The only thing this experiment proves is confirmation bias can affect the experiment. Right now your confirmation bias is allowing you to believe that discrimination doesnt exist when it does. Why are we trying to tell people to give people the benefit of the doubt when its not warranted.
So if he was lying, and this study never actually happened but you want to believe it does because "woke" people are bad or something, would that not mean you are actually demonstrating confirmation bias by buying into the narrative that "wokeism" is bad BECAUSE this study is 100% false but you believe it because it's what you look for in the left's behavior?
But if people weren't actually being discriminated against in the first place those people would not be looking for discrimination. Think about the fact that white people under the same circumstances don't feel that way. It's because they do not generally face discrimination so it's not something to look for. Here is an example. I live in Canada and in more than 30 years of driving I have been stopped by the cops a total of THREE times all for speeding. I was speeding. Last year I decided to visited my sister in Florida and between Ontario and Florida. I was stopped a total of 18 times. I ha e 360 cameras on my car which records sound inside and out. I have external speakers so I don't need roll my windows down but it seems to me that a black man driving a Maserati is a magnet for American ops. So now every time I cross the border and I see a cop I expect him to stop me and when he does I immediately think it's racially motivated. If a Canadian cop stops me I would never think that no matter his race. Do this little experiment as interesting as it may be is really saying absolutely nothing about the realities of human interactions.
@@jussayinmipeece1069 "But if people weren't actually being discriminated against in the first place those people would not be looking for discrimination. " Have you met a Radical Evangelical Christian?
So if you watched your grandparents and your parents get beat up by cops dog's turned loose on thim and even sometimes children. Redlining exc. You are not a victim? Well you clearly don't have a good concept of time. 19th century is not gone just in ower rear view meror. Healing takes time isn't that ironic?
Except that this man is describing the results incorrectly. The experiment PREDICTED complaints of bias but found NONE. Read for yourself. Kleck and Strenta, 1985, for reference
@@ramonmcgee2240 You are referring to the wrong experiment. This one is "Perceptions of the Impact of Negatively Valued Physical Characteristics on Social Interaction" by Kleck and Strenta (1980)
@@davidbroadfoot1864 Roger that. I read the study you referenced (the full report.) The interesting thing about the juxtaposition of the Kleck study and the speaker's point is that the "disfigurement" was apparent to the test subjects and then surreptitiously removed. In the context of race, it can hardly be denied that physical attributes associated with minorities has not been social and historical laced with demeaning and degrading descriptors. In that sense it cannot be said that the "disfigurement" is only the minds of minorities. In the Kleck test, there was no disfigurement to be viewed by the testors. That is not the case socially and historically for majority members looking at minorities.
This is so true, I worked in dermatology for years, women would come in with complaints of horrible disfigurement on their faces. When asked where they would ask for a mirror to point out where the problem was. Our mirrors were normal and 2x magnification. They would then demand a 10x magnification mirror so they could find the spot that "everyone was staring at" I always wanted to know who all these people were carrying 10x magnifiers to star at people were.
@@JGDD7190 look it up. there are 2 to 3 minute videos on yt summing it up. pretty interesting. basically it's about people being more and more hyperfixated and paranoid avout things. best example: especially here in the western world we're living in literally one of the safest periods humanity EVER lived in. and yet people (especially women) over the last 2 decades startes to feel as unsafe as they did the last time over 100 years ago, because they hyperfocus on increasingly trivial things and make them bigger than they actually are.
Just looked up the study. This is a fantastic example of bias. If you think of yourself as a victim, you'll find that you see yourself being victimized virtually everywhere you go.
Were the interviewers in on the study? Were they genuine interviews? It could be that the interviewers were instructed to make loaded statements or ask loaded questions to fit in with the object of the study.
@Royston Richards Then the women would not be complaining about perceived slights; there would have been actual slights. As the study was to see if people felt they were being victimised when they were not, they would have to be very careful not to ask questions or in any way give the impression that they were victimising the women. The interviewers would have to be impartial, most likely reading from a script, so each woman would have the same experience. The amount of "adlibbing" would be zero, I suspect. Any deviation from the script between interviews would invalidate the whole experiment.
I just looked for it and couldn't find that study. Would you give the reference for it please. There are multiple studies showing discrimination against men and women with facial disfigurement. People with facial disfigurement feel mortified. The women who thought they had fake scars could not possibly all acted as "their normal selves" as they didn't feel normal and had a rational belief they were liable to be treated differently.
