laenor didn't get enought credit for this scene. although daemon landed the last blow, laenor was the first one that came up with the plan to bait the crabfeeder out of the caves and torched them with the dragon. love my man laenor
Nobody should be getting credit for this if you look at the battle from an outside perspective as in not in the eyes of daemon you see there was no honor in the war they won. Daemon committed one of the worst war crimes you possibly could in the form of a false surrender. It was a suicide mission. If daemon had not succeeded then any future soldiers would be unable to surrender as the enemy would be far less likely to even consider it and rather resort to immediate execution. This isn't honorable and it definatly shouldn't have been rewarded as a good deed. This is a war crime plain and simple
@@martinorrego5807 geniva convention have absolutely nothing to do with it as the white flag was established long before that and is clearly established as surrender in the songs of ice and fire! Gotta read up on your books mate
@@jakestark2483 Ayo calm down champ. It was just a joke. Don't take it so serious. Besides, the guy they were fighting was no Saint either. The guy was literally a psychopath so personally I don't care how they won the war. It only matters that he was dealt with.
Damn Seasmoke is like the stealth dragon. I don't know if that was just for dramatic effect with score but he literally flew in with them none the wiser and torched them. I never really considered one of them having the potential to use stealth as a weapon. That sounds incredibly cool if used to its potential.
True, I think that's why a big deal is made about Seasmoke's colour in the books and alluded to in the show. He can blend in with clouds, fog and environment unlike Caraxes's red or Syraxes' gold for example.
@@kierakayz You're exactly right. Even on a clear day Seasmoke blends in with the sky extraordinarily well and his natural coloring is even more effective camouflage when the conditions are foggy, cloudy, or otherwise inclement. He's also _extremely_ quiet for a dragon, he isn't known for bellowing roars or displacing a huge amount of air in flight. He's sleek, aerodynamic; he slips through the air quietly where other dragons like Caraxes or Meleys or god help us Vhagar you can hear bulling their way through the air.
yeah thats y its name is Seasmoke. wat is a ''sea smoke'' actually? sea dont burn. but the sea does become a 'smoke'. when water go up it become cloud. soo its name is reference that it is a cloud. he very stealth can blend in with clouds.
@ChthonicRemains (Spoiler for the episode where Laenor waltzes off into the romantic sunset..... 😉...) So you’re OK with him letting his own innocent servant get slaughtered to provide that substitute corpse?
@@cou1202 So you're OK watching a show rife with characters that commit incest, rape, and murder? Laenor is a saint compared to 99% of the characters in the show lmao.
@@ChthonicRemains actually in this universe (this isn't the real world) what he did is punishable by the wall of attonment it would be on the same level as incest. Murder is clearly below it in severity seeing as how you don't see Jaime walking the streets naked. He's killed countless men. That being said they are all forgivable in this show with trial by combat. That was one of the best things the lannister boy did was remove it it was just a way for the rich to avoid trial
Young Laenor actor was so cute ugh I think all the younger versions of the characters deserved more screen time, those time jumps just like kept coming up one after the other lol!
One thing I admire about the show is that even though they have army of dragons behind the westerois forces they at least acknowledge the realism aspect of war. Yea, you have weapon of mass destruction but isn't that easy to wipe out whole army. Doesn't end the conflict in one blow.
Laenor is up there having the time of his life. He and SeaSmoke played a pivotal role in that battle and the war. Excellently done. Also shows how even one dragon can turn the tide.
