In my LEO days, I was at a ballistics seminar the FBI put on. Their agent was bemoaning the use of short barreled AR platforms. He went on an on about how much power was lost in sub 16" barrels. "You just cannot guarantee a one-shot stop with these numbers," he said. "Yeah," said a SWAT guy with a tiny AR. "But that's why I can just pull the trigger 29 more times." FBI guy: "Fair point..."
@@Hoplopfheil how about the heaviest 5.56 load shoot that from short barrel. In theory heavier bullet tries to stay in barrel longer thus absorbing more pressure inturn pushing bullet out faster🤔 see what performance you get from chronograph with heavy load in 556 vs 300
@@MFKR696 Hey buddy? If anybody is looking like the new guy who overcompensates by acting like a know it all here, its you. Especially with the Zoomer "Mall Ninja" line.
@@operationalaf3414 Yeah and SBR should be a marketing term not a regulatory classification. But like the old saying goes. Wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first.
We tested 62gr Fusion from a 7" in real 10% ballistic gelatin on the Arfcom channel a little while ago. It's still pretty rowdy. Obviously less spicy than a longer barrel but not exactlya Nerf dart.
I dropped a buck with a 62gr fusion from a 20" AR @ 200ish yds DRT; it's become my favorite AR round. I suspect the results would be the same as a 7" pistol within 50yds
Most 55 grain soft point rounds are still going to have far better terminal ballistics. If you watch the Po' Boy Special channel, he does a lot of ammo testing through a 7" SBR with probably the most data of any channel on 7" AR's. The issue with 62 grain rounds is that the don't hit the 2200 FPS threshold for consistent velocity based tissue destruction on al types of body tissue. This can happen at lower velocities, but just not consistently on all types of human tissue. I use PPU 55 grain soft-point ammo in my 7" AR pistol for home defense and it gets close to 2300 fps. It also does devastating damage in ballistics gel. The reason why people dismiss these shorties stems from military people who won't touch them. They are correct in that after 50 yards, they lose a lot of terminal ballistics capability. However for home defense where you're not likely to shoot at a target past 25 yards, it will definitely do more damage than a 9mm carbine or pistol. For the issue of its notorious fireeball, I bought a Stoner linear compensator that did an excellent job of pushing forward all of the blast while keeping decibel levels lower by the shooter's ear. So I got the noise level down to that of about a standard AR-15. Still loud, but definitely a LOT less loud than before. That, a AFG, a flashlight, and a holosun red dot, make it a very maneuverable home defense firearm that allows me to keep the barrel pointed up towards danger areas as I move through tight doorways and hallways. The downside is that the short dwell time means that it really slams the bolt hard and causes premature wear on the parts. So things break faster and you have to keep on top of it by always inspecting it after every range grip and cleaning. But overall I think it's worth it.
@@wigon I get wanting to move through your home, clearing rooms, and all that jazz (I have done it too). But I’d just offer this bit of unsolicited advice: doing CQB (or whatever acronym is “in” these days) alone is a sure fire way to lose any home team advantage you might have, especially if you’re outnumbered. Secure your family, friends, gerbils, whatever, and set up an ambush point (preferably from a fortified/armored position). The odds will be greatly in your favor, regardless of how well trained your opponent(s) might be. As for the topic at hand, I agree that it’s ballistically superior to most handguns and most handguns calibers, offering many advantages but also a few disadvantages.
At my first police department in MN, about 50mins away from DPMS’s original factory by St. Cloud, they traded almost all of their full auto HK MP5s direct to DPMS for 16 inch rifles and Kitty Kats. My understanding is the Kitty Kats were primarily used by the motorcycle unit. So Harleys with Kitty Kats strapped to the side…
Yeah I keep seeing RU-vidrs talk about this retro AR tend trend that’s “everywhere”. What we have PSA putting out their H&R stuff and that’s it. Hopefully PSA pushes other companies to start a retro line. I mean PSA of all companies are more in tune with what is going on, strange times.
@@Localjadedealer Honestly the fact that retro ARs ever went out of style is a shame. They're far classier and in some cases more reliable than all the Gucci modern shit.
This is actually the content I like the most from you. It's not just about sharing niche info or showcasing obscure guns, but it's the admiration for them and the very personal thought process behind that.
