I think they're losing customers in a few ways: 1. If you already have a wave or any other competitive multitool why would you spend that type of money to "upgrade"? 2. If you're new to the market why would you spend that much when there are so many options at much better price points?
Good point, except a lot of people who use leathermans are fans. I have a surge and a Skeletool and just got the Arc. My friend who has never bought a leatherman looked at them all and said the arc was the best and got it. I’m impressed mostly with how many people ARE willing to buy it tbh.
Their only option is to go to 100% USA Made with US Steel, have flawless quality control, and take Ownership of the Multi Tool market again. Ditch the Corporate BS and make the best tool they can. If it is a Made in USA SwissTool equivalent, I’d buy 3.
Yep, I'd buy that! They already use 154CM in the Skeletool CX (and maybe one of the upgraded Charge models, too?), so one would think they would expand that use.
I'd buy that. I own a Charge+ G10 and a Surge so that $170 price point is just within the range that'd I consider reasonable. I just can't justify $200+
I hope they come out with something updated, but cheaper than the Arc. I would also love to see a new smaller tool from them to replace all the discontinued models.... a micro Free tool would be cool.
I’ve carried a modded P2 for my new construction plumbing job for the last 4 years. It’s gotten me out of many tricky situations up on ladders or in crawlspaces when I’ve needed a tool in a pinch. Freaking love the P2.
As someone who often reaches for their multitool while on a ladder with only 1 hand free, the Free P2 and P4 make a lot of sense to me. I even like the partially serrated blade on the P2 (even though I don't normally like them on my pocket knives)... I often have to rip through wires that would quickly dull a straight edge blade, but the serrated portion of the blade tears right through them with ease.
The only thing keeping me from getting an arc currently is the price point and the flex. $230 I think isn’t that bad, but too many things keep popping up that put the arc on the back burner. Getting filament, kickstarters for books, games, and so on. For my distracted brain it’s like ok save… oh what’s that? Where the flex as I configured it is $91. That is enough to save and then grab. The toolset for the arc is just really really good.
I think Leatherman could be moving to luxury tool zone. Like, really great, American-made tools at super high prices, and litter the other companies duke it out for the average or cheap tool markets. Simply refuse to join the race to the bottom that seems to be going on now. It gets them out of the quality-control issues and the current problem where it is hard to hire. Fewer tools made at greater profit per tool.
@@LarryGarfieldCrell I don't think you can compare computers to tools. To come out with tech products as good as Apple you need your share of the smartest computer engineers in the world, a pile of cash for research and development, and the ability to forecast where technology is heading. What's stopping a Chinese multi-tool brand from coming out with a Magnacut blade on a multi-tool? There are already Chinese knife companies as good as any knife companies in the world. If Leatherman shows there's a significant market for luxury multi-tools eventually there'll be a Chinese multi-tool company chasing those customers too. Also: Leathermans having bit drivers that require their proprietary bits leave them open to being beat out by brands offering universal bit drivers.
@@LarryGarfieldCrellGoing the luxury route IS a bad strategy when your customer base is the blue collar folks and your product is (and always has been) associated with handyman type work. Clothing and tech companies can become luxury because rich people wear clothes and use smartphones too (and they like showing off with them). But they don't need a multitool, never did. And the current LM customers will be alienated (the Arc is already pushing the envelope in this regard, people have every right to feel like the pricetag on it is egregious).
I like the Wave, I have used one for years. I really like the P4 and still carry it. For me, I put the Wave in a pack and the P4 in my pocket. For day to day, the P4 is way easier to use and I enjoy it. But if you need a compact tool box, a fresh Wave in your bag is hard to beat… Unless you have a SwissTool… Great video! I value your opinion on all things multi tools and EDC.
Absolutely agree, I edc P2. Around the house and heavy duty stuff I use my Swisstool. Also I love my Spirit MX and my Wave, but Free series are new look of the multi-tool, just they need better tool set. Cheers 👍
I am not spending $239 on a multitool. I don't care how good it is. How about LM design a Juice S2 size Mini-Arc with a pocket clip and a 154cm blade, MAYBE a small bit exchanger, 3 d Phillips, GOOD external scissors, and a diamond file? Compete with the SOG Power Pint, slightly larger, with a better tool set and esp better scissors. How about they re-issue the Wave under a new patent with a better tool set for $99. Bet they'd sell tons of them...
