Lathe Headstock Leveling Without Buying a Tool. 

It took me a few minutes to realize you're addressing HEADSTOCK leveling ( or could be "paralleling" to the ways) and not Tailstock aligning. I guess we all need to start there before doing any other alignment steps. As soon as I reassemble my 1950 Atlas QC-42 I can work on doing this! Thank you!

I ran a largish Lansing 9.25'' spindle bore lathe years ago that would never cut straight and I was constantly adjusting the tailstock on longer parts... turns out that that it had a nice system to align the head stock fore and aft but all the bolts that hold down the headstock and the adjusters were loose!!!! Got it all aligned and tightened down, made a drastic difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great video as always Joe !! Happy to see you back in the shop !! 😊

Thank you Joe!! Glad to see you back in the saddle!

Like I said, you’re worth the wait 🤗 welcome back sir

Wow, tuff crowd! aye Joe...thanks for making the effort to bring us a new vid, clearly before you are feeling 100% much appreciated mate. 👍

I can't wait to get my new lathe in a few months and this is one of the first things I'll do once its set up. Thanks for all the info Joe :)

Thanks Joe been dealing with that problem for awhile, really appreciate your videos. They are clear and helpful! Keep them coming!

welcome back glad to see you up and around...................Be well and be safe..........

How timely! I'm going to be moving my beat up old lathe in another month and will need to re-align. Thanks for yet another gem of a video!

Great to see you again!

Good to see you, hope you are healing and well!

I really appreciate these videos! Please keep them coming Jo!!!😸

As always another fantastic video. Joe you are gifted when it comes to your presentations, I'm a retired machinist and still can't get it out of my system so I resort to watching it on RU-vid. Thank you!

Glad to see you're back at it! Great content as usual!

I'm really glad that you continue the practical hints about the machines and its fundamentals. Keep up the good work, greetings from Hungary!

You!! Are the man!! My garage floor under My 14/40 lathe has settled I think. This is the technique I will use to get my lathe running true like it used to. The majority of the time, when someone watches me operate my mill and lathe they see your techniques, setups, jigs, etc.

very good video Joe..thanks for your time

great tip. Thanks! I'm actually in your town working at the Giga Factory for the next few weeks. I appreciate the educational content.

Great info as always Joe. Very timely as well as I am planning to move my lathe into my new shop soon. Thanks again for sharing!

Great info Joe, thanks.

It's great that everything is explained perfectly.

Very good! Thanks Joe

Thanks Joe: glad to see you up and about. Get well soon.

Great little shop gem tank you very much.

Hey Joe looking good in that shirt my friend 😉. I'm still a very big fan of your channel. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge through out the years.....👍👍👍

You are back and standing this is good, but don't push it it needs to heal right. Welcome back but take it easy!

Welcome back !!!! John

Thank You Joe!

That is a great idea. I bought one of those MT-5 headstock alignment tools. I think I paid $200 for it.It also has a center on the end,to align the tailstock.Yes…. I only used it once.🤣🤣🤣.Still, I consider it money well spent.Glad to see you are back.It’s been a few weeks. I missed those model builds.Not so much for the model itself but,for the ingenious setups you use to build them. I recently built a Tiny Power, Ajax horizontal steam engine. I used several of your setup techniques to build it. I am very happy with the results and,your contribution.

Another aspect I’ve yet to consider. I spent considerable time leveling my ways. Then I turned the bar bell shaped material and measured both ends for consistency. I adjusted the ways until everything cut straight and repeated. Did this last year and I don’t use my lathe but about once a week on average. Goes without saying the damned thing is so far out now. I can still manage decent work for what I’m needing. Just can’t keep up with perfection as much as I’d like. The settling that takes place in my area is surely a problem.

Great tip Joe... Thanx

Long time no hear Jo, welcome back....

Joe's explanation was very clear, 1 indicator zeroed on top of the work piece, that work piece is then removed along with the chuck, then a collet chuck is installed with a dowel pin of the same dia. of the work piece then you use your indicator on the top of the dowel pin to take a reading, if there is a difference then you should adjust the bed of the lath up or down depending on the reading on your indicator.

