Didn't know, but I'm not surprised. She worked as a graphics artist under a pseudonym and designed the illustrations for the danish translation of Lord of the Rings. She sure is good at it, the monogram is awesome.
And people still insist on keeping the logo. I mean, yeah sure, history, but bypassing that, this logo is pretty old. If I design a new symbol for the TTC, it would have elements inspired by the old logo, but graphically cleaner.
@@nottimhortonslooking forward to see your ‘Royal’ cipher. Of course you’d have to be a royal, with like a country. Love your enthusiasm. Also love the fact that no one EVER thought of that! Mind blown! Positive no one ever said, ‘you know….I’d like to have one that’s my own, ORIGINAL cipher’. While claiming a position that is exclusively based on the past
You could have added that some royal monograms have a history quite apart from their graphic design. During the German occupation of Norway the H7 monogram of king Haakon VII, looking much like the modern one for Harald V You presented, was a potent badge of resistance. It was hastily painted as graffiti, carved in stones by night, or scraped in snow. Very simple to make and absolutely unequivocal as a symbol of national loyalty.
I'm a spaniard and I didn't even know that we had a cypher for our king, frankly our monarchy is only represented by the crown, and it's the one on the flag, so it doesn't change from one king to the next, I'm sure 99% of spaniards have never seen that cypher you showed haha
@@no1fanofthepals what I meant is that everything here like the police, army and mail have the state crown, the one on the flag, unlike the UK, who has the Monarch's cypher
@@diecicatorce6259 Most of them do have The Crown too. The Monogram is only really seen on Postboxes, which no one really uses anymore anyhow. Local police forces (we don't have national police) normally have a silver medallion (or star) with the county coat of arms in the middle with a crown on top. The army... Well who knows regimental flags and colours outside of the army. It's only the Metropolitan Police which use the monogram. Those other examples he lists are much more nuanced and most people will never come into contact which.
Reminds me of a reddit post on /r/AskLatinAmerica which asked how Latinoamérica's view of the Spanish royal family compared with the US view of the British royal family. The overwhelming response was, "Spain has a royal family?"
The designer who created Charles’ monogram hit the nail on the head. It’s a good balance of strong and elegant… more refined than Elizabeth’s but less fussy than some of their predecessor’s. I enjoy the florid, loopy forms from the past but they don’t feel very modern. Charles wants to have a slimmed down monarchy that reflects economy and I think this works perfectly. Bravo!
Nice video. I like how King Charles' crown has a stronger curve at the bottom, which goes with the curve of the C, making the crown and the lettering relate to each other better than in Elizabeth's cypher. Queen Margrethe is an amazing artist and designer, and her cypher has always been a favourite of mine, both as a piece of design and for its artistry and immediate beauty even when viewed as an entirely abstract symbol. I was well impressed when I saw a documentary made for her 60th birthday and realised she'd made it herself.
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram.
@@RaymondHng thanks for pointing out the joint monogram. It's an interesting one, with a higher level of abstraction, and even a heart shape in it. That said, it also looks uncannily like Cthulhu. Nice as it is, her royal cypher remains my favourite, though, as it has been since I first spotted it on Danish coins when we went to Denmark on holiday in 1980.
That is another thing I noticed was the 2 crowns. Her Late Majesty's has a heart-shaped top, while His Majesty's top looks like shoulders. That is the most immediate difference I noticed.
A small point, but the word isn't coronated, it's crowned. The Queen was crowned at the coronation. The coronation is the whole thing, the crowning is when the OTT headgear is placed on ones head.
@@sheilaghbrosky4150 Also, how good is your Swedish, or did you miss the bit where he tells us he's a Swede? His English is actually so good he sounds like (and makes fewer mistakes than) a native speaker.
@@RasheedKhan-he6xx He was born in Sweden and lives there now, but he grew up in Australia. I'm pretty sure English is one of his first languages (or has been speaking it since he was very young which is basically the same thing). In any case it seems much more likely that he didn't see the other person's comment, forgot about it, or had already made this video, rather than it having anything to do with being Swedish.
@@qwertyTRiG The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
The styles of the monograms, subtly reflect both the person and the times. Victoria's reflected the trend for ornamentation, while Elizabeth's has proven to be more about solid stability. The cypher for King Charles looks clean and simple, making it suitable for more modern times.
As one who is enthralled in monarchy, I cannot commend this informative and entertaining video enough. So nice to see such traditional and long-standing traditions used and in this case, discussed in the modern day. I personally would love to see more of the couples cyphers and historical ones also. Thank you for your video!
