I am about to tell you where in London you can see real live tram shed.I am a bus driver,and I'll have you know I've been working on the buses for the past 49 years,currently working for Arriva at their Brixton garage which confusingly is in Streatham.Now if you head south up Brixton hill you come to the south circular road and just before the junction on the left is an annexe of Brixton garage still called the tram shed. Fittingly enough it is now used to charge the electric fleet of buses that operate from Brixton garage and the tram tracks are still there. These can clearly be seen from the road.So there we are, a real live tram shed minus the trams but still garaging electric vehicles .While I'm at it ,anyone want to congratulate me for my years on the buses ? I love adoration !!!
@@MervynPartin Thank you. Only driving since 1979 !! Before that I was a conductor and for six months when I was seventeen until I was old enough to conduct I was a bus operating trainee. Every department I went to it was the same "make the tea Si" !! I can make a great cup of tea !!
The Tram Subway made at least one appearance in fiction. In Dorothy Sayers' novel "Unnatural Death", published in 1927, Inspector Charles Parker, who had rooms in Bloomsbury, "ran feverishly out of the house and down Lamb’s Conduit Street to catch a diver tram to Westminster" on his way to Scotland Yard. It would still have been a single-deck tram at that date. The expression "diver tram" must have seemed strange to her readers who weren't Londoners, even then.
@@tomburnham5119Like Miss Whittaker and Miss Findlater's friendship, I suppose. It's also interesting that the likely culprit is identified from the start so no real "whodunnit" but there is still plenty of mystery.
As a kid I remember riding tram routes 31 & 33 through the Kingsway subway, and in later years riding Trolley Bus 1379 with the offside door when it was still in use on route 653. A very good video Jago. ❤
I'm not sure of the route numbers, but I remember riding the tunnel trams as well - and the station stops. I found it even more exciting than trains! Best wishes. :)
Same here, apart from those trolley bus routes. Getting rid of the trams was a crime. Money should have been invested in their modernisation. As to the trolleybuses they were fantastic. A much smoother and quieter ride than diesel buses and much faster acceleration.
I have fond memories of trams in Dundee, Scotland, and rode them often. The tram depot at Maryfield will shortly be opening as the Dundee Museum of Transport.
Another perfect example of shortsighted transport planning in UK and London in particular. I remember trips to London and peering into the slope on Kingsway thanking 'what a waste' even in the 80s. How very different London looked then in transport terms!
Dublin as well some of our bus routes numbers and their routes are from the days of the old trains but still short sighted the last old tram line was the GNRI hill of Howth. Another stupid decision was Todd Andrew’s decision to close the Harcourt to Bray railway line.
*Edited as the Cross River Tram scheme was not going to re-use the Holborn underpass, merely follow the old route Not sure about "short-sighted", in hindsight might be a better phrase, at the time the long term "plan" was to de-densify cities, migrating the populations out into "new towns" built around car ownership and modernising housing-stock, thus apeing the successful post-war US economy driven by suburban consumerism. Reducing density reduces the practicality and economic efficiency of frequent mass-transit systems. The tech behind the internal combustion engine with cheap oil was more flexible and cheaper to maintain within the life-span of a vehicle too. I guess in the context of the bubble of the time it seemed like a cunning plan. Obviously the dense city as an eternal economic engine never went away, so there was a failure to understand a fundamental truth there, urban planning was very much a mono-culture of focusing on the physical spatiality of a place as a means for management (e.g. the "garden city" to cure the ills of urban poverty framed by rural health and morals) but even then long distance commuting in the service economy was already a thing in the UK so I dont quite get how anyone imagined that chipping away at the golden goose of the urban centre to build huge car-parks and limitless urban motorway capacity was ever going to work out. In a way the car ownership design coincidentally fore-shadowed the de-industrialisation of the Thames and other industrial cities in the UK which killed off the walk/cycle-to-work uban layout of the late 19th C/early 20th C industrial design. Like investing in the jet plane industry instead of railways or covering every possible street with tarmac, removing the tram network was more the double-edged sword of being a contemporary leading economic and technological power where the ability to make sudden wide-spread changes at scale leaves you gambling all eggs in one basket when it comes to the future. Not really an excuse for not having a decent tram network in the 21st C now though, ultra/light rail is relatively inexpensive and now with all sorts of battery/storage technology options availble, although some need more initial infrastructure investment than others, like Hydrogen. So now it is more a cultural/political blind-spot/short-sightedness where some think that the whims of past political decisions converts into some sort of a human right today, basically what was unleashed in the suburbanist urban design changes was to embed consumerism as an entitlement into the popular psychology. I recall the fiasco of Londons Cross-River tram in the 00s which would have run over and parrallel to the old Holborn underpass, some London boroughs, managed to delay the project because they thought it would impede the car/private vehicle driver, enough to delay the project until the Conservative austerity programme killed it off when Boris became Mayor. Fast forward to today, Ironically, or rather unsurprisingly, even bus use is declining because of congestion, something that would not have impacted a tram network, resulting from a decade of increasing car/private vehicle usage driven by a de-regulated taxi industry, which financially incentivises buying and driving a private vehicle around the streets, and a booming non-centralised, laissez faire delivery industry but the blame instead has been shifted to the bicycle!
