts game. Or worse, like in Arendelle, he does nothing but run around blindly doing COMPLETELY unrelated stuff until the very end when he teams up with Marshmallow, lol. I appreciate you taking the time to watch the video by the way! I know it's a long one, lol. Glad you enjoyed it! And thanks for the response :D
@@LibraScope I think there's a little more the the point of rapunzel, since in their original film they weren't portrayed as shilled and talented fighters, so it isn't much of a stretch to say they weren't capable alone. It's also supported by Flynn rmrunning away from the heartless when we first see him (having to rely on him to protect him). At the end of the day, these heartless/nobodies/unversed are creatures that pose a threat to the universe and are able to make keyblade weilders and seasoned warriors struggle. Personally one thing i thought anout KH is how they made the discovery characters sometimes stronger than what they really would be. I do understand how it can be percieved as cheap, but it's still an understandable and seriousness threat. Also i personally don't think whether sora is seperated or not from Disney characters or not is important in terms of seeing sora's impact in the world. The way i see it is that as long as Sora's impact is seen and identifiable, since it gives him purpose in that world, on top of more opportunities for more character interactions/building. E.g.if sora were alone doing his own thing, we wouldhave gotten to see the interactive moments of him establishing a connection with rapunzel, nor seeing the Big Brother side of him when taking care of Boo, or him having those interactions with Hiro and crew (as well as saving them from the heartless). The Protector role can still allow for new situations and character relationships to happen, and can still lead ro different results. Tangles and monsters have varied character relationships as well as plotpoints in those worlds.
@@Megajmaster1000 Sure. Like I said, it's the lack of variety that really causes the biggest issue, combine with the fact that the majority of the confrontation that actually involves Sora ends up feeling manufactured. The Heartless rarely do anything but impede progress anymore. They're used as a very generic barrier that doesn't really play with the Disney worlds in meaningful ways. I mean, wasn't it cool that a Heartless was directly responsible for the crimes Alice was being imprisoned for, and we were finding evidence of that? There's nothing even approaching that in KH3. Everything just feels separated neatly into disparate sections. You've got Heartless being arbitrary roadblocks. You've got Sora as a generic protector to stop the Heartless. And then you've got the Disney plot doing it's thing, which is usually only impeded because of Heartless attacks. They don't really meaningfully impact each other. Most KH3 worlds all largely can be summarized with "Sora and the gang randomly appear in this world, only to find that the Heartless/Nobodies/Unversed/Organization are attacking! Also [Disney plot]." There's rarely much variance to that. Again, look at something like Monstro. That world's not even about the Heartless really. It's actually unique within KH1 as being the only world the gang doesn't actively choose to go to. And there's no main villain. That world is entirely about the tension growing between Sora and Riku. It showcases the divergence between the characters as Riku steadily stands further within the darkness. But it also shows that their friendship is valuable to both of them, when they team up to help save Pinocchio. That makes it stand out from the other worlds, just like Wonderland stands out, and Olympus stands out. Yes, most of the worlds tell all, or at least a portion of that Disney movie's plot. But it's the fact that there are outliers both big and small that spice things up, which gives it life. I think the bottom line is that when we're nearly 20 years into this franchise, and they've had this many titles to explore and perfect the way they can tell these stories, it's not really a great look that everything instead becomes diluted down into a simple formula that isolates all of the factors from each other. And I get that a large part of that is the fault of Disney, and the animation studios for those movies often REALLY not wanting their precious characters to be used in creative ways. But like I said in the video, it still ended up in the final product. Next to nothing happens for the main plot during these worlds. But also, these characters hardly interact with the Disney plots in interesting ways either. Org members sending Heartless after you or mocking you, or turning the already evil bad guy even more evil with darkness doesn't really do anything meaningful. It's just roadblocks and oil slicks intended to impede plot progress.