And the reverse is true too: if you constantly believe the ideology of victimhood is behind typical claims of discrimination, you can ignore discrimination which ought to be staring you in the face. The door swings both ways. But pretending it doesn’t is a good excuse not to have to think about prejudice or privilege, ever.
Very true. The worst part is, people are very aware of it. There are people who will use the ideology of Victimhood to dismiss any disagreements about how people are treated, but there are also people who will falsify oppression because they know it will be taken seriously and use it as a tool for personal gain rather than getting someone help they need. Both of these types of people make the other side point and go "look, see! We were right! You all are really oppressors/professional victims!" It's made a rather simple issue way more complicated than it ever should have been and it frankly pisses me off.
@@umbrellabirb3206 Growing up undiagnosed autistic and realising one day that “not everyone gets bullied for seemingly no reason” was really depressing
Or the lack of empathy towards other people who suffer that leads to the refusal of accountability for the well-being of others that leads to the cruelty we now see in our society.
It’s definitely not a status marker, people just think it is and the left begrudgingly now goes along with it since they championed it for so long. But I can’t name anyone who looks up to someone with a victim complex.
Cruelty that we now see in our society? I would firmly believe that we have never lived in a less cruel society, think about it? To say otherwise is to completely make us into 'victims'.
This is true. It's part of what makes discrimination so insidious. The fact that one might internalize their oppression does not necessarily mean that they are not being oppressed. This means that those from marginalized communities have to navigate both their own expectation of oppression as well as actual oppression. It is not, however, a reason to ignore the reality of discrimination in our society. It is rather yet another reason to call it out and take responsibility for it. Just imagine how the expectations of the participants in the study would have changed if they grew up in a culture that did not discriminate against people with scars. So you see, it is the discrimination that is the problem, not calling it out. Ignoring it makes it worse
@whocriesforbidennotme641 Indeed. I'm not sure in what way you disagree with what I said. It adds another layer to the suffering caused by discrimination. Therefore, you can be understanding and cut people a little slack when they are overly sensitive. And, you can do your best to be aware of the fact that sometimes we can act in discriminatory ways without consciously intending to do so
@@bobbyhempel1513 depends on the scarring. Small ones, probably not. But huge gashes, far more likely. Though it does depend on the job. If your face is covered in scars, you wont easily get a job dealing with people.
@@handsomelarsandhisfabulousjars i dont think scars are seen as bad in general? it works for this experiment, because its only about the perception, but in reallife with people that have scars i dont think its generally seen as negative
@@pichelen This answer is both for you and the other comment. You are confusing a GROUP with EVERYONE. Nazis were a group, not EVERYONE. GROUPS tend to follow the same ideology, so a GROUP will act (wait for it) AS A GROUP. If the whole Planet Earth would've hated and acted as the Nazis against the Jews, then your statement would've been right. But at least 90% of the world condemned the Nazis.
@@pichelen Everyone wasn't against them. Not even the military let alone every citizen. All of that is from the SS officers, many of whom were executed in trial.
This reminds me of my own struggles with social anxiety disorder. I tend to assume the worst, and misinterpret neutral things as negative. I have essentially been trained from a young age to be socially anxious. It comes from a place of self hatred. Of seeing yourself as less than other people. Just like the scar they believed was on their face for all to see. My 'scar' is internal, but I feel that others can't help but see it because it's so clear to me.
@@Gutzzzzz Try to notice when I'm thinking in counterproductive ways and tell myself that it's unrealistic thinking. I try to do things that 'feel' wrong and dangerous, because what it 'feels' like to me is irrelevant. Things that 'feel' wrong are probably just fine. It's a constant battle to behave in a manner that is counterintuitive to the way I've been trained to behave. The way reality is presented to me is twisted by my perception. I can assume I'm wrong in many cases. It feels awful, but it's not
I used to do air conditioning and one day I was given a helper. It was a young girl that had a little bit of experience because her dad owned an ac business and yes, she knew how to do her job. She got paid the same as me but did about half the work I did because she wasn't strong enough to lift up the air conditioners or the condensers but she could crawl through the attics better than I could. I got paid for my strength, she got paid for her size.
Sounds like you’re all for what those video is speaking against. You’re acting like you’ve been victimized because a woman wasn’t as strong as you. She probably did all the other work, poor, oppressed white guy.
@@Callofthevoid3 wow...talk about completely missing the point. You are a prime example of what's wrong with this world. You see someone giving praise to another person, but because of your preconceived ideas, all you can see is negativity. How sad for you.
