As a non-native English speaker, I learn new words every time I watch your videos! Today I learnt the words: remiss and dichotomy. :) Thank you Aaron! Informative video as usual.
@@hakanayayes he said it in the video lol. Livewire handles every single part of the JS without writing js. All ajax requests are handled under the hood.
Yeah, i think the devspace is super poluted with absolutes. I always thought of tech in general as a toolkit to solve problems. I don't care which tool fits the best, i just use the one i know solves the problem the best way and try to learn new tools regularly.
@@jordixboy Yep, my mantra is "Don't get yourself bullied". If you can't work outside of a framework to get sh* done when sh*t hits the fan, you're a script kiddie and nothing else.
This is so great! You are such a good advocate for PHP. Please keep doing what you're doing! Just let people use what works for them. I've had a bit of JS burnout lately and so I've gone back to using PHP but I've gone ultra minimalist this time with zero JS on the front-end and even using a classless CSS framework that is literally just a "drop-in and forget" solution to styling. I'm using good ol' Smarty to render HTML in PHP and the resulting HTML (with zero JS and zero CSS classes) is just so incredibly pure and simple. Admittedly, you do sacrifice A LOT by not having any JS on the front-end but the simplicity is so freeing! I'm getting features done faster than I ever have before. It's awesome!
Dev with >15 years experience. Your content is refreshing man. Both the positivity but also technical knowledge is greatly appreciated. You’re getting me a ton more interested in php and laravel. I only knew PHP from old Zend days… insane updates. Quickest tech YTer subscribe in awhile 🎉
Using the term "center-stack framework" to describe recent JS frameworks is so good. I've been writing a lot of SvelteKit recently and wondered why the backend functionality seemed so sparse, even though it's often called full-stack. Definitely looking into Laravel for my next project.
I mean if I am starting a new project, I personally prefer to not to mix backend and frontend. It's always better to create an API and connecting front and back together, this way in the future you can build mobile apps using the same backend, you can hire easier since you are using mainstream tools and framework (i. e. Vue, React) instead of finding people who know edge cases. There are hundreds of reason why not to do this, but it may be a good for some edge cases.
As someone who is not a professional developer (I know some JS and a little bit of React), this is such a great overview of all the different parts that make up web app development! Like pieces of a puzzle coming together. Thank you Aaron!
Hey Aaron, I've been using Inertia for a few months now, and I gotta say it's a joy to work with. It's really minimal in a sense that it gives you the basic Laravel/React bridge + some pretty nice utility components, such as InertiaLink. It doesn't make you dependent on itself, like a framework would, so you're still writing React/Vue/Svelte code.
Great video! It makes it very very easy to understand the whole eco system and describe what is what, where it belongs and what's it's role it for someone like me who is new and doesn't know what all these technologies are.
Thanks for posting. I'm a PHP dev looking to explore something newer/cutting edge, and this helps me on the right path. Tying together Laravel and React is going to make me such a powerful developer.
I've never understood why? Why, if you have available all of the periphenalia in Laravel itself, would you want to add more javascript just for the sake or the snappy-ness? What is exactly wrong with "old school" approach of building web apps? I don't get it.
I personally love Livewire. It's pretty easy to start the first demo for clients. I don't have to mess up with building back-end API or fetching API in front-end. All I need is just Livewire components Of course, I also use React, Vue or sometime Angular. It depends on requirements and many other reasons. It doesn't have to be this tool or that tool. It's how we mix up and make it works for our clients!
inertia js is the key, Laravel solid backend with queues, validation, authentication, MVC, support multiple db connection it could be mysql and mongodb or etc
Hey Aaron. Have you ever asked Taylor and others why jetstream starter kit does not ship with inertia and react? I really like having that option as well as breeze.
I learned a lot from this video and gained some clarity on a problem we are currently facing with one of our projects. Our team worked on a project that uses Laravel as the API backend and Vue2/Nuxt2 as the frontend. With the release of Nuxt3, there have been significant changes, and we are struggling to decide how to keep the project updated without rewriting the entire codebase. Since all of the developers on our team are fluent in Vue.js, we still want to use it as the frontend framework. After initial discussions, we are leaning towards using Laravel + Inertia + Vue, but we are open to any other suggestions. Any input is highly appreciated.