@@LibraScope the heartless do actively put sora and co in situations that never occured in disney worlds. Like Disney characters getting posessed and questioning ghe strengh to hold on to their own identity, or resurrecting corrupted allies and revealing triths about the characters we didn'y know, or perhaps the potential of tye qoeld as a resourxe for pure dark power. It's not like they aren't there just to annog sora. Also i have to say, i really didn't like Alice's world (or a lot of the worlds in KH1). Most felt like they stuck too close to the narrative of the movies without the charm that made them, ironically... i feel Alice's world suffers from the problems you critic KH3's worlds for. The heartless is just a roadblock, it's doing it's thing for no greater purpose than just to screw sora and the people in the Disney world, it could ne removed from the story without any huge loss to the narrative. Also i don't think it's very accurate the way you summed up the worlds in KH3. Especially when the majority of heartless/nobodies/unversed serve the org which have objectives that aren't attacking the world. I mean Mark and Larx come to mind simce they didn't want to attack the world, they wanted to observe and study the PoL in thise worlds to see how they would chamge and potentially be used. The interference of Sora made it harder as well as challenged their outlook on hownthe PoL should be used (marx kept changing his attitude on Rapunzel being set free from her prison). Monstro's world was one of the netter worlds in that game. But only for the moments between sora and riku and displaying a shift in their friendship. That's what really grips you about the world and nothing else, you don't know what riku is doing until the game decides for sora and riku to meet in that world. A lot of that world, you're just under the assumption of protecting pinocchio/finding a way out of monstro is what you're meant to be doing. You say that the outliers spice it up, but you can't ignore that most if the worlds in KH3 fall under this also, especially if they have their own original story. There's nothing wrong with having a standard formula especially if it can still be used in different and effective ways, hence why a lot of adventure stories use the hero's journey template. Again i have said why i disagree with the sentiment of "next to nothing happens for the main plot" . However when there are worlds such as tangled, Monsters, Big hero, Olympus, toy story and even Pirated in some cases. I think saying the characters hardly interact doesn't do them justice. Especially when all of them at least have a moment in which sora has an intimate experience that's meaningful to the Disney character, or the Disney character giving sora a talk/advice thst is meaningful to him. Also, in regards to what you say about the data battles being too restrictive to a pattern. I recommend watching trueblade seeker's videos. They really do show off what cam be done with magic/reprisals on the battles. Also, the game over screens for ghe data battles do recommend using certain types magic against certain org members
Yeah, editing woes. It's kind of difficult to change parts of the script after you've recorded the voiceover for the video already. So I couldn't really mention that some of the game over tips are mildly useful. Though how much that helps is difficult to say anyway, since most of them are still pretty useless, lol. As for the fact that there are technically other ways to battle the Data fights, there's a stark difference between doing things for style, and doing things for strategy. And there's also a difference between normal player execution, and extremely high level execution. I've seen a lot of the insane ways people like Bloody take down some of these bosses too. But similar to what Trueblade is doing, this is usually extremely specific, extremely high level, and in Trueblade's case, often very unoptimal. It's not a choice anyone would make strategically. And even then, there's not much thought involved in these strategies either. In putting them together? Yeah, there's a ton. But in executing them? No. You still execute, or you fail. There's little in the way of moving between options and strategies as circumstances change during a fight, for meaningful shifts in risk VS reward. And as such, it's still very much a restrictive, execution-based set of fights. Which again, is totally fine. They're just still rather shallow for your average player. I agree there's nothing wrong with having a formula. But I genuinely don't think they did much of anything with the formula in KH3 that set worlds apart. Also, like I said in the video, it doesn't really matter what Larxene and Marluxia, etc. are doing in the Disney worlds, because ultimately it has absolutely no bearing on the plot in the end. It's busy work that could be a means to an end, but is never actually utilized in the story itself, making it meaningless filler. So whether they want to attack the world or not, their actions have no real impact on anything. I mean, think about this for a second... Sora is being brought to these worlds because his heart is telling him he needs to be there. He doesn't know why. He doesn't choose. He goes because his heart wills it. Then you've got an org member like Marluxia, who genuinely only wants to observe, right? He's not planning to hurt Rapunzel with the Nobodies, or anything like that. He's just watching. Therefore, the ONLY reason there's conflict, is because Sora's heart brings him there in the first place, which means Marluxia has to summon Nobodies and Heartless to try and stop him. That's about as arbitrary as it gets, because the entire conflict of that world effectively only exists because Sora is randomly whisked off to that world. If the game brought this up as a conflict for Sora, making him feel bad for just following his heart, and thus, putting all of these people in danger, that would justify it. Because the conflict there would be "Is Sora avoiding his responsibilities by letting his heart choose, rather than making choices for himself?". But it doesn't, and as such, we're just suppose to accept that the 'research' these Org members are doing have no bearing on the main plot, and the only reason there's conflict in most of these worlds, is because Sora is forced to show up in them in the first place. His heart is forcing him into a fight that wouldn't exist if it didn't do so; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Dude I 100% agree with the data fights. There just feels like theres something missing when compared to KH2's. I honestly felt nothing when I beat most of them. I liked Xemnas, Xigbar, and Marluxia's fights though.