Real good tip - as ever!

Thanks Joe

Thanks for the video.

Thank you Joe

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for sharing 👍

Man, great stuff.

I need to do this on a used lathe I recently added to my shop. I got it leveled, but it appears to be slightly off, I suspect side to side. Fortunately I followed your logic and will try this way first. I think I have a piece of 3/4" ground stock several inches long which in theory should allow both measurements with one test rod, assuming it turns concentric. We will see. Glad to see you back in the saddle.

Great to know 👍thanks Joe!

awesome hope you feeling better

I love the Rick drawing

Setting up the stock in your chuck so that the distance from pin in chuck to pin in collet is the same as the bolt centers on the headstock would auto-calculate the shims needed for alignment.

Welcome back, Joe! What's your preferred method for checking tailstock alignment to head?

Interesting trick. I've always used the technique that Harold Hall described in his book. That consists of taking a heavy piece of stock at the chuck, say 3-in diameter 8-in long, and then, without supporting the tail, turn it to a diameter. Any taper indicates headstock misalignment across the ways (X direction). Misalignment in the vertical direction (Y) will cause more non-cylindrical complicated shapes, but this technique measures the Y misalignment more directly and makes a nice compliment.

Welcome back. hope you are well. i havent done much lathe work due to the machine turning the unintended taper(towards the chuck) levelling didnt help much though i suspect its the wood beam(about 1" thick) mounted on the steel frame on floor. ive also been told it could be the headstock is flexing towards operator side of stand thus turning taper towards chuck. was planning to reinstall mc on reinforced straightened steel surface and take it from there

I had a similar issue with a used lathe I had just bought. I was getting about .005" of taper on diameter over about 6". I figured out that the bed of the lathe ran the whole length of the lathe and the headstock was actually clamped to it. It was not keyed or pinned in any way. There were 4 big bolts that did the clamping and adjustment sctews that allowed the headstock to be moved when the big bolts were cracked loose. As a means to measure the non parallelism, I clamped a bar of 1.5" dia aluminum in the chuck and took a cut the full length. Using an indicator attached to the cross slide, I swept it along the back side of the bar. This showed 2X the taper. It was then a simple matter of making an adjustment and then taking another cut and measure. Using this technique, I was able to get the indicated taper under .0005 over 12". I was happy with it at this point. My issue was what I will call in/out misalignment. Your video was talking about up/down misalignment. It seems to me this technique would work just as well with up/down misalignment. The trick would be that the cut would have to take place on the bottom of the workpiece and the taper would then have to be measured on the top. I guess the tricky part would be advancing the tool into the workpiece for each successive cut.

Joe, your method is much like the one I have used (only I work with a plug in the mandrel-taper rather than with a piece of stock in a collet). I'd suggest one variation: if you indicate the piece in the collet (or the mandrel-plug) first, turning it true if need be, and THEN put the chuck on with the long piece of stock, you don't need a second indicator. The same routine, but indicating at the front or back of the stock, works for getting the axis parallel to the ways as seen from above, too.

Thanks great information

Good to see you on your feet.

I work in the maintenance department where I work; and we have a selection of “test bars” when we install a new lathe or checking the alignment of the unit. This is why we lug down our lathes, so that we can pull down a point if needed. A majority of my new employees think it is a waste of time. Thinking that this unit weighs in at thousands of pounds and that gravity will settle it down. That is not the case.

Excellent!!

Hi Joe, Good to see you back - I hope that you are fully recovered. Now, a question : would a piece of silver steel - drill rod - do the same thing ? Check it for concentricity adjacent to chuck, or collet, and again at the outer end, and adjust to run true - that should give you the true axis of the headstock spindle. Check the top, and front, with a dial indicator, as you recommend . . . . A discrepancy of reading, which varies linearly along the length of the bar indicates an alignment problem in the horizontal, or vertical plane, and a non-linear variation may indicate wear on the lathe bed ways . . . . Not quite as good as a test bar, but maybe good enough for a small machine ? Kind regards, Steve A.

