The "anti-infantry" ui tooltip is not always given due to an actual bonus vs infantry but sometimes due to animations and the number of enemies hit per strike by each entity. Think of it sort of like a reverse duelist trait. Duelist tooltip is often given to single entity units that only hit 1-4 entities per strike, making them a poor choice vs high entity number enemies. Whereas anti-infantry tooltipped units may hit a great number of enemy entities per strike making them strong vs ablot of infantry units. The number of hits per strike is not at all visible from within the game but can be checked by looking at the unit's data in the game's databases.
i wish the ingame encyclopedia went into a lot of detail like the number of entities hit. theres so much hidden stats for units and spells that dont fit into the UI.
That actually makes sense. But its logical that Legend would go with the logic that someone at CA just typed it there because they maybe expected that unit to be anti infantry and then forgot to remove it later in development and nobody really cared about it. But it was weird that it happened multiple times during all 3 warhammer games. And the animation thing makes more sense than just someone typed it in "because".
@@awellner3285 hell, even if it's hidden away in like an out of battle roster book that shows off extra details about units not on the unit card, and gives some hits and tips on how to make use of them.
I think they should separate anti-infantry into anti-small and anti-horde. Anti-small for units like greatswords and anti-horde for area-of-effect units. The main difference being that anti-small can generally fight characters.
I've found the standard chaos warrior's high quality shields to be pretty useful for negating concentrated ranged fire whilst I position my damage dealers. Without a couple of them around I find I'm often forced into attacking prematurely and along fewer axes. The demonic units extra speed allows me to maneuver alongside the chaos warrior's advance.
They're also very good at grinding through early game, mortal units, without taking much casualties. They just demolish stuff like goblins, orc boys, this type of stuff, without taking damage really
They're the ones that i always recruit as Tzeentch, those bloodletters and forsaken of Tzeentch is nothing compared to them. they can ate friendly fires from blue/pink horrors where forsaken and other demons can't, makes them excellent front lines
Agreed. I also spam the halberd variants when invading ogre territory. They're the only variant with AP, so they tear through everything. I don't find the dual weapon ones particularly useful due to lack of AP.
I dont understand how the chaoswarriors are just marked as basic. those dudes are fucking awesome if they get also some leader bonus they will hold against anything. I could fuck up anything only with this unit again very hard AI and I have no doubt that it would be the same on legendary.. Its pretty easy to have your core army made out of the chaos dude and flank the enemey with your bloodletters. You dont even lose one unit if you fight bigger armies.
I enjoy how different Total War Warhammer youtubers play the same game in different ways, and make tierlists so different. It's nice to see all the ways someone can handle the same situation in this game
It's nice that multiple do it. Legend (as far as I know) won't take into account anything related to multi-player in his lists. Other creators do, which is a great way to get more content from the same type of video. Thanks everyone.
@@5ynth3ticNZ you really shouldn't make a tier list with multiplayer and campaign combined. What's amazing in campaign can suck in MP. Really need to make two lists
flesh hounds and furies really surprised me in the campaign i thought the dogs would need numerical advantage and be only good for taking out archers, just like regular dogs, but they actually get an anti-large modifier from tech and are pretty strong in general and the furies are way better than bats or harpies which die instantly, I had like 3 furies in each of my armies and they easily took out towers and enemy flying units, while each individual unit is relatively weak and fragile three of them can easily rip apart plague drones, tzeentch knights and all kinds of "strong" flying units (however it still was pretty damn hard to keep them alive while giving them enough combat to get to rank 7 for the additional red line buffs)
In my chaos undivided campaign I used 7 units uf furies till the very end. Sending them in and watch them annihilate whatever I pointed them at was just fun
furies can take out most missile infantry in 1v1. Even quarrelers. They are way more useful than in wh2 harpier and bats, the resistance helps and their overall damage as well.
The anti-large bonus you can get for flesh hounds through the tech tree is really handy I've found. Especially as my main issue so far has been N'Kari they're great for shutting down slaaneshi chariots. Not infantry sized so don't get damaged by them much, have the mass to stop them in their tracks and the speed to pursue when they inevitably flee. I always have at least two in an army.