Laenor deserved more screentime and Seasmoke is pretty as heck for a living breathing WMD. Kinda wish they'd highlighted the difference in training and discipline between the Westerosi forces and the Crabfeeders army by having the Velaryon troops maintain formation, ruthlessly efficient in cutting down the opposing side as they charge and run amok chaotically. The Velaryons have an organized standing army led by trained knights, they wouldn't be running about like nutters unless the enemy was fully routing, which they weren't. Anyway. Daemons a badass, Laenor is cool and Seasmoke is pretty. Fun scene
@@petervizzini4006 Maintaining formation in uneven and difficult terrain has been a thing in warfare forever. Crecy and Agincourt were fought on uneven terrain while formations were maintained, Macedonian phalanxes regularly fought on uneven terrains. Besides, it's not even terribly uneven. I mean, they're basically on a beach. The wild rush into melee is almost entirely an invention of pop culture, scriptwriters think it's "epic." I just think it's kind of a shame, considering that HotD has been generally pretty excellent when showing swordfights, jousting, medieval style combat etc. Especially compared to Game of Thrones, which was a hot mess.
@@orbitalbutt6757 true but there was a lot of debris around the beach that any formation would have trouble maneuvering and the archers on the cliffs would pick them off if they got a clear shot
@@petervizzini4006 I agree. That's just a risk you take, though. When you have a bunch of crazy out of control nutters rushing at you, you don't counter charge. You tighten ranks where you can, lock shields, and murder them in a ruthlessly professional way as they arrive in disorganized groups of two, three, four at a time. The nice part about formations in a historical sense is that you can break them down into smaller and smaller pieces and still maintain a level of cohesion that'd make a disordered charge like we see from the Crabfeeders absolutely suicidal. But let's also be honest, I'm really just nitpicking, haha. It's a TV show and I understand that, and I think it was an outrageously fun scene to watch. I enjoyed every minute of what was put in front of me. That's what's really important here, that it was very fun to watch. I'm only arguing at all because I've found our discussion here to be fun too and I've enjoyed speaking to another fan who's got a good attitude about the whole thing 😁 I hope you have a good day my man, it's been a pleasure chatting
@@LittleMissSmallPaw Is he saying they're the only dragons too fight during Visery's reign. If so then Meleys has to be removed because she didn't fight during this time. As far as overall experience Vhagar and Vermithor has more battle experience than them all.
Remember a lot of videos have theorized that Drogon was large because he was semi-feral for a good chunk of his life whereas a lot of the Dance Dragons are well kept in the dragon pits. There was also a big size difference in Drogon vs Viserion and Rhaegal
@@buffalojoe78 Drogon is also referred to as Balerion reborn, Balerion was the largest dragon EVER ... by far. Drogon's just huge AF for a dragon. Same with Aegon's dragon Sunfyre, he's only like 10-15 years old but should already be pretty huge and could absolutely destroy any dragon except the ~100+ year old ones (Vhagar, Caraxes, Vermithor, Silverwing, or Meleys).
@@ihaveacar Balerion wasn't the largest dragon "ever". Surely there was larger dragons during the time of Valyria. He was however, the largest after the doom of Valyria.
@@thehendowski no they're right. While the Targaryens were still in old Valyria they were only a middling house. Not the weakest but also not the strongest. And the Valyrian empire had dragons for 5000 years. It's not baseless to assume they could've had many dragons larger than Balerion during their reign. Balerion is the largest known dragon in Westeros yes but it's not unreasonable or baseless to assume there could've been larger during the 5 millennia reign of the Valyrian Freehold
Damn bro you’re spot on with that I just love how absolutely devoted to this story the creators of HOTD. They’re attention to details such as this one deserves all the praise.
It's strange how Laenor and Laena both have the same accent between their different actors even but their father or uncle doesn't. I don't even know what that accent is. It's almost French but like off-french
Fun fact, Houses Sunglass and Staunton made an appearence in the show, their arms being shown on shields when Corlys and his men show up for battle. According to the wiki Houses Celtigar and Bar Emmon were also featured but I cant spot them. EDIT: a shield with House Celtigar's sigil is seen on a sniped photograph. House Bar Emmon's soldiers remain elusive...
@@kierakayz Lord Bartimos Celtigar was the one who reminded Rhaenyra on her council that she has “power which haven’t been seen since the time of Old Valyria. Dragons.”