Wasn't it so from ages? Where the backend could be able to generate initial HTML page and then serve the browser? I guess when ReactJs first came, it wanted to push "everything frontend" but nowadays realized, some stuffs are for the backstage. Sveltekit pioneered this onset and I love its implementation.
Wonderful video overall but I think the default MVC Laravel diagram contradicts your definition. If frontend is code that runs on the client, then Blade is not frontend even if it is UI programming. I think MVC Laravel doesn't have a chasm, it's just that all the UI work is done through HTML responses. So that templating engine part you mentioned is actually part of the Network layer and very much the exact model of how websites used to be, hence Multi Page Applications and HyperText Transfer Protocol. You're completely correct about the rest though: with network-driven UI that doesn't reach into frontend capabilities, you can only do forms and links as far as interactivity goes, and more interactive Singe Page Applications necessitate client-side React/JavaScript.
This also goes for Next.js, Nuxt, Remix, ... They all do server-side rendering and send the HTML over the network. It's simply the most efficient way of sending HTML to a client. Since thats what the protocol was designed for in the first place.
Can someone elaborate more about the network part? Does laravel route while rendering blade file, can also pass data directly from database model? Or is it something else entirely?
I’ve been developing apps in Laravel from 2015 to about a year ago. It does fill a huge need but I think the deployment picture still isn’t fully developed at least not in tandem with the JavaScript world.
Yep, I use a combination of Laravel and React, without making it a single page application, but instead having a react build for every module in the application, which I then link statically.
@@aarondfrancis Yeah, I have created a webpack builder that outputs multiple react builds at once, one for each module in my app. The react framework itself is a separate file, since it's shared between them and it should be cached only once. Like that I also manage to keep my bundle size small and fast per page, and the users probably don't navigate through each module all the time for everything to be loaded at once.
can you explain what sorts of interactivity react or vue provides that would be worth the extra setup? I'm not a FE developer, but so far I've been able to accomplish most everything I need with laravel and livewire, though still struggling with some parts. I don't know when I should consider alternatives such as react or vue with inertia and I hate having to keep learning new tech stacks when i still havent mastered Laravel itself. It'd be great if I had examples of what these tools are actually good for opposed to alternatives? Perhaps some samples of interactive components being built with the 3 systems (vue, react, livewire) to gauge speed and complexity of getting things set up?
Honestly I think you can get as far as you need to go with Livewire and a bit of Alpine. Only the most complex frontends would need Vue or React at this point
actually would be great if Laravel had some sort of RPC library to communicate with frontend, like Livewire without templating or Inertia without routing. That way you could pair Laravel with any frontend without need for specific adapters
@@aarondfrancis there is nothing ready made. we are using Next frontend, Expo mobile app with Laravel backend and sort of stitch it together with laravel data and typescript transformer by spatie, so its kinda typesafe end to end but still requires a lot of boilerplating with setting up controllers, frontend->backend fetch calls etc. basically works as proof of concept but would be nice if laravel had something that wraps it all up with nice api, would be great win for ecosystem IMO
@aarondfrancis Sounds like a concept I hacked around some time ago. const component = useComponent('edit-product) component.product.name = 'Updated value' component.save()
on the subject of PHP. Last time I programmed with PHP you needed either XAMPP or MAMP to run your PHP code. Is this still the only method to run your PHP application or has PHP modernized where you can run it independently without XAMP or MAMP? Haven't used PHP in a while maybe things have changed?
Nah you can run it normally. Mac has PHP built in, but you can use homebrew to get multiple versions. My personal recommendation would be using Laravel Herd at herd.laravel.com. I have a video on that here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sY2A6AGF5os.html
@@aarondfrancis Thanks for the recommendation! I will try this on my mac. I also program on a Linux distro known as Cinnamon Mint which is Debian based. I will look online I am pretty sure if mac has this most likely there is something out there for Linux, thanks once again.
