Lands We Don't Play Anymore | EDHRECast 212 

THE BOULDER APPRECIATES THIS PODCAST!

100% agree with the utility lands that have good effects in theory, but in practice are brutally overcosted. On the small note. filter lands are awesome with mana doublers (Mana reflection and nyxbloom ancient).

Let’s take a second to appreciate how fast and accurately he pronounced asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar lol

For those scratching their heads at The Boulder joke, it's an Avatar: The Last Airbender reference

I've started an experiment with running Myriad Landscape in basically all of my decks. I had kind of forgotten about it until the recent Command Zone podcast episode on lands where they mentioned it was the most common colorless-mana-producing utility land that they've run in their Game Knights decks. It has two big strikes against it: it not only taps for colorless but also comes into play tapped...but it does let you add a ramp spell "for free" to your deck, and it's land ramp that goes into any color of deck. That same Command Zone episode also convinced me that I needed to add more lands to most of my decks, so I decided I might as well throw in Myriad Landscape as one of those extra lands.

Tainted wood and Tainted Field are great for decks that only splash the green or white for Disenchant. Only because of the obvious reason of black not having a Disenchant in its toolkit.

I think this topic is a big part of 'the format has gotten faster' Gavony Township is another of those 'just not good enough' anymore. Blighted Woodland feels in the same camp. Spending '5 mana' to ramp once just really doesn't cut the mustard anymore. Temple was great 10 years ago when nothing meaningful happened till everyone had 4-8 mana, and the games would run very long. Now with commanders like Jetmir, you better have a dominant board position by T5-6 to be a dangerous beatdown deck, otherwise a combo deck is going to threaten to kill the table.

THE BOULDER IS HURT THAT MR. MORGAN HAS NEVER HEARD OF HIM.

48:55 - "Effectively having to pay three mana to flash in one card" Matt, you're playing Simic wrong. You don't just flash in one card - you flash in 3-4. And tapping three lands is nothing when you've ramped to 20+.

This is one of your best discussions so far! Partly because you got through the puns portion faster, but, also, the nuances of land selection are super important.

If you want a flash granting effect on a land, go with Emergence Zone. It’s a regular land that taps for mana and also there when you actually need it. It’s unrestricted, the effect cannot be removed once resolved, and it lets you pull off combos outside of main phases. People routinely forget about it too so you can catch people off guard. I have it in every commander deck atm. We’ll see if it makes the cut for Kelsien, there’s a lot of instances in there already. Regarding Opal Palace, you need a commander that can reduce or pay alternative costs for command tax. Someone mentioned Liesa, Shroud of Dusk, but one that I have is Licia, Sanguine Tribune. Her deck is built to only pay RWB no matter how many times I recast her (current record is 3 times in a single turn).

I think for the Snarl based lands the enemy color ones would make it into their two color decks then the ally ones. They haven't made several of the newer cycles into enemy color lands so you don't have a varient of the Battle for Zendicar or the Amoncat lands.

The filter lands that filter into two blue become useful in a blue deck because they can be used to convert a non-blue land into Counterspell mana. I wouldn't say they are spectacular, but I will say that I have had my butt saved more than once by the ability to turn that Mountain into 2U.

I've been tinkering with mono cycle lands in some decks, and I'm liking them. The trick is that if you're playing lean enough on lands so that you'd basically never cycle them, they're garbage, because they're worse basics.

The utility lands I refuse to cut are: Ghost Quarter, Scavenger grounds, and the pain deserts (because of scavenger grounds)! Quarter is just so nice as protection vs coffers nonsense, scavenger grounds is nigh needed if you're not playing a yard deck (as much as it pains me), and the deserts have very low opportunity cost with potential upside! If you've never killed someone who's trying to draw their deck exactly with an Ipnu Riverlet, you've never lived.

I bought the fetchlands when the coof started because I got them in MTGO and they felt great. Recently I played with them in paper and soon after sold them. I do play Temple of the False God because I play Ancient Tomb often and like symmetry. It's been a problem less than 1% of the time I've drawn it, even less now that there's always either Urborg or Yavimaya in play. Both Guildless Commons and Crystal Vein are notably worse. All my decks start with Reliquary Tower, Scavenger Grounds, Wasteland and Strip Mine.

"Good on the budget" explains why most lands I run are in my decks. Expensive lands are my least favorite part of the game.