I enjoyed pretty much all of them myself. And I'm excited to play around with them again if I can ever get my hands on a PS5 (performance on some of the fights can be pretty rough on PS4 Pro if you don't drop the console resolution all the way down to 720p). But yeah, they're just so specific in their demands, that it's hard to be too enthusiastic about replaying them. Glad someone else agrees :D
@@LibraScope I'm not eveb thinking about the ps5 until I see trailers for FF7R part 2 xD. Also cool to get a response from the man himself! I've been really liking your content, so I hope you keep finding success!
@@TuskyBaby The disc drive on my PS4 isn't doing so hot, so the sooner I can get a PS5, the better, lol. Glad you like the content! I certainly hope it keeps going on the trajectory it has been so far this year!
Super late yo this video, but kh3 was my first kh game. Since ive played through every game except coded and khux/dr on standard and the numbered titles on crit. With that experience under my belt, kh3 still feels like the best game to me. It may be that playing the other games after makes you notice the little things like jump magic or block canceling. 2 while smooth, never felt as engaging to me for some reason. It might be that reflect spam just feels meh to me at times, or that the worlds felt less engaging design wise than 1 and 3. The story of all the games is clunky, and the arguments about which story is better tend to feel like this ones a 2.1 out of 5 and this ones a 2.2 out of 5. I love the clunky story tbh though.
That's fair. Taste is taste after all, and we can all like or dislike things for different reasons :) And I can absolutely understand why the limitations or choices of the previous games might feel clunky when coming from 3. Ultimately, I still think 3 has worse problems than 2 in terms of the raw balance being broken. But especially on easier difficulties or if you don't care that much about it being balanced, it's absolutely the faster paced, more frenetic game.
i love how your the first one to take woody roasting young xehanort seriously. honestly thats one of my favorite scenes due to the fact woody had no chill
@@LibraScope i mean yeah. to be honest though i feel like its one of those scenes that didnt need a point. yeah it contridicts a friendship but woody nor even sora donald and goofy know anything about xehanort. so for those characters its easy for them to make that assumption. you did make some good points which i will respect. there is one world that i wish was saved for kh3 and wouldve been a great replacement for arendelle (fyi is the world that sucks the most) the grid. the tron stuff couldve been used to link to that plotpoint of the computer room in twilight town that was introduced in the beginning and never followed up on. i honestly thought we were gonna get a second visit for that but no it was for winnie the fucking pooh.
@@thexarchives I think I'd be willing to let stuff like that Toy Story scene go as 'not needing a point', if most of the other scenes in the game weren't so woefully awful a lot of the time. Letting certain scenes just 'be' is great. As someone who is a huge fan of sitcoms, and slice-of-life storytelling, I'm 100% for that. But it shouldn't come into play in a story like this, until AFTER you've built compelling, meaningful, well crafted scenes for the rest of the narrative. And regardless, that still doesn't change the fact that the line could've very easily been changed to actually be valuable, without effecting ANYTHING else negatively. Again, it just reeks of lazy, trope-y writing that nobody actually cared about when they were haphazardly tossing it in. As a big fan of Tron though, I too would've loved to see (and also genuinely expected) something Tron related to return in KH3. Might've been a Disney issue. But still, I'd have loved to see either The Grid or Space Paranoids make a return!
@@LibraScope for sure. The themeing of loss in tron legacy wouldve been a perfect fit. I mean what if sora trying to access the data twilight town ended up going into the grid instead. Imagine how Amazing the grid wouldve looked in kh3
7:51 if the guardians of light don’t fight in the key blade war the organization will force the princesses to clash with the darknesses. You learn this is Arrendelle, and it gives context to Marluxia in Tangled. The doomsday never comes because the guardians find all their lights. But I see what you mean, there’s not much of a purpose for you being there, like sealing the world. I understand your critiques but I’m fine with overlooking it.