Leatherman has their work cut out for them if they try to go up against the SOG power pint. The Power Pint is the only multi-tool that is on me all the time. I think that SOG’s multi-tools are superior to everything Leatherman but I keep my Leatherman multi-tools close at any given time. Simply because of their tool options. The Leatherman Surge is my go-to when in need.
It continues to baffle me that Leatherman has no answer to the PowerPint-sized tool! I have a PowerPint, and the pliers are decent, and the size is great, but the other tools are trash. I'd buy the one you describe in a hot minute!
@@andrewcardillo4376 Andrew - the compression on the Powerpint pliers is more than "decent." I recently tried my Free P2 on a hose valve, and the LM did not have the "grab" to hold it, but the Powerpint did! The only ineffective tool on the PP is the scissors, which is awful. I have asked Dom if the Friskars from a Gerber 400 or 600 would fit in it... Have not heard back yet. Hope to soon. The pull cutter and both knives on PP work exceptionally well. So does the sim card poker... YMMV.
At least they're smart enough (and self aware enough) to have kept the Wave in production instead of trying to force people into buying the new models. I was almost sold on an Arc until I saw they run their Magnacut on the low side of hardness. If they're going to pitch it as being "the one tool you need to carry" then the knife blade needs to be absolutely up to pocket knife standards.
I broke down and bought a ARC and love it. With that said, I feel Leatherman has abandoned the folks that got them to the forty year mark. I was disappointed that they didn’t offer a more readily available forty year commemorative tool to thank the guys/ gals that got them all this way. I love my Leatherman tools, but have a Roxon Flex on preorder to try something different. I’m giving the Chinese a try, we will see how I like it!
The FREE series P2, P4, and the ARC -- I believe are in a category all on their own. You really need to look at them individually for your purpose/needs. I thoroughly enjoy carrying these tools and have brought a sense of enjoyment with user experience. These tools and the innovations have me looking forward to future designs.
The Free series have really ruined me to other multitools. Even my Skeletool, which I always considered a master class in simplicity and convenience compared to almost everything else on the market, isn't quite as slick to use. Hell, I've been trying to talk myself into buying a Victorinox Spirit MX since people rave about them and I've never handled one, but after using the P2/P4, the nail nicks sound infuriating.
They're discontinuing it because it competes with the Arc. The Arc isn't selling as well as they would like, otherwise they wouldn't have to plaster the ads everywhere and the tool would be hard to get.
Great video! Leatherman really needs to clean house, review their cost structure, and get back to basics! There’s no reason for me to buy an over price tool. When I can purchase a very good tool for $35 - $40! It’s very nice to have many tools for the price of one. Yes, I like having a multitool in my desk at work, in my desk at home, in my car, in my truck, on my workbench at home, ……… I would love to see Leatherman get out and attend some trade shows! The need to get out and talk with customers about their tools and how the tools are being used. I would also love for Leatherman get some ratchets in stock. I have been trying to get a new one 18 months. I really hope that Leatherman can figure things out! Before the competition over takes them!
Most of those 'very good tools for $35-$40' have are made in China and have no warranty. That's what you're paying for with Leatherman, along with some degree of USA assembly and componentry. Leatherman will never be able to match prices with those brands without giving up USA assembly and their warranty. For example, take a look at the Sidekick and Wingman which were meant as very low cost tools to compete with imported options. They're $70 now!
I am imaging they are going to do one of the following with the "Free" tech... 1. Put out a Less Premium Arc, let's say an "Arc Light"; maybe call it the Spark 2. Introduce the "Free" tech into their existing line of tool, Imagine a Skeletool, Signal, or Wave with it 3. The best part of the Free series was being able to use it 1 handed, I really think the pliers should have been Spring Loaded like the "Garage Arc" was.
The P4 and P2 are still on Amazon, sold by Leatherman. It went out of stock for a month a few months ago but it's been back in stock for a while now now. I don't know if they are selling the rest of they're stock or keeping them off they're website, to push the Arc.
@maxlvledc your most likely correct. You know more than most people. I was kinda hoping when they came back in stock, they re started producing them. Hopefully, like you mentioned before, they replace them with the Arc toolset, but with the P4 blade and a cheaper price. It would be awesome to have a serrated knife and a T shank for the file and saw. Either that or a module toolset and have a optional T shank, Rev/Wingman package opener and chisel.
