Kilovolt Tech Talks EP008 - QS165 First Look (SURRON UPGRADE MOTOR) Specs, Hall Sensors Vs Encoders 

Thanks for the comment , glad you enjoy the Techtalks series . We have allot more planned and in the pipeline ⚡️

@@jayjay6782 Do you mean to 'buy' this rubbish? As in buy the encoder based motor?

Sorted our mic issues with a new set of radio mics . Thanks for the comment ⚡️

Also excited to see this motor in action should be interesting to see how it performs vs the stock motor at 72v

Thanks for the comment also ⚡️⚡️

Can this motor be swapped in directly to a bike with a bac4000 tuned for a stock Surron motor with a hall sensor? Or would there need to be changes made to the controller tune?

138

Thank you ⚡️⚡️

thanks we are aware of the hall sensor version of this motor - At the time of filming and editing this video there was only an encoder version, we also had the motor a few months before the general public for means of testing and evaluation

that will probably be with the new hall sensor version of the 165 coming at the end of this month. As far as im aware the sintech offering doesn't accept encoders

There’s probably allot of extra design and manufacturing involved in adding reduction to all motors- in our opinion most gearing needs can be done with sprockets unless it’s an extreme speed or torque application . It’s worth bearing in mind the reduction motors half the output RPM while doubling the torque so not always ideal for every setup . Encoders will improve high end rpm , low end launch and be more reliable then hall sensors on paper as they have a higher resolution then just 3 hall sensors

@@KiloVoltBikes I am relatively new to electric bikes and see where for big MX style builds that 138 V3 seems to be the go-to for building extreme-machines. Seems that regulating the voltage and amperage applied becomes the differentiator in overall performance. I dig your channel as you explain more of the what's what of the system and so on where others tend to just show off what they bought from a website as a plug and play in their machine. I for one appreciate your taking the time to get into the technical side of things.

What controller are you using?

We was aware ASI controllers support hall sensors - the big question at the moment is do they support encoders which most controllers do not . Yes hall sensors can provide very good performance with higher end controllers but encoders promise to offer even better performance under heavy load and take off from standstill .

@@KiloVoltBikes Unfortunately ASI controllers do not support encoders. I bet you will never notice a difference using an encoder vs a hall sensor with this motor. The ASI controller can run the stock SR hall motor from a stand still under high loads without ever loosing rotor sink and absolutely no stuttering.

@@MrHV-wv3fy it will also burn the stock Surron motor extremely quickly doing so at 72v - I think it will need testing to know fully if there’s a noticeable difference . If it doesn’t smell like toasted phases after extended ride time that would be a noticeable difference for us 😂⚡️

@@KiloVoltBikes Absolutely, but adding an encoder instead of hall sensors isn’t going to stop that from happening. I’ve been running my stock SR motor on 12kw 72v and 430 phase amps reliability for hundreds of miles now with no issues. But never for long wide open throttle runs which is usually the culprit for failures. Plus keeping an eye on motor temperatures. Love the videos btw, thanks for the all the info. Cheers!

@@gwilkins712 I think it’s not so much the encoders themselves that will prevent this but the use of better materials and motor having the stators wound for 72v - if you look back into the history of the Surron Lightbee the original circuit diagrams label a 48v battery so it my belief the original motor was designed for use around this voltage before having a battery and controller upgrade / probably putting the stock motor right on the upper end of its KV . The addition of encoders is no doubt just a step forward for added reliability and maybe potential for a bit more performance. We will continue to explore this and other options . Thanks for the comments and always interesting to hear peoples feedback and findings ⚡️

Which controller are you using ?

@@KiloVoltBikes the fardriver 72530 that comes with it the encoder version.

@@mmd7774 ok perfect , any normal 5v hall sensor throttle should work , have you checked the controller settings ? I’m sure there’s a selection for throttle type ? I will check later when I have a controller nearby to test

@@KiloVoltBikes you can’t choose between throttle types. I also thought a normal 5v hall throttle should work. They work with the normal fardrivers but not with the encoder version apparently..

@@mmd7774 I have a few encoder version fardrivers I will test it tomorrow

After watching it, seems it MAY drop directly in - how much is it> May give it a go. Do you think the BAC8000 will need re-configuration for the motor? Any idea how to :D

@@T-Sav yes it will drop straight into a Surron . The only issue is you need a controller that supports encoders such as the Far Driver Encoder edition controllers .

@@KiloVoltBikes Seems like they missed a trick there, almost everyone who has an interest in upgrading their surron has used HALL controllers..... They could have destroyed the market with a motor that just drops directly in that people can use with their already upgraded controllers.... Getting someone to replace both will be hard than just the motor

@@T-Sav the controllers don’t cost the universe like some of the Surron upgrade controllers I’ve seen . We hear what you are saying but believe encoders are an awesome upgrade for this new range of motors . The sacrifice of needing a new controller is worth it in our opinion

@@KiloVoltBikes Do you provide a full drop in package, i.e. a controller and the motor ready to go?

Hey Michael what are you building ?

@@KiloVoltBikes basically a cross between a dirt bike and downhill mtb - no pedals though. I want it as slim as possible - I don't want a big bulge where the motor is. I plan to make my own gear reduction possibly using the jackshaft from a Sur Ron.

@@MikeZ8709 I think for the slimmer form factor a QS165 would be ideal for what you are doing . You’ll find the motor has decent enough performance to run without any reduction . In a build like that I would defo go with 165 instead of the golden motor offering

@@KiloVoltBikes I didn't mention I'm going to be using 27.5" or 29" wheels so I think I def need a reduction. As for the QS Motor, by "decent enough" are you suggesting the GM 5kw is still more powerful or has more potential? It's 4 kg heavier and liquid-cooled which makes me wonder if it can be significantly over-driven like the SurRon motors which we both obviously know get taken into the low teens of kw.

@@MikeZ8709 steer clear of golden motor . In our experience there motors are not good quality ..

They do now , at time of us making this video they didn’t .