The tunnel was also used during construction of the Elizabeth Line for a Compensation Grout Shaft... To firm up the ground above the tunnels and reduce risk of subsidence etc.
Until the bottom half on Wembley High Road was resurfaced in the early 1980s, you could still see ghosts of the tramlines on the tarmac, especially near St John the Evangelist Anglican Parish Church. The 18 bus route was a tram route, that original went from Sudbury to Central London. The original bus route that took over was from Sudbury to London Bridge. The Kingsway Tram Tunnel was used as a location in an episode of Sherlock. You can see a lot of trams and tramlines in World War Two photographs and there is still some colour film of them from the end of their era. With reference to the white tram, London was prone to coal fire smog in those days, so it was probably turning grey. 😁 Bus lanes were the solution to buses being held up in traffic, but to be honest there have never been enough, so to this day London buses hunt in packs. 😁 Ironically the Croydon tram network uses a section of rail line closed by the Beeching Report implementation.
My late mother used the 18 from London Bridge to Grays Inn Road when she worked at the Times, useful route connecting Kings X to London Bridge without needing the tube.
The recently Superlooped 607 bus was given that number to commemorate the tram route it replaced. The Brixton Hill Tram Depot survives (and was constructed in 1923 if 'anyone' is looking for a topic).
Not only in London do buses hunt in packs; it's a world wide phenomenon, especially on routes which ought to have higher passenger capacity vehicles than buses...such as trams!
Yup, pretty much every major US city once had trams/streetcars (and some still have them or are building new ones)! These systems had the same rolling stock in the 1930s, thanks to the PCC. The PCC is short for Presidents' Conference Committee, a committee that consisted of representatives of several large operators of urban electric street railways plus potential manufacturers. Their goal was to design a streamlined, comfortable, quiet, and fast accelerating and braking streetcar that would be operated by a seated operator using floor mounted pedal controls to better meet the needs of the street railways and appeal to riders. And the result was the PCC, and thus they became an American icon. Los Angeles for example wasn't always a huge traffic mess! At one point in time, Los Angeles had the largest trolley system in the WORLD! The streetcar system was primarily operated by Pacific Electric (1901-1961) and developed into the largest trolley system in the world by the 1920s. This breadth of scale enabled residents and visitors alike to routinely traverse the Los Angeles region, from Santa Monica to San Bernardino. Many modern communities were built around the streetcar network and retain its influence in their gridded street network and relatively dense form. The system operated for over half a century, and at its peak included over 1,100 miles of track with 900 electric trolley cars!
Brilliant as ever Jago, but my copy of 'Lost London' by Philip Davies, says 'Its claim to be Dickens' Old Curiosity Shop is entirely spurious - the name having been painted on the front to attract business to a dealer in books, paintings and old china in 1868' (the novel dates from 1841).
As a fan of old trams, I watched this film with great pleasure. But I especially liked the last 30 seconds. It was unexpected and wonderful! It was just a magical movie! And I immediately liked it!