Interesting way of doing it.

I actually have an old lathe that is worn such that an indicator mounted to the saddle and indicating on the flat ts way drops .030 near the chuck from say 8" to the right. I do have a better bed to install but that will require quite a bit of labor that I' don't have time for right now.

Nice to see the flag your videos inspire a new generation of machinists

👍 good stuff. Thanks

Same idea as the tool height gage you made for the lathe. Use a pin in chuck/collet and indicate it. 👍

So having just taken delivery of my new 14 x 40 lathe, I’ve added 6 levelling feet (4 under headstock & 2 under the tailstock end. I’ve used my Starrett machinists level and got it perfect side to side under the chuck and at tailstock end & in the middle. I put the level lengthways on the cross slide & got dead level end to end. However if I put the 3 way blocks and Starrett level on the ways lengthwise rather than on the cross slide, I get a slight slope to tailstock end, so it would seem my cross slide and the ways might be a fraction high on the tailstock side perhaps. Figured that can’t hurt any & will just help coolant flow to the drain / sump in the tailstock end if anything. So my new Edge technology tailstock alignment bar arrived and I’ve mounted it between dead centres & tested each end at the side of the precision ground ends with runout dial calliper. I get 0.02mm at the tailstock end which is 2/3rds of one thousandth of an inch. Probably not worth chasing that final 2/3rds of 1/1000th inch by trying to adjust the tailstock sideways such a small amount. After watching this video last night, I realise that I also needed to test the height also at each end of the edge technology alignment bar - which I have done this morning and I am 0.2mm (8/1000ths) high at tailstock end.🤷‍♂️ Does this maybe mean that the two inboard levelling feet under the headstock end (the ones closest to tailstock end of the 4 under headstock) need to lower slightly to bring the centerline of the spindle down at the tailstock end by 8/1000ths (0.2mm) at 1 foot end of the test bar? 🤷‍♂️ I’d like to “get this right” if I can. The “factory test sheet” that came in the owners manual says:- “Difference in centre height between headstock & tailstock (tailstock upward) tested at 0.06mm (2 thou) & the “tolerance” is 0.08mm (3 thou). So it seems at 0.2mm / 8 thousandths I’m high compared to factory testing & “allowable tolerance” (.08 / 3 thou) maybe. 🤷‍♂️ I’ve heard that manufacturers deliberately set tailstock height a fraction high when new so that over time as it slides back and forth it “beds in / wears down slightly and eventually comes to even height with headstock height. When machining all the tool pressure is from the side & I’m within .02mm (2/3rds of a thou) - so I can’t see chasing the 0.2mm height difference at tailstock end is worth the effort? Please feel free to correct me on this because I’m completely new to this from a wood butchering background & this is my first ever metal lathe so I’m totally “feeling my way” as I try to get this set up correctly. Many thanks in advance.

Transposing... And looking for differences in values obtained.......common sense Good video 🇬🇧🙂

Great to see your ole mug back on the tube, and hope the foot surgery is recovering at a fast pass. Diving seasons is just around the corner (@@)!. your ole friend Bear. PS. Brisket will be awaiting when you can come our way,,,:)> Bear and Bride . And thx for the alignment tip too :)>..

Thanks mate, that makes so much sense. Great idea.

Could a person use a boresight laser for a gun barrel in the chuck to get the headstock running true

The arbor you mention in the beginning, can be bought from China. Are they good? At 1/5 the price of a Western made version. I am suspicious. However your trick here is brilliant. I can't put words too how much you impress me over and over again!

I have a 1220 import, so precision tends to be subjective. I chucked up the biggest diameter material I could and faced it, making sure to lock down the carriage. Then I reversed the direction of the spindle at center and continued the cut across to close to the edge. If more material was cut, the head is pointed to the front 1/2 the amount. Then I set up an indicator, unlock the carriage and touch off while watching the dial. Any deviation from 0 before touching means it’s pointed to the rear. Of course being an import, it’s wise to check that the crossfeed is perpendicular to the chuck. That’s more critical for facing operations than anything and a lot more expensive to anything about.