For science I put my ears on the line and fired an 8.5 inch AR with an aggressive muzzle break, with no hearing protection. It already generated an extremely unnerving pressure wave that washes over anyone standing nearby, but after firing it once I set it on safe, put it on the truck tailgate, and ran around screaming while holding my ears for a minute or two. Imagine having ice picks stabbed into your ears, or putting q-tips in them while Robert Downey Jr does a Sherlock Holmes "Discombobulate" on you. That's what it felt like, I thought I ruptured my eardrums. These short ARs are essentially repeating flashbangs in addition to being rifles. It's incredibly fun, as long as you're ears aren't open.
Hearing loss is cumulative, you really shouldn't have done that. I know people who are already deaf in some frequency ranges because of their military service.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD I’m deaf in some frequencies from not being taught the importance of hearing protection as a youngster. Of course, had I known then how deaf my father was at the time, I might have taken a clue. Live and learn…
@@justinjohnson202 I used to buy trail mix for you guys as a bribe to get my orders shipped to customers, LOL The munchies were in the file cabinet where the orders were.
Friend of mine has a 7.5" set up. it is indeed goofy. I still have a hard time with "rifles" that have a barrel shorter than the shoulder thing. Still though, these things were an aesthetic, like Clear and Present Danger, with the OA-93.
One of my friends used to check one out of his department armory. It was awesome in same way a portable repeating flash bang: HK51 was. The gun ran good for the first 8-10 mags. After that reliability plummeted unless cleaned or at least lubed. It was persnickety on what mags it liked, strong springs were a must, but was a hoot when it ran.
I think you somehow understated the blast from a 7” AR. I got a BCA side charger on super mega sale and thought it would make a nice backpacker. It was just a magazine fed flash bang. The concussion under a covered shooting bay made follow up shots almost impossible. For lulz I stuck one of the eBay tank style comps on it and I may have permanent sinus damage from that. Fun to bring out in the range and dare my buddies to shoot it. Stick with a caliber made for dummy short barrels kids.
Honestly, Hop, I think I understand what you mean about this one. While I'm no gun hipster in my preference, one of the really short CAR-15s, it's definitely in the same world, I believe.
not at all. car-15 would have the moderator to add to reliability like a booster making m4 length (true 14.5 m4) no adjustable stock. he could move the brace out to make longer lop. that muzzle brake...no 7.5in barrel....also NO,. forget the a2 sights, grip, handguard (drilled and fluted free float tube), non tear drop forward assist its literally just a short, fast bastard of parts thrown together best for range fun
Man, you mirrored my comment! Shotgun News, porn for reclusive introverts who liked guns more than girls. And to this day none of my firearms has wrecked my credit or acted like a psycho.
@@jackjohnson291 if you grin like a little schoolgirl when you pick it up, you've done it correctly. 😂 Also, the reason I could feel the muzzle blast on my teeth, because I was grinning the whole time. Just like an hk53
Cool beans on Hops for switching to Safe before re-engaging. I usually just put finger off, then pointed muzzle to the ground for safety, but you went beyond.
I had a Thunder Technologies (Oregon mfg) 7" AR; a very well-machined product, but its reach exceeded its grasp. The semi-direct gas impingement (yes, I mean that) of the AR requires a certain barrel length for the powder to burn off and appropriate gasses to develop and expand. While I don't know what that precise length is, I can say from experience that 7 inches is far below that threshold. I'd estimate that any barrel length less than 18 inches probably needs a piston system to function reliably. That in itself begs the question of why try to force-meme an AR into what is at that length Krinkov territory. I'll see myself out now...
Looking at some ballistics charts, it seems like depending on the ammo this is still slightly more powerful than 5.7x28 out of the same length barrel, although certain configurations (like the p90/p50) achieves almost identical performance out of the same length guns. Very interesting but definitely highly effective even out of a short barrel.
It was a comparison between bullet weights rather than ammo types, 5.56 does have much more power. It has more powder and usually a heavier bullet, but since the bullets fired out of this short ar aren't reaching adequate speeds for what 5.56 was designed to do, (ideally 2300-2450 ish) is the minimum where the round can still dump enough energy to create wound cavitation and fragment, but even with 55 grain stuff unless you were to handload it would be coming out at just under 2200 fps at the muzzle. Something lighter would get you back to that ideal number but thats where 5.7x28 comes in. When you get to these really small grain amounts the difference between 350 and 450 foot pounds of energy is significant, but you could just as easily do those numbers with 9mm. The application for this isn't really about maximizing energy transfer, it's armor penetration in cqb situations, and if you have a 31 grain 5.7 vs a 45 grain 5.56 pill traveling between 100 fps difference. You gotta look at what you're working with. Yes, it's more powerful, By 14 grains and 100 fps. But they are doing the same job with much more potential downsides. That's why it's an interesting comparison!