I saw the winners of a contest of some sort,come by their factory and put together their dream combination of desired tools and blades,and I realized then,they should offer some kind of customizing app through which they allow everyone to “BUILD THEIR OWN”,with things such as color combination and even name engraving. I genuinely think, that would have been a hit. Especially at prices like the ARK (which has proven to be to much for what they offer). They dropped the ball on a huge opportunity to give customers and fans what they want… not what everyone else has! I’m a SURGE owner and user for about ten years (only on work days),and it’s beginning to show some wear. I’ve been trying to get a newer ,improved version,but honestly,it’s hard to find something “better” at a reasonable price!
Just picked up a P4 on sale and it’s a decent bit of kit well suited to my requirements. Being in NZ we have a bit of a premium on prices vs USD but it seems worth it so far.
I have the ARC, Free P2, Free P4 and I said it on one of your live streams that I just like the Surge and now more lately the black coated Wave, just for the weight difference. It just feels more like a true tool that can handle some abuse and seems to break in just lovely over time to the point it opens as easily as the Free style of tools! Of course I'm the guy that no matter what, if a new tool comes out, I'm jumping on it!
I bought a Free P4 near launch and it was a desk fidget toy and nothing more. Surge for work and Wave+ for carry. Then I picked up the P4 again and the usability is incredible.. for 90% of my out of work carry needs. At home I have a tool box. In my car I have a small toolkit. The Wave barely gets a look in!!
Leatherman really had a big fail on P2, P4. I sold my P2 to a friend and just got it back. I missed it. It's really great minimalist tool. If they've put straight edge instead of combo would have been different story. With P4 as well, few things should have been different and they could have a winner, long file and bit holder and that's it. But somebody made wrong choice. Cheers
Love my Leathermans. But all of the ones I own or used to own are discontinued. Carry 3 on my belt every day: Charge+ G10, Charge+ TTi (crimper pliers), and Charge. Lost my RadioShack Squirt with the wire strippers. LM needs to stop discontinuing their great specialty tools or they will disappear.
I was avoiding the arc due to price, but learned I was eligible for the student 30% discount. That was the tipping point for me to purchase it for my line of work. I also just want USA made tools even though they come at a high cost. The student discount lowered the arc to $171 out the door.
Sad for me. I really like my P2 & P4. Perfect truck driver tool. Cut seals, tire tread depth gauge and a knife to cut straps of deflate air bags they put in between loaded pallets of merchandise all with one handed flip for ease of pliers. A screw driver was never that hard to get the right size out of the truck. Almost never need a file. But that's the trouble of designing a multitool to accommodate the needs of many different people.
Good summary of the Leatherman situation. But count me in as one of the ones that just can't justify the cost. There are too😂many other options at lower price points. I believe Leatherman will have to rethink their market strategy.
Leatherman has already provided the right multi-tool for me now that you told us about the redesigned blade on the Bond. The Bond, plus the removable bit driver, plus a Victorinox Farmer X, plus a Spyderco Salt Native 5, and I think my EDC will be set. I guess I need to get the Bond soon given the way Leatherman keeps discontinuing models without warning. That said, I do find Leatherman's development of these next generation magnet technology multi-tools interesting to follow from afar. They do have a problem with all the budget brands now able to copy their old designs. The budget brands are priced so well you can just throw 'em into your Amazon cart on a whim, whereas with Leatherman you feel worried about paying and then regretting it. Not to mention, if you get the Arc you will have to keep a close watch on it so no one steals it. lol
What I would like to see is a $200 or less Arc slim model and have that replace the P2. The non-plier tools on the Free series don't compare favorably to the ones on the Arc. Take the existing Arc and remove the micro-driver and the can opener. And/or produce a "super-slim" model that would also remove the saw and file. I know some people like the micro-driver but I think it's out of place in a full size multitool. The tool is just too heavy to have a driver intended for such low torque. I'd rather carry a small reversible eyeglass screwdriver. The can opener is kind of a relic IMO. I'm not opposed to having a can opener on hand, but if that's your jam you can carry something like a P38 opener with your EDC. I've never needed a can opener on a multi-tool, and the few times I need a can opener at all I'm at work or home when I have one anyway. I know neither option would save much weight nor cost (I think Magnacut should be retained for the entire Arc series to retain the association) but it would cut down on the thickness. I like the Arc real well but it's just a little too thick for regular pocket carry, especially in the warmer months where I'm wearing shorts instead of pants. So now I carry my Arc in my EDC sling bag and a Compact SAK in my pocket. A slimmer Arc would appeal a little more to the folks who value a high-quality pocket knife but don't want to carry something quite so bulky. This would be similar to the appeal of the Skeletool, but more functional and better quality.