I’ve know people with disabilities that were stay at home and draw a check bad and had difficult jobs that were very demanding but acted like it no big deal. That’s true wealth. I remember one lady that would get up from her desk, got on crutches and come to the counter to wait on me. She always had a smile and treated me like I was the only customer she had all day. She doesn’t even know how that affected me even today. ❤
I get what you’re trying to say here, but as a multi disabled person who works in advocacy, I’m absolutely begging you to hear me out when I say that *this is damaging*. That’s not playing victim-that’s just a fact. Disabled people are constantly praised for “not letting their disabilities define them” but do you know what that results in?? Burnout. Increased chronic pain. Depression. Anxiety. Ostracism. Poor hygiene and diet. Terrible sleep. More medications… The only time we seem to be appreciated is when we have something “valuable” to offer because if we don’t, then we’re considered deadweights to society.
Look it up. This "experiment" never happened. It was literally made up. Don't you wonder why it's so vague, no clips, no actual testimony? Because it isn't real THIS GUY JUST MADE SOMETHING UP TO GET ANGRY ABOUT
Any details on the study? Like effect size, sample size, what journal it was published in, or if there was a control. Those are all very important for interpreting the results of just about any study.
Exactly. I'd also like to see if they did the exact same experiment with a group of men. Or if there was a control group setting for comparison (since he mentions 'increased', but compared to what?).
@@mattdombrowski8435 Yes. I am also familiar with the reality that "peer review" is just as much of a political tool as anything else in current year. There was a fake study done to "prove" that men were the cause of literally every single problem in society. Everything in it was literally made up. It was peer reviewed and published based exclusively by its title and conclusion.
Since nobody here wanted to link to it, the study is called Perceptions of the Impact of Negatively Valued Characteristics on Social Interaction, it was published November 1980. It actually consisted of four studies. Broadly speaking, the participants who had been primed to believe they had a visible disfigurement (not all were given the scar, some were told that the interviewer was told they some non-visible deviancy such as allergies) were more likely to focus on gaze behavior in social situations. Importantly, the authors went on to point out in their conclusion that this modification in behavior by the test subjects for an experiment that involved temporarily interacting with one person while believing to be showing a physical impairment may not be consistent with the behavior patterns of individuals who live with physical disfigurement full time. Quote from the conclusion to the study: "The leap from these results, therefore, to the conclusion that they support Wright's (1960) assertion that physically handicapped persons are often prone to articulate their social reality entirely in terms of their handicap, even when the objective facts do not support such a construction, is tenuous at best." In short, this study really doesn't support the conclusion implied in this short. At best, it opens the door to further studies to determine if this is a valid conclusion or not. www.researchgate.net/publication/232481827_Perceptions_of_the_impact_of_negatively_valued_characteristics_on_social_interaction
Been honestly trying to articulate something along these lines the study did seem to focus nocebo induced self conciousness in someone whi hadnt previously had to deal with it rather than the framing of someone who does At least thats what i got from the shorts summary
I found an extension on this study from 1998. 'The effects of having a facial scar on state self-esteem and face-to-face social interactions' "targets were rated as more tense in the scar believe condition than in the no scar condition. There was, however, no support for a self-fulfilling prophecy theory"
But most of the people who watch this short will take it at face value and apply it by and large to social inequalities and assert that this proves that social inequality does not exist, specifically racism and sexism…
I like the part where he gave a link to the actual experiment or literally any information to allow people to find it and read about the methodology themselves, and then explained what they did for the control groups and what they reported. Such transparent reporting and not at all being used to push political beliefs to an audience who won't ask questions. Like, people are treating this as established fact despite there not being any info provided that indicates the study is real(like what group carried it out, what they named the study, when it was done... literally anything that would help someone seek out the information) let alone that it was properly carried out(yeah, methodology is important as how the researchers carry out an experiment will impact the results. And, based on the lack of transparency and lack of a control group, this study seems tailor made to generate this result). But it confirms what people already believe, so why question it.
The men had a heightened sense of confidence. Visual proof of past hardship gives credit to the wisdom and advice you share. It's the opposite of narcissism.
Imagine one woman deviates from the experiment and goes, “ You wanna know how I got these scars ?” The interviewer sat there like , ” I’m sorry , what ? “
@@jaglinuxmint "And the result of the experiment is that we now have like 130 female Jokers running around causing havoc... But it's okay, we're gonna do another experiment where we tell a bunch of trust fund babies their parents were shot leaving the movies."
