Matsuno's boss: So you nerfed archers again, right? It's in your contract. I want to see archers hitting knights and doing 1 damage. Matsuno: Yes, you will definitely see that. Matsuno's boss: Excellent. In that case, I see no need to check your work. Ship the game. Matsuno, giggling into his Centeol's Rib while stacking buffs and debuffs: Hehehe.
i was wondering about your content being uploaded in 480p, if your hardware was restricting your work. Glad to hear you were able to upgrade, looking forward to more of your content!
It was, main laptop was old, though reliable. It gave out during the Octo 2 video, which is why I ended up having to use one with scuffed audio on release day, due to it being the only ok backup while I was figuring audio for it, and the backup literally taking a minute + per turn to do anything.
Yea the archer is the chaotic evil class in the game. It made sense that they get shunned when other dps sources are just so easy, consistent and you don't have to think hard when using them but once you learn how to use archers, they hurt hard. I recently re did a potd run and I had to change bows every few floors to take advantage of those stats. I would say that ch3 early ch4 being the hardest part of the game (by far) that also stacks with when archers are their weakest really did not help the class too. I said this on the class tier list video, because the floor is so low I don't consider them top tier but just a step below, which is already above 80% of the other classes, but someone with less play time will not be able to properly use it, this game is too complicated to have one of the supposedly basic classes in RPG history be this messy lol, classic TO drugs. I was also very disappointed that archers just honed in on damage for its endgame, after cupido I was expecting to get a few status bows to allow them to play that archetype but nope, after cupido that was it, massive shame for me. Actually most of the endgame stopped giving you status and just gave you big numbers, OV spoiling me strikes again. Now i can't wait for you to do the shaman video so they get absolutely destroyed cuz the girls needs a frontline to survive. I hope you will be reasonable when talking about it though lol.
Of course, and you can make some slight survivability tweaks to help them out anyhow. Stacking Vit actually gives shamans far better returns than Int or Mind overall in many ways, but I was about to try and use Armored Core as an example as to that. Like "covering your weaknesses gives you all of these extra options, while that extra 20 odd damage is going to...what exactly?" I'll try and get that one done sooner.
@@CoffeePotato I actually have a very old forum post on the Gamefaqs for LUCT, titled “The Day the Challenge Died” - or some such. It basically was me posting my absolute stunned amazement at how game-changing the Summon-1 (and even moreso) Summon-2 spells were 😅. Your point about them being pretty late / endgame though is a good one to note. It takes a long time and lots of Player-effort to get truly crazy Shaman Power.
It seemed fitting. Charm Bows always remind me of the sudden realization of Chain mind controlling entire maps because those commanders are now technically in friendly sight lines in XCOM.
I have come to love skills like vigorous and eagle eye, they do so much to make viable and useful classes like warriors and archers that most people will overlook as basic classes that become obsolete (And in other games that's what they would be). And in the case of archers you get a whole lot of "this is good, if you set up properly" on top.
I have at least 6 bow units in my army, including a beast tamer and a ninja (as their secondary weapons). In fights, I use 1 archer and up to 3 additional bow units. They serve appetizers. Thanks for the upload.
I'm in the latter part of Ch. 4 now, and while I've never made Archers "obsolete", it's only very recently that I noticed their damage potential (Ch2-3 I mostly used them to inflict Stun and Silence). That's when I started to actually pay attention to the enemies' elements and bring units that are strong against those. Then I noticed that, for example, Arycelle (whom I retained as a Lightning Archer) can do 1000+ damage using a Shortbow+1 with a Tremendous Shot on a Water unit that's been Frightened and Breach (not hard to do). And I'm like, whoa, these guys really scale advantages (and vice versa with disadvantages)! Among other things, learning the game I just found the whole elemental thing too complicated in the beginning. And I was mainly paying attention to it through Magic which doesn't scale nearly as much. And that's just _one_ way Archers scale really well!
I'm in early chapter 4 and made Denim a Archer right away in chapter 1 so looking to increase his damage again because usually just using him and my other archer squad to gang up on a cleric or a magic caster until my terror knight with a claymore or Vouge user inflicts breached on a tank.