Vaemond complaining from his first scene to his last really does make him the master of complaints lol I wish Laenor got more credit for this scene. I wonder what will happen to his dragon :/
he gets claimed by laenor's aleged bastard son adam of the hull, however lets be honest. Dragons can only bond to 1 person, and laenor is still alive, its VERY likely that laenor = adam of hull
Not necessarily. Dragons won't accept just anyone as their rider, they're picky. Many die or are injured in the attempt to claim a dragon with no rider, so it wouldn't be obvious Laenor was alive if someone tried and Seasmoke rejected them. Though it'll be REALLY interesting to see how Addam of Hull's story plays out as a result of Laenor not actually being dead... 🤔 2024 will be a long time coming!
I hope he does. I saw someone making a joke that it would be funny if Laenor came back as a certain book character that appears later in the storyline. And then everybody but Alicent just accepts that this is a new person, and Alicent complains again that everyone is a hypocrite and liars. Why can't they admit that this person is Laenor. As a parallel to how no one seemed to acknowledge that Rhaenyra's kids were bastards but her 🤣.
Is it possible that Seasmoke came from Dreamfyre? He looks very much like Daenerys’ dragons. Also what a dope name he is : sea for the Velaryons and smoke for the Targaryens!
Leonor is a war strategist, a knight, an expert in traveling the seas, a dragon rider. he is the perfect man of any man in westeros of his age, perfect match of Rhaenyra. he only has one drawback for being gay
The Stepstones have the same strategic value as the modern day Suez and Panama Canals. The Iron Throne should have thrown their entire Navy to capture those islands.
While he wasn't around for long, I liked Vaemond's character. He seems bitter to some but he's a guy who doesn't appreciate BS and isn't afraid to show his frustration when it's clear that unreliable people are making major decisions. He may not have been 100% right about Daemon but, well, Daemon's a wild card by definition so . He had every right to be pissed off at how things were going. For the Velaryon line and Driftmark to be given to the Strong's would've been an insult. Maybe if Otto's odd but decent plan to marry Aegon 2 and Rhaenyra pushed through then... maybe that would've solved a lot too. Just saying, if the King said the sky was purple but it was clearly blue, then I see the fact for what it is. Sky is blue. Even if the Velaryons didn't accept the 3 "Strong" boy's of Rhaenyra, you think Viserys would care? They'd have to threaten to leave their connection from Westeros but even then I'm sure Viserys would push for them to return. I feel Vaemond's frustration, it was a shame to watch him die the way he did. Eventually half the Realm will see the boys as Bastards. In the books, I'm told it was FAR worse. Many of the Velaryons lost their tongues when they were outraged at how Vaemond was killed in court, and called out Viserys for the situation regarding the murder and the Bastards.
Vaemond was a charlatan and an usurper. The Strong boys were betrothed to his brothers grandkids by Laena. The eventual heirs of Driftmark were going to have Velaryon and Targaryen blood. He just wanted to the seat for himself so he made up a bunch of bullshit to justify his seizure of Driftmark.
Well vaemonds whole thing was the velaryon blood but since jace and Luke were betrothed to baela and rhaena, vaemonds has no reason to try to get driftmark if it was blood that he rlly cared abt
Yes, Viserys had many of their tongues removed. But Vaemond was also trying to usurp the Driftwood Throne by force. He ain't innocent. Even in the show he had a shady deal wit the Hightower's to help usurp the throne ..
yet he was not satisfied that the solution given was baela and rhaena marrying laenor's LEGITIMATE sons - yes legitimate, because laenor claimed them at court and to the seven kingdoms. thats literally the law, even the velaryons claimed the three sons of rhaenyra. and none talked about how genes are passed down. like if vaemond actually ACTUALLY cared about house velaryon, then why not see to the compromise knowing fully well laenor and his own family claimed rhaenyra's kids as scions of house velaryon? knowing they would be wedding laena's two daughters anyhow?
I agree I just don’t understand why he’s black? I’m interested on the lore about that. I see he’s a related to the Targaryens, but I don’t have all the info. Corlys is white in the books but with dark hair
Laenor wasn't wrong though. His face covered in dirt, Corlys's armor have scratches. Vaemond's armor in the other hand, was clean. All he have is his big mouth.