The study is called" Perceptions of the impact of negatively valued physical characteristics on social interaction" by Kleck and Strena (1980) . Its important to note that theres no interview, no use of discrimination language or asked how they were discriminated, and there was more than just scarring, such as epilepsy. They were asked how they felt the interaction with the person they talked to went and what they were thinking at the time, it was more the internal conflict more than the actual subject of discussion, ie they felt stressed and nervous about the scarring and felt self conscious. Interesting study, shame its misrepresented to try and shut down the "woke crowd".
I went into a job interview with a severely swollen face after having surgery. I went in and told the interview team that if they didn't make fun of my face I would hold it against them. We had a good interview, they didn't make fun of my face. I got the offer before I made it home. What I did is remove the tension around my appearance. I let them know that my appearance wasn't going to affect me.
As someone with actual facial deformities, I can confirm you get treated differently. Not in a good way. You'd think only children who don't know any better will point, snicker, and say something about you, NOPE adults do it too. It's just sad when adults do it because they _should_ know better.
Can I ask you question..Don't you find it easier if kids ask you instead of just staring. I know some people isn't always in the mood to answer but I find when younger kids asked and they get their answers they move on and the staring stops whereas adults are worse then kids. They ignorantly stare and will do it till you randomly ask what's up
As an artist, I've always wanted to ask about deformities, especially the facial ones, as I find them very cool and interesting, but I always ignore it and just interact normally cuz I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, and i especially dont want to direct bystander's attention to it. Maybe the only people who don't make fun are the people most interested, haha.
@@6ColourMeRainbow9 I have lots of facial scarring and a skin condition. I think its difficult topic cuz I rlly don't mind if people ask about it, but I now its a personal preference. its always about time and place I guess. if u hardly know someone probs none of ur business to ask or bringing it up if ur in a big group. I mostly find myself bringing it up when I know someone reasonably well. but asking kindly is always welcome personally as I know the people that ask are interested and curious and not people who would silently judge. :)
But you’re missing the point. No one is arguing that people with deformities are not treated differently. It is about how people can talk themselves into being treated badly because of a deformity that doesn’t even exist! Very clever study.
@Odi Etamo they don't talk themselves into being treated differently. The women in this study perceived discrimination and comments based on facial scarring, while there were none as there were no scars.
All that proves is that confirmation bias is a thing and if you tell people they're in a study of discrimination they're going to be actively looking for signs of discrimination.
isn't that the exact point he made? If you tell people they are always facing discrimination, they are going to be looking for signs of discrimination. This effect works both ways, in that telling someone they are a victim causes them to actively look for signs, but also being on the receiving end of even a small amount of discrimination can also create this effect.
Ok, well, people get discriminated against all the time. It is happening, and it's causing certain people who are under certain circumstances to fail. There really isn't anything we really can do to completely stop it either.
No, the point this short seems to be getting across is that the discrimination people face is actually made up; however, the study basically conditioned the women to look for possible discrimination, making it a biased and worthless study if you are attempting to prove said point.
@@miclowgunman1987 I think the point of the comment is that this will happen to any study even if it's not about discrimination. this doesn't say much about how we think discrimination is happening when it's not. it just shows if we look for something specific our brains will make connections even if there is none ex: if you start the day off thinking it's bad you will probably only notice the bad stuff that happens
@@dragynjumpcinema7271You've missed the point that apart from this experiment, there are oppressed and discriminated people. Are we to ignore them and tell them it's all in their head?
@@hinckgify Lol the entire point of this video was to show that people search for oppression when there is none, which is a major issue in western culture currently. Obviously in the event the oppression was real we shouldn't ignore it, but I assure you that is not an issue modern countries struggle with. We are so far in the opposite direction of that that it's not as urgent to worry about.
As a woman with actual scars on my face due to a car accident when I was a child, I can say that some and I do mean some people do discriminate. Most look more for what you can do for them than what you look like.
Yeah, but as the experiment suggests, I believe you should not think that THAT'S the default of what people think about you. Those 'mean' people were some special cases/the anomaly/the unsual. There are many of them, but they're not the default. It's healthier to think this way.
Sure, not everyone is a perfect angel and there will be bad apples out there but I think we should never try to assume bigotry as the first thing to come to mind whenever something like this happens. For every person who would descriminate against your scars there is another person who won't and if you always assume bigotry then that's a very unfair generalization.
