Non-Americans underestimate how dangerous and uncomfortable US roads are for cyclists in many regions of the country. Auto speeds are very high, vehicles are massive, and there is a greater chance of drivers having anti-cyclist and aggressive behavior. Gravel relieves these problems pretty well. The aesthetic of gravel fashion mirrors the nature/camping style popular with US suburban outdoor enthusiasts too.
Spot on. I normally ride in northern germany and once visited Seattle area and rode a bit with some friends and even for an outdoorsy state/area it was just a totally different feel on the road. Not always bad but a little intimidating for sure.
There's also so many service roads in the US that really lend themselves to gravel riding. Over here you most likely will encounter more of a 50/50 ratio with managed forests, gravel roads and single/doubletrack. Even just counting national parks that's already 7-8 times the area of our whole country for example. Quite mindblowing the amount of space there is for gravel riding.
That is true in urban areas but not so true in rural areas. I grew up in Northern Maine and road a thirty mile loop from town to town and saw a car maybe once every 45 minutes. I now live in the DC metro area which is quite different but am fortunate enough to live two miles from the WO&D bike trail. The only thing I have to worry about is the occasional deer or bunny rabbit running in front of me and an occasionally clueless pedestrian walking or jogging in the middle of the bike path.
definitely true in general that off-road avoids the obvious risk of being hit by a car - that applies everywhere. Off-road you can get to more unusual places and go exploring more... plus I find going off-road means you don't get hung up on your power/speed numbers like you can when riding on-road - cos let's face it the numbers are pretty irrelevant off-road
LR is kicking it! LR and Katie Kookaburra are the top 2 most successful cycling channels Ive helped coach up from day 1. Great to see their rapid rise!
Best commentator ever was on Norwegian television and his name is Johan Kaggestad. He commentated the Tour de France for 20 yrs, and we can thank him for making cycling popular in Norway. In the months ahead of the race, he read himself up on the cities and areas etc of the parcour to learn about the history and people living there, that it was listening to a storyteller. You learned so much. And of course he new everything about every rider in the race, about their family and where they lived. And the history of the Tour de France, where he told stories about legendary stages and riders.. Sadly he had to retire a couple of years ago due to illness. Alexander Kristoff payed him a tribute, for inspiring him as a cyclist and making cycling popular in Norway. Absolut legend commentator: Johan Kaggestad.
I cant wait for the LRCP live shows during the Tour. I loved muting the normal commentators and syncing the audio with the LRCP for the stages you guys did during the Giro! The world needs more of that.
1:26:03 I just realized that I would watch / listen these fellas talk for hours even if the topic wasn't cycling. This bit is pure gold, I cried laughing. You all have great talent and definitely make my two favorite channels. Keep it up, boys 👍🏻
we have an outside velodrome in Rock Hill SC (well maintained!) that gets very few trackies. road racing is pretty dead. city also has a closed 1.1 mile crit circuit that gets local races, but not many USAC events. i think between 10-20 years ago cat 3-4-5 riders got fed up getting 10-15mile races for $30 or so, and basically subsidized pro-1-2. “screw this” said everyone.
I've always looked up to Chris when he was running his race team, but I couldn't muster up the patience to follow his vlogs back then. This format is much easier to follow regularly.
A really important thing to consider about gravel's popularity in the USA is the safety element of it. Road riding in the US is extremely coastal and the infrastructure is not set up to train on the road safely. As such, the opportunity to get into gravel and to prioritize safety in the USA just is much higher than road riding--in both training and racing. It is an unfortunate reality, but it is the case. Another thing to consider is that gravel culture, *at the moment*, appears much more approachable. Road racing in North America seems very elitist and aggressive. It is not advertised as something you can enjoy and have a beer with friends afterwards. It has a very macho/hyper-masculine presentation here. Gravel is the opposite. It is advertised as a way to satisfy your taste for adventure, to have beer with friends afterwards, etc etc.
Safety. Approachability. The fact that anyone can enter a gravel race and still get something personal out of it even if they're not competing to win, since 99.99% of us can't. The road elitism. I mean, even in the media space who would you rather hang out with? VC seems like a cool dude. Jesse here oozes elitism and has a perpetual stick up his ass. On equipment: I can buy a gravel bike, even a gravel race bike, and its still useful for other things. I commute on the same bike I raced this spring. Its just better.