I'm honestly shocked you put the blood shrine in S tier, considering that blood reaper hero's can mount one, you usually deduct a lot of points if a lord can do the same thing but better. Take mortis engines for example.
i think skullcannon is S and bloodshrine is A. The problem with both is they get absolutely slammed by single entities like lords or heroes. You have to keep them away from those targets. Against infantry they are really good, even anti large variants. The reason I like skullcannon more is because you can severely weaken the enemy lords and single entities with the ranged attack and replenish their ammo when In melee. It takes more micro management but the payoff is worth it with blood host armies
@@KnightEnjoyer69 Yeah, though I will say you can get a lot of cultists easily enough, bloodreapers being from a tier 4 building means you prioritize putting them in your army, whereas the cultists are tier 2, so not only do you have them for your armies, but you get them easily enough to close rifts. You only need 1 hero for every 2 or 3 provinces (kinda depends on distance between the rifts for the provinces), but having a rift open for a turn isn't gonna be that big a deal.
@@M.L.official Only issue is that skullcannons don't buff nearby units, whereas blood shrines do. Regardless I have 2 of each in my Skarbrand army, which is mostly full of minotaurs.
@@darkrite9000 indeed, but the bloodthrones in your army cant really be replaced by bloodreapers. The unit is good in a cluster 4 or 5 of them fighting together. I personally use a bloodreaper and 3 thrones to take points and supply lines, but i dont think they are S tier because of upkeep.
your cannons follow orders? havnt had a single battle involving bloodcannons where one didnt just move off in a random direction for the rest of the fight the short time they let me use them they are pretty good, but that never lasts dont mind blood hosts having a few
Those few that I've managed to ever line up shots with have all spectacularly missed nearly every shot - even into blobs, which is impressive the first time and maddening after three successive whiffs - so my experience with them has been awful. If they ever do anything in my blood hosts, then cool, otherwise I expect them to disrupt infantry or let them do whatever the hell they feel like doing instead of what I tell them to, and focus on what I can trust to actually *do* things.
@@ashardalondragnipurake that could be because they either struggle with or can't fire at a downwards trajectory, they work best on a low ground firing up in my experience, but they they are mostly fun because they are kinda like tanks.
@@wyattperry11 i tend to not use them as ranged support use the ammo on its way into melee getting charged after getting the artillery morale hit, then followed up by a rear or air charge and you can break things quite rapidly then make sure your dogs or harpys are out of the way because if it starts firing on the fleeing units it will hit your own instead of them sadly that takes more then a little micro, and if at any point it bugs out its dead
I'm so glad you see the greatness of Minotaurs. With a certain research, they can also get gorefeast and regenerate. I found them essential in the stupid survival battles in the realm of Chaos. The Anti Large ones in particular eat soul grinders for breakfast.
As a measure of how weak Daniel is, I absolutely ganked him with four damaged Khorne furies. Admittedly it was normal difficulty but that is still some shameful shit for a LL.
The axe and shield Chaos Warriors of Khorne should be at A tier. While they fight well against early game units, against tougher units they are effective anvil units, holding enemies in place for the stronger units to do the flanking. They also are good projectile sponges thanks to their shields. The Soul Grinders of Khorne, on the other hand, are considered less useful than that of other chaos gods and I'd put them on C or B tier.
As of 1.2, Skullcrushers have a bonus vs large so I could see them being used as an anti-cavalry force maybe. It's just a +10 bonus, but it's still something.
In multiplayer, they're S-tier but I agree with his ranking here. They're either C or B-tier at best in campaign since you can replace them with Bloodcrushers or Skullcrushers which are slower but much more durable and deal out far more damage.
Fleshhounds are stronger in MP than in campaign, but they're still supergood as hound-units go. The only faction they're kind of weak against is Kislev.
Hey legend, how come you always rate dogs, hounds, snow leopards etc.. pretty low in comparison, but in your streams you are constantly using them in great ways wether it’s to cap or recap points, taking out artillery/ranged, or as a distraction to split enemy armies up. it seems like In your streams you’re constantly getting good value out of them, but then talk badly about them and it’s just confusing, cheers
I assume because other units can perform that utility plus can do other things aswell. Snow leopards for example, light sleds can do what they do, plus avoid dmg.