Like you, I've really come to appreciate the P2/P4, especially the P2 for the reasons you've laid out. I think the relatively simple toolset is a reasonable compromise for a tool with only two long implements. The P4 is less convincing, but I think adding a full length file (I'd prefer in place of the saw, but I think I'm in the minority there) would make the extra bulk worth it over the P2. I've thought about modding the P2 and P4 to add an Arc bit driver on both and Arc file on the P4, but I agree that an update to these tools is inevitable and I'd hate to spend a bunch of money on Arc parts on Ebay only for Leatherman to offer almost the same thing from the factory. I guess we'll see what comes at the end of the year - if there are no upgraded models out by then, then it's probably worth spending the money on mods.
I'd like to see Leatherman make something smaller like the sog powerpint. Something that's pocket-able and similar to the arc but smaller. That's wishful thinking cause I don't see them making smaller sized multitools. I like my t4 but miss the Pliers sometimes.
Personally, I think once one of the Chinese brands build a multi-tool with upgraded steels (both for the blade and the other tools), it'll be game over for Leatherman. There isn't enough innovation coming out of Leatherman to justify their asking prices. I think Victorinox can limp along for longer as their USP is their higher build quality.
I wonder if there were too many failures for some reason, and they realized they couldn't maintain the guarantee. They don't seem as sturdy as previous tools.
Hi, I've sold my P2 to a friend, and got a Curl. Few months ago asked my friend if he wants to swap them, and I've got the P2 back. I've missed it. For basic EDC it's great, just the blade sucks. Do you know if the damascus blade from Aliexpres is decent, is it worth to get one? I hope they bring them back, with revised tool set that make sense for us, the users, also to ask the community, what we want and need. Unfortunately decisions are made by a management that is detached from the end users. That's my opinion. Cheers 👍
I EDC a modded free p4, i just bought an additional backup (due to this video) which means I will have 3 backups that have never been used, but for me as a leatherman collector/user who owns most of the released current models the free p4/arc are my favorite, I just like the body a bit better on the free p4.
i kinda disagree that they are leaving money on the table because they Discontinued the Juice, Squirt and Style lines with nothing to replace them, their accessories are so hard to get that the Ratcher Driver that would be a cool and much needed edition to the Wave and ARC have been out of stock for almost a year, and people sell them on Ebay for 400$
Excellent points. The Arc is great (except for the price) and the demand has indicated that the FREE technology with the right implements will sell rather well. I have both the P2/P4 and I really like them; my favorite is the P2 which has been my EDC for a few years now. Although I recently got the Arc and really like it as well, the price point is rather high which maybe holding some back. Here's hoping LM will do an updated model (plus, P2+/P4+) but keeping the price relatively close to the originals.
Wave and P4 have different concepts around their tools set But I do actually think that P4 is better in most cases 1. One hand opening for everything - you can use it wearing gloves and deploy tools while holding something in another hand. 2. Stronger flathead/prybar that doesn't snap 3. Much better scissors 4. More build-in screwdriver options 5. Longer screwdrivers 6. Stronger pliers. 7. Reamer/awl The only weak point is the small file, but it still works for the task multitool usually tackles IMHO as a tool for the actual work in a shop/field, P4 is more useful and handy P4's concept: speed up your work by carrying less and replacing some dedicated tools with it Wave's concept: you mostly use dedicated tools so it's your backup for the tools you use not so often and don't want to keep around all the time. Thus I guess wave can be a better EDC. But: no prybar, and screwdriving capabilities are limited Any recessed screw on the way - and you're screwed. What kind of tool is that? I don't need them bits if I have to deal with such significant limitations.
So, I'm definitely getting free P4/P2 while I can I need a multitool to keep in my car or a toolbox, tool I can use wearing gloves. (My Swisstool Spirit is not very suitable for this)
So if the proposed plan for Leatherman is a "junior Arc", essentially, that has that toolset but is cheaper... what would that look like? What would they remove/change? The obvious one is a non-Magnacut blade, but that would likely greatly undermine the Arc (because, really, 95% of people don't actually need Magnacut). So what else should they remove to turn an Arc into a P2-B that would be competitive against the Wave+, assorted clones, Roxon, and still be at a good price for them and customers? Personally I'm in the "I already have a cheaper knock-off (Bibury surge clone) and I don't use it enough to need anything better" bucket, so I'm likely not interested anyway. But I'm curious what you (or anyone else) think a cheaper Arc-Jr would look like.
