Lady Bird: Love is Attention 

I saw another video which quotes Gerwig saying that when she read Didion she felt like she understood Sacramento for the first time, after having lived there for so long. So I think you’re right.

doesn't it open with a Didion quote?

I’m in the same place as you are, I’m sorry for your loss and I’m so proud of you. ❤

@@OAMLLMAO you too.

Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽

I would challenge your statement, because as you are forgiving ladybird for her behavior I believe Marion also has a lot of weight on her back. I do believe some of the things she says to ladybird are terrible, but ladybird must really be driving her crazy. Even to me, lady bird wasn’t a likeable character throughout the film. What the film did was to get the viewer to understand where she was coming from and to develop her as a character. Obviously, Marion being a side character doesn’t get this same effect. I think we have to understand her role properly. Because she works double shifts, has all the economic pressure, while still having to raise ladybird basically by herself. Yes, she has a father but remember he has depression and also he doesn’t want to stand up against ladybird. With this said she has so much pressure on her back and although sometimes it might seem like she does ladybird wrong, I believe she’s trying her best. I feel like, following the statement that love is attention, she does love her because she does attend her needs. Also, we see how the mom really wants a relationship with ladybird but finds it hard to understand her and connect with her. (This isn’t by any means trying to start anything negative, I just want to say my opinion and continue the conversation. sorry if it’s too long, I got inspired😂)

​​@@anarolon6998 mm, i think a detail that lots of people just roll over is that Marion was raised by an abusive alcoholic, so maybe there's a hint of that generational trauma flavour in Marion, which is the main focus of alot of lots of these harsh critics of her. However, most of them try to pick her issues apart from the perspective of a vacuum, without really considering Ladybird's influence, her push-pull effect on her. Ladybird is in no way perfect; she's angsty, pampered, selfish, ungrateful at times, basically a rather messy and unlikeable character in her youth. The most hurtful part in the movie to me was when she just received her Davis' acceptance and unnecessarily (and unfairly) called out on her brother for getting into Berkeley based on his race. There were also a bunch more actions of hers, like abandoning her best friend Julie (temporarily) for another stupid boy crush, that are also rather questionable, but I won't list them because we've all watched the movie. Whether these adolescent impulsive actions should be normalised and accepted is another topic for discussion, I suppose. Back to Marion. It's true that Marion doesn't necessarily respect her completely. There are multiple times when she refuses to accept the Ladybird name given to herself, and some of her comments are just plain rude and scathing for a teenager still figuring things out. Yet, there are also those few quiet and peaceful scenes that really stood out to me, that really showed me how much Marion truly cared and loved her (maybe not liked?), like after her disappointing sex with Kyle, Marion came over and brought her along for their favourite activity: window house shopping. Moreover, she does come over in the end and refer to her by her preferred name, and respecting her more as a person. In my opinion, I simply think the instances of tough love is because she just doesn't know what to do with Ladybird's strong personality; someone has to play the bad guy and confront her, and that's certainly not the dad. It would likely be irresponsible for Marion to ignore all the unthinking actions that Ladybird does at times. So yes. While Marion is flawed in her parenting and in person- in agreement with the original comment, her most immature being when she stonewalled Ladybird - I don't think it's entirely fair to label her as "abusive" as a whole. Unless you think there's a certain threshold to the "abusive actions" that Marion has crossed that vindicates your opinion if her, which I personally dont think she has (where do we draw the line, right?). She could be more supportive, definitely, but she doesn't entirely invalidate Ladybird's character. Anyways, during the stonewall/fight/betrayal period, Marion does still end up writing a few letters for Ladybird, and clearly does show regret for her actions in the end, unlike SOME other more emotionally immature parents out there. Yup so in summary I dont think Marion is entirely abusive as others paint her to be.

@@anarolon6998 I hear what you’re saying in your comment. I form my perspective as a MFT that specializes in childhood relational trauma. It is true that Marion is supporting this family and there is so much pressure on her to keep the ship afloat. That part is not purposely ignored by my comment. However what I hear in your reply is trying to justify Marion, which is different from identifying explanations for her behavior. We have to remember that while played by an adult, which can trick our minds as viewers, lady bird is supposed to be 17/18 over the course of the movie. This conflict has been going on years before we see them. It’s not a fair fight with a 40/50 something against a child/teen. You mentioned how ladybird was not easy on Marion, but this comment is trying to equalize them in some way and they are not equals. Sure, children/teens can lack the awareness of their behaviors and parents can point this out to them, however, again, children and teens are expected to not have this awareness and maturity because they are still in the extreme developmental stage of their lives. Human brains are not matured until about age 25. Many people use this argument “they did the best they could”. That really isn’t 100% true. People do the best they can with the tools they have at a given time. However we can always learn more tools. We can always involve other resources, other people that can teach us the skills we are lacking as parents or areas we are just so lost in. As a parent, that is your job. Parenting is not just making sure they are fed, clothed and surviving. Parenting is modeling every aspect of life and developing a person. If one is not willing to work on themselves as a parent the child will be a reflection in many ways of these deficits. Many parents become parents because they desire a family, likely to have a family they didn’t have. However your children are not there to fulfill your dreams and make things easier for you.