@@KnightEnjoyer69 that makes sense, but he still gets great value out of the others I mentioned and he tends to use value as a high metric in terms of grading a unit. For instance, a unit could be really strong, but if it costs to much, the upkeeps too high or it takes too long to recruit..he tends to value it a lot less than a cheaper variant. However, it seems to be the opposite with hounds, dogs, leopards, etc… But then I watch his stream and in a lot of battles his hounds, dogs and leopards are doing incredibly valuable jobs that wouldn’t have been possible if they weren’t in the army. That’s the part that’s confusing
Hey Legend, I'm desperately waiting for a tower tier list- or at least a list of which tier of towers are strongest for each race. You have the information scattered around different videos where you say "Kislev's best towers are the tier 3 ones" for example but it would be amazing if you could put all that incredibly valuable information in one place. Love your content, thank you :)
I agree with Bloodletters being a/several cuts above Chaos warriors. Slow hulking infantry with armor and shields might deflect/tank more shots but they also have to since the bloodletters are significantly faster. Not having magic attack also hurts when going against Nurgle or Tzeentch.
Tzeentch absolutely shreds bloodletters with Horrors tho because they have lower health, armor and their physical resistance is useless. Chaos warriors with shields on the other hand hard counter horrors which are the Tzeentch units you will fight the most.
@@JustSome462 On the flip side Chaos warriors don't do any damage at all. You have bloodletter summons to tie them down into combat before they "melt" your troops. Bloodletters are absolutely the better pick there.
@@ruukinen But you don't need to do much damage against Tzeentch, 90% of the roster has next to no armor, the only armored infantry Tzeench has are Forsakens. The AP of the bloodletters is just wasted there, and it's not like Horrors are going to stand up to CW in melee so i don't get where your "doing no damage" comes from. If it was like fighting Empire in WH2, where the AI would kite your melee infantry, i'd agree, but horrors just don't do that
@@ruukinen I did not, have you forgotten that barrier does not regen in melee? It's no longer a regenerating shield once the melee begins, because each time they take damage the barrier cooldown resets. Also 20% physical resistance is nothing, Khorne warriors do 36 damage per attack, that becomes 29, horrors have 40 hp per model so it'd take two attacks anyway. Sure the bloodletters kill faster once they're there, but bloodletters will also eat one or two full volleys on the way (Which will hurt a lot) and if the horrors have support from another unit the bloodletters will die there
One thing I would have mentioned is that getting vanguard deployment for the entire army (through the tech tree) MASSIVELY alters viability, especially for the slower units. Suddenly, having a few tier one chaos warriors with shields to soak up Tzeentch's missles can be viable even through the late game because while they ARE slow, they don't take long to actually reach the enemy, so the fact that they can eat the initial burst of enemy volleys becomes valuable to your other units when they descend on your enemies. Just my two cents.
Well, the mortal Chaos Doggos can quickly move around enemy formations and deal with basic archers, such as Cathai Peasant archers and Imperial Crossbows, but yeah, they are very weak and I don't bother with them. However, while I agree with every other unit, and I think you nailed it, the Khornate Blood doggos are broken OP and S tier. Hear me out. They hit far harder than other doggos, they can easily chase down and deal with missile cavalries, something Khorne struggles with, and they can very much deal with any rear line units. They are essential and much better than Furies at this, even if they fly. Furies are just too fragile with practically no defense. The Khornate Blood doggos will happily munch through any back line, are extremely mobile, can pull of pretty good rear charges and, on normal difficulty, if they get their charge in, do good damage to even Empire Knights. They will lose that fight, but for their price, you get a unit that might just be one of the best low tier shock "cavalry" units in the game. And they can really keep those pesky horse archers, outriders and pistoleers away like its nobody's business. Every Khornate army I have pack 2-4 units of Khornate Blood doggos. Make sure your army can butcher without having been shot, and they are very easy to replace. What makes them S tier isn't their pure combat stats, but the utility and service they render to your army.
I've had really bad experience with the chaos hounds. They can barely beat peasant archers and anything armored they just get smashed. Peasant horsemen destroy them. They are only good for pulling away enemies in sieges or something when you're defending. This is on very hard battle. Empire knights decimate them
@@M.L.official Okay, but barely. Everyone knows chaos hounds suck, OP just confirmed they suck as an intro, to confirm nothing's changed. Then they describe in detail how good flesh hounds are, and you respond with a paragraph about how much chaos hounds suck? You even mention you play on VH battle difficulty for some unfathomable reason, as if you're making a point or arguing with someone.
