Kohdok Talks about Disney Lorcana for a bit... 

wow didn't know that, ufs being one of my favorite game system of all time, I will wait and see for lorcana.

@@jmlchaosdragon i don't really play ufs, but i did get the my hero academia starter. It's a neet system, seems good

@@j453 ufs and mha are pretty much the same. Mha only remove a couple of keyword ability and the ability to play different version of the same character, but except that the two game play the same. Mha ccg was more of a soft reboot to help new player get in the game.

When i tried out digimon it felt a lot like duel masters from my experience amd now that explains it.

The current digimon? Or the other 2 that failed within a year of launch? Also, never heard of universal fighting system. So neither of those adds any optimism to my opinion of how lorcana is gonna go.

Reminds me of a certain other new TCG…

im getting artifact vibes.

@@nmr7203 MetaZoo

The Overwatch strategy!

where is my yugioh ripoff I want a new card game that has unga bunga massive combos, foodgates, and hand traps

@@TheRedScizor Ah yes foodgates, those damn cards that prevents me from eating.

@@TheRedScizor Working on it, but it will have color/Class restrictions lol

I really don’t wanna Disney’s lorcana to kill magic and other TCG’s

@@nehuenmutiozabal6339 cringe

Yup, I imagine that this card game will fail for the exact same reasons the Disney Infinity figurine video game did. The actual game mechanics will be mediocre and shallow, the price will be too high for the average consumer, they'll flood the market with product to combat scalpers which will tank secondhand value, and then they'll impatiently cancel the product line after a few years because it's not meeting unrealistic sales projections despite still being profitable.

what did you not like about the robin hood card?

@@McCrispyBread here's how I see it so far, considering that we don't have the official rules yet. It looks like the most expensive cards, like Maleficent will generally cost 9 ink. Robin Hood is 6. Not too high but pretty high considering Tailor Mickey is 8. Hood's first ability is okay but relies on the opponent to have more cards than you and even then you only draw one card. His second ability sounds kind of weak and doesn't give him protection on the opponents turn. This card just feels like it'll work for the early sets but then be powercrept by the second set. Something with Hood's abilities will come along but be cheaper.

How...is that disappointing?

@@josevelajr means that the game is another magic clone with no unique universal mechanics

The diamond icons is the mechanically unique design decision that completely separates it from how magic is played

@@Jobri_TCG duel masters lol

That's literally just Key Forge.

@@GeneralNickles I was thinking Redemption.

In both FF and MH, devs and distribution really dropped the ball. MH organized play was an absolute mess. They’re still trying, sure. But yeah I don’t see much life left myself. Shame too, it’s a really cool system.

@@VanillaSoup I'm pulling for them. They literally founded their company to make UFS because the people who were making it got out of the business, and they've built a lot of goodwill on Kickstarter (setting aside the HORRIBLE design of the Mega Man board game).

Any info or link about your TCG? Always interested in seeing what folks are working on--some good stuff out there!

I suspect they're involved because they did Villainous, so they've already proven to Disney that they can make a decently successful Disney brand card game.

If they go the LCG route, that might actually play to their favor, but I suspect Disney does actually want some of that high priced resale market to make the cards feel more like collector's items, so I can't see that happening.

This whole thing just feels like one giant cash grab by everyone involved. Instead of hiring a legion of well known game designers, they hired the guy most famous for having designed a multitude of failed card games. And instead of designing a game that plays into the Disney angle, the guy just took one of his many failed projects and slapped a Disney paint job on it. And it seems to me that Disney just doesn't care about how well the game actually does. If they did, then the D23 cards wouldn't have been so limited. D23 is attended by tens of thousands of people. They could've printed and sold 5,000+ of those collector's sets and it wouldn't have changed the outcome. They'd have still sold out, and still be scalped for outrageous mark ups. Honestly, I think kohdok is right about his 2nd guess. It's going to be exclusively sold at Disney parks, and I don't think it'll just end up that way. I think it'll be like that from the start. Disney loves selling meaningless collectables that are just neat enough to make you want them. Have you seen the metal keys they sell exclusively at the parks? They ripped that straight from kingdom hearts and threw every generic design they could think of on them and called it "collectable", and people just eat it up because they're park exclusives. Organized competitive play never crossed anyone's mind when designing this game. Any tournaments will have to be fan organized, and Disney will probably DMCA them for it.

every single game has "draw a card" effect lmao Wizards of the coast is famous for litigation (tap was a trademark for a while, Magic ruler became spell ruler etc.) if they could have sued someone for using "draw a card" it wouldn't be in so many games. Tierno and ancestral recall are the same exact card, pot of greed is almost identical

@@joplin4434 Good news! You can see in the video that Lorcana uses "draw a card" for draw a card and Kohdok was mistaken.