"If you think everyone around you is judging you, then you might be the one judging them by assuming the worst of their character." - from a website I visited
My wife does that to me from time to time. I bought a loaf of bread a few weeks ago to make sandwiches for lunch at work that week. She fussed at me and called me a snob because i bought a loaf of bread different from her loaf of bread. I told her i bought it to make sandwiches to take to work. A week and a half later i told her she owed me an apology because i had eaten the entire loaf of bread. She smiled and didn't say anything. Good thing she's not like this all the time i would have divorced her 20 years ago
The study is "Perceptions of the impact of negatively valued physical characteristics on social interaction.", by Robert Kleck and Angelo Strenta. *Edited with the correct study after someone pointed it out.
i feel like this only works if there also was a group that actually kept the scars, so that we can compare it to something. also self perception is a different thing, i wanna see results of which group was more likely to get hired. edit: this blew up and i am obviously not gonna read everything. just adding that i didn't mean to criticize the study. i understand the study itself is about perception, but in the context it is used for in the video makes it sound like people who say they face discrimination only have it all in their head.
This, its no good claiming discrimination is in our heads without gathering the data on the percentage of people with actual disfigurements that got hired vs those without. Yes sometimes we victimise ourselves, but this video seems to be saying that discrimination doesn't actually happen when it most certainly does
Sure, but it sounds like the experiment was only about how the scars changes their self-perception, not about how it actually changes their chances of getting hired. Point being that if you are primed to think you will be discriminated against, you probably will think your being discriminated against.
@@TheRedfire555 nope it’s just the part of the experiment he described. All experiments have control groups. So there has to be at least two other groups. One group who knows they have no scares and another who knows they have scares. Also was this experiment just in women or is he omitting the male arm. He doesn’t even give the name of the study or anything.
@@TheRedfire555 I totally get that, I just feel that they could have done more to point out that some discrimination is real, and we shouldn't go around thinking all discrimination is in our heads because sometimes it is real and if we think its just in the persons head we essentially ignore the victim, which I think is how a lot of people end up committing suicide, they feel unseen
He is right, on a systematic level its imporant to not play the victim. HOWEVER, systemically its important to recognize that massive unjust inequalities still exist regardless of attitude.
honestly this feels more like it proves a person, who has never been discriminated against, thinks they know what discrimination is like. Best case scenario it proves that it's difficult to tell when someone is discriminating against you, nothing to do with the actual fact that discrimination exists
Both can be true at the same time. But people who are convinced that they are being discriminated against or oppressed will often view any slight inconvenience as evidence of that discrimination or oppression instead of viewing those things as natural parts of life that happen to everyone. This often leads to distrust and villainizing of innocent people, in effect meaning that those who feel like they're being discriminated against often turn around and discriminate against innocent people themselves. This then provides more fuel for anyone who's looking for arguments to discriminate against those people in the first place. The pendulum will always swing back until someone stops it.
It wasn't even about interviews. This man is lying about the study and how it was presented and what the raw findings might indicate. You can look the study up. It's not like he says. Makes you wonder why he'd be so deceptive.
@@cs5384 What in the world are you talking about?? The study was described exactly as he does, in “The New York Times”…..It was conducted at Dartmouth University in 1991, with 27 participants. The results were exactly what has been revealed in this post. Why are you seemingly lying about this? What is your agenda?
As a woman who has a scar on my forehead, I have never felt discriminated because of it. I actually became topic of conversation. People ask me how i got the Harry Potter scar 😆
I work in retail, so part of working in retail is greeting the customers and checking to see if they need anything. There were a few instance where I would check on someone and they would immediately say “I’m not stealing so you don’t have to follow me” or “I promise there’s nothing in my bag.” It always leaves me speechless.
I just had this a couple of months ago. I was the only person on the sales floor and so had to help customers and ring them out. I also had a cart of back stock to put on the shelves right where this lady was. I went into the aisle just to be there to help and took advantage of that time to get things on the shelf. She left and it looked like she was headed toward the register. I started back and she said she felt like I was following her. I told her no, and after I checked her out, I apologized for appearing that way. She thanked me for the apology. Having said that, I did nothing wrong to have to apologize. It was in her mind. I've done this with many people over seven years or more and have never had anyone say this.
You should understand some ppl definitely do get profiled when shopping and it makes you feel like a dog. So please give them grace, we can't tell who's being nice and who's just keeping an eye on us thinking we are nothing but a dirty thief, it tends to make you a bit defensive.
It's the same study... You can call it victimhood if you want.. but it's not really about that. It's about confirmation bias which has already been said elsewhere. If the manager gets in his head that a worker is trouble, he'll confirm that suspicion even when it isn't true.
I worked with a guy once who said his mother did hiring for higher level managers for a corporation. One thing he told me she would do is take them to lunch on the interview and if the interviewee salted or peppered their food before they tasted it she was unlikely to hire them because she thought that was an indication of them being a premature problem solver. I told him his mother seems to be the one with that problem.