Funny thing is that Skarbrand is probably the only campaign you could play right now and not need to really worry about the soul race at all. You will likely kill most of the other factions before they can get 4 souls anyway. In fact Legend in his Skarbrand livestream had killed off half the map before turn 30. Now granted, that is very min maxed on movement and such (but without using the movement bug to have near unlimited movement), so it's possible to kill the entire map before the 2nd wave of rifts are done. But that'd be when you're trying as hard as Legend, otherwise you'll likely have killed at least half the map by turn 80, and thus reduced the number of soul race participants considerably. But even so, 1.1 should make things easier to manage for everyone, it's just a shame CA didn't do that right from the beginning.
@@darkrite9000 Yeah, honestly I just haven't gotten around to playing skarbrand yet, and I don't feel like playing until 1.1, since 1.1 is how the game should have been at release. Can't wait to utterly destroy the whole map lol.
@@jacobpendergrast5247 Yeah Skarbrand is very fun, even with the game being what it is now. But yeah it'll definitely be better after 1.1, I do hope CA makes strides to improve the campaign beyond just that, but at the very least they've got the bare minimum in 1.1. Should've been there at launch, but eh, better late then never. Just a shame the game has dropped off a decent chunk of players, I know they'll be back, if not when 1.1 comes out, then definitely when Immortal Empires is out.
@@jacobpendergrast5247 so what's the problem for you right now? I had eradicate 2 major factions already before the portals got up as khorne on very hard. the portals also fuck up the AI and not you, you kill any major when they try to get the souls. Its so fucking easy. I wasn't that fast with DP but same story basically
@@Vanadium The problem is that the game is in a horrible state because of bugs/crappy campaign mechanics. Waiting to see if 1.1 fixes it enough to be fun again... Has nothing to do with difficulty, and not sure why you jumped to that conclusion.
I have the feeling that Skullcrushers were supposed to be antilarge but it got lost in development and stayed with a copy/pasted ui tip and they just removed the anti infantry bonus.
@@darkrite9000 actually most of Khorne's units are already bloodily good against infantry (especially the exalted bloods and khornetaurs). Its just that Khorne currently seems to be almost crippingly overspecialized in anti-infantry they can be forced out of position by good cavalry play and so perhaps they needed more answers for that...
@@oscarstaszky1960 I've never had any problems with cav, but then again if you're referring to multiplayer battles then I got nothing cause I don't play multiplayer battles. I do play multiplayer campaign with friends, but I don't do ranked battles or the like. Still I do think skullcrusher would be better off being anti-large, since again, they already have anti-infantry covered.
You would think that the "anti-infantry" tag would mean having a bonus vs infantry, which I did for a long time, but really, it doesn´t and shouldn´t. Out of all of TW:Warhammer´s cavalry, the only ones I can think of that have an actual AI bonus are the basic black knights, and the bloodcrushers. All others afaik have either no bonus, or bonus vs large (which is imo the best on cavalry). The very description of the tag says that it can mean that it has an anti-bonus, or superior speed or mass which provides it with a tactical advantage over such units. Which is always the case with cavalry over infantry, since they can easily cycle-charge them (well, in TW3 due to the collision, impact damage, unresponsiveness etc. it is more like a disadvantage, but it´s not supposed to be of course). Hence why cavalry is inherently anti-infantry, even if it has an anti-large bonus. It´s not really a lie, it´s just a bit confusing. I would also argue that skullcrushers are better than bloodcrushers since they get better tech and skill tree buffs, making their stats pretty ridiculous, and they do fairly well against most enemies. Physical resistance is great of course, but 20% doesn´t do anywhere near as much as 100-ish armour does, and barely does more than the 40-ish extra armour that skullcrushers have over bloodcrushers, even against AP units (who still have around 33% base damage that gets reduced by armour). They also have considerably more health. I would also put all bloodletters and minotaurs of Khorne under S-tier. They are affordable and extremely good; very much doomstack-worthy. Very few AI armies can go up against a fullstack of exalted bloodletters lead by an exalted bloodthirster and get even close to winning, and after unlocking the gorefeast skill for minotaurs (via tech), I was able to have them fight Kislevite infantry, including tzar guard in a blob for over 5 minutes nonstop, and win with 100% health on some units, while having racked up 100-250 kills per unit. Extremely good units with gorefeast, and they work well alone or in conjunction with any Khornate infantry if you want to do that.