Benji you need to make a video on how to wash your bike. Another idea I have for a good video is where you clean your bike. And then maybe to follow it up you can make one about getting your bike nice and shiny. Get those GCN-level clicks!
My engagement with this podcast is through the roof, the only cycling pod that has me agreeing/arguing out loud with them in the car. Love LRCP too but they usually just end up costing me gambling money :D
Great edition! I remember when LR came to me for advice on how to start up a career as a youtuber back in 2017. We got his channel started up Norton Summit. I told him to quit his job as a lawyer and follow my advice. He did and look at him go now!!!
Self deprecation goes a long way fellas. That’s something that Tyler (VC) and Dylan both give their viewers. Sometimes, the only new material in Dylan’s video is him describing how he made an error in one area or another. And OMG, Tyler just lays himself bare with all of his misfortunes on those Impossible Route videos. It’s genuine and people really like that.
As others have said, I’m also really enjoying the partnerships you now have with other creators. Please continue doing what you’re doing and I hope that further success comes your way. Being honest with your opinions is so important and is one of the reasons I continue to watch. “Mainstream” media is becoming so boring and watered down, you are all bucking that trend and it’s great to see. Cheers 🍻
Another cracking episode lads, way better use of LR's time compared to last time they were on the pod. Huge kudos from LR at ~38:18 and Love the 'hobby you two are doing for fun...' ~38:25
Two core appeals of gravel riding for myself and watching things like unbound. It's not a team sport. Pro cycling is a team sport and I love it. But I relate better to gravel because it's up to them. To get to the end, to eat , to fix the bike it's all on the rider. That's how most of us ride, so we relate to that. No team pulls or cars, that's not our world. As an older guy I see older guys doing it as well. The other appeal is nature. I'm happy with nature around me than cities. That said, 50% of my riding or more is city. I just wish it wasn't.
Chris and Jesse, I feel like you guys need to plan a US trip. Hopefully you can collab in person with a few creators, time around it a big gravel event, like sea otter, and even crush an Alviso since as Jesse said "the field looks weak". I think it would be super interesting to get your takes on these events across the world. Thanks for continuing the great work in the podcast, loved the collab with Patrick and Benji
Great job again guys, you're killing it. Few observations: 1. Ayuso is going to be a real deal contender in the next 2-3 seasons, the guys a machine. 2. How big a flop do you think TdF unchained could have been if Pog, who wasn't in it, had won? 3. Jesse and Chris, get out there racing again and give us some day in the life stuff. But not walking across mud roads of Kansas.
28:50 Gravel Salaries, $350k is what Colin Strickland was reported to be on before his Unbound win. There was all this chat about him riding for EF/Garmin for €20k. Granted Colin was on the Red Bull sponsorship money.
@@matthewbenger8355 Maybe that was his take home pay. Possibly the $350k, I quoted, was the annual budget. I think I heard the $350k on TrainerRoad a good few weeks ago.
Fabio Jakobsen could not sprint for victory on the Champs Elysees in 2022 because of a dropped chain in the last right corner. Yet, no one thinks that Dura Ace Di2 2x12 is not race worthy or there is any problem with 2x drivetrains.
I think the commentators hold back on critiquing the women's races because they are aware that it has lower viewership and they don't want to suggest that it is inferior or amateurish in any way. They are basically protecting interest in the sport.
Brilliant chat with the 4 of You. 12 months ago I didn’t rate gravel - since then I’ve owned 2 gravel bikes ! Fully invested in the lifetime GP and enjoy hitting the trails. Still a roadie but as a reformed MTBer the gravel is just the right amount of dirt . Keep it up lads
50:13 this section about content. What Benji and GCN realize, is there is always a new stream of dentists getting midlife crises and need new content. When they search the content and see something is 5 years old, they ignore it. Add to that, the algo itself has a terrible recency bias. Personally I think the best content should be what comes up, but alas, the algo will almost always push the newer stuff. So maybe Jesse should rethink his stance. Also Jessie can copy NorCal - couch to crit series, and train up a willing participant, I don't know we could call it, Getting Schumzy from Cat 5 to Elite.... Just an idea
This was the best episode yet. Love the vibe between you guys! Also: I was a gravel-skeptic myself until I tried racing on gravel. It's just awesome, and nothing like mtb. I can't explain why, but it's most likely the combination of road-cycling speed with experiencing nature more, like it's still racing but kind of more relaxed and fun.