This was a test on self-confidence, not discrimination. Simple resume studies have been done as well. People with ethnic sounding names received a lot fewer calls than people with white names, and with the same experience and qualifications.
Why do you think white people can't also have ethnic-sounding names, like Sergei? Also...do you think someone with a name like Kleitus or Bubba (someone who sounds like a white redneck) would get as many calls as someone named Tom? I'm sure they wouldn't. People are naturally attracted to things they're familiar with. "Tom" is a more familiar-sounding name than "Sergei." Also, people are biased in favor of names that are easy to say and easy to spell: studies have shown that people are more likely to buy stock in companies that have simple, easy-to-pronounce names, like Apple. That's not racism...that's just the quirks of the human brain.
I do have a facial scar. As a kid, people , usually boys, commented on it and made fun of me. I was about 29 when i no longer cared what people thought. A coworker commented the other day on the scar and was shocked that im not self-conscious about it. I told her i had a long time to get over insecurities of things i cannot control
How could you be insecure about a scar you know you don't really have though? I don't see how this experiment would be tainted by insecurity, I think it is a good example of victimhood as they were primed with the idea that they will be judged. Edit: just realized I commented a reply, I wasn't targeting the op of this comment, just that some people argue that this experiment is tainted by insecurity which i doubt.
@@archive8080that’s just not true. Some don’t care, some are curious, and some are cruel about it. There’s always at least those 3, maybe a mix of them, and maybe something else.
A few years ago a younger cousin of mine was on this entire thing of how no one would hire him, and if he got a got a job his boss was racist, mistreated him, etc... he would make all these post about how every boss was against him.... come to find out he wasn't a victim of any kind of racism or discrimination. The bosses were writing him up b/c he was constantly late, barely did his job and would just take off whenever he wanted. He played the victim card for a long time and many believed it yet he never too accountability for his part smh... victimhood is real
@@Nonybusinessxxxxxx >uses slang >not qualified for being hired what are u on rn that IS discrimination like why shouldn't they be hired if they used inner city slang
@@Nonybusinessxxxxxx systemic discrimination is done by a group who is prejudiced in some negative way against another group that has become a commonplace (systemic) thing- while discrimination individually may never end, things can be done to halt the spread of systemic discrimination.
This is the only reference I’ve seen to this study from a reputable source (the NYT): “Dr. Robert Cleck, a psychologist at Dartmouth College, has devised an experiment that illustrates how body image affects how people think. Using theatrical makeup, researchers fashioned a scar on female subjects before their interaction with a stranger hired for the experiment. Unbeknown to the women, the scar was removed before the face-to-face conversation with the stranger. Nevertheless, the women said the stranger had stared at the scar and made them uncomfortable.” They reported discomfort, not discrimination.
So what you're saying is that this guy was primed by his preexisting belief that "wokeism" is a problem, to read more into this study than was really there?
The best thing we can learn from this is when we judge someone, we must ask ourselves why? The immediate effect is that we will find out more about ourselves; the second effect is we become happier.
I have a scar on my face and no one stops me from getting work. BUT!!!!! I remember when I was in the hospital for my face injury, and there was a male nurse that said he would have found me attractive if I hadn't injured my face. So the discrimination is real, but not the way people think. And now years past and my scar is slightly visible, but it doesn't stop men flirting with me.
I hired a lot of people. I don't care about scars, unless they would be the result of auto mutilation or self scarification as that might suggest a mental issue
I agree with the dangers of victimhood. But you cant ignore the actual experience of being a victim. Some Persons arent preached discrimination they experience it.
And? They didn't say that discrimination is impossible, they just said that if you look for discrimination you will find it in things that are not discriminatory.
And most people "experience" discrimination because they are told it exists literally everywhere and they are a poor innocent victim who needs special treatment. In current year, "discrimination" is refusing to install a litter box in the school restroom because you identify as a cat.
That's not the point of the video. He's simply pointing out that if people believe they are being oppressed, they will feel oppression whether it's there or not. Teaching people that they are at a disadvantage when they are not, really hamstrings society. We have way too many minorities that believe they are living unhappy lives due to white privilege, and women believing they can't achieve success due to a patriarchy. There's nothing stopping minorities from pursuing an education and starting a business and investing their money. In fact, it's easier for them to pursue an education due to minority scholarships and affirmative action. If anything, there's a real case of minority privilege, rather than white privilege. White males face more criticism and oppression than any other group in the US. It seems anything they do that is within their nature is considered toxic masculinity, and any success they achieve was the result of privilege. They can't win.
