The fact you called it elvish when Tolkien decided it’s dwarven and elven not dwarfish and elvish makes me feel doubtful how up to date this is with his language
To be honest, I don't know myself, in the videos I sometimes say Elven, but otherwise I follow the general consensus. Thanks for the info, I'll look into it
@@Artreii in some of his earlier works he said elvish but I think once he started publishing and the editors kept trying to change dwarven to dwarfish he and he stubbornly corrected them because it was grammatically more sound to say dwarven I think that’s when he finalized his decision on elven too, not too sure but I know final decision was elven
Rowling: Has a good idea, writes a book Riordan: Has a good idea, writes a book Tolkien: Creates a language, thinks it needs a world, creates a world, thinks it needs a story, writes a book
No no no, he created the entire story just so he could write in an Alabama joke and make it less creepy than it actually is by making it technically more creepy, I'm of course talking about Finwë's descendants Arwen and Aragorn. They are technically cousins by the English system of relatives, aka the 1st cousin x removed thingy... Well Arwen and Aragorn are 1st cousin 90+ generations removed. Due to her being an old hag multiple times over. Aka she's 2700 years old when he first met her... he was 20... that's 135 times older than he was... then when Aragorn was 50 he bethrothed Arwen... she died aged 2901 after being married to Aragorn for 122 years. The languages were just a bonus.
@@livedandletdie You do know that it was very much common in the old times, especially among the ruling classs? Alabama joke just because they perpetuated this habbit in the us? I'm not even sure if people across europe were even aware of what's happening in this insignificant state and if I can guess nobody really cared.
Lol. I can see Aragorn camped out under the stars, haunched over. Illuminated by the glow of an iPhone and wearing ear plugs. Repeating phrases to himself.
"Okay so imagine you're meeting Legolas" Me: ok. *Has heart attack* "Now that you're going to eat together, Legolas will probably want to know your name." NO HE WON'T CUZ I'LL BE DEAD-
I am a Welsh learner and it´s absolutely amazing the similarities this has with Welsh. Welsh sounds like Sindarin! Or better said, Sindarin sounds like Welsh! This is why I´m learning Welsh in fact. :D
Did you know Welsh language has much in common with the original Hebrew? Some entire phrases are even strikingly similar. It's amazing, and history is not being taught about which people's moved where at what time. ❤️🔥
Not *len hannon* , it's *le hannon* . Regarding *hannon* , it means just "I thank". It would probably not be used as a way of thanking someone in Sindarin. You can also thank someone in Sindarin by saying *hannad* , which means "thanks-giving", or "thank(s)".
There are actual name translations for common names. My elven name is Sìladan, male version would be Berianir. It means protector of men. Men being mankind, not the gender.
i think actually you should say "anin" instead of just "nin" because the translation of the german word "mir"(wich in english is the word "me" if used as the object in a sentence like "forgive *me*" wich is "vergib *mir*" in german) is translated as "anin" soit is as follows: goheno (imperative ending -o = vorgive) anin (me - as object of the sentence). the reason not to use "nin" is that you say "nin" for the word "my"... like "mellon nin" (my friend), or "(I) eneth nin" for "my" name is. so instead of using "nin" i suggest using "anin" i hope you find my comment helpful
Two facts. Number one: The Hobbit was published in 1932, so most people were most likely still using a horse and carriage. And Number two: back when Tolkien created LotR and The Hobbit, people laughed at him for how “stupid” and “silly” his books were, because no one actually read fiction back then, they only read nonfiction and thought all fiction was stupid. It’s hard to believe now that J.R.R. Tolkien was laughed at for this masterpiece. R.I.P., Tolkien 😔
No one read fiction back then???? Where did you get that idea from??? They read A LOT MORE more fiction than we do, from the most serious down to penny novels! Remember, they did not yet have TV.
@@fundeztroyer thanks for the nice reply. I'm afraid I must tell you that I am convinced your Dad was wrong on this, or perhaps he was talking of something else. It must have applied to him and is group, but it was definitely not true of society in general. Novels were in great vogue, more than today.