@@tsilver33 It also uses "challenge" instead of "attack", and "chosen" instead of "target". I won't even mention the stupidity of Mickey and Robin Hood having the same keyword with different reminder text.

@@symmetrybokte They have different reminder text because the normal reminder text doesn't function on Robin Hood. "Only characters with Evasive may challenge this character." will *never* apply to Robin Hood, as his ability only activates during your own turn. So characters without evasive will be able to attack him. The actual keyword has the same rules either way. And Challenge may well make more sense than attack. Not everything in disney is focused on killing each other. "Remmy attacks Elsa" doesn't make much sense, it sounds like the ratmans gonna come at her with a steel chair. But 'challenge' implies that Remmy out-maneuvers or otherwise tricks Elsa to gain the upper hand, I could buy that. As for chosen, it's less jargony than target. It's easier to grok for anyone who isn't already knee-deep in TCGs.

@@symmetrybokte Honestly, the Robin Hood example kinda shows that the designers actually seem to have put a lot of thought into the game and how players will learn it. They didn't just dump the standard reminder text onto Robin Hood and call it a day, they took the time to write him a specific version of that reminder text to better illustrate how it works to a new player. "Only characters with evasive may challenge this character." A new player may read that and think "Why on Earth would I care about that? It's my turn, my opponent can't challenge me." But Robin Hood spells out why it's useful instead, it lets him challenge characters with evasive.

It could be that some cards are able to interact only with one of those subtypes of cards. Let's hope for the best.

Highly unlikely. Games that do that put special attention to those keywords, generally in a seperate part of the card entirely. (See, SW Destiny) Instead, its just randomly sandwhiched in with the rest of the mechanicless keywords for other cards to check for later. Until we hear otherwise its a pretty good bet thats not gonna be a requirement, Id genuinely be shocked if it were.

Android Netrunner did pretty ok with a similar mechanic(~6 year run), but that's more an exception than anything.

@@hecksnek6158 6 years, and arguably still counting! Such a fan favorite its got a huge community that still produce new sets and run organized play events.

@@hecksnek6158 Android Netrunner was also FFG's flagship LCG, so you knew exactly what cards you were getting in each pack, and players needed both Runner and Corp decks for tournaments.

the problem for me is that each game is limited to five colors, as if making 7-8 fractions was a huge challenge

Except that YGO sucks because it was never designed to be played, it was designed to be written about.

@@Iceykitsune Nah ygo is the best tcg.

How does one have set rotation from the start of a game...? 🤨

@@tsilver33 do they usually tell you upfront or its a last minute decision after you sink so much money into it that tell you the game has set rotation?

@@EleggGaming I genuinely cannot recall a tcg that said upfront itd have rotation. Im not saying thats a good practice, but I cant think of any.

@@tsilver33 ah I see, I've seen quite few examples that they implement set rotation after a minor inconvenience that can solve by a banlist/errata/rule change.

The unmixable atributes part has been disproven so that's 5$

My main game is dragonball super and your resource system is similar to duel masters where your cards ypu play double as your energy that you charge once per turn before your main phase. And some mechanics are a bit similar to duel masters like blockers but beyond that it feels like a hybrid of many games. The leader mechanic is much like the commanders of edh and you have a combo system similar to vangaurd.

Have a game that doesn't revolve around reducing life points. Or that doesn't revolve around monsters fighting. Or uses attributes other than Red/Blue/Green/Black/White/Gray. I mean, we've seen games do DARING things like have the combat involve no monster cards at all, or involve gathering victory points, or use the colors to distinguish card type rather than attribute.

digimon has shared resource system, wixoss has single usage resource system, pokemon has attachable resource system, flesh and blood has it's own unique system, there is so many ways you can do resources

Do we know enough to know what sins is committing? We don't really know any of the rules. We do know that the cards are standard size, and with Disney being a entertainment megacorp, it's got a deep well of source material to pick from.