As an employee of Rolls-Royce here in the UK, I always thought the twin intertwined R’s look very stylish. It’s interesting to note that both the car maker and the Aerospace division of RR both share the use of this famous logo. The twin R’s were originally finished in a red/maroon colour. This changed to dark blue/black colour as a mark of respect when joint company founder Henry Royce died in 1933.
the cypher isn’t replaced everywhere, only on government buildings, regalia, and official documents the cyphers replaced: everything else retains the cypher at time of dedication or casting. it’s why there’s many VR cyphers out there alongside EVIIR and GVR and GVIR cyphers not to mention the rare EVIIIR cypher and Elizabeth’s cypher was less ornate than her uncle, grandfather’s and ancestors as they mixed the letters with the numbers in a more ornate styling
I'm not that old, but we had a George V one on our street when I was a kid. I wonder if they just leave them where they are or gradually relocate the older ones to more, umm, upmarket areas.
Well there are also uniforms of the raven-feeders from the Tower of London (I know they have some sort of name and that they are also guards and much more, that was a joke ok?), I'm pretty sure it will be replaced on those. And when I first visited UK that is the place where I first seen noticed the Cypher.
@bostonrailfan2427 : You can still find postboxes with royal ciphers on them in the Republic of Ireland. They just paint them green instead of red! More modern ones do not have them.
@@mancubwwa They're called Beefeaters (where that name comes from I haven't a clue). They are generally former armed forces personel and guard the tower of London where the Crown Jewells are kept.
HRH Queen Margrethe 2. has so much talent in her little finger, that she has actually designed ALL the Royal monograms, for the present Danish Royals a proud Dane 🌸
@@pedanticradiator1491it doesn’t look like English is her first language, maybe in English you’re right but in the end that is just a translation, and translations aren’t one to one.
@@LordDim1 The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
Very intrigued and excited to hear your thoughts on this one - a Royal Rebranding (despite the obvious) is very apt indeed. Curious to hear what geeky royal design trivia you've dug up..!
Graphic designed and corporate identity specialist from California - Bravo! Excellent! Beyond expectations! Reviewing all necessary elements I could not imagine a better cypher! It's going to cost, pardon the pun, a king's ransom to change all the logos in the UK over time. Like I have always said, logos and images are essential visual tools as they should communicate positive attributes. Following tradition typically leads to simplicity. Simplicity equates to elegance. Elegance communicates strength, confidence and power. Again, fantastic job!
I've only ever seen the alternate version of the Dutch king's cypher. A W and A where the halves of both the letters are connected so they form two mirrored interwoven lightning bolts. The stylisticly simpler one. That's also the one that got even more stylised into a logo for the 'coronation' in 2013. Never seen the version you showed, like ever.
Googling a bit on it, it looks better in the embroidered version, you don't see the harsh diagonal lines. Never seen it before either, just the ones for queen+king together.
First time I have seen your work. I was surprised at how elegant this video is, and how clearly I could hear, see, and follow along. Well done! Subbed.
Interesting video. I hope this helps someone - although "coronate" is a verb in English it is VERY rarely used and the past tense "coronated" is NEVER used. Instead, we would just say "Crowned".
Yes, my first impression upon seeing King Charles' monogram, "That's quite good." I prefer it to Liz's, which felt utilitarian. Charles' cypher has a really nice balance, although I'm sure it is helped by the "C" being a simple, open shape, as opposed to the prickly "E" of his mother's.
I think E is a particularly tricky letter, graphically, because it isn't symmetrical, doesn't have ascenders or descenders. Could've put the E back to back with the R, but then either the E is made secondary or the R is. There are a lot of lines to work out in a monogram, aren't there?
Check out Envato Elements 👉 1.envato.market/c/3671954/1159027/4662?subId1=video1 (since this video was published, free trials have been discontinued). NB: I should have said *"crowned" instead of "coronated"* - thank you for the the many diligent comments. Also, I somehow missed that Queen Margrethe of Denmark designed her own monogram, all the more remarkable! This was a fun rabbit hole to fall down, and there's definitely more nerdy design content coming to the channel before the end of the year, so stay tuned.
I really enjoyed chatting to the live audience for it! I think it's nice to only have half a day of countdown for a Premiere though, it frustrates me to see some channels that post "Premiere in 5 days" or similar. Thanks for the great video!