All right, I appreciate the effort. I would like to offer a little constructive criticism. First, in actual fact , one would never say 'hi' in Sindarin. The Elves are way too formal for that. However, there was a short greeting, derived from the verb "suilanna-"(to greet/to give greetings), which was 'suilannad' or 'suil'. That is the closest to "hi" that the Elves would ever get. The word "A" is a sort of vocative particle that, in many ways, could be translated as a greeting, such as "hail". It is due to the fact that "A, Elbereth Gilthoniel" is translated as "O, Elbereth the Star-kindler" sometimes and, at other times, it is translated as "Hail, Elbereth the Star-kindler". It is quite opposite to "hi", which is very informal; it's quite formal as a greeting. Second, the word "met" is the past participle of the verb "to meet". In Sindarin, this is "govad-". To form the past participle in Sindarin, one adds the suffix "-nen" to the stem of the verb. This would make it become "govannen", after a few, well-documented, phonetic and morphological changes. The G is never attached to the rest of the word by an apostrophe. You mentioned that you aren't so well versed in Sindarin pronunciation. Very well. The diphthong "AE" is actually never pronounced as /ey/ but as an Italian or a Spaniard would say them: /ae/. That is: a short /a/ sound (as in "cut") and a short /e/ sound (as in "pen"), pronounced quickly one after the other. Third, the next thing we need to talk about is the second person singular verb endings. There is a lot that is actually unknown but it seems that the pronoun "you" (sing.) Sindarin has two precise forms: a colloquial one (ce, ci), and a formal one (la, le). The first form is a subjective one (used as the subject of the sentence) and the second one is the objective form (mainly used as the direct object of the sentence). The form that is placed at the end of a verb to be the person verb ending, then, would be "-ch" for the colloquial and "-l" for the formal. Thus, "Pedil Edhellen?" is properly formulated. It all depends with whom one is speaking, though, and how formal you want to be with the person. Asking your best friend the aforementioned question would be very cold. It would be best to ask him or her: "Pedich Edhellen?" Fourth, I do not know where it is written that Sindarin has borrowed any words from Quenya. The Sindars abhorred that language and forbade the Noldor to ever speak it, shortly after they arrived in Middle Earth. This was due to the Kinslaying at Alqualonde. It is very, very improbable that "nai" was used as a word for "maybe". I do not know what word should be used. Maybe, we ought to coin it. Fifth, "gohena", as a verb, actually means "to forgive". It is used like "excuse" in "Excuse me". This is what "Goheno nin" actually means. It is not used to say how sorry you are but to excuse yourself, such as when you need to pass very close to some other person, or when you would like to be allowed through. In the Etymologies, there is a word for "sorrow"; this is is "hiraeth". Thus, I would think that "sorry" would be something derived from that. One should note, here, that a common mistake that is found in many sites on the Internet is to use the word "nîn" with the Imperatives to mean "me" or "to me". I can only find record of the word with the circumflex when it is used as a noun to mean "a tear", as an adjective of quality to mean "wet" or when it is a possessive pronoun/adjective, meaning "mine/my". Instead, I find that the proper objective version of the personal pronoun "I" (me), is "nin" -- without the circumflex. Therefore, in the end, it would be "Goheno nin". Sixth, the sound of CH in Sindarin is like the sound of CH in the German word "doch". Also, in verb negatives the "ú" is usually attached to the verb and this is why it becomes "úchenion". The prefix "ú-" causes lenition (or soft mutation) on the verb root, which is "henia-" plus the personal ending "-on". Seventh, it is attested that the Interrogative Pronoun "man" corresponds to the English "what". As much as I have looked around, I cannot find a Tolkien use of the word "how". I believe that the word "manen" was the official translation at some point. So, that is correct. However with "ci", we go back to the earlier explanation about the colloquial use and the formal one. If Legolas asked you earlier if you spoke Elvish in a formal way, why would you now ask him how he were doing in such an informal manner? Has time passed since the first question? Maybe, as I said, it's all about circumstances. One should use the informal question you mentioned in your video only if the context warrants it. Otherwise, it would be better to say: "Manen le?" As far as "maer" is concerned, this adjective is usually used for physical things that are in good condition or that are useful. I suppose one could extend it to non-living, abstract things. Although, I've never seen it used (correctly) for people. A lot of people used it as the answer to "How are you doing/How are you" in the past. Maybe it's all right to do so now. Once again, the AE is not pronounced /ey/. Eight, now let's talk about "Avaro naeth". Honestly I don't know where you got this phrase from but it doesn't seem to be canon Tolkien and rather (and I hate using this word because it's so divisive) "fanfictiony". It seems that in translating "don't worry" literally from English, one has made a couple of mistakes. The word "Avaro" is a Quenya word that identifies one of the Avars, the Elves who never travelled across the ocean to Aman and Valinor. Instead, in Sindarin, the word "avo" is a negative adverb that is used to form the negative Imperative Mood, such as in a command