@@Stinkoman87 true i guess its not fair to judge till it comes out

We can draw a lot from what we have seen. Combat is a given, based on the "Elusive" keyword reminder text specifically mentions it. We can tell the first stat is attack, the second is defense, based on Hook's effect. Tapping cards ("Exert" as the game calls it) is used for actions and likely attacking as well. Based on the sliding scale of powers, the top left symbol is some sort of cost or threshold (But probably a cost). So you use a resource to play characters of different colors that fight each other in battle by tapping to exert them, kinda like another game I've heard of... The only mystery is the diamonds on the right side. I can only speculate on those: Resources? Point loss indicators? Cost offsetters?

@@Kohdok we can speculate on what we've seen, we can't say anything with any degree of fact until we have the ruleset in hand.

@@Kohdok I came to about the same conclusions regarding what we have, but the mechanics for me feel loose enough for differentiation from what's come before, and we're still missing other types of cards including the resource system (please not "lands" or discarding cards). I'm still hopeful that it won't just be a carbon copy of other games, though I'm also operating under the assumption that Disney/Ravensburger would have researched enough to know if a designer was porting over old work, but that's me being optimistic. I've actually thought the Diamonds were victory points, where you have to start a turn with a certain number of Diamonds on the board to win, sort of like 'Check' in Chess.

Also thanks for the reply, I appreciate your vids!

@@Kohdok Ah yes, Digimon 2020 TCG plays exactly like Magic: the Gathering because they both have play costs.

what about Zetta Flare Donald?

And games that battle theirselves...

Probably not. Keep in mind a lot of interest in a game's new sets involves what players can incorporate into what they already have.

@@Kohdok Okay thanks for the help

I think metazoo might be sticky there.

Agreed. I have a binder of gorgeous cards, and I love this art style.

I cant find it

you mean elestrals?

I made a whole video about it.

There's Yugioh...

Yeah, youre misremembering. Theyve definitely mentioned making the games target audience families 'without' sacrificing depth. Theyve said they fully intend to support organized play and that theyve put extra effort into designing sets with unexpected combinations that they suspect won't be found immediately. Basically sounds like they want it to work like pokemon. Simple enough you could teach a child. Deep enough to dig into.

Wtf is Android netrunner?

@@bepisthescienceman4202 An asymmetrical card game where each player is essentially playing a different game while preventing the other from completing their goals. One player is the Corporation, trying to fund and complete their agendas, the other is the Runner, attempting to steal those same agendas. The winner is whoever can achieve 7 points worth of agendas.

@@silentprotagonist4436 I honestly don't think it should be as popular as the big 3 cause I never heard or seen anything of it

The issue isn't that another card game can't exist, but that it's just more of the same. I didn't notice the Kaijudo similarities but just putting on top some MTG like statlines won't be enough to separate the game from the pack. The games you mentioned are very different and are doing well for it.

@@grimjack9139 in my opinion we will see if another clone can exist with how popular one piece will be because that will be a mostly textbook clone of magic/duel master. Also we should wait and see, plenty of great magic clone came and last a long time as long as the game bring new interesting mechanic of feel different in some way.

@@grimjack9139 Pokémon is not *that* different from MTG. A lot of the games DNA is still there from when Wizards designed the game. If there are some similarities, I personally don’t see a problem. And Vanguard has a lot of Similarities to Pokémon as well. And Dragon Ball shares a bunch of Mechanics with FaB… the list goes on. I mean I’m not about to fall on the sword for the mouse, I’m just personally hyped on it, and hope the game does well! 😁

@@VanillaSoup what. Pokemon is incredibly different from mtg. Unless you are boiling them both down to "you have creature that attack" and nothing else.

Issue #1 I see is Disney as a business doesn’t do “just exist”. It must either succeed tremendously (on the levels of Magic, YGO or PTCG) or it’ll be canned into the ground.