I occasionally work at that "bar" you mentioned where it comes out under the bridge. It is actually a cabaret club, which i think is a more interesting fate for a tram exit than just a regular bar
Crich tramway museum makes a cracking day out, especially so if you like trams. Those who don't like trams should probably go somewhere else. I've never been quite sure why it is where it is, but it's central in England, and if we are going to have a museum then it will need to somewhere.
I complained that the brown signs directing one to the Tramway Museum were 'last minute' and few and far between and one needs a map or satnav to negotiate some awkward turns in country roads to get there. The lassie at the Museum said they just have to accept what the Council decides.
The Tramway Museum Society chose this site because the route reused the trackbed of a former mineral railway. Another site near a mill in Bury, Lancashire had also been considered.
An excellent video. I went to see the entrance for myself, inspired by Jay Foreman, but I’ve yet to get inside. I’ve read up on the tunnel but some of the pictures and footage you used were ones I’ve not seen before, so that was a special treat!
I remember my dad taking me on a tram in 1950/51 which used the Kingsway tunnel and we ended up on the Embankment, Some years later (1962), I started working in Lincoln's Inn, and as a fifteen year old commuting into Waterloo, remember when they cut into the tunnel to make the Strand Underpass. In the 50's I lived in Muswell Hill, just up the road from Cranley Gardens Station - which I recall you did a video on a while back, Great video as usual.
Thanks for bringing back happy memories. I had the good fortune to visit the Festival of Britain in 1951. The 33 tram ride from Manor House to the Embankment was magical, little did I know as a fourteen year old that they would all be gone the following year. Compared to now they really where the good old days.
Speaking of the Festival of Britain, new tracks were laid around the County Hall in June/October 1950 to accommodate traffic arrangements for the Festival. So new tracks were being laid 20 months before the whole system's closure!
Thanks Jago. I can vaguely remember the trams when I was a toddler and my late Father often told me of the hazards of a front wheel of a bicycle dropping into the gap formed by tram tracks in the road surface
It was that tunnel that is to blame for my general tube neediness! Driving by way back I the day as a small child I asked my dad about it. He remembered it well in use and explained there were platforms down there for trams > I was hooked!
Coming from the midlands, I remember occasionally visiting Crich Tramway Museum. A most rural setting for the most urban of transport. Orange trams from east Berlin rub shoulders with the skinny trams of British cities. Next to farmland. I’m just old enough to remember the last of the trolley buses in Sheffield. Sheffield was one of the first cities to bring Trams back.
I had a shufti down there many years ago. It's amazing how far a hard hat, high-vis jacket, clipboard and purposeful stride could get you. The idea of putting the flood control system down there... A literal stones' throw from the river, did strike me as a bit dodgy, and also rather amusing, as if whoever had okayed it, had no idea that the flood would come from the damn great river just across the road from the end of the tunnel. I know it was cut off by the road modernisation, but it would still flood, nonetheless. 🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆
How pleasant it is to listen to a real human voice in familiar English, talking about a feature of London that is very familiar to me. I have vivid memories of turning sharp right off the Embankment and into the tunnel in my young boyhood. Now THAT's a memory that is irreplaceable. Thanks for fleshing it out!
Thanks for an excellent and interesting video. The Kingsway Tram Subway has always been of fascination to me. As far as I know, that was London's only tram subway. I grew up in Sydney Australia and back in the 1950's, there was a tram subway running from Wynyard to the Harbour Bridge. It was one of my favourite places to visit as a child. The London trams ceased running just a month before I was born, though as I lived here in Australia, there wasn't much chance of me seeing them in operation. These days, I live in Melbourne Australia, which currently has a large tram system in operation.
Born in 1940 I lived on Green Lanes (nr Clissold Park) and as a boy used often to get the tram from Manor House just to go to the embankment via the tunnel. An unusual feature of those trams was the way the back of the seats swiveled so that you could always face forward. I seem to remember that the driver changed ends on return journeys being able to control the tram from either end.
We used to use the vehicle underpass to avoid Aldwych regularly in the '70's and '80's when returning from my Mothers parents in Lambeth on our way back home. I can remember being told about tram subway complete with stations, although we were very familiar with the Tube/Underground, it seemed a bit bazar that something more akin to a double decker bus used it? Thanks for a great video, definitely worth a visit/revisit.