A niche case, but my most expensive deck intentionally plays filter lands and bounce lands. Once you have a mana multiplier like Mana Reflection or Nyxbloom Ancient, they net you way more mana as the output is doubled or tripled.

The filter lands definitely aren't worth 20+$ but they are very underappreciated. Being able to make 2 colors and colorless mana isn't super easy to find and they come in untapped

It’s interesting seeing these arguments against some of my absolutely favorite budget land cards. As someone who builds almost exclusively budget model bases for his decks, I run quite a few of these in efficient dual lands. Also, opal palace is one of my favorite utility lands. However, I do only run it in two of my decks, because they can take advantage of the plus one counter it gives.

Man, nothing can completely make my head spin more than hearing how other people evaluate lands. I swear to god I've never heard two philosophies that are exactly the same. And when you start comparing the priorities of players from different groups it's frequently not even close.

For context to those who did not get the first two jokes the boulder is a character from Avatar The Last Airbender they are a part of season 2 and help introduce one of the protagonists crew and the Zamboni is the vehicle that is used to redo the surface of ice rings before things like hockey games and other such events

I think of Temple of the False God the same way as Maze of Ith. Maze isn't a land, is a removal spell. Same goes for Temple, is not a land but a ramp spell

On a note about the creature lands, I remember running them all the time, and they were pretty good when I first started and didn't have a lot of card draw in my decks, and was a good thing to do when I had nothing else to cast. But i've gotten better about always keeping my hand relatively full, so they usually just went unactivated in like 99% of games that they just got cut at some point.

Filter lands are fantastic in any deck that has a lot of double-pip mana costs, especially on their commanders. If you want to cast an Ultimatum or activate a Halo Fountain, I recommend them.

One big change I made recently was swapping out Check Lands for Slow Lands. It's far more likely for me to have 2 lands out than to have specific a basic type out consistently, especially in 3+ color decks. I also in general play more basics lately because so many effects my opponents are using come with me fetching a basic (Path to Exile, Tempt, Winds of Abandon, etc.) and my local meta has been banking on the prevalence of greedy multi-colored mana bases to not run enough of them.

The zamboni joke was GOLD!

The tapped fetches are interesting, because while I would hardly run them for manafixing nor landfall, they do have their place still. Mainly for fetching the Eldraine lands (Mystic Sanctuary, Witch's Cottage etc) on a budget for decks that really care about their respective effect. This is preferably done in a multicolor deck, which heavily leans towards the color of the respective land, so that the fetch can manafix you or get you the Eldraine land effect later in the game.

Matt is literally an earthbender but doesn't even remember Earth Rumble VI.

Both their jokes were hilarious! It's only better that neither of them understand each other's

I quite like the old Tainted lands from Torment, dirt cheap, only need a Swamp. So I have grown fond of the duals with basic land types, even if they are always tapped. This leads to a small cascade of looking for ways to fetch these duals. And since my favourite new creature is Perennial Behemoth, the cheap fetch lands like Terramorphic Expanse are handy. While in the dragon deck where very few lands come into play tapped I found Darigaaz Caldera perfect. As I avoid the overprices duals I find quite a lot of cute and useful alternatives all over the place.

Alchemist's Refuge and Winding Canyons are explicitly for decks that run Seedborn Muse. I don't run Winding Canyons in my Seedborn Muse decks anymore though.

Alchemist’s refuge is a control powerhouse. Being able to spend your early turns holding up mana and not being greedy with developing your board gets rewarded when later you can develop your board while also not dieing. Heaven forbid you get to a point in which 3 mana is negligable🙄

The common one-mana cyclers like lonely sandbar are good in pauper commander but I've never considered playing them in EDH outside of specific synergies. Same goes for cards like cave of temptation and opal palace, or really any other common utility land.

The one time I've ever really got to play Alchemist's Refuge it won me the game. Flashed in a Biovisionary on the end step before my turn, then on my actual turn I Demonstrated a Replication Technique with Adrix and Nev on the battlefield to get four Biovisionary tokens and win. Had I played Biovisionary on my turn and let it sit on the table, it would have no doubt been removed before it got back to my turn.