Thanks, Joe. Great video. Am I correct in that this only checks for up and down discrepancy and not necessarily left / right? It seems like the centerline of the spindle could be parallel with the bed while also pointing to the left of right of the tailstock. I have an import 12-36 and I don't yet have a collet set up. I put a piece of 1" steel round, about 15" long in my 3-jaw with about 3" in and 12" sticking out. Then I kept adjusting my tailstock left and right until I removed any taper in the part, down to .001 over 12"; I can't seem to get that last thou out consistently. That's where I'm currently at with it. I plan to cut the unturned portion off so I have about 12" of straight part. I planned changing over the 4-jaw, indicate the part in and then just use a toolpost mounted indicator to see which way the part is pointed. In the likely chance adjustment is made, I'll have to start over again with the tailstock. Would love your thoughts if you happen to see this. Thanks.

Good to know. Only problem is I don't have collets for my lathe.

Perfect timing - just got a new lathe, waiting for the forklift guy to come get it from the driveway into the basement :-)

Glad you're back but I hope you're not pushing it to fast, take care and take it easy...

Lathe doesn't have to be leveled -you can put it at 45° if you want . What it needs to be is parallel. Ways need to be parallel with each other and with central axis of the machine.

Hi joe! I love your clever tricks and hope you can also help me out with one. I need to turn a long hex schaft between centers on my lathe but the hex shaft wont fit through my spindle. How do I accurately drill the centre holes?

I’m very new at machining; working on my first lathe. Why not use a gauge pin in the first operation just as you did in the second? I enjoy your videos. Thanks.

Awesome!!!!…I don’t want to know…..LOL, might spoil my happy world!!!!

Mr. Pie, Is it possible to use a microphone that clips to your shirt/collar when you do lessons?

I'm thinking that you could use a variation of that technique to true the tailstock.

I just have bought lathe, and i need aling that. Thank you this video

Hey Joe. That's pretty neat for vertical alignment. Personally, I swear by the eponymous "Rollie's Dad's Method" which requires even less in the way of precision equipment, and handles both vertical and horizontal alignment. It's bloody long to do, though.

I chuck a 12" long 3" diameter thin wall aluminum tube into my 4jaw and turn it round (un-supported) with a shearing tool. A shearing tool applies almost no pressure through the axis. I can then rotate the head until I have no taper. Once the tube has no taper, I can verify there is no tilt. A tube like this will not sag. I have a second tube that is plugged at either end so it can be turned between centers for checking tailstock alignment. The middle both tubes it are undercut so I only have to turn the outer 1" or so. I use 2 tubes since the plugged tube will probably sag a bit when un-supported.

similar to replacing a tailstock. the height needs to be the same as the center of the headstock and also in plane with the centerline. seen that one before. misground from the factory.

Now that's interesting and simple.

one small addition, about trusting that collet... rotate the spindle for highest and lowest, the actual deviation is the mean...

I've done a similar thing in a slightly different manner. Chuck a piece of ground rod in the 4 jaw and indicate it in to run true with the spindle centerline at the chuck and at the tailstock end of the rod, then indicate over the top and the front on each end of the rod.

I understand the theory of this, but can't picture how you are using the indicators in relation to the carriage. Is there a neat method to do this process if we don't have a collet chuck and 2 dial indicators?

good one ! I just spent 2 hours leveling my Clausing 5912 How do you adjust the head ?

How do you account for wear in the ways? Won't the wear throw off the alignment?

Yes welcome back, and I noticed some change in your health, Looks like you lost some weight, Hope it's not serious,

There are numerous methods for checking headstock alignment. The method I use relies on an accurate ground 1" diameter rod that's 12" long. I place it in a four jaw chuck with strips of copper. After centering the rod at both ends, I sweep the top and side with a 1/10's DTI. Any misalignment/bed wear issues will be revealed.