@@vvhitevvabbit6479 this must be the most dumb comment I have read in a while. oh while males are so oppressed even though stats show otherwise. you are the perfect example of confirmation bias
How did they not know that the fake scars were removed? After working with stage and wound simulation makeup for many years I can say that the sensation a person feels having the 'scars' applied or touched up feels markedly differently than having them removed.
@@zahraa4149 'scar-like' formation that would even begin to look real would require more than just some color or pigment to the skin. Point being, the person would know it was removed by how the process feels and not just "touched up".
Its a two sided problem, in that people often are victimised in one way or another, but viewing yourself as a victim makes it easier to see victimisation around every corner. It's a tough subject without many good answers, though it does highlight the importance of attitude.
Exactly, Ru Paul, the black drag queen said this...."If you are trigger-happy and you’re looking for a reason to reinforce your own victimhood, your own perception of yourself as a victim, you’ll look for anything that will reinforce that.” According to modern standards he is wildly and utterly oppressed... I'm pretty sure he has run into issues before, but he has an amazing attitude.
True. Essentially, it's a trauma-like response. You experience discrimination many times at one point in your life, you expect it to come that many times later on, unless you don't just stop experiencing discrimination, but someone actually affirms you and gives you proper self-confidence (as opposed to going too far and giving you an excessively heightened ego), in which case you're more able to tell which is actual discrimination and which is just badly worded or not discriminatory at all.
@@moondust2365 The scary thing this study showed is that it doesnt have to be the result of real discrimination or trauma though. Just living in a culture that lies to you about the discrimination you will face makes you more likely to invent discrimination.
I worked in the job centre and everyone would go on about they aren't given a chance because... their age, lack of experience, career break for children, disability etc. They all convinced themselves that they were not going to be successful. Mindset is the single most important thing for our success
Yes but people are judged on looks colour race religion language. Understand him but their is something wrong in his opinion also what would something said to think this unless knowing what was said cannot believe it
The fact is they are using it as excuses for things they don't want to do ...if people can play on things to benefit them .. that's exactly what they will do . More and more of these lazy people are multiplying as the years go on.
Yes but it is very hard when you are told to apply for x amount of jobs a week. And get just any job. I hated applying for jobs. The constant rejection. You find a job im an area where you would be able to excel. And you get turned down. I was trying to find a garage for my college placement. Ended up getting a place at the biggest garage in the district.
@@cincin4515 I should point out that it wasn't that sort of college. It was a technical college for trade skills. We are also talking 23 years ago. Back then woke meant to wake up. Now I think it means you are asleep...
This is one of the biggest reasons racism is still alive. People are trained to look for it in everything from birth. Most often it isn't there but People will think it is
If you tell people they are in a study to examine discrimination based on facial deformities and show them the scars, of course they're actively looking for those things, and reporting them back, because that's what they expect to happen. That's why in most psychology experiments, you leave the subjects clueless about what they're trying to find out. Otherwise they're gonna be already influenced and won't behave like normal.
@@Mewmew-lv5iv insecurity and oppression are two different things. You literally only feel oppressed if you actually are oppressed. Feeling made fun of or insecure is not the same thing as feeling discriminated against and this study has absolutely nothing to do with oppression or perceived oppression
Except that the study he mentioned did none of that. The study he referring to is called "gender and responses to disfigurement in self and others" and it didn't even have those women go look for a job. The purpose of the study was to see if facial discrimination differs in gender, and how the participants react to their own disfigurement and how it impacts their relationship... Dude just bs an entire study :)))
@@hhbddjstar I thought it sounded weird when he specified that women were the ones being tested on, because if you're looking for information about feelings of victimhood, it would be helpful to look at everyone. I feel like he's using the fact that they used a group of women in the study to subtly imply that feeling like a victim is a "female trait" along with saying that doing such is inherently bad. Kinda yucky all round
@@butchcoolidge2533 You're missing the fact perception isn't as black and white as you wish it was. Feeling oppressed and being oppressed aren't necessarily correlated. Idk, where you came up with the idea that you only feel that way through the action. You can translate an action of being made fun of into discrimination which would then be oppression. Perception is key
@@hhbddjstar Dude, the women in the study specifically mentioned people staring at their scars. Obviously their perception of how people were treating them had been very much influenced by their expectations.
Do you accept polls extrapolating %ages for almost 350 million people’s beliefs based on 1000 responses that may be hand picked to create the desired numbers?