like "don't worry". Then, there is the word "naeth" which is the word for biting or gnashing one's teeth. It has a figurative meaning of "woe". It can be correctly extrapolated that in Sindarin one would most likely use the phrase "don't gnash your teeth" to mean "don't worry". This would be, then: "Avo naeth". I should also mention that the word "av/ava" in Quenya ended up meaning "without or lacking". This also makes one see the cognate relationship and similarity in meaning. Nine, now we come to "thank you". Just like I've said before, it depends whom you're thanking and the circumstances which you both (or all) find yourselves in. I've found little evidence that "len" be a proper Sindarin word. It would make sense that if "nin" were the proper accusative or dative form of "I", then "len" should also be. On the other hand, we have the "Hymn to Elbereth" where they say: "Fanuilos, le linnathon". This is translated as "Everwhite, I will sing to thee." This gives enough proof that the form "len" isn't the best form for the formal pronoun. What about the informal one, then? I've seen plenty of variations: from "Ci hannon" to "Cen hannon" and also some lenited forms: "Gi hannon" and "Gen hannon". The very last one, "Gen hannon" is the most common and probably the most correct one to use. For some reason, Sindarin lenites all these small common words for no stated reason -- it just does!! In the end, a formal thank you should be "Le hannon" and an informal one should be "Gen hannon". A note on pronunciation -- Sindarin is a language where you pronounce everything that you read, like Italian or German. Don't give people the wrong idea by saying that they should pronounce it like "Lennon". The H ought to be pronounced. Ten. One should be weary of translating literally from English and vice versa. "An ngell nin" is the translation of "for my pleasure". First of all, this is the first time I hear of this phrase. Second, it's not that it's absolutely off the mark but the word "gell" means "triumph". I strongly doubt that it could be used for the very same purpose as "please". Besides, the English interjection "Please" comes from the French phrase of courtesy "S'il te/vous plait" (If it please you -- a subjunctive construction) that has been shortened to "Please" in true Anglo-Saxon fashion (we, lazy bums). Therefore, to say in Elvish "for pleasing ME" is rather unlikely. If anything, it would be "for pleasing you" or "for your pleasure". What I did find is the word "glas" that means "joy or happiness". This could be used to create a formula such as: "For your happiness" to be used as "Please". This would become: "An glas lîn". Should there be also an informal counterpart? I don't think so. I believe "please" is always a formal or courteous word and the second person pronoun should always be formal. Also, I need to add that, since the pronominal marker here is a possessive adjective, the word must get the circumflex. Eleven, the way to say "good-bye" In Sindarin is most definitely not "galu", which is a word that means "good fortune or wealth". The Elves in Tolkien's Middle Earth were a noble and formal people and they spoke a noble language. So, a salutation of farewell would most likely be formal, even among close friends. "Novaer" literally means "be well" and is most likely the salutation used the most in informal speech. A more formal salutation is "Cuio vaer", which means "live well" and it is probably used for a more definitive good-bye where the people involved would likely not see each other for a very long time, if ever again. Thank you for making this video, anyways. I hope I gave you information that you may find useful for future videos. BTW, epicly actually spells epically, even though we don't pronounce all the letters -- I know, it's crazy. Novaer, mellon nîn.
First of all, wow, thank you so much, it's super useful. I'm gonna heart your comment so more people can see it. I'm gonna analyze it and it's definitely gonna help me in future videos. Epically ;)
Mad respect for taking the time to learn the language this well. It's crazy when you learn most of the lore, think you know everything, then check out the languages. I'm just starting to learn Sindarin and I can already see that this is not a short-term goal.
You are right the video has plenty issues, however your comment contains some as well, so I hope you are not opposed to some constructive criticism as well. - "First, in actual fact , one would never say 'hi' in Sindarin." - I disagree, but that's a matter of personal taste, neither I nor you have evidence. Remember however that Sindarin is also the tongue of the nobility of Gondor, so the argument "Elves are to formal" is not conclusive. - 'suil' - Doesn't seem too unreasonable but is not attested and could be potentially mistaken for Goldogrin 'suil' "daughter" - "govad-" - Tolkien had different ideas about the structure of 'mae govannen' over the course of his life. One is simply 'mae + gobad-nen' However Tolkien also considered that 'mae' should cause lenition, so he revised his idea to 'mae + ci + govannen > Mae g’ovannen' "Well (art) thou met". That's where the apostrophe version comes from. However 'govad - ' would need to come from the root BAT "step" which might have been replaced by later PAT with the same meaning (which would lead to 'gobannen'). Therefore I favor a third explanation with 'cova- -> covannen -> lenition govannen' from the root KOM "gather, collect", so I agree about the "no apostrophe", just for different reasons and wanted to point out that it _was_ an Idea from Tolkien. You can read the full madness here: academy.realelvish.net/2021/09/01/conceptual-history-of-mae-govannen-well-met/ - "second person singular verb endings: There is a lot that is actually unknown" Our problem is that we have too many paradigms, not too few, see this discussion: eldamo.org/content/words/word-1090138655.html - "ce vs ci, la vs le as subjective vs objective" - This is a strange interpretation, I can't find any attestation 'ce' and 'la' - "-ch as the verb ending for ci" - There is no phonetic development that would justify this, we would expect the 'c' to soften to 'g' in this environment, ad we have examples for it 'car- > cerig' "you do" and 'gala- > galog' "you grow" from PE17/132. 