I really like to watch race vids like NorCal and Jasper Verkuijl. But maybe it's because I race myself and I find it motivating to watch the power and race tactics and I use it in my own racing (in Belgium as "Nieuweling" like U17). It's my first year racing and the field is really competitive (always top 20 and once top 10 out of an avarage of 80 riders but in the big races it is 120 riders) but I can keep up really easy but I ride the cheapest bike of the bunch( a ridley helium sl 2012or 2013) and I'm one of the only guys with no trainer. I do just rides when I feel like it. Usually I ride around 11 hours when I have school now it's less because of the exams but in the vacation I will ride again.
The Aussie commentary on the Australian Nats road race last year was very good, I recall a running gag about one rider with so much salt on him, he could supply chip shop takeway at the finish line! 🤣
Great show fellas. Can’t wait for LRCP stage recaps in a couple of weeks. Good discussion about the financial side of being a content creator. I especially liked the discussion about creating in person content. Jesse should become Benji’s coach to complete the circle.
Haven’t watched yet, but so excited! Been an LR listener since 2021 season, found Nero because LR was on recently. Glad I found Nero. I have been listening through all the episodes during my daily rides!
I enjoyed the Netflix show. I liked hearing from the riders and seeing more of what I already saw during the race. I'm just a fan of pro cycling so like to watch most any of these types of films. I regularly watch LR and now I'll watch Nero, too!
27:10 LR with hits the nail on the head. Road cyclists in the US got sick of being threatened by someone in a truck every 3rd ride. It's just easier to take it to trails, go a little slower, and ride that style instead.
I'm a Brit living in Antwerp and speak somewhat fluent Dutch and almost all sports podcasts/programmes here are solely focused on Belgians. If a Belgian is playing in a PL match you will know what breakfast he had. Evenepoel would have won the Giro with two fingers up his nose. It's all so myopic and reactionary. I secretly love it when Belgians fail because it forces the commentators to talk about something else. I guess that's part of living in a small country.
Benji's training journey videos are way more relatable and informative than Norcal Cycling 2. Norcal Cycling 2's videos are interesting for a different reason, it's just kind of fun to see someone with elite-level genetics crushing it. (I think it's a little disingenuous of Norcal Cycling to use EJ's content to sell his "couch to crit" training plan though, since it's marketed towards your average viewer but 99.9% of us wouldn't get anything close to the same gains and fitness as EJ even if we did the exact same training.)
I'll echo what was said. Where I live in the US, there is zero road Fondo/racing scene. Gravel? Oh I got all sorts of choices all through the year! Long live gravel. I think it's a lot easier to organize in the rural areas where they take place.
Love the podcast, I agree that people that are afraid to question tactics, however that is one that I love about Chris Horner, he calls out what he thinks are errors in tactics.
Some perspective. I follow major tour and grand tour, and a big fan of the big name and team..I follow the LRCP and Chris Horner religiously after every stage..but I do enjoy the Netflix series, it makes me give more attention to smaller team like FDJ or AG2R instead of just focusing on Pog, Rog, Jonas, WVA etc
the thing about gravel is that, yes it opens up more possibilities to many, ie adventures, new events, some from the road scene might get enticed, but some might not, the guys in Malaysia where im at, most of the guys riding gravel now, are those who rode fixed gear a decade ago, so not just the bike itself, but also the culture. the guys who are into performance, are not into gravel tho, they purely on the road, gravel here are for those who seek adventures. the only thing we lack here is wide gravel roads like the ones in the US. hence u can see events popping up like mushroom in US as that is what enticed them, riding area availabilities, municipal cooperations, and also big brands who are into organizing the events. other factor for gravel scene here is bikepacking and bikecamping, but then there is still no one who wants to organize a ultra-bikepacking event over here. just some insight from the scene here. but road cycling still going on tho, but mostly the covid cyclists who are still active
It's crazy to me that cycling is something that literally EVERYONE does, in one form or another. Part of growing up is learning to ride a bicycle. Everyone who plays football, soccer, tennis, golf, baseball and basketball, has a bicycle of some sort. Virtually none of those people care about any type of racing. I can't figure it. I've got friends who do the Tuesday Night Worlds, here in Northwest Arkansas, and those dudes chain gang it HARD, but I'd bet that 90% of them don't keep up with World Tour racing, other than the Tour. I live in the "Mountain Bike Capital of The World", and we've got some badass mtn bikers, and the majority of them couldn't tell you about the XCO World Cup... I feel like cycling is a "doer's" sport, as opposed to all the others being ultimately "viewer's" sports. Sure, you played baseball in high school, but the majority of people buying the Officially Licensed Merchandise from their favorite MLB team haven't thrown a ball since... and the same goes for all the other sports. While people into American Football spend the week getting ready to spend the weekend on the couch watching the games, cyclists spend the week looking forward to getting out there and riding. I don't know how to change that, and it's obvious that no one else does either, but guarantee you I know more people who have, and ride bicycles than I know people who actually play all the other sports combined. Great content guys! Keep killing it Benji!