Yes, I would have broken my dumb fist against this class trying to apply them with moderate success. But now I'm like Neo. "I know kung fu." Coffee Potato says, "Stop trying to Archer and Archer!"
After putting a lot of time into Reborn, it's hard to avoid the conclusion Archer was overnerfed. Yes, they can still deal damage. Yes, they can pick off the back line. They can pick off Breached units. They can apply Sleep, Charm and some other nice effects. But this stuff is all very situational. -Any unit can kill a Breached enemy. Breaching an enemy is a death sentence for that enemy. If an enemy is Breached then it will die within a couple of actions. -Status effects rely upon having mp for skills or very specific gear you won't have when playing through the game normally. You don't get a cupid bow before Chapter 4. Sleep shot is a great move, but it's only a chance to cause Sleep. -Picking off backliners is reliant upon positioning. Archers are squishy, and they can't fly or teleport. So finding the right placement where they can hit the enemy back line *without* the enemy front line reaching them... Sometimes that simply isn't possible. As well, Archers will get dogpiled by enemy backliners (archers, mages) and midliners (rune fencers, ninjas.) -Other units can do what Archer does better. Fusilier gets more damage most of the time. Mages get more consistent damage on all enemy types + utility magic like AoE stun and poison (and they're faster). Ninja gets way more consistent status effect procs for disabling enemies. Rune Fencer has a lot more defense, healing and access to Boon. Vartan gets Flight for easy positioning + missile spells for more consistent damage on high defense targets, making them an overall better Vulture unit. Griffins are better Vultures too, as they can huck rocks from inaccessible parts of the map or rush in with Dash to hp drain a backline unit. Cockatrice is better at removing turns than Archer, since they can AoE stone massive groups.
I'd still disagree. Other classes need to be within range, have LoS considerations, or can't scale nearly as hard. They can act without MP, with MP, with elements, and even beyond range to exploit weaknesses wherever they appear. No one else can find a weakness, and then exploit nearly every scaling variety at once, from Racial bonuses to Guaranteed Crits to avoiding Parries to Elements. The argument typically follows that they are too lengthy to set up, and yet they remain insanely useful for Speedruns, too. Damage is great, but other times you need a long range finger to throw something out of position. They're specialized, but uniquely good at what they do with practices.
@@CoffeePotato I guess I'd have to bow to your experience there. I've tried to make them work, but especially in chapters 1-3, they just don't keep pace imo.
Still the ai managed to to do surprisingly well on the mission despite running the class that is a bad idea to run a full team on. Yes other classes are easier and more consistent sources of damage but the video does show their strengths mainly as debuff archers as well as their weird ass damage scaling.
@@2265Hello Ranged weapon scaling with the bonuses from Affinity Advantage, Breach, and other modifiers to the Stat Overhead is the exact same as any other weapon type, if not slightly less because ranged weapon scaling with STR+DEX (and by extension their Stat Overhead against most targets) is slightly less than that of most melee weapons. Their main advantage over melee attackers when the same modifiers/bonuses are in play is action economy. They will not deal as much damage as an equally-geared melee attacker, but they can take noticeably faster turns because they don't need to move to hit their target (moving 5 spaces costs ~25 RT for most frontline classes).
Considering they won, and the shaman team got wiped consistently to the point they needed help from other classes, no, I'm not. Thing is, I wanted to have a consistent test map for all classes to show as a baseline, with a set pool of equipment that's easily available. This works for pretty much every class except for archers, who are basically shown at their worst in this example, and still only lose one unit, not half the team. They can do what many others can't, which is why I advocate for them so often. Namely ready access to most targets on the map without fail, taking the caster formula, but reversing it. Casters will burn MP for damage now. Archers do modest damage neutrally, but on weakness, they do comparable numbers with a far more useful trajectory, with options to scale to absolute insanity (see 20k damage with an out of the shop generic trained as a basic soldier at the end there.). While this example largely shows the insane effect of a couple of Charm Bows on AI taking on a map that's preposterously out of their depth, their real strength comes from good player use of their ability to guarantee their particular chosen damage types and debuffs when and where they are needed. They take little in the way of prep, too, which makes them fantastic for a Speedrun. You just hire any random archer nearby, note their elemental strengths, and Debuff what you want dead from the longbows in the back. Simple.