'agorech' in the Túrin wrapper could be an dual form "what have we done" -> 'pedig edhellen?' - "Sindars" the word is 'Q. Sinda, pl. Sindar'. "Sindars" sounds horrible - "Maybe" One theory is that 'aen' from 'i sennui Panthael estathar aen' could be a cognate of Quenya 'nai' (I think that's one of CFH's theories). Of course that means it is the subjunctive marker not a good response to a question. - "Goheno nin, forgive me" - I find "forgive me, I don't understand" to be something perfectly fine to say. I my opinion it's far safer than deriving something from "sorrow" where you will almost certainly produce "sorrowfully" instead of "sorry" - "nîn" also, its the plural of 'nen' "water", cf. Nîn-in-Eilph, but yes not "me", no circumflex. - "úchenion" Nothing wrong with that, just a reminder that LĀ- vs. Ū-negation is still an open problem, so it might also be 'lóchenion'. - "manen, how" - That's a Quenya word, the instrumental particle 'ma' declined in the instrumental case so "by means of what -> how" as in "how did get here". This doesn't make sense in Sindarin, which doesn't have this case and one suggestion was 'na(n) + man -> naman, with what' for Sindarin. However those words can't work in "how are you", "**by what are you?" is nonsensical, such a phrase can't be translated literally, especially as it isn't even meant as an invitation to share ones feelings, just something to say because you are polite and different languages have vastly different strategies for politeness, so no 'manan le' either. - "maer for good/useful physical things" - Actually we don't have examples of 'maer' in a phrase in Sindarin, the only examples we have are from drafts earlier in Tolkiens life when the Welsh-style language was still called Goldogrin or Noldorin respectively and they are primarily for humans, e. g. 'i weg mór, the good man' or 'bessin moron, good wifes'. With the Quenya cognates I see where you are coming from, 'mára, good/proper' doesn't seem like a particularly good fit, keep in mind however that Sindarin has a tendency to produce homonyms, 'maira, admirable/excellent/precious/splendid/sublime' comes from a form that would produce 'maer' in Sindarin as well. - "canon Tolkien vs fanfiction" - everything above besides quoting 'mae govannen' directly was already fanfiction with as a nicer term Neo-Sindarin and there is nothing wrong with that as long as we sirive to come close to what Tolkien wrote. - Avars >> Avari, see Sindar - "avo naeth" doesn't work because 'naeth' is a noun and the imperative particle needs a verb, its the equivalent of "don't woe" instead of "don't worry". I can't think of a good alternative right now though. I wouldn't worry too much about the teeth-gnashing part, we have 'sigil Elu-naeth, necklace of the woe of Elu' with no particular connotation to teeth attested. - "le vse len. 'le linnathon'gives enough proof that the form "len" isn't the best form for the formal pronoun" - That's only a lack of creativity on your part ;) one explanation could be that object pronouns induce nasal mutation on their following verb, cf. 'in + lais -> i-lais'. We actually get a explanation from Tolkien that 'le' is an "absolutive" form (so not the standard object form!). Also consider that 'A Elbereth' is a song so it could contain non-standard poetic word choices to fit the meter. I don't claim to know how Sindarin's object pronouns work, just that '-n' marks the object is the best guess we currently have. - "For some reason, Sindarin lenites all these small common words for no stated reason" - That could be just standard object lenition, i. e. the same Phenomenon that turns 'peth, word' to 'afagrant beth, he spoke words' with out a special rule for function words. Its "I[subj.] thank you[obj.]" after all. - Now to "thank you" proper. I'd say 'annon allen/echin/annen' for formal/informal/plural with dative pronouns modeled after 'annin, to me' and 'ammen, to us'. Luckily, someone else explained the details already: www.elfdict.com/phrases/1-sindarin/56-how_to_thank_in_sindarin - "An glas lîn" - I would have expected a definite article here, cf. 'i enneth lín, i innas lín, ered e-mbar nîn...' - "The Elves in Tolkien's Middle Earth were a noble and formal people and they spoke a noble language" - Again, they have an informal pronoun series so they had almost certainly different registers to draw from. As you, too, are quite interested in the Eldarin languages, I'm curios: Do you know Vinyë Lambengolmor? It's a fairly active discord server where the community (including figures like Roman Rausch, Tamas Ferencz, Paul Strack and many others) gathers these days. _elen sílatha aen erim-men lín_ "may a star shine upon your path"
@@amelia-sk8mb its not that I don't like it, I just haven't had the time to watch it^^ that's mostly why I don't consider myself a fan. I also haven't read any of the books.
I have a theory that Tolkien was an elf or a hobbit who lived in Middle Earth in a past life, and then he was born in this world and all the languages he created and stories he told were true and just memories from his past life.