Exactly. The game itself precisely tells you that the "anti-infantry" tag can mean either a direct dmg bonus, or something else that is useful against infantry, like aoe attacks, mass etc. And this tooltip has been there since WH2. CA is not lying about the tags units have.
i think the confusion lies in that like 90% of the time "anti infantry/large" description is on units with the anti infantry/large bonus. so the close association with the bonus and naming convention makes it easy to see why it can be mistaken for what it does. i think CA should figure out a different naming convention myself. but you are correct in that the tag doesn't mean anything specific by in game definition
I agree with the Exalted Bloodletters. Once you get the tech that adds a stupid amount of replenishment (like 50% or something ridiculous) to Bloodletters, they're basically unstoppable. So long as you don't lose the unit, which is rare for Bloodletters since they kill so damn fast, they'll basically be back to full health in a turn or two, which you can easily abuse with Bloodletting to keep your army in tip-top shape. After that all you need is some anti-large minotaurs to deal with large units and maybe a skullcannon or two and boom, you can cruise through every single demonic realm without a care in the world.
IMO, Khrone is even owerpowered. I have recently finished campaign playing as Khorne, probably the easiest campaign ever. Khorne units simply rip through anything on the battlefield. Skarbrand is monster in combat, hereos can summon free bloodletters or bloodthirsters. The fact that chaos warrios are slow does not matter, as I usually charge with heroes/minotaurs and bloodcrushes into enemy and the remaining forces follow to engaged into combat. Even spear/halberd units barely do anything to Khorne monsters/cavalry. Also, IMO chaos warriors with shield are great for defending towns. They can absorb a lot of damage while towers do their job.
Chron's disease is pretty OP, I agree. I can find quotes from back in the pre-alpha where we all knew that Khorne was going to be either dogshit or god tier because having no magic and little range means their faction bonuses and tuning were going to be super impactful.
If we had mortal lords for the daemon factions that buffed mortal units it would be alot more viable to have different army compositions. For nurgle it's either nurgling doomstack or soul grinders for me. Something about long range artillery barrages is just so satisfying
It is really good to be seeing melee infantry in higher tiers nowadays, makes for more interesting gameplay and tactics to not have 1/3 of every roster be useless. It also means that if he wants, Legend can reasonably do all the old tiers lists again since they're highly outdated and don't reflect how the faction's units play anymore. I know he won't tho cuz that's a lot of work
While I don't think it'll happen, I want to hear the pure disgust in his voice admitting that stormvermin aren't trash anymore. It'd be hilarious, but unlikely.
It's funny for me I find the "Mortal units" actually "better" than my Bulls, both duel ax and pole arm version. Yeah on paper they look great and would put units in the trash can...but I typically don't have more than one of each in an army. Why? Because I find that, for what ever reason the A.I likes to literally gun for them first. So if I have two to three of those in my armies they get wrecked by arrows. So I typically have one of each class in my armies. They sit back and wait. When everyone is engaged in combat I roll them on the flanks.
Shielded Chaos Warriors are a great meat shield, I've found. If you sweep the higher level stuff behind what's focused on the warriors, it's devastating. During the last battle against Belly Boi, I found they held the line impressively well for their cost.
Tip to some people for bloodthirsters, you can heal them if you become military allies with a nurgle faction. If you gain the ability to recruit a great unclean one from your ally, you get access to magic as khorne and the great unclean one comes with nurgles passive global heal everytime it casts a spell.
In my first slaaanesh campaign i was friends with a nurgle faction i got corrupted by nurgle so i couldn't replenish outside of my towns after that i wipe out every nurgle faction that close to me
i personally love mixing bloodthrones with beasts of nurgle when playing demon prince, you can get both of them before the first rift and they make a good frontline up untill quite late in the game note: i dont play high difficulty
Agreed, but Flesh Hounds belong to B Tier. Even the Chaos Warhounds can farm a lot of skulls for you by running down units. Especially in early game that very useful.
I'm disappointed that chaos warriors of khorne got rated so low, they usually stick around longer than the blood letters. My ideal army comps are a chaos warrior front line with exalted bloodletters on the flanks with cavalry and at least two units of furies to deal with missiles and other things my land based warriors can't reach.
yeah man I dont get it also how they get there and how the fuck should they get obliterates? They take damage like nothing else. I also use the bloodletters on the flanks and this worked so well against anything that wanted to stay at range. They shoot at your chaoswarrios and lett the DD just eat them... Honestly the game is broken because I win the game with only one or two unit types and I dont need to build anything really...
