I just discovered this on my own by accident during warm-ups. When I pulled my elbows in and did the horizontal movement he's talking about (touching lower on the chest and pushing back), weight that seemed heavy before suddenly seemed light. It's an incredible discovery. Try it.
I’ve had a similar experience. I used to push heavy weights with brute force and poor technique and started having wrist and shoulder discomfort. Then I discovered this and practiced with lighter weights for several months and then recently tried to max out again and my max went up by almost 20 pounds and NO shoulder or wrist pain 😍 Chris Duffin is my go to when I have questions about technique.
One very important thing to note: a lot of this activation is possible once you learn how to flex the lats and the deltoids. It takes a lot of training to be able to grow the lats and then flex them properly
Ty for the response, I will def incorporate this into my training. Just hit 315 which has been a big mile stone for me. Can't wait to see how much more this technique will do for me. Thx again.
I was literally just practising this on my dining room chair, and it's safe to say I can feel my lats now that I've finished, so thank you for these tips. Externally Rotating the shoulder on a movement where your hands are fixed always kind of confused me, but you helped a lot to make me understand. So thank you!
Hey Chris, thanks so much for all the info you put out. Between you, Ed Coan, and Mike Tuchscherer, my understanding has grown exponentially. Thanks again!
It's easy to over-train pressing movements (shoulders and elbow pain) but it seems like you can never train lats and upper back too much. I can't recall seeing a big bencher that didn't have a thick back.
This video is excellent. Thank you for such a fantastic demonstration. Now I have something to show guys that insist I'm wrong that the lats can be used to drive a bar off the chest in the bench.
I read somewhere that for every upper body pressing movement you should be doing twice as much pulling. Seems like this video confirmed that for me. Time to double my pull ups and rows.
I completed a few mathematics/physics degrees in the last 10 years. I really enjoy watching Chris' videos. It's clear that he puts some intelligence into his lifting and technique, as well the new bar construction (very good example of continuum mechanics -- might use that video for future classes or tutorials). I was actually surprised that this video doesn't have 10 times as many views. It's these sorts of intricate details in a lift that set people apart -- at least, from the perspective of someone training under a good coach. Maybe people just want quick solutions without having to think too much. I'm not sure.
Daniel Ogburn I agree. I’m the same except I’m more biology and nursing but love watching physics lectures for fun (Richard Feynman, Walter lewin, Brian Cox, etc). This guy is great. Love the terminology and evidence lol.
" I can take 6 months off from benching and come back and hit a PR" from heavy lat work-----wow!~ I heard this --mulled it over many 100 times chewed on the idea then finally ------implimented it { minus taking time off from benching -hahah!} ----presto agitato---my bench is way up ---w 50 + Prs from rep records to maxes this year alone---I took Chris' lat idea to heart and see that its going to add an easy 100 pounds to my raw bench ---thank you again Mr. Chris Duffin---- your da Man!!!!
Hey Chris, what do you think of my take? First, the lats are stiffened at the top of the lift to reinforce their origin aka the lifters global arch position which is generally understood. From there the confusion I believe is that in the bench position, external rotation is also coupled with adduction, which is another action the lats perform and therefore people believe the lats are external rotators, which is not the case. so including the their action on the spine and rib cage, the lats serve to control unwanted abduction/flexion and scapular elevation, while the posterior cuff provides the rotational force, which help resist the internal rotation which accompanies the abduction associated with flaring the elbows, weaking action of the lats and allowing the arm to flex backward causing the angled bar path. so really the form you are discussing is about syncing the lats and the rotator cuff for control of the bar path and enhancing shoulders stability. thoughts?
"doesn't matter because we are only working against gravity" Any physicist would appreciate and immediately understand your argumentation! Great stuff. I would also add that it is actually less work because you are decreasing the moment arm of the shoulder joint. A straight press requires more work in order to counteract the rotational forces
Tried using the lats to pull my shoulders down towards my hips today. Pecs felt super tight, and the eccentric was slooow despite me trying to spend less time in it. Is this type of form good for reps or mainly for 1RMs?
Great video. Reinforcing some of my own observations. That article elitefts a few years back changed the way I thought the bench completely, great stuff.
I've been hearing "bend the bar" for more than 20 years, never knew what it meant till now. I'll give it a try tomorrow. On the other hand, "two + hours workout"--as a family man, I wish I had the time. In and out in one hour, four times a week is all I can spare.
***** Thanks for the response. Tried what you said today, and there's a definite learning curve here for someone who already has their technique fixed. ("Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent," dance instructor Marcus Koch) You described an "external rotation," which I believe means rotate your thumbs to the floor. I noticed that when doing this--in order to get the kind of resistance from the lats that you discussed in the video (it sort of feels like your back has become a bench shirt)--that you have to flare your elbows to get it. This seems to be at odds with the Westside system which teaches to keep the elbows in when benching to get maximal tricep involvement. So it would seem that you are teaching a bench press that relies more on the pecs and less on the tris. Is this correct?