I’d agree except the guardians have kairi, who is one of the new 7 hearts. So even if they left the organization alone the maximum number of princesses they could ever find would be six. So they literally can’t start without the good guys no matter which option they choose. So why are we fighting them?
@@roxasvanitas1 That's a good point, but if they are willing to impose the fight onto those 6 princesses, they'll do it to Kairi too. Just cause she's with the guardians doesn't mean they'll leave her alone. With that being said, imagine a fight against the organization at Yen Sid's tower to protect Kairi. That would have been sick.
Also I think that you may have forgotten the varieties of these fights. You said that magic would not be very effective against these bosses...... So in KH2, blizzard would just hurt them, while also dealing extra damage to Axel because pokemon types just got reversed for KH2, fire would also only just do damage, but it would also not add revenge value in final form ( which they sort of brought back for KH3 btw, hopefully they fix that), magnet was useless against them, thunder would also just do damage to them, and it can change depending on what drive form you are in, too. So let’s compare this to KH3, fire just does great single target damage, blizzard doesn’t freeze them and is also single target but takes a little longer to cast and correct me if I am wrong but I believe that they cost a little more mp in KH3, so they were basically a little bit inferior to fire, Aero can actually do damage to them and can bring you up high with flow motion, making it arguably better than magnet, and thunder takes up a large space for doing good damage and can even be used in small instances to help like with Marluxia’s weird floating triangles and Yozora’s triangle move. The difference with mp in KH3 is that all of the spells do a little better damage than regular combos, and I believe is actually used more in these fights than in KH2. I really don’t get the idea where you think that KH2 has more variety than KH3. Ok, let’s do a comparison, so in KH2, when the boss was attacking, you could either guard or dodge the attack by rolling, gliding, and using reflect to reflect the damage back. So first off, reflect isn’t in KH3 which is like ;(, but secondly reprisals after blocking are basically the new reflect sort of? You block the enemy’s attacks and when you know he is open you counterattack and they can be stunned and you can deal damage to them after that. Air stepping is also amazing because it closes the distance between you and the enemy instantly. There are many situations where the enemy is too far away but airstepping will get you to him instantly to keep hurting him. I just don’t agree that there is less to be thinking about and doing in KH3 than in KH2. That is my humble opinion.
I'm just gonna post some stuff from other responses I've already made to others in this comment section, so that I don't have to type it all out again :) The more relaxed expectations for execution in the 2FM Data fights led to much more varied strategies that didn't always revolve around just punishing openings in a straightforward way, or maximizing DPS. I'm not talking about fight breaking exploits like the Fenrir lock strat. I'm talking about things like running low on MP, and so being able to choose between an Ether, a Drive Form, or pulling out Stitch to try and get an MP refill, depending on what suits you as an individual player the best. Someone who may be terrible at timing items can choose to use Stitch or a Drive Form. But someone who's the opposite might want to save their Drive gauge for a different tactic later on, like an emergency heal if they get low on HP, or a way to skip a DM, etc. There are a lot of more grand-scale choices to make in 2FMs Data fights which don't always have a clearly optimal option. Sora is flexible in 2FM specifically because the fights are more lenient, and because his options don't all focus on DPS like most of them do in KH3. Some people use Peter Pan because they like the chance to stunlock. Others like him because Tinker Bell provides a safety buffer. Some people like Limit Form for the DPS of the Limits. Others for the fact that using them well heals you. The choices have multiple meanings for multiple types of people with different levels of skill. Most every option in KH3 during the Data fights comes down to how to maximize damage output, and that's about it, because the strict execution doesn't allow for as much on-the-fly strategy. You manage resources more so that you can maximize DPS at the right time, rather than because you want to keep options open in case you make a mistake. Just the fact that Fire is a close range attack that surrounds you, Thunder is a targeted long range attack, and Blizzard is a non-homing projectile that goes straight through enemies makes them far more varied to play around on a grand scale than the spells in KH3. I mean, KH3 doesn't even allow you to use Limits during the Data fights, since you have no party members, taking yet another option away from the player. I think people get too caught up in finding Data fights difficult, when they should instead be focused more on what makes them engaging. What makes the Data fights in 3 most engaging is the execution. Which is fine, but it's not the same as KH2's. What makes the Data fights in 2FM engaging is that you can use a wide swathe of options for a wider variety of reasons that often aren't even about damage dealing. Again, I don't think that makes the fights in 3 inherently worse. But it does make them more restrictive and shallow, and doesn't do much to solve issues with your ability options in base KH3, so much as just throws most of it out of the window unless you can find the ultra specific holes in balance that they didn't fill. I appreciate the comments by the way! And the time you took to watch the video :) I hope you enjoyed it!