Another great video Jago. I remember being fascinated with the tram tunnel in the early 1970s. Back then my dad used to drive everywhere in London as you could always find somewhere to park. We would often come from the South Bank (my dad was a film buff so we used to go to the NFT) and travel through the Strand underpass. It is only in the last few years that I discovered the original route of the tram tunnel came out under Waterloo bridge. I bet there is a further section of the tunnel left behind that bar up till the road tunnel starts?
Tram tunnels are practical and used in European cities where a full Metro would be too expensive. The combination of double deck trams and tunnel was ambitious, thanks for the interesting history lesson!
Excellent stuff as ever, Jago. I wonder if this was the British equivalent of the “premetro” which is a tram system that goes underground (the one in Brussels is interesting.)
The Strand Underpass was still in use for public transport until last year, when the single deck route 521 was withdrawn. It came as a surprise to me to read that in the 19 years London Transport ran trams (1933-1952) it did not build a single tram - every single tram in its fleet was inherited from the predecessor private and municipal fleets.
@@OscarOSullivan LPTB was steadily replacing trams with trolleybuses in the 1930s - a programme that woukd have been compeleted by about 1942 had the War not stopped further work.
It’s fascinating that as a Londoner, I pass by here almost everyday and I never knew the History of the place, thank you for the insight and History lesson of the old London trams.
A similar (though blocked off) tunnel survivor is still visible just East of the cathedral in St. Paul, Minnesota. The open cut entrance is even visible on Google Maps north of University Avenue and east of the church.
Great video - I grew up in Luton, they had trams from 1908 until 1932 (before my time!), although some of the tracks were still visible when I was a kid! Then I moved to Milton Keynes - the large 'boulevards' either side of the shopping centre were originally planned to have monorails running down them, but these never materialised!
Interesting! Thanks! Streetcars in the Boro of Manhattan (it's post-amalgamation name) were also conduit cars and for the same reasons - no one likes wires (sad, that). "Outer Boro" cars had regular overhead lines. I'd have to dig, but I believe there was a point where cars crossing the East River from Brooklyn or maybe Queens had a "pit" where workers under the tracks would engage the conduit collector while the motorman or conductor would pull down the pole so that the same car could operate in Manhattan. NYC did have some streetcar subways, but I don't think they were as extensive as those in Boston (where the first one was dug in 1897) or Philadelphia, the latter two still operating as intended. Great stuff - thanks again!
Crazy how we go around in circles! Trams are making a comeback in UK cities after ripping them all up. I'm sure that it wasn't so much a pollution or environmental consideration in the past, but trams make sense in the 21st century!
Yes, they could and did so very regularly. It was route 501 then later 521 from the 1960s and they were frequently using the tunnel. Earlier this year in April, TfL decided that they didn't need the 521 which was already using electric buses for 7 years at that point as no one was using it (cobbles, it was very busy) and cut it.
There was a pub in Tooting called "The Tooting Tram" that was an old tram shed-There was one track going in and once inside it fanned out to 3 or four other tracks. I think it's a nightclub now. Here in Toronto, the King Street streetcar stops across the street from my apartment. I ride it often.
Respectfully I would point out that the Fleet (river, ditch, sewer) doesn’t run through Holborn or near this tramway. The Fleet in fact runs about a mile to the east, north-south under Farringdon Street and Blackfriars Road.
That's my issue with the video too. The Wikipedia entry for the tunnel also mentions the Fleet Sewer, but I suspect both sources are getting it confused with Bazelgette's Victoria Embankment sewer, which runs along the north bank of the Thames, crossing the line of Waterloo Bridge.
Thanks Jago. Great video. Having passed by Southampton Row a number of times, the tram tunnel there held an aura of fascination.🚊 Great to see that London has no had a tram revival in the form of the Tramlink running from Wimbledon.
I got to see in there during the early seventies with my grandfather who was a recently retired executive to the GLC in regards to water and seweraging and had due to his first name being Walter the nickname "Walter Works" prompting my grandfather to use his middle name of Robert from that point on. Anyway he took me down to visit the flood defence cabin which had come under his purview and I got to see the almost pristine condition tram station in all its glory with posters still intact for the most part.