I like the shadow/reveal lands as budget-friendly options that are sometimes untapped. I *was* also under the impression that they worked together alongside other lands that care about basics or land types, such as the tainted lands, check lands, and tango lands. this makes for a nice little budget-friendly mana base. so I've tried to build with this in mind, which has forced me to run a reasonable number of basics, even in a 3-color deck, which is a good thing. I recently cut terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds (but not fabled passage. I don't have prismatic vista FYI) from my Inalla deck to make room for upgrades, but the mana base is also built to support the aforementioned cycles of lands that care about basics or specific land types. I thought I had a level-up moment regarding the basic fetches (I'd previously cut Grixis Panorama too), but now that I look at it, I could cut the Tainted Isle and maybe trim a Swamp. to support the Isle I've skewed the mana base to be more black-heavy compared to the color requirements of the deck. but looking at the change in a vacuum, cutting two untapped lands (Swamp, Tainted Isle) for two tapped lands that only make one color (Evolving, Terramorphic) makes the mana base slower. so I've talked myself out of the basic fetches again. if anyone followed that, I'd be curious on your thoughts on the basic fetches, which until very recently were auto-includes after sol ring, command tower, and arcane signet in 2+ color decks.

If you can find someone way to tap/untap opal palace and use all that mana to cast your commander, it will come in with a number of counters on it equal to it's current mana value times how many times you cast it from your command zone. I think I worded that correctly. I'm aware it would take a lot of resources to make it work, but it's a fun stupid thing that would be cool to see if someone could make it work.

If 👏 it 👏 comes 👏 in 👏 tapped 👏 it 👏 can 👏 get 👏 clapped 👏

The best way to play Dust Bowl is if you WANT specific lands from your deck to get replayed. F.e. I run it in my Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis deck that wants to sacrifice its own lands. The first land that almost always gets sacrificed with my Dust Bowl, is my Mystic Sanctuary. That I can later replay for value. And then sacrifice it again. And replay it. See where this is going?

Filter lands and signet lands are two woefully underappreciated cycles. Signet lands turning mana crypt or sol ring or ancient tomb mana into colored mana has won me a lot of games

1 Joey loved the intro reference. 2 opal Palace is basically the old school way of saying "{t}: put a +1/+1 counter on a commander that entered the battlefield this turn, if it were cast" because the mana cost and produced by its ability cover each other. It just seems worse due to 2013 wording

I run the filter lands in my Jeskai spellslinger deck, but not really in much else. And that's only because the rituals only make red, but I need a lot of blue, so I run everything I could get my hands on that can turn red into not red

I like the Filter Lands, they are particularly good for 2 and 3 color decks where you have a notable amount of cards that require multiple mana of the same specific color. Particularly notable for blue decks that want to run Counterspell and Friends. But yeah, the price point on them is kinda... prohibitive. I was theorycrafting a 5 color deck today, a fun themed little 5 color deck, which would also be pretty cheap... but the problem is, since I want to keep it cheap, I cannot run any of the good dual lands. In a 5 color deck. So half the lands come into play tapped. Which, when trying it out solitaire, has such an absolutely crushing effect on the earlygame. It would be so much better if I replaced the tricolor lands with the newer, fetchable, cyclable ones, and the regular duals with shocklands. But then the deck would go up from 30 bucks to like 200...

I love the cycling lands like Secluded Steppe depending on the color. Probably need some extra deck synergy to make them worth in blue or black but in colors like boros I think they're very helpful. I run 3 cycling lands in my Kemba deck because it helps with flooding and mono white doesn't have a ton of draw so being able to turn a later land draw into something else can be so helpful. They also work well with Sun Titan.

if you're on a budget and in a 2 color deck, the snarl lands perform really well, especially if you're running a lot of basics. I kinda compare them to the fast lands that come in tapped if you have more than 2 lands. You guys have access to all the fetches and all the shocks but the average casual player doesn't.

To mention an obvious one: Bojuka Bog is a tapland that only produces one color and lowers your basic count. I still run it in everything with black including 5 color decks and mono black extraplanar lens decks. Free graveyard hate is just that good. It's often more used like a spell than a land though.

I do think the mono colored green cycle lands are great in mono green. If you're running enough draw, and we all know green is great for doing so, getting mana flooded is an issue. That's why I run both them and MDFC lands.

the monocolor cycle lands are pretty alright im happy with them like with asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar...