Can someone please explain why is laravel a powerful backend and nextjs is not ? I've seen that schema before (4:33) but I don't really understand what laravel has that can't be done with Nextjs
I've been developing with Laravel and Vue/React for over 4+ years now but I have to admit, I have never used Inertia. Something about it just seems hard to get into, so if there's a great (and free) course on it, I'd love to know :)
I'm almost exclusively a React dev, but followed you from the ashes of Planetscale. I am trying to understand the benefits you claim for using Laravel in addition to Next.js but I am yet see what issues it is solving. It feel more a preference bias than any actual value to me (and I am no doubt biased myself). What am I missing? For me, I always hated the MVC structure and OOP classes just breaks my brain with option paralysis. I feel so much happier and productive with Reacts more co-located and small declarative functions style of architecture .
From the ashes 😂 I think the benefit to using Laravel behind Next.js is that you get the power of auth, queues, database migrations, ORM, models, mail, cron, etc etc without having to piece together a bunch of packages in your own way. So your model layer works perfectly with your queued job layer works perfectly with your auth works perfectly... you get it!
@@aarondfrancis I think my confusion is that my stack seems to make these redundant. I am m yet to really need models, migrations, ORM, cron jobs etc. I quite like the ability to pick and choose my tooling I guess.
@@JohnBuildWebsites Thank you so much! I try not to be dogmatic! I love Laravel, but it's definitely not a requirement and there are lots of other good options
im almost a year using php without no knowledge in frameworks like laravel. zero knowledge with react and vue too but i really wanna expand my knowledge but idk how to start.
@@aarondfrancis Oops, I'll make sure to watch the video till the end then lol 🙂 Kinda stopped watching it when you said Laravel vs React is a false dichotomy. I completely agree with this statement. Figured you will be talking about how to use React and Laravel together.
@@aarondfrancis okay that's a good point. I'm nowadays using Nextjs with Supabase. But maybe I should try Laravel just to see what I'm missing out. I was a PHP developer in the past, maybe this can be a great way to pick it up again. Thanks for the vid 💯
Because if you use Next you will eventually need 10 SaaS subscriptions to cover it's missing backend functionalities. There's a reason you are using Supabase. Supabase is your actual backend, NextJS is just a proxy for it.
@@aarondfrancis I had the opinion that the main Laravel approach is based off using strict schemas, is that wrong? I would very much prefer to use something like Mongoose. Are the common tools most Laravel developers are using build with this option in mind?
@@aarondfrancisThank you for helping me understand this, Aaron! So I guess i would have to be able to bend the framework quite a bit to make this work for me, and might be better off just working with Nuxt, until I am more happy working with relational dbs. Would you agree?
That's how they get ya! Next isn't really a full stack framework. It can just run some stuff on the server. You still gotta figure out DB, Auth, ORM, etc etc etc
@@aarondfrancis yeah it needs to use many libraries to create a full stack web apps in nextjs for example you can choose serverless database depends on what you want same as authentication etc.
I would like to have a conversation with you around Laravel+Next.js, focused on identifying and resolving "understanding" barriers between backend and frontend teams at an organisational level. I know you wouldn't have time to do this (considering you have a zillion things to do), but I'd really like to pick your brain. I so wish it could happen some day.
Nextjs solves seo and performance by rendering html from the server and hydrating client side interactive code from react, this makes your website have a good seo and performace but the way laravel works with react, even by bridging the network gap, still seo will be hit hard because the fronted will still be pure react.
So what you mean is that inertia hydrates php server side html to react via inertia which is then prerendered with react interactivity , thats cool, i guess it will be somehow slow as to me inertia looks like a really different layer that sits between react and php which are 2 different languages, unlike how next solves it without a middle layer like inertia because javascript is able to run on the server and frontend.
I don't like inertia cause every routes is a backend request... doesn't matter if it's a page like the about page which will never change and doesn't needs to be fetched every time but inertia just forces it
Inertia is a great tool but unfortunately it seems like its not currently maintained. They should invest in it more, as it may offer so many more features.
@@aarondfrancis Yeah true, but it's not being maintained as it used to be. And from i see in the github repo's tasks management, there's alot to work on but nothing so far.
Do you guys still need “XAMP” to run it? I am exploring Payload CMS because the beta versions is now fully interacted with NextJS and that means being able to deploy it with SST. Unlimited scalability. The entire thing can run as an edge function.