Over here in the US and since its launch the game has consistently held events in even game stores that only ran nothing other than magic and pokemon. Its deffinitely not a clone of duel masters, nor does it really have anything to do with duel masters. I dont play the game but knowing how it works its deffinitely its own thing. Win con is entirely different, its based around generating "lore counters" through various means and shields arent a thing. The resource system is also based around discarding cards from your hand to generate "ink" equal to the cost of the card discarded rather than tapping things.

@@CatManThree I'm pretty sure the resource system is a simplified version of Duel Masters. I watched a Lorcana tutorial a while back and to make a resource they place any card from their hand face-down and it effectively becomes a land. The reason Duel Masters was more complicated was because the cards had different resource values and once placed as a 'land', it tapped for it's particular value whereas the Lorcana 'lands' always tap for 1. But the lore counter win condition is a big change on typical win conditions. I believe they did it to make the game more child friendly as there's no dying in the game, no violence. Disney probably didn't want it to be understood that their characters were killing each other in the game. But every feature of this new win condition can be mapped to Magic life. Lorcana counts up to 20 lore counters whereas Magic counts down from 20 life. Lorcana could just as easily have made it so that both players start at 20 lore counters and you're trying to deplete your opponents lore with attacks. The direction you go to win is more or less a superficial change when the mechanic used to get there is identical in both games. To get lore counters in Lorcana, your characters have to go on quests which means tapping them and declaring you're intent quest. It's basically declaring an attack that can't be blocked. Then your opponent has the opportunity on their turn to 'challenge' your tapped characters with theirs meaning you compare stats in combat and something gets destroyed like most other TCGs. So there are major differences compared to Magic combat because blocking doesn't exist in Lorcana but I would say the Lorcana combat system is most identical to Digimon and One Piece as both of those games have no blocking but do have the 'challenge' mechanic which they call attacking. Those games give you the option to either go face or attack tapped Digimon/characters. So I guess my point is that what seems novel about Lorcana is actually the same mechanics from other games but re-worked to seem more child friendly and much of the mechanics are more simple versions of what was taken from the other games. But I could concede the Duel Masters point because now that I think about it, Lorcana is the most like One Piece compared to any other game. They both have simplified basic land resources and an identical combat system but then Lorcana takes Magic's 20 life and Duel Master's method of placing the resources.

@@ilyafoskin The flavor behind how the game works is centered around players creating their own disneys stories and completing them through lore counter generation. I dont think it has much to do with replacing life given the game appears to be built around it, with numerous card effects which play around with lore counters to use instead of just combat. Lore counters are a resource you generate and win with. Double checking, youre right about the resource system being just the one from duel masters. Tbf though the duel master's mana system is pretty effective and I dont think its particularly bad that other card games borrow it.

Of course it was a bad take, this channel only has shitty takes

@@Gwinnmusic I think he has great takes usually. Sometimes he's wrong but even I thought as he did about Lorcana back then. With the context of the last year I was just being objective in my comment

I doubt that

Actually, they aged like wine if ebay's unchanged prices are any indication.

@@Kohdok The cards in these sets will be printed in the base set at normal quantities, just without the D23 logo and foil treatment.

​@@Kohdok ya you can try to spin it however. But it is just promos of cards that are available in base starter decks.

I posted the article where they interviewed the devs who said that they were changing the vocabulary to stand out.

Legend of the Five Rings was kind of like that.

the game system seems faiirly simple and indeed copied from mtg. Elsa is a straight up ripoff of a magic card, evasion is just flying, the power and toughness with a mana cost to cast, tapping. The issue is that the main sets will probably be scalped, not these extremely expensive sets that have already been scalped. If anything it's like the much maligned secret lairs only without the benefit of knowing the rest of the cards lol

@@joplin4434 until we know the mechanics, that's all speculation. We think Elsa will be the same, but we don't even know the first thing about the rules.

@@GrievelornTCG it is the same effect lmao for 3 mana tap a creature that doesn't untap the next turn. Same power and toughness too lmao We know the mechanic of evasion and exert, they were printed as reminder text and they are flying and tap, respectively.

@@GrievelornTCG have you read the card? Reading the card explains the card

@@joplin4434 Sure, but reading the card doesn't give us the context of the entire rule set. On the surface they look they same, but until we know the rules everything is speculation. And my point isn't even that it doesn't seem the same. It's that we are just assuming the entire rule set because of the people who worked on it and 7 cards