Allow me to present Sr Vaemond Valeryon first and last of his name. He was the second son of driftmark. he kept his tongue, Belittled bastards, and was granted the honor of being the official master of complaints under the rain of king Daemon Targaryen of the step-stones.
It’s kind of sad we didn’t see anymore Essos invasions. Because a few years later, Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh would try to reclaim the step stones, along with the Dornish.
Vaemonds arc is a perfect example showing how we will all root against the person in the right and support the villain depending on how the narrative is spinned by the teller.
A person's sexual preference and gender is taken way too seriously in this world. Otherwise, Laenor could be an amazing Lord of Driftmark and Rhaenyra could be queen without resistance
Women rule with emotion. Rhaenyra's first act as Queen was to consider accepting the terms of peace of the usurper of her throne. And so Daemon was so angry.
@@tairondeoliveira4276 Rhaenyra wants to inspire service and devotion in common people. And if she was the one to start the war, people would have labelled her as tyrannical and mad for attacking her own brother and murdering her best friend. Now when Aemond killed her son, she has a valid reason to attack and claim her throne. Now, peace loving people would be on Rhaenyra's side.
@@anonymousnation5235 pure emotion. The Greens plotted to crown Aegon behind her back, Alicent did spread rumors about the strong boys and Rhaenyra marriage and she still consider to make peace...
@@tairondeoliveira4276 Rhaenyra wanted to prevent a war, the war which eventually led to the extinction of dragons. Rhaenyra was trying to keep the dragons and Targaryens alive, it's a shame Aegon and Aemond couldn't see it and gave in to the Hightower idiots.
@@fortheloveofcats2462 Sorry but Rhaenyra wouldn't have known the war would cost House Targaryen their dragons so she wouldn't have the intention of being in a war in order to "save them". Rhaenyra's faction actually sent *more* dragons into a deadly war than Alicent's faction did, as she controlled Dragonstone and thus the majority of the dragon hatcheries. (Plus the Black faction had more younger members than the Green faction who then became dragon riders). It was like 13 Black dragons - 4 Green dragons (well, at the start anyway). Younger dragons capable of having more eggs too. They even went out of their way and recruited/conscripted wild/riderless dragons into joining the war who would've just minded their business otherwise. You're injecting your knowledge of the aftermath in the lore (dragons later going extinct due to the war) as a viewer into her character's intentions with that one, in order to make her seem better/more noble than she actually is. I'm not taking a side here, just noting that your obviously biased fanboyism is clouding your analysis. ❌ - No, Queen Rhaenyra didn't enter into war with the Greens to "save the dragons". Ironically, if her *highest* priority was to save as many dragons and Targaryens as possible, then logically she'd have just bent the knee to Aegon II immediately and avoided a war, kinda like the last Stark King did with Aegon the Conqueror. Did Rhaenyra want to avoid war if possible? Yes. Was avoiding war her highest priority above all else? No.
While I love that they let Laenor live, that is going to cause some trouble later on. Seasmoke will feel that he is still alive and won't bond with another rider. One excerpt states "Once a dragon has bonded with a rider, that dragon will not allow anyone else to mount it alone while its rider lives, no matter how familiar said person might be to the dragon." And also this one: "When the rider of a dragon dies, that dragon can bond with a new rider."
I doubt it would happen but if laenor comes out of nowhere for the dance of dragons just like showin up again to save his mom or his ex wife who freed him, and take revenge for the death of his son. I know he wasn’t their blood but they grew up with him and thought he was their dad
They were near an handels passage, so every time a ship passed or an enemy ship attacked they sunk it and waited till the goods washed ashore, that's the only reason they could stay there for so long
@@rubenbuysse5933 And in response to "why not detour around the area, and form a blockade", I will give a real-world analogue: the Strait of Malacca. Passage through that area is no less cruical to the economies of southern Westeros and Essos than passage through the Strait of Malacca for the global economy on Earth.