@@ElliotAlderson-bs2rf Good points. I think it’s also helpful to remember that this is a movie. We can write characters into moments of redemption or give them needed awareness at the right time. So what Marion does toward the end is somewhat convenient for the story and ultimately for us to form opinions. In real life, it’s not as common to see that reflection and action happen to quickly. Abuse is a spectrum. Nothing is black and white. So I do consider the act of stonewalling a form of abuse as many others would as well. Speaking on black or white. People are nuanced. Of course Marion isn’t entirely an abusive person. No one is. People can do behave in ways that are abuse and neglectful as well as be loving and caring. There is no one or the other, however I think historically we haven’t been holding parents accountable well enough for those behaviors and trying to soften it with when they are loving and caring. Accountability is not the same as shaming. It’s about taking ownership.

As the Child of a Narcissistic, abusive parent, much like Marion, you are completely right. "Attention" alone, does not inherently equate to love. Like my parent, her Mom is so obsessed with appearance, and Lady Bird being "ideal" to fit within what SHE wants for her. She puts her values over Lady Bird's and then abuses Lady Bird when her values don't align. She's constantly trying to downplay Lady Bird's concerns and elevate her own over them. Lady Bird isn't allowed to be her own person because her Mom's values and concerns are more important. The fact alone that she often refuses to call her by her chosen name shows this directly. And when she says, "I want you to be the best version of yourself that you can be.", it shows that she feels she isn't. And to me it seems to imply that "the best version" is whatever Marion approves of. The scene after Lady Bird gets suspended really got to me. Lady Bird messed up at school, she said something inappropriate and got suspended. But the way her Mom speaks to her felt just like my parent. She asks her, "do you think I like x things I do for you?", in that way that narcissistic abusers ask a question where you can only respond with "No", they aren't real questions. They only ask them to make you feel bad for THEM, and make it seem like you're the source of the problems. It's particularly telling, and bad, because she also asks in that scene, "Do you have any idea how much it costs to raise you?", which to me is just a ridiculous point to make to YOUR child. Lady Bird, like everyone ever, never asked to exist. Children do not owe their parents for the financial cost they have, that's the parent's responsibility, it isn't a burden to be held against the Child, it isn't her fault she exists. Also, when Marion tells Lady Bird, "My mother was an abusive alcoholic." It's an abusive justification for her treatment, and it's her way of saying "I had it worse than you do, you're lucky I am the way I am." Marion's own experience with abuse does NOT justify her treatment of Lady Bird and if anything, it makes it worse. She failed to learn from her own experiences and is continuing the abuse on her own Daughter. She, like many abusive and neglectful parents, seems like she wasn't prepared to be a parent. The scene where she gives her the silent treatment was so well done, and so harrowing. I agree that it's the worst thing she does in the whole movie. The immaturity, and just how abusive it is to treat your child that way. She's begging and pleading for forgiveness, apologizing for things she doesn't need to apologize for. Her Mother is so selfish and stubborn that she completely ignores her crying for forgiveness in her face. Her continuing it at the Airport also is awful. Her having a "change of heart" and trying to go see her off doesn't make it any better, either, too little, too late. I think that the end of the movie is the worst part, because I think that Lady Bird doesn't owe her mother forgiveness. However, I'm OKAY with it because I understand that as a character, someone like Lady Bird could exist. It's possible that she, herself, has found a way to legitimately forgive her mother. It doesn't condone how she acted, and it doesn't mean her Mother's actions were out of love, or even if they were, that they were appropriate actions. But it is possible that Lady Bird came to some level of acceptance, and that's OKAY. I don't think I'll ever forgive my parent, because they've never given me a reason to, and I don't think they ever can.

Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽

Their relationship has love and disdain, both. I hope people don’t confuse the two. Yelling, insults and arguments are disdain, not love. “Paying attention” to someone by yelling at or insulting them is not love. You can pay attention without it being love. What makes the difference is the kind of attention you pay. Please understand 🙏🏽

Definitely a good discussion to be had there! For sure the movie doesn’t shy away from either character’s flaws.

I am still baffled how so many people chose to ignore all the many red flags of narcissistic abuse in this movie. As the child of a similarly dismissive, devaluing, guilt tripping, silent treatment using, condescending vulnerable narcissistic mother I absolutely LOATHED the sappy, unearned forgiveness ending that just keeps Lady Bird in a toxic relationship where she basicly self-gaslights herself to even thank her mother. It is a gut punch of hopelessness seeing how this poor girl is staying in the abusive relationship and still considering it her own task to fix it, just because of the conditional love breadcrumbing her abuser used. I mean she didn't even care to finish nor send any of those letters so they count for shit. And when she turned back to the airport that was just about her and her own self-pity. How are people still so blind to this form of abuse in 2023?

​@@memento81As a victim of a similar toxic mother, I can't agree more. The amount of anger i felt when the ending gave no solutions for those who suffer from mommy issues. All it showed was the poor girl feeling helpless about her attachment to the abusive relationship she had with her mother. Very unhelpful movie.

@@memento81 it's not. Theres no such thing as a perfect relationship at all within a family or within a relationship with one or another. U also need to understand the perspective of the mother as well, not only on ladybirds. Having an open mind in both situation will understand that Lady bird understood her growth from her mother and that her attention from her is love. So youd rather have toxic positivity be a thing, and when a person loves you, checks all the boxes of the perfect person, then does something wrong to u, is fine compare to what the mom is doing?

@@memento81 or are u just going to keep running away from the world where no person will ever do anything bad to you, because right now waht ur saying is childish.

reconcile - jon brion

@@kayraaliza thank you