You like challenge runs, right? I need to know about ninjas. What if you started a game and then did the class-specific videos as you move through the game, at first hiring a team of ninja, then berserkers, terror knights, etc.?
Ninjas are coming up soon. I like to do them using the basic layers of available crafting equipment at the most basic stats possible, but at max level, to hopefully show how they can use their individual traits to still hold up in the post game without any particular broken items or any of that required. Ninjas are kind of a special case where they have everything they need for the post game in chapter 3. Envenom, a basic Shortbow+, Steelstance, Concentration, Shadowbind, and their multi-hit moves when they pick up some Crit. They were a melee powerhouse in the last game, and the AI loves to run Double Attack, but Bow/Sword is absolutely their bread and butter this time around.
Doesn't using the elemental finisher strong against your element (like Brimestone Hail on a Ice Archer) nerf the finisher by 10%? In the grand scheme of all the the multiplication Archers can do probably not a big deal, but just wanted to ask Great video as always Lord Potato 🥔
When the user's Affinity is Weak to the Finisher's Element, a multiplier of 0.7 is applied to the user's Total ATK. Total ATK for Ranged Weapon Finishers is the sum of the ATK stats on the user's Weapon, Jewelry, and Class ATK multiplied by x2.5 PLUS the Finisher's ATK Bonus. For example, if the female Ice Affinity Archer in this video (Meredithe) were to use the Flaming Blast (Bow) Finisher, she would be losing (((81+4+8) x 2.5)) + 100)) x 0.3 = 99.6 ATK compared to having a Neutral Affinity. 81 ATK is from her Damasc Bow +1, 4 ATK is from her Ring of Fortune +1, 8 ATK is from her Class ATK (4 Base + 1 per 10 levels), and 100 ATK is from the Finisher's (Flaming Blast's) ATK Bonus.
Your title card game is top notch and I am ashamed that I missed how good they've gotten because when I see a CoffeePotato video, I click it before my brain registers anything else. Great video as always =] One reason, I think, that we end up with so many amazing crossbows is that enemy archers in PotD and San Bronsa and even Pharompa spawn in using relics. I can't think of any other relic you can buy off the street for $1.50 other than dragon scale shields.
They were just misunderstood, they're working. The armor profile thing is an unknown, but we'll likely know for sure once the apparently confirmed 1.05 lands.
Only Gryphons, Cockatrices, Cyclopses, and Octopi (along with their Zombie and non-playable versions) count as Beasts for the sake of Racial Damage Bonuses and Racial Resistances. Lamia and Lizardmen (along with their Zombie and non-playable versions) count as Reptiles.
They go insane once they find a way past armor, it's wonderful. Then you get those cases where you just dropped 8000 damage, but do 1 to that other guy 🤣
I only bring beefy units to battle (which also hit harder), so I never have to worry about ranged enemies doing massive harm. Why would anybody bring a glass cannon (wizard/archer), when you can bring a sturdy cannon that does about the same damage and won't break after 2-3 hits? (dragons/gryphons). Like most RPGs, this game just has a lot of balance issues and oversights.
Because that strategy only holds up for part of the game. Archers have more range, more racial damage spikes, and better debuff access. There's many reasons to go for it.
@@OneCreator87 You're right about melee units requiring less care, but archers/mages have many advantages. I'm sure there were times when only half of your melee units were able to join the fight because of narrow terrain or rampart aura. On the other hand, Archers/Mages are able to find something to do in most situations. They're also able to pull off some dirty tactics through debuffs, like charming an enemy melee unit that's standing near their archers/mage group to wreak havoc. If an enemy Berserker with berserk activated is about to come charging in, just charm that guy and watch him turn around and annihilate his own team. If an enemy is about to beat you to picking up a buff card, you can put him to sleep, pick up the card and crush him with a powered up attack. I think archers/mages can manipulate the situation so hard sometimes that it feels like it should be illegal, and it's very satisfying when pulled off.
They are a weird class they required a good amount of game knowledge to make them good. My plan don’t depend on them as damage dealers unless you plan on making it more of a part of your team comp plan. For in general use debuff archers are best