I have a feeling Khorne units are going to be a real problem for Vampire Coast and Vampire Counts. Cause of their physical resistance and magical attacks they’re going to be able to roll over what ever gun line the Vampire Coast have. Syreens are a good Cylostra doomstack but cause of blood letters having magical resistance and magical damage they’re going to roll over them too. Vampire Count skeleton warriors are too weak and are going to get rolled over by blood letters too, plus with magical resistance vampire lords aren’t going to handle them too easy either. The two advantages vampires have is healing and spell casting which will be key in outlasting defeat by attrition.
I agree with everything except the flesh hounds. Those suckers are easily a tear especially once you unlock the technology that makes them anti-large. They are so good at dealing with enemy light cavalry. And since none of the demon units can ever get anti-large to your only anti-large cavalry before you get bloodthirsters. And they're just so good for running down into the units like you said that I pretty much always have two of them in every army all the way until the end game.
Here comes the "but Legend... That unit is awesome!!" comments, ignoring the very obvious "this is based on legendary/very hard and efficiency, not coolness" disclaimer
to be fair, most of the units are kinda identical in power like warriors and basic bloodletters so a "I use them because I think they are cooler" argument still holds value it's not like slaanesh marauders and daemonettes where there is a much bigger power gap between them and flesh hounds can get an anti-large modifier from the tech tree, so imo they are just as important and strong as the juggernaut units and could arguably be put higher than a C tier at the end of the day the rankings represent Legend's personal playstyle depending on your own playstyle the list can be more or less accurate for example he put chaos spawn into D mainly because of the rampage, but if you are someone who just throws them straight into combat then the rampage doesn't really matter, because they just keep fighting as you had ordered them to in the first place they are a nice unit to disrupt enemies while in a melee blob which in turn makes it easier for your own infantry to get some kills in
@@letsplaysvonaja1714 I would put them in C personally but yeah. I think this list is super accurate as someone who played 2 khorne campaigns on legendary. Just gotta make the autoresolve an option and we good
Early on as Khorne, before you really can start the steamroller, and even mid game, I love Shield Warriors. You get an Upkeep Cost and buff for them in the tech tree early, and their shields are very helpful vs Tzeentch or Kislev. I recall that it's a 55% negation, which is far better than the 20-35% Damage Reduction from Bloodletters against ranged units. I commonly use them because the AI, on most difficulties I've played with them on, seem to love targeting them, especially if you stick Skarbrand around them. They soak a lot of fire, are cheap(ish), relatively durable, and killy due to Frenzy. On a pound for pound, tho, Bloodletters are my favorite/go to infantry on pure killing power.
I will say one thing for heroic victories: Khorne is great at minor settlement defenses. With good choke point control and a couple of tier 3 defense towers you can hold out against much larger enemies using just your standard warriors and bloodletters. It’s especially visible on the chaos wastes map where your settlement is shaped like a star, and also gets even easier when you have the ability to summon bloodletters available.
Help requested: Following the patch, TWW3 video crashes in-game. The screen just goes black. I'm running a Ryzen 7 5800 and EVGA 3080 FTW3 and 32gb of RAM. I imagine it's not the hardware being insufficient. Thanks in advance!
Toads and Drones are pretty neat, especially assuming you aggro enemy shooters with your infantry. Beasts work too. The main gripe with Nurgle is that, for the supposedly most tanky army... they really have an awful anvil / main line. But still I think they are getting too much hate
@@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm the biggest issue with nurgle is that hes completely magick and ability dependent most of his units can't beat or perform as well as their tier equivalent in other factions without support with few exception like the great unclean one but hes worse againts everything else cause of his size most of his units aren't even tanky without heals since more hp doesn't matter if it gets depleted like nothing
Hopefully their future legendary lords will be like kugath, all considered as A tier lords with good global bonuses. Also, still waiting for nurgle chaos champions, pox maggoth, toad dragon and maggoth rider as heroes. Make glottkin and tamurkhan a lord for nurgle and not warriors of chaos.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 exactly their only good at staying alive longer and nothing else besides his soul grinder nurgle just doesn't have the heavy hitters to make use of his tankines
2 things kinda wrong or outdated on this. Obviously the non demonic infantry units are more useful now in a mixed demon army, especially with Tzeentch units. Secondly Red-line skills can only buff Skull Krushers of Khorne's so they are better if you spec your army into it.