LibraScope I do understand that there are many ways to handle the KH2 fights, but I think the difference is different than what you might think. You said that these fights were representative of Mysterious Figure from BBS, which was horrible, like OH MY GOODNESS that fight was bad! The reason why though was because that fight really had only one option to win. And when I mean one option, I mean you either win or not. The only thing that you need to do in that fight was use surges when you could and dodge and heal for the times when you weren’t surging ( except if you were Terra, and if you were, I am very sorry for you). The fight was brainless. There was no real challenge, you weren’t thinking about what his moves were after you attacked because you knew spamming dodge roll would dodge everything. Then in KH2, we got real bosses. They had patterns that you needed to learn in order to win, that had multiple different ways of avoiding them by blocking, dodging, reflecting, gliding, etc. Using a drive form (which have been expanded upon in KH3) would have allowed to have a different move set with upgraded movement abilities which was great. There was no longer any “one way to deal with the fight” scenario where Sora had to do one thing to deal with the boss the entire fight. Then in KH3 things change a lot. Sora has been given a lot of control during fights. If you were to say, start comboing the boss the moment they were about to do a new attack and payed attention, you could dodge or block their attack in the middle in order to still keep yourself from getting hit because you payed attention. You can even hit the boss when they aren’t open and have super armor to get some small extra damage which rewards players a little for paying attention to the boss’s attacks and still be able to hit them while also not getting attacked. (This by the way feels like a better substitute for reflect since reflect did lots of damage for blocking the enemy’s attacks and waiting for them to get stunned so you can hit them after you cast reflect, whereas if you want to reprisal or hit them during their super armor, you get a small but comfortable amount of damage by attacking when you are in danger, making it sort of risk vs. reward. You have to learn the bosses move set to be able to reprisal or attack during their super armored attacks, which I believe I believe is more engaging.) Also I just REALLY want to say that THE MUSIC IN THESE FIGHTS ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOD........ Anyway, for me, KH3 has now been my favorite game in the series (FIGHT ME, THATS MY OPNION), and if you don’t feel that way, then I am sorry for you. These new fights are honestly some of the most amazing fun I have had, and right now I am challenging myself to beat them with all pro codes and even though I get close sometimes but still die, it is just so fun that I have not gotten mad from dying because I know that it’s fair and that if I just put in the precious time, that I will be able to beat them again... I am really sorry if you don’t really like KH3 that much, I really am, but my opinion is that these are the best (and hardest) fights in a video game I have ever had. Thank you for reading this... if you did.