Joe, I’m confused as to WHERE I mount my indicator (base) is it on the carriage or on the ways? This is probably a dumb question, but, I’m a real amateur (newbie) at this. I really would like to learn how to verify my head stock is true. Thank. Rex Myers

Not owning a Lathe myself. So if you find that the lathe head is out of alignment, what adjustments can you make on the lathe to align the head?

Nice method. Need to try, except I don't have a collette with small enough run-out. I think this should work when turning same diameter into start and end of the bar and then indicating the height. Spent today few hours with my lathe trying to figure out what is wrong and how could I fix it. There are just too many problems, so it is hard to figure out, but probably headstock misalignment is one of them. Precision level indicates that rails are lower at the middle and the front rail is lower than back rail. If the lathe is leveled with the carriage in the middle, bubble runs on corresponding end in each end. Also in sideways direction, it runs on the back side. I have made alignment bar from precision ground 35mm axel by drilling centers in each end on steady rest. Runout is about 1um, which I find to be perfect, since I indicate the bar when running my lathe in low speeds and reading average. It makes it easy to align tailstock sideways, but vertical alignment behaves weirdly. With indicator touching the bar at the center of cross-slide, two thirds from the tailstock seems to be constant distance, but closer to the chuck, distance increases 0.01mm, when it should drop since rails turn up. Then when i turn the indicator on either side, about 10cm from the center of cross-slide, distance stays the same on entire travel length. That 0.01mm doesn't sound bad, but I can get severe tapers with parts mounted directly to the church, especially very close to jaws. It can be something like 0.03mm in 2cm distance with a tool that is perfectly center. Any similar experience would be helpful. My work continues, since this is really starting to bug me.

Joe Pieczynski, After you set your headstock true vertically and horizontally to your bed, you can chuck any long round shaft and adjust the tailstock true to the centerline axis. Start by machining a center hole in one end of the shaft. Extend the shaft as far as you want and support it with a live or dead center in the tailstock. Don't worry about the diameter or the straightness of the shaft. CRS works fine. Don't worry that the center hole might be off center. Use 2 dial indicators, one on each side of the shaft. Rotate the shaft and zero the indicators in the middle of the runout with the carriage near the chuck, then move the carriage to the tailstock end. Rotate the spindle again and look for the center of the indicated runout. If the center of the runout is the same offset on both indicators, the tailstock is adjusted properly. Make sure that differences are both positive or both negative incase the diameters changed. You can adjust the tailstock until both median runout positions are identical. It does not matter if the diameter is different at each position or if the shaft is bent. You are looking for the center axis of rotation. Suggest checking the vertical position as well and shim the tailstock at the adjustment joint if needed. Just make sure that your center is true to it's Morse taper. You can check this by flipping the center and see if anything changes. Try this for yourself and make a video if it works for you. P.S. This double indicator concept can be used to set the head true to the bed before working on the tailstock too if the shaft is strong enough to support itself against gravity.

Are people calling you Hoppy? Take it easy Joe. Don't push it. I had an uncle who broke his ankle and couldn't wait to do things. They had to rebreak it and took over a year to heal. It was never right until he passed.

But every lathe i have ever levelled ive not been able to "nod" the head, raising the levelling feet under the headstock only raised the entire machine. Could not get it to bend. Possibly because these were heavy build mazak and okuma cnc's? The error was minimal however, about a thou over 12 inches

Hi Joe. My tailstock seems to be about 10 thou high. How does this affect spot drilling, drilling in general and boring? I can't find any "unshims" in the tool catalogs. Any cure other that surface grinding or milling the the doggone thing down?

That’s a new one. Makes sense though.

What about people who don't have a collet chuck yet? I recently bought an ER40 13mm collet and nut to make a spindle taper collet holder. But I don't want to make it till my headstock is aligned. At the moment it's cutting a taper. I have a colchester master 2500 with just a 3 jaw chuck. What about leveling the headstock with rollies dad method?

cool