Landing at St Barths TFFJ (Pilots View) _ Left Pattern RWY 28 (Part 2) 

Lake Wolford Airport (8CL1) was the toughest one for me, 1300x30 on top of a cliff.

Funny !

HiddenWindshield they won't land.

I came to ask that! Also, do those people know their roofs are integral to the flight path?

@@beannamated imagine seeing this and realising thats your house they talk about xD

@@shakeit6898 It will probably appreciate in value.

+Mets747 Thanks

+elfaroproductions Thanks, this is it actually. I can do San Diego at any time, and probably Eagle Vail in a weekend. And maybe Juliana next time I happen to go over there to St Maarten. Couchervel and Toncontin are also possible. Not sure about Gibraltar. But Madeira I have no idea, and Lukla is probably out of the question unless you have $50+K to spend. There are plenty of US small airports that can give you the same sense of accomplishment, Blackinton in California is very much comparable to St. Barths, Wohlford in California is very comparable to SABA. Big Bear is comparable to Eagle Vail. So there is a lot of close airports that are awesome.

+GVad The Pilot (FSX404) I will look at blackington and wohlford.. tnx.

Just got done driving thru a Dominican Republic town, no rules, just dont hit a motorcycle 🤣

This has been my favorite approach to practice in MSFS for this exact reason. I love that in the scenery, all of these houses, restaurants, hotels etc. are rendered as they would be in real life. Only difference is I typically come in with a bit more altitude and turn further out, over the northern tip of Grande Saline, to line up with Route de Saline (before Eden Hotel comes into view).

​@@FSX404 The charts show another (4th) approach, essentially overflying Ile Coco, Plage de Saline, and Grande Saline, before joining base to land 28 (so same as the approach in the video once you turn base). I can see why that wouldn't need to be tested on your check ride, but do you know if it's used at all? I would guess not that often due to the proportion of arrivals being from Juliana but idk. But for sightseeing purposes I like it the best; Grande Saline and the beach leading up to it make for a stunning view.

@@yoweedmofo19897 if I remember, thats just a rwy 10 approach just from the south, basically a different other side base, shouldnt be any different. Is it used? Probably not much, most flights come from northwest.

Catalina always raises the hairs on the back of my neck, its a 3000 foot runway, but just the postion of it is weird, like landing on top of a building. BTW, try Wohlford 8CL1, that is scary

thank you, I remember doing the tutorial of a chart, it was pretty accurate but missing the actual details like specific points and altitudes. Something you get only when getting actual instructions. Thanks for sticking around.

And here is to another 4 years :)

You actually can't take off runway 28 at all; it's a one way out airport so if winds don't favor it, you're grounded. The issues with taking off 28 are obviously the obstacle (hill at the end), but also the uphill gradient of the runway... most planes will never get even short of rotation speed by the end of runway 28. And you're right about the prevailing wind, but that would imply a runway 10 (into the wind) takeoff as well as landing is the norm, right? Why take off in a tailwind if a headwind is available? As far as why 28 is used at all, it's actually pretty interesting. Although the trade winds blow over the bay from the east, meaning 28 should typically experience tailwinds, if the wind is under 10kts, the tailwind is negligible enough that it's actually easier to stop on 28 than on 10, thanks to 28 being uphill. Conversely, if you tried landing 10 under those conditions, your groundspeed will be that much higher; that along with the downhill slope of 10 makes a runway excursion more likely. It happens that certain times of day (esp early morning), the winds are much more suited to runway 28 than 10, so 28 does get some use but not quite as much as 10.

You're not a pilot, obviously!

+Adrian Koola I'm off to hell if I don't change my wicked ways, lol. I don't know, Maybe some California airports. I really want to do the approach into Blackinton and landing at Wohlford.

took the words out of my typer lol

Dave M lol, there is no easy way at St Barts. I did actually do all three approaches.

Cost me $220 to fly all 2 once at St Marten, next time I vacation there I'll do it again, or maybe SABA

Ryan very true, I've seen a video of a go-around at Lukla. But it isnt a safe go-around. As the checkout instructor said before the flight "slam it on the ground, brake the wheels, your chances are better than a go-around."

GVad The Pilot unless you have stalled the airplane, then you are still in a condition to fly. If I'm unstable, I'd always rather go around then attempt to slam it on the ground and hope for the best.

@@Ryan-sw4xy Why? I'd much rather slow down as much as possible on the ground before I overran the runway and hit the hill, as opposed to hitting it at Vx.

@@HiddenWindshield A go around would prevent hitting the wall at all.

@@Ryan-sw4xy It's certainly *possible* that you could have enough of a climb rate to avoid the hill, *if* you start early enough, *and* you establish and maintain your best angle-of-climb speed, *and* there's no downdraft or anything. But it's not safe to do so. Actually, that last point deserves a little more scrutiny. You wouldn't be landing on 28 unless the wind favored that runway. That means it's very likely that that the wind will be blowing down the hill. So you're almost always going to be facing a downdraft if you do a late go-around. So, in short, if I ever have the chance to land at St. Barths, I think I'll follow the advice of the CFIs who have actually been trained to land there, as opposed to some random guy I met on RU-vid.

+Tytus Abrahamson When at final approach speed and flying over a gap that creates drafts and turbulence, the stall horn is liable to come on for a second, good thing we have 10-15 kts to spare lol. I love Beech planes that I have flown, Bonanzas and this Skipper. A little touchy since I usually fly planes in 3000-4000 lbs range, but I got used to it really fast and the plane itself was very stable. As Thomas said, Beechcraft fixed all the issues that Piper Tomahawk (Skipper is based on that design) had.