Well to be clear, I said that these fights were what you'd get if Mysterious Figure's design philosophy was actually used to make a good fight. And I want to reiterate that by the way, that I think these KH3 fights ARE good fights. But they don't have the depth of KH2's Data fights. Mysterious Figure by contrast is an absolute trash fight. Awful. But it could still make a decent encounter if done well, as these KH3 Data bosses have proven. But the reason Mysterious Figure is bad is not because you basically only have one option for winning. Many puzzles in games only have one solution, but that doesn't make them bad. Platforming games like Super Meat Boy highly restrict player options to the point where there's often only one solution, but those can still be fantastic. What's weak about Mysterious Figure is that the options you have for winning are not engaging on an execution level, nor strategically thoughtful, nor do they flex the muscles of any of the systems players have at their disposal. It's not challenging to spam dodge, or spam surges. There's no real thought to it on the execution side of things, or on the preparation side. That's the big difference between Mysterious Figure and the Re:Mind Data fights, is that the Data fights require very high levels of engaging execution. You can't just spam to win, and there's not much luck involved, unlike Mysterious Figure. Both heavily limit your options in a similar way. But the Data fights in KH3 still make fighting through those limitations rewarding, which Mysterious Figure does not. Again, the big factor that makes KH3's Data fights so limiting compared to KH2, is that the vast majority of your options boil down to one of two things: dealing damage, or avoiding damage. There's rarely any concern for anything else. Sure, we can discuss the tiny differences between dodging a specific attack in a combo VS blocking that same attack... but if you can't punish that attack with a Reprisal without getting punished yourself, blocking and dodging are virtually the same choice in that situation. Neither of them can do anything for you in that situation other than avoid damage. So much of KH3's design boils down to that; choices that don't matter because they're virtually identical, or choices that don't matter because one option is clearly optimal. If you CAN safely get a Reprisal after blocking an attack in a combo, that's objectively the better option every time when compared to dodging the attack instead. And if you CAN safely get a Reprisal, that means a Critical Reprisal is objectively the optimal way to do it. It then simply comes down to executing the block well enough to get the Critical Reprisal. There's no option; no thought. Just execution. It's fine that you enjoy these fights. I do too, though you seem to think I don't, lol. Again, I think they're good fights; about as good as I could imagine battles in KH3's combat system being. But that doesn't change the fact that they're relatively shallow. That doesn't mean they're bad. It's just not what I personally wanted from them. They're still the best part of KH3, hands down :)
2:17:30 The community is upset because the reviewers LITERALLY said that they didn't finished the dlc and didn't bother to learn the fight and said that you need to be level 99 with all max out to be them and that's a lie. A major aspect of the DLC is the bosses, these bosse are mandatory to progress to the last episode. Saying this is like ''oh i didn't beat Dark Souls 3 two last bosses so i couldn't see the rest of dlc so it's bad.'' Also they some reviewer said the bosses were unfair and too hard. It's simple , they could just said ''For what's trying to be , it's good dlc for those who like Superbosses and wante more end game content, otherwise ain't worth to get it'' instead of lie and saying bullshit. Also someone them review Remind episode and entire dlc.
They didn't say you needed level 99, nor that they didn't try to learn the fights. They said that they FELT like they needed to get to level 99. IGN: "These are some of if not the hardest boss battles in the entire franchise, very clearly intentionally so, and I didn’t even have a hope of fighting them on normal difficulty below level 90. I did (at level 75), and found the battles so unrelentingly oppressive that I leveled Sora up to the max of 99 in order to feel like I had a fighting chance." Gamespot: "If you didn't grind near or all the way to the level 99 cap in the main campaign--and there was no need to--Limit Cut will probably feel like an insurmountable challenge. I'm still working my way through the bosses, and I seriously doubt that I'll ever actually beat them all. The ocean that exists between the difficulty of the base game and the data bosses is jarring." And they also said that they'd spent time trying to learn the fights. It sounds like you're putting words in their mouths to justify your anger. They were transparent about trying as many of the fights as they could. They were transparent about not being able to complete them. And as I said, the GAME is largely to blame for making it so difficult to try the DLC from another file, and for not preparing players for that sort of challenge. It's really that simple. It's important to note as well that IGN at least confirmed that they still looked up the secret episode to be informed about it. So literally the ONLY thing they didn't get to experience is actually fighting Yozora, Master Xehanort, and Xion. IGN: "...and I’ve wrestled with whether the ultimate satisfaction of beating them is worth the asking price - especially given the fairly lackluster reward for doing so, a brief tease of a starkly different future for Kingdom Hearts than what’s come before. And while its revelations definitely shocked me at first, the more I think about it, the less it means to me as a fan of this franchise." Also, people seem to be under the impression that this is the reason why the scores were lower. But they mostly praised that section. IGN literally said that the ReMind Episode was the biggest issue: "That first section, which must be completed before you can tackle the latter, is perhaps Re Mind’s biggest misfire." Ultimately like I said, if we're going to argue that they can't discuss their opinions without finishing LimitCut/Secret, then nobody else can either until they finish the game with EZ and Pro codes activated. Not everyone can be that good at a game. But that does not preclude them from discussion of their opinions in a professional setting. That being said, I appreciate you taking the time to make it through the video, as well as your willingness to discuss :)
@@LibraScope To me, beating the game wiht codes isn't necessary, just using the codes to get a idea of their works is enough but a review should AT LEAST finish all 3 episode. That's the major content of the DLC. How can you say have a opinion on the bosses and say if theyre' good or not if they can't beat them? You don't need beat the game again to get opinion on the codes , you need to beat the bosses to actually get a idea. It's like saying you didn't finished a game's main stsory because the last 3 bosses are too hard. The codes are just like a Heaven or Hell thing. The bosses are main thing of a entire part of this dlc. Also the marketing for limit cut was clear. It was gonna be hard bosses. If they can't beat, the review shouldn't review based on a number scored but should just say ''Is this worth the priece? yes if you're x and no if you aren't into y''. It would be honest review.. Btw i like you're video. I just think , people should review a game or dlc when you completed it at least the main stuff.