I did twitch when you said "coronated." This was a great video. I don't know the first thing about design, but "I know what I like" and you've helped me to understand why I like some and not others.
just watched the evil corporation branding and american psycho videos and i feel like kpop companies and their groups would be an interesting thing to look at because logos are such a huge part of it. also a group called clc has had the weirdest typography/logos from just using copperplate to a logo where the letters clc are designed to look like a cat to getting a more classic and simple logo right before their company banned them from releasing new music. i feel like your evil corporation video there’s a lot there regarding storytelling
As a Torontonian, I just need to get my two cents in about the TTC logo. I can agree that the monogram is poorly designed, but I would argue that's not the point - the monogram is merely an element of the whole logo, and is never used in isolation. The monogram, crest, and wings combined identify the TTC, and is why it is used on everything from busses to maps to subway entrances. Feel free to talk smack about the TTC though, it's our favourite pastime
There was a point in time where they did use the monogram by itself, for example on the sides of streetcars in the 40s. Glad they've moved away from doing that
Yup, I cringed when Linus mentioned the TTC monogram, but I figure, "Hey, its like the TTC itself: inelegant, but it gets you where you need, eventually." Still, be nice to see a well done redesign.
It's fascinating to me the updating they'll have to do across all the applications, excluding ones you mentioned. When my workplace rebranded it was a nightmare trying to track down all the places our logo was, I can't imagine trying to do that for a long-reigning monarch!
I think the two monograms actually reflect a lot about the separate monarch's personalities. The EIIR monogram is broad, with thick straight lines. It's heavy. Elisabeth II saw her role as monarch as being the anthropomorphic representation of the state and her monogram reflects the weight and gravitas of the nation. Charles III is more elegant, lighter, more aesthetically pleasing, but it feels like a private monogram, like it's about looking good because it represents his person as king, not as the embodiment of the nation.
I have never thought of royal ciphers and their history, but now I'm intrigued! I hope you'll explore more, even perhaps royal seals/symbols of the eastern countries. Might be challenging but it's interesting how people across oceans have similar yet unique design principles.
The negative space is really intrusive, as the positive and negative space is too balanced. The 3 lines are particularly ugly and blocky and being dumpy, awkwardly spaced, and central freeze the attention. The C forming "the cowed dog's tail between the legs" look is quite unfortunate. Lacks harmony and elegance, the ER was unfussy and confident, this is very cliché and neurotic "inside and between" obsessive space filling.
It’s heavily inspired by his grandfather’s H7 monogram, where the crossbar of the H also becomes that of the 7. The intervening king, Olav V, didn’t have as much to work with for a monogram, so his was less interesting because there’s only so much you can do with an O.
Yes, the alternating and overlapping is so tricky and fiddly! Took me ages to get it to look semi good for our geeky logo (A space invader with it's arms and leges alternating with the letters GG).
Also, king Harald V's monogram is based upon his grandfather's, king Haakon VII. His grandfather was the first king which reigned in Norway only in 600 years. And he fled the country during WW2 and was very instrumental in modernizing the monarchy and make it less splendous and elitist than the rest of Europe, like how they decided to stop crowning monarchs. So Haakon VII became known as the first people's king, Folkekonge, and then his son, Olav V continued the pattern and was very close to the people, he even took the tram during the energy and fuel crisis on the 1970s. His son again, our current king Harald V has also continued the trend of being the king of the people. Though I suspect his son, which will probably either become Haakon 8 or Magnus 8, will struggle more with this as he has gotten alot of favours from rich people, took his children from public school and let them go on a private elitist school and he has no links to the resistance in WW2. Anyways, Harald V has a very interesting name, as his name starts with the same letter as his grandfather and he has the same number as his father. Though he has always been named Harald, so it was probably no coincidence.
3:23 I've been taking the TTC more than normal lately and everytime I see the mess of letters on the logo it makes me smile. It's just so bad, I love it!
@@ZerakTul The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
Excellent, well-researched video -- but I'm surprised that you did not comment more on the royal cypher most familiar to us: the bold, block letter E II R for Queen Elizabeth II. It's simplicity makes it the most distinctive royal cypher of all time, perhaps intended to mimic the austerity of her coronation time.
Charles' monogram was unexpectedly good, like really unexpectedly good, but Queen Margrethe's monogram is sooo beautiful! I'm not into design all that much, but being introduced to these gems that I would otherwise never encounter is such a treat.
The cypher of Stephen I, King of Hungary (1000-1038) is quite well-known here for some reason. If you take into account that it was designed over one thousand years ago, it’s not too bad…
The C III R reminds me of the old round SNCF logo by Maximilien Vox of 1938 which also has intertwined letters. And I have no doubt the R has a larger bowl than Elizabeth's so that the Roman numeral III fits in. When it comes to crowns I like the approach in the KLM logo. Simple and timeless. Though of course this specific approach won't work for any other logos in crowns, the KLM crown is unique and trademarked. Harald 5's cypher borrows a lot from Haakon 7's (his pre-predecessor, whereas Olav V who came in between used a Roman V). I guess Haakon 8 will have fun with the symmetry of letter and digit.