@0:11 when you say that Skarbrand is the only playable Lord in WH3, does that mean the other lords are broken/unplayable and that makes him "playable" or he's like the only playable Lord for Khorne in WH3? It can't be the only playable Lord in the game either. Maybe I'm over thinking this but I just feel a little dumb after hearing that.
Warriors are just too slow generally. Also for Demon Prince armies. They can't keep up with anything else that isn't a Plaguebearer. Throws off your tactics.
Did you try hard on burning the world down as fast as possible like Legend did, cause if so, then yeah there's not much most factions can do about bloodletter spam early on in the campaign, it really takes reaching turn 80 or so for the AI to be harder to deal with when just using basic bloodletters. But then you can just go for exalted bloodletters and keep destroying, or even better, minotaurs.
@@darkrite9000 I went to 120-130 turns not being as aggressive as Legend and couldn't convince myself on doing the Tzeentch realm. But yeah, no issues dealing with N'Kari, Kugath and Kislev. Maybe they would now suck against Ogres.
@@aleksandaraleksandrov324 Might be a bit rough with ogres, beyond that Cathay can be rough since fire rain rockets and sky junks are very painful for infantry.
@@aleksandaraleksandrov324 That's true for the most part, except for sky junks which fly, so for them you'd need a flying unit or summon for it. Cultists can summon a bloodthirster, just need to close the distance first, but if the AI has some great longma riders they might keep the bloodthirster off the sky junk until it dies from degradation. But it does depend, it's just that late in the campaign I use minotaurs for Skarbrand's army, they keep up better and aren't that vulnerable to fire rain rockets, as well as have regen, so it's just really good at blowing through most armies.
I really think Flesh houds deserve a B tier and not C. They are real beast of murder, good at anything. I dont understand the shrine beeing S tier, it's good but A was enough. They arent really better in melee than skullcanon, if i remember correctly they just have more charge bonus and health.
The skullcannon is so trash. How can you rank it that high? It has low accuracy, low damage, low ammo. The only thing going for it is that it's not trash in melee but at that point you are better with anything else.
Skullcanons in A tier? Usually the ones i've used have horrible accuracy pretty bad canon damage which might be because the targeting always goes for the corner of units, meh in meele and also the annoying bug that makes them run of into the sunset.
Get them closer so they hit their shots more consistently. And tip for them getting stuck, hit backspace when you have them selected. That always fixes it for me :)
This is my favorite faction so far. Playing small and tall, so the game is moving super fast. Lots of bloodletters and flesh hounds in the early game I just rip up enemies. Very helpful tier list as I transition into the later half of the game.
Too bad the ally recruitment doesnt let you hire hero units, the absolute cheese that would enable boggles the mind and perplexes the senses. Boggles and perplexes!
I am really looking forward to the Daemon prince Unit Roster Tier List. This will be a huuuge one but it will be a very interesting one. The reason is that he has access to all Daemon units and due to being able to recruit all of them, you can make interesting and unique Armies that support each other. I would love to see how Legend ranks them in regard to each other and tell us what works the best for Daniel. I find him to be a very very strong Faction once you overcome the initial challenge.
Daniel himself is pretty garbo, but Undivided as a whole can field some absolutely insane armies that let you leverage one faction's busted units with a complimentary busted unit. Think Heartseekers flank charging into things being ground down by Chaos Warriors, Nurglings giving Slaanesh units more staying power thanks to poison, ect. Or, of course, Bloodthirsters with healing. The only problem is that only Daniel himself can buff units from two different factions at the same time. Honestly, that's not super important anyways, though.
respectfully disagree on (basic shielded) khorne warriors vs basic bloodletters; i appreciated a shielded unit that can recover from a rout, but thats just me.
Chaos warriors really shine against horrors imo, the shield + armor makes them so much tankier than bloodletters in that scenario (Who rely on their physical resistance that the horrors completely bypass)
@@JustSome462 But they don't do much damage to the horrors tho. They have no magic attack so the 20% is even more painful. They aren't even anti infantry either. Not saying your approach is incorrect however.
I prefer the minotaurs, cause they have regen via gorefeast from tech. It makes them very good at staying in melee, there's not much most armies can do against such an army. Granted a Bloodthirster or Soul Grinder stack is also something most armies can't deal with, but neither of them have regen, if they did then they'd be broken, but otherwise I'd say fairly comparable to minotaurs. As such I again prefer minotaurs, but yeah, Khorne has a pretty good roster, especially if you know what you're doing.