It's potentially very dangerous. If, as you approach the threshold, you realise you are a bit high or fast, or both, you won't be able to either turn away or climb fast enough to clear the terrain, so a crash would be inevitable. Look at Courcheval (The Alps) airport videos for a similar problem.

The climb gradient of the aircraft is inferior to the climb gradient required by the terrain.

It is possible. He is being misleading

It's theoretically possible, but there's not a good option to abort unless you're still about 1/2 mile out, at which point you've still got a 45º turn to final. Coming from the SE it's easy to abort any time before you're on final, at which point your maneuvering is all done.

rasim81 I dont think you can do a night landing at St Barths.

GVad The Pilot Cool video! I can't wait to start my flight lessons. Hopefully next spring.

rasim81 did you start your lessons?

GaryNumeroUno If I remember correctly the airport is towered, so we did get a landing clearence. Either way, the instructor who was flying with me handled tbe radios. That hill is 150+ feet high, so most planes would not make it over. Its a lot higher then it looks in videos. As the instructor put it, better to break the wheels than end up on the side of the hill.

Ahhh... thanks for that. Nice work...

@@kimchi2780 I cant remember exactly, but I believe its an "unofficial" tower, kind of like Catalina in California. There is a person there at the airport that gives weather and other updates, but its technically uncontrolled. Its not a person at TNCM

Funny question, but there is a real answer to it actually. Everyone needs a yearly checkout to fly into here, so those who do it every day know about the change, and guys who fly occasionally will have to get re-briefed at their new checkout

+Pierre Larr-Magras (Pierrot From The Air) St. Barths flight was awesome, as was Thomas. I did this on the 22nd of Sept. Thomas did tell me a lot about approaches and winds. Even on a "calm" wind day you'll see in the third video how that wind pushed me when turning on final. I'll have to experience that heavy wind, and hopefully will one day. I'll probably do my checkout there when I come back (hopefully end of April next year 2016). And fly the 172 instead of Beech 77 so that I can take my family there too.

+GVad The Pilot (FSX404) sometime it could be easier when you have whereas not... No that's an interesting airport that break the law of aviation. Depends the wind sometime you'll have to land downwind or disaxed landing to avoid turbulences... Check the traffic too. You have to known that' st BARTH is one of the heaviest traffic airport in France (not in quantity of pax of course) but on the numbers of airplanes!

jeremy davis sure, you can climb, right into the side of the 200 foot hill at the end of the runway

@@FSX404 Are you honestly telling me the plane you were flying, at full power and at sea level, couldn't climb above that hill from the point where you called no go around? C'mon man. It aint like its Lukla. A go around would be perfectly fine

@@turbofan450 Im just a messenger here, telling everyone what I was told by a checkout instructor. After seeing it myself, the height and steepness of the hill I do not think many planes could make a go-around safely. Could you do it? Maybe, with inches to spare. But could you do it safely? The answer is no.

No safe go-around. That hill on the other side of a 1800 foot runway is 150-170 feet tall, much taller than what it looks like on screen. 1800 foot runway and you have to be at 220+ feet at the end of it. So, yes a plane may make it over (someone had a go-around at Lukla once and made it), but its way below safety margins, so go-around not recommended. Better to brake the wheels or hit the wall at the end going 30kts, than the hill at 80+kts

+Nicolas Schaede Stay in touch, I might need to get contacts at St Maarten through you.

+GVad The Pilot (FSX404) Yeah for sure!

you cant take off from rwy 28, that hill at rwy 10 side is a lot higher than it looks in videos (150+ feet), most planes would not out-climb it.

No, just a wind pressure drop over the pass

@@FSX404 wind sheer... makes sense.

If you think about 1800 foot runway, it sounds like easy for most prop planes. And should be easy for any pilot woth a lot of hours. I found the runway 10 landing with the hill more taxing, even if it had a go-around

You go to a different island.

You're not a pilot obviously.

@@karhukivi I’m an airline pilot with 8,000 hours who has flown into this airport, and you can most certainly go around. Pure clickbait title.

@@SkyWayMan90 you can go around when landing rwy 10 without problems. Trying it on 28 after passing Eden Rock on a hot day with very high DA could be the last thing you do. There's a reason why Eden Rock is called the "decision point"

@@diganwhisky.uruguay There is no mandatory or charted policy. For the vast majority of the time the DA at sea level won’t be an issue for turboprops and even light singles and twins. Full power, accelerate to Vx in ground effect and then begin your climb, and you will clear the terrain straight ahead - all depending on when you begin the go-around of course. Even over the touchdown zone with good skills you should be able to make it out with no issues.

@@SkyWayMan90 You CANNOT go around in short final on RWY 28. ww2.jeppesen.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/TFFJ.pdf

+ELISEO ROMAN Interesting question, but you have to compare apples to apples. I have years of experience as a pilot and in the flight sim so can compare this approach in the sim and real life. Its harder in the flight sim to hit the altitudes and points because of the visibility and the "feel" of the plane. In a sim you're sitting in a chair, in real life you feel every vibration and bump. But in real life there are different up/down drafts, winds, engine rotation factors, etc that take a lot more skill to control. Also psychological reasons, in real life if you make a mistake it might be your last one. So, all things considered, real life flying, especially in a place like St. Barths is a lot tougher.

Ryan Harris its the last safe point to definitely get out, no doubt you can make it even past that point (depending on the plane), just not as safely. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks for the comment, yeah, that was the windsheer right over the hill, you can see the airspeed just dip and come back.

You're very welcome! Ohh ok, I completely understand, thank you so much for explanation! Awesome videos btw