Well all the stories are "from" the Red Book of Westmarch an in universe document that Tolkien "translated" from Westron, Sindarin, Khudzul, Quenya, etcetera
I like how I’ve failed multiple language classes throughout college and high school for Spanish French and Japanese, but I will be incredibly concentrated on learning elvish and khuzdul.
You mean in Middle-Earth, as the Elves in Valinor were not bilingual. Actually, the majority of Elves in Middle-Earth were also not bilingual; except for the Noldor, who were native speakers of Quenya but also learned Sindarin as a second language. All Grey Elves (Sindar), Silvan Elves and Green Elves spoke Sindarin. Very few of them actually spoke Quenya.
Thanks so much for this upload! It’s super helpful and will be fun to try to learn Elvish during quarantine (even though I’m supposed to be doing Spanish homework lol). I hope everyone is doing safe and well during this time!
The word *galu* is a noun that means "blessing". I'm not 100% sure now, but I think it is indeed also used as a goodbye: "Blessing(s)!". *Novaer* is not attested in Sindarin, but people often use it as a "farewell". It was adapted from Quenya *namárië* , which is short for *á na márië* "be well" (or "stay well" in a less literal translation). *Novaer* is a contracted form of *no maer* "be well" - the adjective *maer* "good" (here used adverbially, hence its translation as "well") changing to *vaer* because, in Sindarin, the second element of a compound word is usually subject to soft mutation (lenition).
The word *_Sindarin_* is not derived from Quenya. It is, in fact, a Quenya word, an adjective meaning "Grey-Elven", "Grey-Elvish" or "related to the Grey Elves or Sindar", and can also be used as a noun referring to the language of the Grey Elves. It is not known how the Grey-Elves or Sindar called their own language. They likely used the adjective *_Edhellen_* , which is an adjective meaning "Elvish", "Elven" or "related to the Elves" as a noun to refer to their language. If you need a Sindarin term which refers precisely to the Grey Elvish tongue, it is possible to coin terms such as *_Thindren_* "Grey Elvish", *_lam-i-Thindrim_* or *_Thindellam_* , both meaning "language/tongue of the Grey Elves". The Quenya equivalent to *_Edhellen_* is *_Eldarin_* "Elven", "Elvish", "related to the Elves", also used as a un umbrella term referring to any or all the languages spoken by the Eldar (like Quenya or Sindarin) - the word *_Eldar_* refers precisely to the Elves who started the March, following Oromë towards Aman , but is often used simply as a word for "Elves", singular *_Elda_* "Elf" (specially one of those who went on the March), Sindarin *_Edhel_* , plural *_Edhil_* . Another Sindarin word for "Elf" is *_Eledh_* , plural *_Elidh_* .
The Sindarin personal adjective, or possessive adjective, for "your" is *lín* , written with an acute accent (rather than a circumnlex: *lîn* ), which holds for all other personal adjectives. The acute accent in *nín* "my" was once regarded as a slanted macron which Tolkien would have accidentally written this way (a macron is an horizontal stroke written above a vowel to indicate that this vowel is pronounced long), because all other personal adjectives attested in _Sauron Defeated_ have a circunflex. But it was noted that, if the acute accent was confirmed, this adjective would be probably enclitic (that is, placed after the word it modifies. And the acute accent was then confirmed (Vinyar Tengwar 44/22). Plus, in the Appendix E of _The Lord of the Rings_ , Tolkien wrote that, in the transcription of Sindarin, long vowels in unstressed monosyllables are written with an acute accent. *Lín* was attested in Vinyar Tengwar 44/24, in two lines of a Sindarin translation of the Lord's prayer, *no aer i eneth lín* “hallowed be thy name”, *tolo i arnad lín* “thy kingdom come” and *caro den i innas lín* “thy will be done”. *Nín* was also attested in said translation: *Ae Adar nín i vi Menel* “Our Father who art in Heaven”, but is used for “our” rather than “my” ( *mín* "our" was the expected personal adjective to be used here, which would then change *vín* through soft mutation, or lenition, since it would directly follow the noun it modifies: *Ae Adar vín i vi Menel* ) - *ae* is the interjection "o!" (which is not on the "original"/English version of the prayer) and *i* is, here, the indefinite pronoun “who, what, which, that” (undeclinable - used both as a singular and a plural pronoun); but it is used mainly as the definite article “the”, singular (plural form *in* ). Supposing that Gil-galad is asked about his name, the answer to *man i eneth lín?* "what is your name?" (word for word: "what (is) the name your?") may be either *i eneth nín Gil-galad* "my name is Gil-galad" (word for word: "the name my (is) Gil-galad") or *Gil-galad i eneth nín* "Gil-galad is my name" (word for word: "Gil-galad (is) the name my"). Both word orders can occur in Sindarin.