Thank you so much for that: I had no idea I was so interested in such things until you explained so beautifully the subtleties that make this impressive art... :-)
Dutch King Willem-Alexander often uses a much more modern logo. I would not have recognized the one you presented as a Dutch citizen, whereas I would have done so for the modern WA monogram!
The queen may have been a feisty old bird but she wasn't coronated like one. "A person is crowned, not coronated. “Coronate” is improperly derived from “coronation,” but “crown” is the original and still standard form of the verb." "It is actually a word, and has been since the 17th century. However, its usage has been confined to flora and fauna - and as an adjective, not a verb. So a bird may have a plumage “coronate with blue feathers”.
Hah! Thanks, you learn something new every day! I knew there'd be something I missed in the script, though tbh I never expected it to be esoteric vocabulary from ornothology.
Thanks for a highly instructive and entertaining analysis and overview of the royal cyphers! I too love the simple but elegant design for Charles. Another neat touch that ties the elements together (which wouldn't really have been possible for Elizabeth) is that the top curve of the C is an echo of the bottom curve in the crown, so it truly looks as if the crown is sitting atop Charles's head, so to speak. (I do wish the arches were identical, so the white space between them continued the pattern; I think it'd be even more subtly pleasing if only subconscious to the viewer. But that's me just nitpicking.)
Glad to see another video of yours reaching 1 mi. You deserve every view. Keep it up! Suggestion: review logos of games, especially the classic ones which were limited by low resolutions. Have a great day.
Fun fact about the college of arms: It has its own court house and runs trials where people can claim someone is using their coat of arms without a right to do so. The last time the court was in session was because a facebook meme page was using the city of Manchester's coat of arms, and the first thing the court had to rule on was if the court still existed.
No problem with Charles using his monogram in Scotland as Charles III. The previous King Charles were after all kings of Scotland, and Charles I was born there.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 I don’t understand. I don’t think many Scots have a problem with the Royal Family. In fact I think they are relatively popular- particularly if your saw how many people turned out to farewell the Queen. The issue was calling her Elizabeth II in Scotland, where there she is Elizabeth I. Charles is Charles III in both countries, so there is no problem with his cypher.
@@shehannanayakkara4162 True, but he was not ever crowned. Ironically the heir to the Jacobite claim is German, much more so than the present Royal family. Charles’s grandmother was Scots.
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
Of all those reviewed in this video I might like that of King Charles the best. Its elegant and simple. I admit I like the unique nature of Harald V's cypher with the number 5 in there though.
I’m an American and my primary exposure to cyphers has been via Canadian rowing clubs. I had only really learned about the concept of the cypher when the Queen died, and it was with your video that I made the connection and realized those icons with fancy intertwined lettering were themselves cyphers. The Ottawa Rowing Club has an elaborate classically-styled cypher (visible on their Wikipedia page), while St Catharines uses a simpler one with SCRC arranged in an overlapping diamond. (There are others, but these two are the ones that come to mind since I have traded for their gear.)
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
Really enjoyed your video, thank you so much! 👌 The cypher of King Charles is very pleasing on the eye. Would definitely like to learn more about heraldry. History and traditions are fascinating.
I read that the Royal College of Arms presented HM with ten options from which to choose. I would very much like to see the options that were not chosen.
As always a very apt and deeply fascinating deep dive through history and design. Very interesting noting the design of the crown atop the cypher and efforts making a detailed design simple, yet keeping it's detail if that makes sense - a nod to a previous video on London Borough logos with coats of arms, and regarding detail where some get it right and some terribly wrong! Wholeheartedly agree with the new King's cypher, which has those strong royal roots, but feels very up-to date, crisp, and fit for this digital age. That large bowl of the R fitting the III with the roundness of the C is so satisfying. Those Scandinavian cyphers are gorgeous: Queen Margarethe's one with the M, 2 & R is just *chefs kiss*; but the XVI of King Gustav's just works well: ever so slightly condensed, with beautiful serifs balancing the bold and regality. Same with King Filip/Phillippe with it's clever dual purpose design. Yet, speaking of Felipe, King Felipe of Spain's is... interesting!