Very interesting! The best way to teach lats bench i found is paused press, but not just pause the bar on the chest, but when it touches squeeze the lats harder and try to drive the bar in to the body and then press
this is one of the most effective peace of art sir. thank you for this information. my lats are pretty decent but tonight i can take a step further to use them as you stated in this video. i always have problem benching which means my shoulders always getting injured so i guess ill will certainly use this technique i cant wait thank you
Great info. Since my shoulders are fried...this gives me motivation to really slam my back/lats so that I can lay off the heavy bench but still maintain/increase my current bench numbers. I just found your channel honestly...so I haven't gone through all the vids yet but I'm working on it. Do you have one that shows your back work and if not...is that something you might consider doing for a future video? Thanks Chris...I really appreciate the information you are putting out there.
I hear what you say but I’ve always been told that the Lat is an internal rotator of the arm. So it’s getting confusing unless we can explain it by the extreme position of the upper body that makes then the lat more of an external rotator du to the relation between torso and humerus
Chris, I have a serious issue with my RIGHT ARM/ LAT activaiton when pressing. It's almost like my right rm is nit even there. Each time I lift heavy or try a full range ME movement, my right arm/ lat fails to engage past mid range on the descent. This causes my arm come loose at the bottom and miss the lift or lift it unevenly. Im not sure if it is a scapulae inhibition, weak right arm (which my grip, and arm is much weaker than my left), or what. If you could can you give me some advice. P.S. I have a recent vid that shows the issue. I fyou would be willing to take a look and see what it could be.
Chris: You speak of this moment arm favorably, rather than an negative which I find surprising. Isn't the moment arm between the chest and lock out positions minimized with thoracic extension? I fail to see how your lats are more engaged by raising your butt during the descent as this quickly puts you into shoulder extension, which is past the point at which lats function; the way resistance is being placed, the lats would have to assist in shoulder flexion when in extension and would equate to the gymnastics back lever position. The problem is the lats are not engaged in the lever, and if anything used as used to provide friction so as to create an artificial stretch reflex or increase proprioception, but it definitely does not actively or passively assist ... other than providing a physical shelf for the upper arms to land onto, and explode from, which would benefit from the forearms being diagonally placed outwards as with a wide grip (and not perpendicular to the floor, as I believe you suggest). Furthermore, the lats are not stretched at this position (as you say), as they'd have to be above your head to be so.
Brilliant, only found your channel the other day and now working my way through your videos. Over my last two training cycles I've added in lat work and if nothing else my back has exploded in size! What direct lat exercises do you favour?
Sounds like this would apply more to shirted benchers. I have good lats and know they are important for a stable base but I personally don't involve my lats when I bench. However I have fairly long arms and I do arch a bit. I bring the bar low on my chest.
a way i found to get the idea of how the lats should work on the benchpress is by doing pin presses from like 3 inches off your chest, but before you press you row yourself up, then you literally drive yourself through the bench finishing with pressing the bar up. when i do these i have the feeling that my lats actually hit failure before my pressing muscles.
Currently I'm doing 315 for 5 reps for 4 sets but it seems I'm hitting a plateau. My goal is to get my 1 RM to 405lbs. Not sure if I should do more reps with lighter weights or go heavier with less reps. My current 1 RM is 365.
I tried to involve my lats for my bench press to push it off the first three inches off the chest by externally rotating but after a couple of weeks, the inside of my elbow hurts. I don't externally rotation all the way up like at 9:32. Is that why you do for competition or do you externally rotated for the first three inches and then flare out and internally rotated to finish the pecs? I do see you internally rotating to finish the lift at 9:56 for your bench reps
just to infer my right pec looks similar to yours and I was wondering if it would be from distatchment on my pec as well? I wouldn't know but it sounds similar to my problem. my left pec is a formed much better than my right of structure
If everyone has their own recipe for the lift: (No one system works across the board for all) I will for sure add more than just a dash of this to mine. Thanks a lot for the video!
Damn, what a truly informative video. I learned a lot. What you have described in the video reinforces what I have been doing without knowing since time. Sub'd
Hi Chris, great video. What type of Lat exercises were you doing to get them so strong that you managed to increase your bench whilst rehabbing your pec? Does it even matter?
Hey ***** , is it necessary to have a thumbless grip to incorporate this? I personally use a thumbs around grip while trying to engage the lats as you describe, but I find that the forearms tend to take on the 'break the bar' cue more than my lats do.
Yes but not so true for raw benching but for shirted where you have to actually pull the bar down due to ultra hyper extremely tight shirt which add even up to 200 lbs in your bench..............
Awesome video, Chris.. A real eye-opener concerning the use of lats while benching. Thanks..!! Are you able to use lats involvment the same degree when benching with a shirt..?
Hey chris, I'm experiencing the pain you describe in the first two minutes of this video... What are some things I can do to correct the issue? Thanks, tommy john
Thanks for your awesome video! Today I tried to fix my bp. I thoght it was harder to do bp in this way. Do I need to keep the same posture when down and up? Thanks again!
I made my shoulders internal rotated and my elbows were nearly touch my body, but it was so hard to push the barbell. Is it normal? Or I rotated too much. Thanks!
So you mentioned that you do a lot of hypertrophy work for them, what all does this entail? Do you do high sets higher reps or do you vary the reps and go anywhere from higher like 15 reps down to like 4-6 reps so that your lats experience heavy loads such as max effort deadlift, bench, and squat?
Vincent Legent I post a weekly video summary of my workouts. There are links to written summarys on my website and I will be in the features log section on EliteFTS shortly.
Ethan Michell I always thought guys were supposed to keep the Elbows tight ..way I was taught,,,, gave his method a shot today ,it works ! Especially with high reps,