Congratulations on reaching over 200k subscribers. I do like your content and videos and what you talk about pretty much the history of London. As always keep up the good work.
As someone who took the B line daily in Boston, double deck trams sound good, but part of me thinks having a clearer view of the mice etc would not be conducive to happy living.
Having been stuck on a bus in London traffic when the Tube was out of action, trams on a separate route would have been most useful! There's a guided busway locally to me, which saves getting stuck in traffic on the motorway.
NewCross Tram Depot was not far from where we lived. Loved the trams and was sorry to see them go. And they used domestic electricity not expensive imported fuel.
Wish it was still around today that would have provided a north-south link for Londoners to travelling straight into Central London. Which now you got the Northern Line, Bakerloo Line, Victoria Line and of course Thameslink.
LCC 1 is just finishing being restored at Crich, and should be in service next year. During strip down, despite the board of trade fireproofing requirements, it was found sawdust had been put between bulkhead panels for sound deadening.
I feel very lucky to have regularly driven a coach through the Aldwych Underpass. The old Plaxton Paramounts went through there with no bother. Used to unease the novice driver and passenger though. Couldn't do that today of course. A bit of excitement taken away.
Very interesting to reflect on the unfolding of London's transport as it developed to cater for the population growth, and the advancement of technology. Makes one wonder about a hundred years and beyond into the future. It's also good to see how some of these vehicles have found their way into museums so they won't be lost without trace. One thing I would like to know, dear Jago, is the variety of trees that line those London streets. They are pleasing to the eye with lovely shade of green and don't grow excessively large so as to become a nuisance to traffic, and with invasive root systems that cause problems to underground services and building foundations. Thank you for the hours of educational entertainment. You are my instructor incognito.
Thank you Jago for this informative video, great stuff! I had heard about the tram tunnel, but didn't know much about it. I learned a lot from your video. Very educational.
Jago, this is an interesting and entertaining video as always, but I think you're confusing the Fleet with the Victoria Embankment sewer. The Fleet runs some distance to the east, joining the Thames under Blackfriars Bridge.
How could you not have mentioned the Goon Show Series 5 Episode 9 "The Last Tram (from Clapham)". The Kingsway tunnel has a starring role in the show and it’s an interesting view of how Londoners saw what was happening in their city at the time. Easy to find via Google and one of their funniest shows! Must get one of those tours asap!
Bluebottle asked if he would be 'deadied' if he connected up the wiring. "Go ahead laddie, it's perfectly safe!" Maybe I confuse the episodes but the subway used the conduit system of pick-up.
@@johnjephcote7636 He does say that, but I think the wiring is supposed to be for the flats the lay we’re going to be built over it. They definitely weren’t engineers!
@torchris1 The workmen building the flats turned on the power whilst Bluebottle was holding the cables he was taking down the subway to jump start the tram
@@norbitonflyer5625 Yes, of course! I’ll have to go back and listen to it again tonight! I love the line “Luckily the tunnel was only 20 yards wide so Ned Seagoon was able to stretch out his arms and feel his way along both sides.”
Do you know anything about Clapton Bus Garage? As you no doubt know this used to be a tram shed. When it was converted to a bus garage a lot of the surface was left intact. You can still see where the tramlines ran. The location of the turntable can still be found. Other features are still present but I'm not an expert in identifying these. I'm pretty sure you know more about this tram shed than I do, even though I've been a bus driver here for over 25 years. I also was here in 1987 for the last six months of its life as a London Transport bus garage. (I can still remember drivers and conductors crying on the day its closure was announced.)
The underpass was used by Red Arrow Buses for a while, but it always seemed that if you were going to break down then it was inside there, and then have to wait for someone from Waterloo to come along.
In very many locations tram rails were not pulled up, but simply tarmac’d over. For instance the section off Pentonville Road onto King’s Cross Road down to Farringdon Road still has tram rails set in cobbles under the tarmac - in was all uncovered during major resurfacing in the 1990s and simply covered over again.
In Hastings they caused problems when the council fitted vehicle detection to traffic lights as the wires sensed the tracks below. At first they couldn't work out what the problem was and caused a few problems
Twickenham Bridge over the river had the tramlines on the surface and highly polished by the traffic into the 1960s and they were abandoned for trolleybuses before the War.