@Peenus_cancer oh definitely, I'd still take a p50 with a brace and suppressor than this, it's definitely got potential though, with the right ammo and muzzle break/suppressor at least inside cqb distances this thing is pretty neat.
I had a 7 inch AR, a PWS Diablo- awesome and fun gun. I put a griffin armament hammer comp on it and it seemed to increase the blast by about 3 billion percent. Completely impractical but oh so much fun to shoot. It felt like something was trying to punch it’s way out of your chest and sinuses when firing it- so weird.
Damn that sucks, my Oracle upper was garbage. Gas key came lose within 100 rounds and the gas block was barely screwed in. LGS ripped me off during COVID
I like it. Not so much the gun, but just that Hop found himself a dream gun. My reasonable dream gun is just a modified Blood Diamond carbine. The 'Blood Diamond: Director's Cut' as I'll call it, because it's going to be a midlength gas system with an A5 buffer. I'm still doing the proper handguard (already made them) and getting the little details correct, I'm just waiting for the A2 upper and A1 lower to be available before I sent the barrel off to get done up.
I have an original DPMS Kitty Kat AR Pistol. 7.5” barrel. So loud in 3gun that even with muffs AND plugs the range officers really REALLY hate you. Shots so loud it screws up the shot counters during the match. LoL.
The Kitty Kat seems completely impractical and I can’t find a single reason why I need one….but I need one 🤷🏻♂️ Oh and you can clearly see Socko plotting your demise as you attempted to rub the belly. I’d sleep with one eye open if I were you Hop. Furious murder mitten haymakers could be in your near future.
It would be even more of a hoot with a cookie cutter comp, my “shitbox” AR has a 6 inch AGP barrel with a cookie cutter and that thing is absolutely insane. I believe Tim Lafrance also made a super short AR called the M16K
Whoever edits these videos, THANK YOU for using yellow text over a black shadow - it's nice that I can actually read the corrections rather than hoping for the best with other Guntubers
I actually have always kind of liked this little pistol AR's, with the carry handle and classic AR sights / look to it. Had a 7.5 inch Springfield Armory Saint Victor, which is alright but almost would have preferred this one instead. However there's really absolutely no need for multiple guns this size, in 5.56 maybe a 300 Blackout or 7.62 x 39. But even then, I think I'd have to go with at least a 9 , 9.5 or 10 inch barrel.
Love this thing, and I am actually astounded at your AR15 and Platform Knowledge. Not a lot of younger gentlemen know the things that you do. Oh, and I love the Cat almost popped you.
When I was 18ish I took my mom to work one day while her car was in the shop, and my route back out of the downtown area took me by my state's capital building. I assume someone of some importance was visiting that day since there were a large number of cops standing around the perimeter of the building armed with MP5s, 16" ARs, and one SWAT member who had for some reason decided it was a good day to break out a DPMS Kitty Kat with a Beta C-Mag.
The cat is not a "jerk", it is a cold blooded psychopath, that would just as soon eat you the moment you cease to be source of food and/or acceptable petting. I know, I have two. Anyway, DPMS had some really cool/wacky stuff.
years ago i had an xp100 in 221fireball. had a lot of fun with it. i sold it and a few years later i wanted another one. i found one but 221 was pricey and although i have dies i’m lazy. i took it to a gunsmith and for 15 dollars he rechamberd it for 223. dirt cheap ammo was everywhere and it wasn’t that different than the 221 except for the huge flame. good times.
5:50 The AR57 upper is back in production, and old production is still available! Great option for a short build, and the price of 5.7 is ever lowering.. and it's just cool to run a P90 mag on top of an AR..
I had urge to wear ear pro just for watching this video lol. I also found out that I am somehow unsubscribed to this channel. RU-vid is at it again. Love your work
Pretty much the idea I have when I discuss PDW/PCC for home defense or truck gun. Distance isn't the issue, suppression and potential mobility are. And if you're worried about a group in body armor knocking in your door, instead of punks with bricks at the driver's side door, step it up to rifle caliber. Nice choice, Hop.