@@luiousy7329 This isn't about Legion of Chaos, this is just about Khorne, how good these units are in Khorne's roster. I know that in undivided they get healing, it's just too bad Legion of Chaos and build a demon prince sucks compared to Skarbrand and his faction. So yeah the important thing is what the units can do in the race we're covering, since it's just about Khorne, that's all you should consider, you shouldn't try to consider a different race, even if the unit is the same one there. It's not a legion of chaos tier list, it's a khorne tier list (and I don't know if Legend will do a Legion of Chaos tier list because they just use units from other factions, the only thing they have that's unique is the custom demon prince himself, and he sucks, I like what you can do with the faction, I just think he's way too weak).
Slaanesh's lore is pretty bad. N'Kari alone can make pretty good use of it, by dint of stacking debuffs on one target with their own abilities. Even if their other lore wasn't Shadow, Slaanesh's Lore would probably be basically unused. It REALLY needs an across the board winds price cut. Lash is good in Multiplayer, though. so buffs never, because CA balances for Multiplayer first for some reason. Nurgle's lore is Bad Life lore. But being Bad Life is still pretty great. It's weirdly better if used in Undivided, or otherwise outside of Nurgle armies. Can't say on Kislev or Ogres, haven't used them. Tzeentch's lore would suck in any other faction, but is alright in Tzeentch, especially since Metal is so lackluster on anyone not named Gelt. But, Tzeentch's lore really works in conjunction with a Cultist, and it's kinda weird that Tzeentch is so limited in available Lores. Pink Fire + Burning Head = a bunch of dead guys.
Try using their cannon shots vs single entities like ogre bulls or just lords in general. They are not accurate from max range but if you get them a bit closer they can kill 4-5 ogre bulls instantly if you get the aim down pat. They are also very good in melee vs infantry and the only units for khorne capable of destroying major settlement siege towers bar soul grinders.
The main things are prioritizing targets, and remembering that, in many ways, they're more like a Stegodon than a traditional artillery unit. Don't have them shoot infantry unless there's nothing else. Khorne absolutely does not need help shredding infantry. You want to be targetting large mounts, chariots, and monsters if you can. Maybe a ranged infantry unit, if it's problematic, and you don't have a Khornedog stand instead. When they run out of ammo, don't just let them sit there with their hands in their pockets, have them rear charge something your front line is fighting. Even if they don't end up shooting anymore, they still put in good work in melee, and cut down on infantry casualties. I find they are best used not from behind your lines, but at the flanks. They waste fewer shots going into the back of your own dudes, and get nice, clear shots into high value targets, and can get right into melee when they need to. Don't make your army conform to what Skull Cannons are trying to do, use Skull Cannons to support your army, and deal with the things Khorne is less good at. They're very supportive units, not so much what you build the army around. Oh, and don't maxrange their shots. Remember, they want to get into melee eventually anyways, get close. You will miss significantly less at half range than full.
In my experience, Chaos furies last for as many battles as they choose not to participate in. Once they get into combat with anything, they disintegrate.
Got to use them right. They are really good in 1v1s against almost any missile unit. Or you need to just swarm one melee unit with 3 chaos furies. They aren't meant to take on melee infantry alone, they are good for taking out archers/artillery/and tier 1 or 2 cavalry.
@@M.L.official They is no way that I'm ever going to spend resources actually recruiting chaos furies, so how could I ever get 3 of them? 😂 Also, I didn't use them recklessly against infantry, I've played TW titles for years, they just suck. They lost against handily against Tzeench Chaos furies, and did nothing against plague drones even with bloodthirster support. Other than being a disposable meat shield for more valuable units in blood hosts, they have zero value. And since Khorne doesn't tend to face artillery early game they don't really have an opportunity to do well in that respect. The only artillery they actually have a chance of beating is currently from Cathay, and they are on the other side of the map. Little groms, Skull cannons, and Tzeench and Nurgle soul grinders will be fine against them.
The thing is if you build your main building as chaos warriors version, they can defend city better than the blood letter. As long as you pass to mid game can hire minautor, just spend 3turns and you don't need to bother of your build until you dominate the whole map...I manage to complete eliminate all factions with my friend in120turns..