@@LibraScope Also Gamespot said this : ''Data bosses aren't really feasible unless you're over-leveled'', this is just a lie and IGN said ''Every Kingdom Hearts has included a tough optional boss or two, and that’s totally fine, but including over a dozen new battles that are orders of magnitude more difficult than anything else in the relatively easy Kingdom Hearts 3 makes them a disorienting challenge to tackle'' When KH2FM had similar thing and yes , 2FM's Data battles are WAY harder than anything in the game on proud.
But they barely touched on the quality of the bosses. And regardless, arguing that you can't tell whether a boss or piece of content is good or not based on whether you can beat it or not is false. I can't beat Spelunky. But I've gotten to the end several times; enough to know whether it's good or not. Some people just struggle with certain things; it's really that simple. They shouldn't be expected to beat it just to have an opinion. Most people can't beat Vanitas Remnant in BBS without cheese strats. But they can still have opinions on how poorly designed it is. Sure, the marketing for LimitCut was technically clear. But let's be real... nobody ACTUALLY thought it would be this difficult. We can debate the value of a numbered score all day (something I'm personally against). But that doesn't change the fact that the content of the review was abundantly clear who it was talking to, what they'd finished, and what they'd thought about it.
That quote from Gamespot to me is a statement of opinion in the context of the rest of the piece, where they make clear that they're not talking absolutes. As for the other quote from IGN, 2FM didn't lock story content behind the Data fights. Square CHOSE to do that with ReMind when they didn't have to, so I don't think the reviewer should be punished for Square's decision.
Kingdom Hearts III is fine. Total blast. Yes it has its flaws like any other game and most certainly any other Kingdom Hearts game. I still don’t think KH2 is all that (the first is still my fav) The people bitching about it are doing so still having their bloody tampon shoved deep in. They’d feel better if only they’d remember to change them.
That sounds like a needlessly harsh conclusion, don't you think? Just because people disagree, doesn't mean they're doing it out of needless anger, stupidity, spite, etc.
@@jaysony8587 I don't disagree. But arguing that everyone who disagrees with you is 'blabbering' in a 'needlessly harsh' way is naive and close minded. There are also plenty of people who partake in needlessly blind praise too, but it would be unfair and unjustifiable for them to be lumped in with other people who take a more nuanced approach to their praise.
No no no. No. Don’t be twisting my words now ma’am. I never said that anyone who had criticisms of the game where this and that nor here or there. I too have criticisms of the game. I never claimed it was a perfect little 10 out of 10 muah muah muah. Their criticisms are my criticisms and vice versa. “Blabbering” and “needlessly harsh” obviously pertain to the ones that along with their disections are calling this game trash, unworthy of the Kingdom Hearts brand, and one if not THE biggest gaming disappointments of their life. That right there is extreme and uncalled for. At the end of the day, why do people play videogames? To be able to escape for a bit and have fun. Not to mention that along with the emotionally effective ending, the game is that - pure basic FUN. And that, in my book, equates to a good game. Plain and simple. Simple & clean 👍🏻
@@jaysony8587 I prefer sir :P I guess I don't get the point of your initial comment then. I don't feel like my video is that way. And I don't recall seeing anyone in the comments with such an extreme stance. That being said, people play games for a lot of different reasons, and what's 'fun' to someone is largely based on their on preferences. I for example did not find the ending to KH3 even remotely emotional, nor did I find the game more than a moderate amount of fun most of the time. The quality of a game is generally more about how the end product fits (or doesn't fit) well with the goals of the product itself. If a car is trying to be an economy car, it's a problem if it's expensive and gets bad gas mileage.