I've been in the planning stages of a very similar build for about the past two years. I think a mini Delta/Gothic Serpent Colt 723 setup would be a perfect baseline. Start with a Colt C7 upper and Colt lower receiver. Find a quality 7" or 7.5" .300BLK barrel or have one chopped/threaded (preferably 1/5 but 1/7 could still work). Build the lower with either an LMT or LWRC PDW buffer system and a chopped CAR stock. Modifiy a pair of skinny 6 hole handguards to fit. Add an Aimpoint 9000SC in a set of Leupold 30mm rings w/ a Weaver carry handle mount. Throw on a @turquoise_paintpen/OnyxArms reproduction SF 660 body with a Modlite head. Lastly, finish it off with an Otter Creek Labs Lithium 9 suppressor. Thanks for reminding me to spend more money..
yes i remember these, a few got imported to switzerland and a friend had one. the firing pin was a pot metal around a nail like object and did wear out fast. the thing did never really cycle and back then we did not had any pig tail gastubes. but it sure was fun to look at.
These were rare, because they were before the internet, and before pistol braces. We would use a pistol buffer and a table leg rubber foot, or foot for a bar stool to cover the buffer tube. These had a ferocious muzzle blast. Everyone is aware of the inefficiency of velocity, but it still is able to put a 77gr bullet on target at 1800fps+ in an MP5 sized package that takes common M16 mags and ammo. I've had several now, I currently have a PWS Diablo mk107 as well as an extar, and Aero COP, and a few short 300blk guns with huge concussion with super sonic ammo. I would love an HK51, just for fun. They just lack long range. Deafening. I have an old Oly Arms "kitty kat" in 45acp now with a carry handle, that utilized the 7.5 inch barrel better, less muzzle blast. They are fun. And they are a blast at an indoor range
Do you think you could expand on the cerberus group incident in a video? As a newcomer to the gun world, I was always confused when people would refer to brands or companies that don't exist anymore or only kinda exist sometimes
The group of firearm manufacturers was actually referred to as the freedom group. It was a holding company of a bunch of different gun manufacturers that was owned by Cerberus Capital Management that came into existence around 2007. It comprised not only of just DPMS, but also Remington Arms, Marlin, and Bushmaster to name a few. It was notable that once a company was bought by the freedom group that the quality control of their products went down significantly, especially with Remington-made firearms. Freedom group eventually became Remington Outdoor Company but all of the companies stayed under the ownership of Cerberus. Eventually, the whole holding company imploded when Remington went bankrupt in 2020 and all the different manufacturers under them were bought by different companies, such as PSA acquiring DPMS.
@@dylanridge-storer2471 Bushmaster was such a blow as the pandemic not only wiped out my savings for an acr but the company reacquired into existence still has no timeframe for their product relaunch..
@@motherurck7542 Yep. They owned Chrysler, Chrysler Capital, GMAC, and Talecris BioTherapeutics. I work in the plasma industry and we opened plasma centers for Talecris from 2007-2009. They also owned Blue Bird buses and had their hands in a couple of Hollywood production companies. They also owned Albertson's supermarkets.
Hop, another incredible video dude! I learned so many new things today as I had never heard of this gun. Keep doing videos like this. You rock! You still have my favorite channel on RU-vid.
Looks like someone got smart. AR15's went from long 223/5.56 rifles down to the car9 in 9mm and a shorter configuration and now that shorter configuration is in 223/5.56 .. very nice
I remember my first ever AR was a 7.5” Anderson. That and my Taurus G2C and I thought I was ready to take on the world 😂 we all started somewhere right?
Pretty cute! I’d take a 300 version for sure. Years ago I built a cmmg 12.5” kino upper and put an a1 carry handle on it. B5 mid length hand guard. Had a nice retro mid-length dissipator vibe. BCM is selling an upper now!
I made one a while back, 7.5, used a cheap free float pic rail, wouldn't run so slapped on a thread adapter and put a aks74u booster and thing runs like a sewing machine, louder than hell, brighter than the sun.
Honestly I just appreciate that you have guns built for what the math says is best, and then guns that throw all that out the window for fun.... I just wish I had your NVG/IR laser budget.....