Great video Jago. I went on one of the Hidden London tours of the Kingsway Tram Tunnel back in the summer, a great experience, I would recommend i to al.
LCC No 1 was a huge improvement on previous types of tram - totally modern and highly luxurious by comparison to its predecessors. Unfortunately, LPTB came about, run by, basically, people from the Underground Group, which meant, as far as road transport was concerned, ex-London General Omnibus Company folk. Although there was a Tram & Trolleybus Department, where the former LCC people were dominant, this only lasted about 15 years before the bus people took over and electric traction was thereafter doomed.
An absolutely marvellous, and erudite report. And of of course, shows us, that ineptitude gross bungling, and mismanagement, ruined a great system, including, railways. I despair at the ghastly decisions by alternating Governments, since “Day One” !. What could have been !. And, what do we have now ? !. Many thanks and, Kindest Regards.
In fairness Red Arrow express single deck bus routes used the northbound Strand Underpass (peak hours at least )which I suppose retained the public transport use of it for many years. Driving it in a car is a bit of an experience , it should be less scary than the Rotherhithe tunnel but the gradient and curve radiuses can make it a fair challenge.
Great vid. Missed opportunity to start the first shot of the tunnel with "This! This! This is the entrance to the Kingsway tram tunnel..." a la Jay Foreman 🤭
In reference to it being used as a film location, I'm sure there's a film starring (a young) Charles Dance which is filmed substantially below London street level and includes the Tram subway.
2:45 In 1902 only Boston had a tunnel built solely to improve transit service. A year earlier that subway began lending its outer ("wall") tracks to the new Main Line Elevated. This lasted till 1908 when the el built its own Washington St Tunnel. New York's streetcar tunnel originated as a cut through Murray Hill the New York & Harlem RR built in 1837 to allow access to its 27th St Terminal. Enforcement of an earlier steam ban led to horsecar conversion in 1858, by which time the cut had been roofed over. 1901 saw conduit electrification, with abandonment in 1935. Today it's an auto tunnel. Other streetcar tunnels necessitated by topography also existed in Los Angeles and Atlanta. There were 3 tunnels under the Chicago River used by cable cars that saw streetcar service after cable operations ceased in 1906.
Jago, I recently stumbled across a FB post about the ‘Great Western Railway Operatic Society’. There was an image of a programme for their production of ‘The Yeoman Of The Guard’ at New Scala Theatre, February 1927. I know you’re also a big Theatre fan, a video about this society (and perhaps others like it) would be super cool! ✌🏻
New York's equivalents,and there were two,are 1) The number 7 tunnel from Queens Boro Plaza to Grand Central,as it was built for streetcars,bu never used! 2)The streetcar tunnel from Grand Central Terminal to 30th Street or thereabouts,which put in,during the early 1900's[not to sure of the dating,with apologies],still in place,and used for automobiles 🚘! Of course,there is the Tremont Subway in Boston,thankfully fully active,known as the Green Line,in this day,and many name changes in between! Thank you,Jago,and may the Kingsway be remembered for its traffic reduction on the surface! Thank you 😇 😊!!
Hi Jago from Spain. I remember the trams and the tunnel also the trams along the Embankment - memories, memories. My favourites were the trolleybuses but I could never fathom why London's trolleybuses were six-wheelers whereas ours in Southend managed very well with four.
I can't find a picture os a Southend trolleybus which makes it clear, but I have a feeling that the two-axled buses actually had six wheels (to distribute the weght - like motorbuses) - two on the front axle and four on the rear. It means the seating has to accommodate this; I'm not sure why trolleybuses so often used the three-axle arrangement - maybe an expert can supply the answer!
I did my degree (1976) at the Central School of Art adjacent to the northern entrance 6:12. My tutor was Douglas Scott designer of the Routemaster.9:08. My office is opposite the 'TramShed' in Rivington Street 0:21 , the old powerstation/Damien Hirst Restaurant and now Vitra Furniture showroom.....
This is really funny because literally last night I was recommended a video of some people who explored the old tramway tunnels through a secret entrance then the next day you upload this jago