it's pretty simple -- where are the grade and high school level cycling teams, and where is the money? In the U.S. neither really exist, it's more common to see hockey than cycling.
@@miatomi Absolutely, but, each of those hockey kids have a bike. Where I live, we do have mtn bike "teams" in our bigger schools, so hopefully that grassroots seeding that's happening now will mature into people who enjoy viewing cycling in the future.
You are so right about « doers » VS « viewers » in other sports. When I started cycling in my mid 30s, I didn’t know shit about world tours pros etc. And I’m French. You vaguely hear about some names of some winners that’s it. Then I became OBSESSED with cycling, training just to get better, Strava addict etc and started watching a bit of Pro Cycling. So I was a DOER first and became a little bit of a VIEWER. As opposed to the NBA that I watch (go Denver Nuggets!!) but never play anymore. Most people in France who are crazy about soccer never play soccer.
surely you've got to admit cycle racing is generally a pretty boring specator sport? as menioned elsewhere - this may be influenced by the fact it's not a school sport. e.g. i think most of the sports you menion are also pretty boring , but i don't mind watching test cricket (a notoriously boring sport) as it was something i grew up with. i can handle an hour highlights of a grand tour, but that's as far as my interest goes (the ebb and flow of grand tours aligns well with the genre of test cricket boring!) PS your theory is also kind of like saying EVERYONE drives a car (and everyone speeds!), so everyone should like motor racing???
@@chiefwarmpaws Ha! I totally get what you're saying, and I pretty much think you're correct. I was just pointing out that I've always found it odd that something virtually everyone does, is so hard to market through the "professional cyclist/racing" side of the equation. And, I totally agree that unless you're really into it, cycling is boring to watch, but then, baseball, soccer, golf all are total snoozers, unless your invested in them in one way or another. I am a whitewater kayaker, and I think it's the most beautiful, dynamic, amazing sport there is, but watching paddling videos just doesn't translate to people who've never done it. Going to a freestyle competition is boring! The doing just doesn't translate into the viewing! I also think your point about car drivers and car races. To me that makes way more sense to me than playing football in high school and then being a football nut the rest of your life. I find cycling races compelling because I know how 300/400/ 600 watts feel like, and am amazed by seeing the power numbers of the pros. It makes it real and tangible to me.
small note on the golf comparison, ironically enough LIV didn't exactly buy their way into the Masters. The Masters is the only major event in pro golf that is not associated with the PGA. It is privately owned by the country club itself. That's why when the PGA initially banned LIV players from playing in their tournaments, the LIV guys still came to the masters.
What were Jumbo-Visma thinking indeed?!?!? My first thought when I saw those black jerseys 🙄 Unless there’s some fancy fabric tech that I don’t know about built into them that can help regulate temperature.
Thanks guys! Jessie, you need a warmer light. Your light is cold and corporeal. By comparison, it makes you look less healthy! Looks like the office from 'joe vrs the volcano'
Random observation about cycling in Belgium an why it's so popular (maybe a bit of a chicken and egg story). I live across an elementary school and since spring has started I see kids riding their bikes all the time. These are five year olds racing, avoiding obstacles, slaloming, .. during their school time :D And because they need their bike, many will come to school by bike. And when they go to highschool, going by bike is just the obvious option. And our colleges are often in big historical cities so once again cycling is the obvious choice! Just a thought because I get happy when I see these little ones racing their bikes :D Edit: now they are actually learning to ride in a peloton. I'm dying!
Benjis GEN Z style content and theme is pretty cool take on the 'new rave' cycling scene. That gamified Breakway app he uses too reminds me of some Blade Runner stuff especially with the colouring.