1:17 It always enraged Sauron that he had to use Tengwar to inscribe the One Ring with its enchantment. Both because he hated the elves more than perhaps even Melkor; and he was jealous the language he made couldn't be used for something so fine, delicate, and valuable.
Despite the fact that Sindarin was the everyday Elvish language spoken in Middle-Earth (where the story of _The Lord of the Rings_ takes place), the Elvish language mostly featured on the LotR's books is Quenya, spoken by the Elves of Aman/Valinor, instead (not those of Middle-Earth). The reason for this is evidently that most of Elvish lines on the books are actually music/poetry, not everyday conversations ─ in Middle-Earth, in the Second Age (the LotR's story takes place in the Third Age), the everyday usage of Quenya was forbidden by Elu Thingol, king of the Sindar in Doriath, because he discovered that those who spoke that language, the Noldor (who came from Aman in self-exile), had slayed many Elves of their borthers of the Teleri clan. Thus, in Middle-Earth (not in Aman), Quenya had its usage limited to music/poetry and ceremonies (and also magic spells) and became something like an Elvish equivalent of Latin (an "Elvish Latin", as it is sometimes described outside Tolkien's mythology). Besides, there is also the fact that, among all languages created by Tolkien, Quenya was the one that he beloved the most; so, I think he probably wanted Quenya to be featured most of the time, rather than Sindarin. But, in the movies, most of the lines in Elvish consist of common, everyday conversations and the like; so, naturally, Sindarin is featured more often.
Me, having a talent for languages: *My laziness, burnout and school:* _Me crying but I wanna learn Sindarinnnn :(_ Once I'll have time I'll try my best to learn this language. I LOVE IT. Edit: Started learning a bit, I have trouble with pronouncing the r's since my first language pronounces the r completely different. I also found a nice name in Sindarin for me; Teithril, which means draw/write and has a female ending. I'm liking this so far.
1:13 is the beleriand mode of sindarin. It reads “Onen i estel edain” and “U-chebin estel anin”. A dialogue exchanged between Elrond and Aragorn which means “I give the hope of men” to which Aragorn replied “Not I keep hope for myself” (i keep none for me)
As I can remember, it was all a sentence said by Aragorn: *Ónen i-Estel Edain, ú-chebin Estel anim* , translated "I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I kept no Hope for myself" - although it literally translates "I gave Hope to Men, I do not keep (any) hope for myself". I think it was a verse originally said by Aragorn's mother, Gilraen, and he was quoting her when he talked to Elrond on that occasion. *Ónen* "I gave" is written with an acute accent over the *o* , indicating that this *ó* is pronounced long ("ooh"), with more or less twice the length of a normal, short *o* ("oh"). *Ú-chebin* "I do not keep" has the prefix *ú-* "no", "not", also "without", also "uneasy", "hard" attached to *hebin* "I keep" (which undergoes soft mutation a.k.a. lenition, triggered by *ú-* , changing to *chebin* - the *ch* in Sindarin is pronounced as in German "bach", "ich"; in the second example, "ch" has the same sound of "h" in English "hew", "huge"). With verbs, the meaning of *ú-* is intensified to "impossible", so that it comes near to a negative (as in *ú-chebin estel anim* ). A short variant *u-* is also attested - therefore, *u-chebin* can also occur. In the transcription of Sindarin, this prefix may be written with or without a hyphen separating it from the word it is affixed to - thus, the spelling *úchebin* or *uchebin* is also possible.
@@atanvardo5730 I understand everything you’re saying. I made a typo with “Anin” where it should’ve been “Anim”. I know the acute accents are present, but I often forget to write them down. I understand how the grammar works in this sentence, but thank you for reminding me. Annon Allen!
@@atanvardo5730 But I was saying the dialogue from the movie which was taken from the books. I don’t remember if in the books it was between the two or not, but I know it was said nonetheless. If you can post the footnote where it is in the books, I’d greatly appreciate it
@@jackwooten2374 I didn't notice you wrote *"anin"* instead of *anim* . I was referring to the movie, too. I looked it up here on RU-vid for some video to confirm that and you were right: First, Elrond said *ónen i-Estel Edain* and then Aragorn completed with *ú-chebin Estel anim* : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FfPuepyrE8M.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JNqBnCOYOgE.html Anyway, it was originally a *linnod* that Gilraen said when she was dying (she was using *Estel* to refer to Aragorn: *Ónen i-Estel Edain, ú-chebin Estel anim* "A gave Estel to Man/the Dúnedain, I kept no Estel for myself"). I also don't remember if in the books it was a dialogue between Aragorn and Elrond (I think it probably was). Maybe I'll look up for it later, although I'm feeling lazy about this.