I put the MDFC dual lands in a bunch of my decks when they first came out, but I find myself taking them out now because I'd rather have lands that can tap for two colours. Also, Temple of the False God is great in my Gishath ramp deck. If I can't reliably turn it on, something has gone horribly wrong.

I wish that for sessions like this one, you would provide a "decklist" with all the land cards mentioned as no longer played.

Absolutely agree. Immediately thought of Hour of Reckoning for Shorikai.

So what im hearing is, i should be running amulet of vigor often.

I definitely don’t think of myself as an Opal Palace fan, but I run it in my Liesa, Angel of Dusk deck where I can recast Liesa as much as I want, and the counters help me gain life to fund it. Not having a commander tax in mana makes it a lot more viable, but it still doesn’t feel especially strong.

When I make my mana base, I also look at my curve and how competitive the deck is. My curve is important because I can play tapped lands for the turns im usually not going to play anything anyway. Competitiveness is somthing I learned the more untapped lands the better the decks get.

the boulder finds this intro to be a rocky start, but is pleased

Oh, High Market! Gold, 10/10

I think temple of the false god is really good in artifact/vehicle based decks like shorikai/greasefang or jan jansen for sure

I'm only running the mono-colored cycling land for a mono-red deck. Helping get an extra card type for Delirium or adding additional fodder for Underworld Breach, and getting a card to do so, is helpful, especially when I find I'm petering out in card velocity quite frequently. Is it worth the tempo hit, like Dana says? Probably not. There's more than likely better ways to achieve the same goal, but it's a slight synergy that at least works on paper.

Amulet of Vigor makes any tap land amazing as long as you get it early game.

Arcane Lighthouse is one that becomes worse and worse, esp cause ward is actually pretty good ^^. one land that i like is Mikokoro, Center of the Sea. just an additional option to draw cards if your unlucky is insane to get out of your bad situation :D

I never liked the creature lands. But inkmoth I can see still making its way into a deck.

Personally I actually still like running the monocolor cycling lands but I tend to run only 1 or 2 color decks. It probably is the wrong choice but I do value the ability to pitch for a single mana and "reroll" my draw.

The snarl/shadow lands seem amazing in a budget deck or any deck where you're still running quite a few basics.

Inkmoth nexus is actually pretty good in varolz infect deck I have seen it work and, its really interesting

I have one deck that uses creature lands as a staple. It also has ways to make all lands be creatures and spells that can be used if the lands left untapped aren't utilized during opponents turn(s). I use the occasional creature land as a backup for if i have no other creature in play sometimes. Creature lands are useful in destroy all creatures all the F'n time decks. I don't find those decks very fun though TBH.

Two lands that I took out in all of my decks are Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse. Is anyone playing these anymore?

You guys are nuts if you're going to put signet lands over filter lands. Signet lands can be dead draws earlier on or if you mistap mana. Filter lands come in untapped and can give you a wide swath of mana options. Signets only give you one of each. I only put signet lands in if I've got nothing better for untapped nonbasics.

I will never understand the temple of the false gods hate

okay so besides the usual fetchlands/color fixers such as Myriad Landscape, Evolving wilds/terramorphic expanse, the fetchlands I own, I typically use a small list of utility lands in most of my decks. I do avoid stuff like Opal Palace unless I care about my commander's power being larger, and Study hall is good but it's a bit slow. Path of ancestry comes to mind as a usual include, as it still produces colored mana despite entering tapped i'll play it in most multicolored decks. Im also a huge fan of Field of Ruin over Ghost Quarter, the card advantage math works out better in my opinion (you're not down a land and same with the player you hit with the field if they're not you, so if everybody has the same amount of lands you're only down a land compared to two opponents instead of three like with GQ.

What's the best way to challenge the stats.

The filter lands are not top tier, but still better than checklands. Especially in red and black where they can convert ritual bursts of single colored mana. If you have effects like that, or need colorless mana, they're really good. Otherwise they're still like checklands but with slight upsides.

I will use the Slow Fetches if I am in a 3 or more color deck, because I use the original Dual lands, and a Slow Fetch will allow me to go find 1 of 3 different Dual lands.

The slow fetches aren’t too bad in Archelos

Vedalken Orrery - the most impactful card to do absolutely nothing!

opal palace is a must run in marchesa.

