@@throwdownlax I will say they stretch overtime about one size in my opinion i got those in 44 because I wanted to layer underneath them. But you can comfortably take those down into the mid 40F with mid level longjohns underneath. They are so comfortable. It’s ridiculous. One company I highly recommend if you’re going to get. Top layers is Firstlite they are big. So I would recommend them
@throwdownlax I would say go with the kuiu pants hands down. However, I’ve heard good things about the new 308 pants but I cannot vouch for them. I just have had a good track record with kuiu