*Ma* as the adjective "good" is considered archaic and obsolete ( *maer* is used, instead). It is only used as an interjection: *ma!* "good!", "excellent!", "that's right!". You don't really need to use *ma* for "yes", adding an entirely new meaning to the word, since you can circumvent the lack of a Sindarin word for "yes" when answering to yes/no questions by using the same verb used in the question. For example, if someone asks you *pedil Edhellen?* "do you speak Elvish?", you could answer by saying *pedin* "I do" (literally: "I speak") - which is equivalent to say "yes". If you want to answer "no" to such a question, you could use the negative prefix *ú-* attached to the verb, like this: *ú-bedin* "I don't" (literally: "I don't speak") - *pedin* changes to *bedin* due to soft mutation a.k.a. lenition triggered by the preceding *ú-* . This prefix can also be written without the hyphen separating it from the word it is attached to - *úbedin* "I don't speak". A variant *u-* is also attested - so we can have *u-bedin* / *ubedin* . Alone, *û* (marked with a circunflex in the transliteration of Sindarin) is an interjection: *û!* "no!", "not!". The Quenya *nai* is not close in meaning to "maybe" or "a bit", as it means literally "be it that" and is used as an equivalent to English "may (it be that)" in sentences which express whishes, like the well-known goodbye formula *nai Anar caluva tielyanna* "may the Sun shine on/upon your path/way" or "may it be that the Sun shine on/upon your path/way" (literally: "be it that the Sun will shine (up)on your path/way"), which also occurs as *Anar caluva tielyanna* "shall the Sun shine (up)on your path/way". The Quenya for "maybe", "perhaps" is *cé* . There is no attested Quenya or Sindarin word for "a bit", "a little". When expressing a wish in Sindarin, we use the verb in the imperative (following the attested example *no aer i eneth lín* "hallowed be thy name" , which has the imperative *no* "be"). Thus, the Quenya goodbye formula *nai Anar caluva tielyanna* "may (it be that) the sun shine on/upon your way/path", or *Anar caluva tielyanna* "shall the Sun shine (up)on your way/path", would render, in Sindarin, *silo Anor bo men lín* "may the Sun shine on your way/road" or *silo Anor am men lín* "may the Sun shine upon your way/road" (both sentences using the imperative *silo* "shine", the former using *bo* "on" and the latter using *am* "upon"). We can also use *pâd* "way": For example, *silo Anor am pâd lín* "may the Sun shine upon your way". Carl F. Hostetter theorized that *aen* (seen in *aestathar aen* ), of unknown meaning, could be the Sindarin equivalent to Quenya *nai* . Afterwards, two additional theories concerning this word emerged (but they have nothing to do with Q. *nai* ), one by David Salo and the other by Carl Hostetter. There is no attested Sindarin for "true", as far as I know. *Thand* is actually Neo-Sindarin (a Sindarin neologism) for "firm", "true", "abiding". *Thenid* and *thenin* are both seemingly also Neo-Sindarin words for "firm", "true". Yet another Neo-Sindarin word, *naed* , means "true", "real".
Quenya was originally written, in Aman (Valinor), with the characters created by Rúmil of Tirion (do not confuse him with Rúmil Galadhon, a Silvan Elf of Lothlórien, brother of Haldir and Orophin). These characters were called *Sarati* , each one being a *sarat* . They were written and read vertically, from top to bottom. The Sarati were associated with specific sounds/phonemes much more closely than the Tengwar, and may thus be correctly referred to as an alphabet. Later, Fëanor created the *Tengwar* , or *Tîw* in Sindarin. Each letter is a *tengwa* , or *têw* , both words meaning literally "written sign", "letter". Fëanor based the Tengwar on the Sarati, hence the resemblance between the two writing systems. Sindarin was originally written with runes, which were designed to be carved in stone or wood, hence their angular shape; whereas, the Tengwar, with their curved strokes, were designed to be written on paper. The runes were called *Cirth* in Sindarin, or *Certar* in Quenya, each rune being a *certh* , or *certa* . They were written and read horizontally, from left to right. In Sindarin, they were was also referred to as *Certhas* "runic alphabet", "rune-rows". And extended version of this writing system was called *Angerthas* "runic alphabet", "long rune-rows". The Cirth were eventually replaced by the Tengwar; but they didn't disappear, being adopted by Dwarves, because their straight lines made them better suited to carving.
You can check out my second episode of Elvish, there are some great resources in the description, maybe you'll find it there. I'm not planning on doing an episode soon, so check those out ;)
I have seen the lord of the rings series. I decided to start the book series. As I begin to read the prologue I am going to have to make a lot of notes so I don't get lost. I am glad I bought the book so I can highlight important ideas and information.