Hard disagree on filter lands, Oddysey ones are basically unplayable if not bound by budget, and Shadowmoor ones are great at fixing colours as pips get more specialised for higher powered cards, especially when things in white and blue often require a lot of pips. If not for cost of allied colour ones I would use them wherever possible if for 2 and 3 colour decks.

Flagstones is underrated.

55:16 I can totally see Matt being mad at Joey, at least until he plays his 5th land…

Homeward Path being free to activate always bothered me.

That’s some pretty strong thoughts on the Shadowmoor/Eventide filter lands. I still prescribe to the line of thought from Lorwyn-Alara Standard days of fixing to cast the uber-color-intensive Ultimatums. I feel, still very relevant in 2-color decks & even more-colored decks which you know is skewed heavy towards a color pair, especially if desired in early stages of game. Case in view - Rugged Prairie & buddies r definitely must haves for my Marath, Will of the Wild.dec. Heck, for my preference, I even include the 2 Odyssey “signet” lands here, to help ensure very consistent turn 3 Commander. + Mystic Gates & buddies have even shown up in the most recent pre-cons. So have at them! Granted, if budget is still a concern, sure just make appropriate plans for alternative fixing. Efficacy still shouldn’t lag too far

Don't worry Joey, the ATLA fans got your joke lol

If reliquary tower is good in your deck, then the deck is bad. It's okay to have lower power decks, but if you've optimized your deck having the best 7 cards out of a large number will be just as good as having them all in hand.

The rocky tar pit, Mountain valley and Grasslands cards can be OK if you have an Amulet of Vigor. Maybe only if you have an Amulet of vigor TBH. Remotely somewhat useful if you have that one creature that gets a plus one for each different land type you control

I am forever sad about dust bowl. It really should be a desert! If it was a desert itd be great in hazezon desert decks which love sacrificing desert lands for recurrable value. It should be a desert land!!

Temple of the False God is a decent ramp spell in non-green, it's not a land.

If a land comes into play tapped it'd better do something incredible or it's absolute garbage

I'm sorry, but you are all wrong about filter lands. They are some of the best lands to have in your opening hand. A hand of Swamp Sunken Ruins and a reliquary tower will allow me to cast Counterspell, Sign In Blood, Phyrexian Arena, and so many MANY other cards that require 2 mana pips. Swamp and Sunken Ruins is Counterspell mana. And even for those that don't play counterspells, you are so much more freedom to cast your spells when you have a filter land in the early game. Late game it might not be as good, but very few lands are.

I can't take Dana seriously anymore, he's way too tan, which means he's been outside and not playing Magic all the time!

I disagree with Matt, the worst stairs are the ones that spiral out of control. I’ll leave now.

One deck Opal Palace may shine is in Rograkh+Ardenn, since the 0 mana commander can be recast a few times without hassle.

Wining canyons is pretty sweet in Nikya decks

Just a correction about slow fetches. While they enter tapped, the land they fetch for enters normally. So you loose one turn of tempo, similar to an Evolving Wilds, but you can fetch non-basics. I feel like if any deck wants fetches badly enough to run Evolving Wilds/Teramorphic Expanse they should consider the slow fetches too.

That opening was gold 🤣 Btw, Joey sounding sexy!

Please do a pull about the "Reveal / Snarl Lands". I play the "Reveal / Snarl Lands" in all my two colored Decks. Never in Decks that have more colors. Even in my High Power Decks, but not in my Cedh Decks. Most of the time they come into play untapped. In my Experience in about 90 percent of the time, but maybe i am just very lucky. Do anyone know the math / probability about these entering the battlefield tapped? Also I play not many tapped Lands in general, that could also be a factor.

With May the 4th so close to this airing. Im surprised theres no joke on Disney missing out on a month instead of a day... Imperial March.

Nice "haircut Daina!

3 Treasures = 1 Black Lotus. Just sayin

Maybe the hour long opening is why this only has 30k videos after this manh months...

haha! Budget? YOU MEAN PROXIES

I get that these are lands that YOU don't play anymore but i think most players are budget players and these come into play tapped duals are necessary for color diversity. What is the cost minded alternative? basics? Spending $10 on a shock land is a luxury and not one i want to support in general. Im only commenting because i find in most episodes you promote that striving for the 'optimal' cards are not a necessity, and the reality is that these tapped lands are completely fine to include.