@@ophello I don’t object to a bigger study and I detest polls, but I totally believe that someone unused to facial scaring would feel self conscious and project onto others an attitude not in evidence. I see it every time I am in public and someone goes off on a stranger who accidentally bumps into them. We live in a less civil world today where we ascribe intention here it may not be.
1000 is a perfectly reasonable number to do a study on that gives usable data for a population of a few hundred million. If you don’t understand statistics, you can be fooled into thinking bigger is better but the truth is 1000-3000 is ideal. If you get a sample that’s non-negligible compared to the size of the population, you actually fail to get a random sample and now the results are going to be biased to the majority. The difference in error between 100-1000 is small, and the improvement in error margin from 1-3000 is almost nothing. You can look this up if you don’t believe me
i faced discrimination. i was in a job interview and i was asked if i would have issues with the kids if asked about my facial issues and i said i wouldn't. i got the job and only one kid ever gave me issues but stopped when i asked him why he was scared of me.
Oh, so when my elementary teacher told me that I was born in another country and that I didn't deserve to be in their classroom (even though I'm born and raised in the USA) it was all in my mind? Got it. (insert eyeroll here)
Yep, Jimmy's right - he's pretty much just making this up. No such study ever happened and (if you give it a moment's thought) you'd realise the experiment he describes would never work.
@@vicsaturno7274 what a strange perception of how people you have never met want to "feel". Forget the experiment, the behaviour he is talking about is easily discerned just by witnessing how people act .
True, people finding out they have toxic parents through social media as Pinterest, RU-vid keep searching for more comfirmation and excuses they can make because of their ordeal. Only a few don't feel they are a victim and aren't looking for compassion because of it.
I had a friend with terrible facial scars, she was lovely, her personality not only made her scars of no consequence but she often said that she believed she got treated better simply because people felt sorry for her, which i thought was so sad :( but at the same time i appreciated that people tried so hard to not make her feel conscious of it, such a conundrum, so its difficult for people to react because either way can be deemed as wrong.
You're doing exactly what he said. You're making her scars everything. You're even "so sad" because people treat her nicely. You're definitely playing the victim about something that doesn't even affect you.
So what you're saying is that the West is so out of touch with reality that they're so afraid to speak the truth out of fear of hurting her so called feelings? I would wonder if she got into those jobs by being a charity case then. In my country, she would be grilled with how she'd interact with the company or the team. If she showed any signs of being a problem, she would never make it pass the initial interview.
I used to visit a hospital ward dedicated to patients with facial and teeth injuries/ deformity. Those women need to spend time with those patients who's suffering often could only be shown though their eyes.....
I love how guys immediately get biased because he's talking about women (without actually citing that "study" btw) and not recognize the whining men everywhere in the interwebs leave about feminism, about how women are too proud and whatever. Because that's what a lot of MRAs and PUAs do, talk men into some victim role 😂😂
@@Sanquinity I did a quick googling and yes, your version got more hits. Tho I can't deny that OP's version sounds a bit more fitting for some situations (and I like the fanciness of it too). Thank you for teaching me something new~.
He didn't explain it well, because instead of making it clear that one can easily be tricked into believing something, he make it look like that is not okay to look for discrimination. The fact there were no scars in the group control of the study doesn't mean those women didn't feel discriminated, nor that they weren't discriminated for their facial features. We need more information to get any conclusion about this experiment.
It's easier to believe anything that aligns with your biased opinion than it is to verify if something is actually true. This study "they" did, isn't real.
more like when you're looking soo hard into studies that you have to select some study from the 80s in order to make a random point across (and you also ignore the fact that same study involved men and women but you'll selective mention just one gender to make your point)
It doesn't just change how you interpret the behavior of people you interact with, it also changes how you act. which can't help but affect the entire interaction. You're not just seeing something that isn't there, sometimes you're creating it.
@@justaguy3538 I’m not talking about a situation where you don’t actually have the thing. This comment is about peoples paranoia around their gender or race. You can’t stop being a black person or a woman. It’s not some thing in your head like fake scars. So you can’t say that you are seeing some thing because of a trait you don’t have like this experiment.
he's not. He's using a study from 1980. It says nothing about today. If anything it shows that women were massively discriminated against in 1980, regardless of the scars.
@Marius Malus Ding ding. It says nothing that he claims it does and sounds deeply, deeply flawed. Just another Right wing grifter or idiot preying on the layman's inability to think critically.
This is how skin color divided the world. It matters more than it has proven to matter. Many great minds were denied the birthright to help make the world a better place.