Like many from Scotland, never liked the cypher for EIIR, but having lived in England for a while before moving to Australia that’s were you got to see so many different cyphers. Must admit I do like the new one as you said it’s nicely balanced. I think with his lady wife it might present a challenge as they are both a C it will be interesting to see how they make distinctive. Here in Australia the mail boxes are mostly steel boxes and painted so I think as they are due to be repainted they will be changed then. Interesting subject it’s been a while since I have done any studies on cyphers, there have been a few new cyphers in the past 30-40 years.
It's interesting, will they be abbreviating Camilla Consort (CC), or Camilla Queen Consort (CCR), or something different? A variant of Charles' where the R is replaced with a smaller CR interlocking side by side could be interesting.
I don't normally see the royal cypher on AusPost mail boxes; unlike the British post I don't think Australia Post have the Royal Charter or whatever it is that lets them use that cypher in the branding. Though the P in a circle is very distinctive in and of itself and is a very nice design IMHO
I'm always going to have some good feelings whenever I pass by my local postbox with the E II R on it, but I'm looking forward to spotting any new ones with Charles' cypher on it them.
2:42 Interesting usage of latin (Regina/Rex) but also the usage of French in a curse in the former royal coat of arms of Elizabeth, in the form of "honi soit qui mal y pense", or "cursed be whoever thinks ill of this institution" in English. The design for Charles has more of the classic monogram than the one designed for Elizabeth. Nice explanation about the new drawing of the crown above Charles' monogram. 7:10 Quite interesting description of the 747 in the black crown. But why the other 4 pearls appearing below the Maltese Cross aren't mentioned? The italian sociologist Giorgio Agamben wrote a great article about the origins of the monogram in his fantastic book "Profanations". He wrote: "a monogram is the secret name, given to us in the Garden of Eden, a name that cannot be spoken: represents force and law as well as an effigy might!" One of my favourite monograms is the one created by designer Cassandre for French fashion designer Yves Saint Laurent, the incredible YSL.
The (Old) French is actually from the symbol and slogan of the Order of the Garter, which IIRC was founded by Edward III and named after an incident where he had to help some lady whose garter had fallen down tie it back up again. (Since elastic materials obviously did not exist in medieval Europe, the garter was the standard way of holding up stockings.) After he was done tying up the garter, he reportedly stood up and said the thing, basically saying that anyone who wanted to make slander out of it had the _real_ dirty/perverted minds for thinking he only did it to upskirt the lady. And so that's the backstory of the heraldic order, and people still get admitted into it in the British honours system (probably)
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
Great informative video. But Linus, what do you think of the design of the emblem for the Queens 70th platinum jubilee, designed by 19 year old graphic design student Edward Roberts? I think it’s a fascinating and superb piece of graphic design, love the way the 7 is incorporated next to the 0 at the top of the Crown. The emblem has such a rhythmic quality to the line - no wonder it was chosen.
To me as a swede this is a funny reaction, as to us his name is so OBVIOUSLY swedish 😄 But i totally get why it's not obvious for others, as it's not a last name ending in "sson"
1:11 A mistake (made often by Americans) I’ve been seeing lately is to say that the new King will be “coronated” at his coronation. He will not. He will be…wait for it….CROWNED at his coronation. I suppose you could as correctly say that he’ll be crowned at his crowning. 👑 A coronation is a crowning ceremony.
Linus I've been binging your videos for the last few days and this is all the kind of stuff I've always enjoyed analysing, your channel is a real gem. Something I would love is for you to put together some kind of repository or catalogue of all these classic typefaces, either for download or a sort of catalogue with a brief description, usage and history of each, any plans for anything like this or maybe even a book recommendation you could give?
Honestly Queen Victoria's cypher is easily readable and recognizable. I don't think is bad but not interesting enough, still a quite good "logo type". Also I might be too familiar with cursive writing
Queen Margrethe II has a bit of an unfair advantage on design compared to other monarchs. She's an accomplished artist in her own right in several fields, including some very evocative illustrations for the danish translations of Lord of the Rings.
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
The dual monogram of Margrethe II and her late husband Henrik, Prince Consort looks especially beautiful. It's on her Wikipedia page. The Queen also has her own personal monogram in addition to her royal monogram. Her second son, Prince Joachim's monogram, leaves a lot to be desired.
Speaking of old UK postboxes, you can also find "anonymous" postboxes with no cypher at all, which were produced from 1879 to 1887 and omitted Victoria's cypher by accident.
Could have been interesting if you could have analyzed the cyphers from the other European missing monarchs as well, e.g. the Grand-Duke of Luxembourg and the Prince of Monaco.