Yesterday I watched Hobit 3 ,I saw Lord of the Rings all of the movies and Hobit too for first time in my life and now I try to find elfish language lolll I like how it sounds😊😊😊😊💓🧚🧚🧚🧚🧚
i just love that this fandom is coming back (still going strong??) because 13year old me would've killed for this video series and 20 year old me is very happy about this ahh
1:15 While I don't think you've said anything wrong per sé, it is important to note that while the ring inscription does use the tengwar writing system, it is not Elvish, it is Black Speech.
Actually Tengwar can also be used as the correct writing some elvish languages! Tengwar isn’t actual black speech, as black speech is a spoken language, yet most black speech speakers correspondingly write in Tengwar!
@@AlexanderHamiltonTheOG Yes, I know. I was saying that although Elvish is written in Tengwar, Black Speech also uses Tengwar and is the language the inscription is actually written in. Point being that something being written in Tengwar does not necessarily meant that it's Elvish. I think you may have got the word "while" in my original comment confused with the word "because."
Just to get things straight here... Arwen was 2700 years when she met Aragorn. Arwen's father is Elrond, Elrond's brother is Elros, Elros was the great great grand father of Valandil, Valandil's descendant Elendil was the first high king of the Dúnedain, Elendil's son Isildur, the guy who chopped off the ring on Sauron's finger, well he Isildur sired the kings of Arnor, Eärendur became the last ruler of Arnor, as his son became the king or Arthedain, which was just a region of Arnor as his brothers ruled the other regions, well Amlaith's 14th generation descendant Arvedui, was the last king of Arthedain, his son Aranarth became the first Chieftain of the Dúnedain, well his 14th generation ancestor Arathorn II was the last Chieftain of the Dúnedain if we don't consider his son who didn't really do a great job as a chieftain of the Dúnedain, because his son was lazy and went questing with an elf a dwarf, 4 hobbits and the current ruler of Gondor Steward Benethor II's son Boromir, oh and a Ainur(Maiar) named Olórin, which is an immortal person with magical abilities... The party of 9 traveled for a bit then became a party of 8 as it's illegal to cast Sean Bean in a role he survives in, eventually almost 3 movies have passed and Arathorn II's useless son manages to marry Arwen his cousin more than 90 generations removed, and become the king of Arnor and Gondor, so what I'm saying is, that Aragorn boned his cousin alabama style and had a son with her. J.R.R Tolkien must have been really bored trying to figure out how to get a man and an half-elf to be cousins and lovers without it being to incestuous. It's basically an extremely bad wattpad story but with an extreme amount of lore added just to make it seem less creepy.
An amazing video! Loved it. Also am I the only one who feels that in the movies, Aragorn says something like "hanun len" for "thank you" and not "len hanun" like said in the video?
First of all, thank you, and Aragorn may have said "Hannon le", as it is also a version of "Thank you" (actually even more popular than "Len Hannon"), so yeah, I guess you're right ;)
Also considering the materials we have now access to but were unavailable to David Solo during the time the movies were made, thank you should probably be annon allen, cf. www.elfdict.com/phrases/1-sindarin/56-how_to_thank_in_sindarin
Duolingo has been yelling at me to come back and learn stuff...I refuse until we get Elvish...he can "cry because I'm not learning Polish with him" but I feel no guilt...
*Mae g'ovannen* translates "thou art well met" (word for word: "well (art) thou met"), with *ci* for "thou", "you" and *govannen* for "met", which are then lenited to *gi* and *'ovannen* due to the preceding adverb *mae* "well", and *gi* loosing its final *-i* because the following word, *'ovannen* , begins in a vowel. But it seems that the greeting in its final conception is *mae govannen* (without the apostrophe between the *g* and the following *o* ), translated "well met", with the passive participle "met" being either *covannen* (verbal stem either *cova-* or *covad-* ), then lenited to *govannen* due to the preceding *mae* "well", or an unlenited *govannen* (verb stem *govad-* ).
Heii, a question: Once Haldir said "Legolas son of Thranduil" what is it in Sindarin when you write it and what would be mean "Daughter of Thranduil?" I would be very happy if you or someone can help me. Thank you already!😊
In Sindarin the word for son is “ion” (ee-on” so when its used to say “son of [name]” its put at the end of the father’s first name. Since Thranduil is Legolas’s dad’s name its written: Thranduilion. For daughters the same rule applies but the Sindarin word for it is “iel” (ee-el). For the phrase “daughter of Thranduil” it would be “Thranduiliel”. Also in Elvish customs they don’t use the mother’s name (i forget why). hope this helps!
Sindarin is beautiful... truly beautiful. 😍 💖 I absolutely love this language. J.R.R. Tolkien= the second best British language genius of the 20th century right after Reynold A. Nicholson 🤗🤗🤗👏👏👏👏👏👏