Hello, interesting vid and great insight! I always learn something. I wonder why Leatherman has moved the P2, P4 solely to Amazon (per Lthrmn website), and not sold off their own site? Is that their way of clearing out a product before discontinuing?
Why do you feel the need to upgrade? Is your Wave broken or deficient in some way? Why do people not buy things and then use them their whole life anymore? Why do people feel the need to waste money hoarding unnecessary crap that they probably will never use when people are literally starving!? Wtf is wrong with you all!?
I want the Arc but in the UK its £259 ($328), not a chance am I paying that so I bought the surge at just less than half the price. Its heavy but does everything.
Incredible... they are already gone from the website! I just picked up a Signal at a local scout store for under $80 because the scouts are no longer carrying the brand... Love it.....great to alternate between that and my wave... it is a bummer about them not officially being "USA made" anymore.
I knew this tool wasn’t going to last. Frankly, I feel it overstayed its welcome. Leatherman drifted from its core market and it cost them. Now they are behind
Thank You for the Clarity in your Update, also the gamblers Prediction of the Christmas 24' deadline. For what it's worth I Too would lay odds you had chosen the proverbial 'Line n the Sand ". On an Observation I.e. [U S A ] Stamping, I Cannot State d Sublime Import this has n Myriad of Ways.. A Gift, Dad to this Loving Son, Joe Syms jr.
I understand the lineup changes over time, but it seems Leatherman is focusing on customization and colors over a wide range of options. Sad to see the pocket and keychain options go away. This has got me looking at SAK and separate tool options and pouches over single multi-tool Leathermans. Didn't think I'd be looking at SOG, Roxon, and other brands.
I really enjoyed the concept of the free series, but I didn’t end up pulling the trigger until the arc came out purely because of the tool set I had no interest in the blades steel It was a nice bonus though. I enjoy how it has both types of drivers and the correct outside Big tools. And they got rid of the nail necks which I hate with a passion. I carry mine every single day and use almost every tool on it.
I love my P2. Fun action, great locking mechanism. Decent price when buying used because no one likes them. Not having any bit driver means I don't need to carry extra weight/piece. Spent an extra 20 dollars to get a straight VG10 blade is all i did.
I really hope they keep the styling of the original free series going, i love the look of the dimpled scales, just a very clean almpst retro design to me
They should do a Leatherman PX where you just customize it to what you want like the roxon tool. Choose 2 or 4 scales, and then the big and small tools that will fit the scales.
Ok, I feel better about my purchase now. Picked up a Free P4 on Prime Day for $105 and was starting to wonder if I should return it and get something else. I'll keep it!
I could justify the price of the Leatherman Arc for myself if the Magnacut steel was well tempered. But based on the tests, it is tempered at 57-59 HRC. Why do I need a Porshe on wheels from a cart?
@@ChristopherSalankey-t2h I can’t give a link to the video, but in it a person cannot scratch the Leatherman Arc glass. A knife with a hardness of 61.5HRC does this without any problems.
I never liked the naming scheme for the "FREE" series, it broke with the typical sort of names Leatherman uses and was too wordy. So hopefully they're planning to refresh their lineup with a new series that replaces the P2/P4 with a couple of new names along with an improved loadout. For the replacement of the P4, I don't see how they could go wrong with something that's basically just the Arc with a commodity steel blade, no included bits kit, and no coatings. As for the P2, basically the same idea minus the saw and the file.
I loved my P4 after I modded it for my use. They need do dump the bunk ass design for the new cutters and put in a better steel on the P series. I'd also like to see a blacked out version
I like the free platform though I have never had one they look useful, but to have an updated toolset would help a lot. Is there any word on the release date on the ROXON Swiss army style knife?
I don’t really care for the Free technology, super steels and aesthetics. I just want a well built, rugged, simple tool that works. Nothing fancy needed. If I want quick deployment of pliers, I’m grabbing one of my Gerber MPs. I mostly carry my modified Rebar though. It does everything I need and then some for less than $100.
I've gone back and forth with my Free P2. Loved it, then for a while I hated it, then grew to like it again. Leatherman should just do a revamped version, give it a bit driver, remove the extra flat head, do something creative with the mini file
So much for that 20yr warranty I have all free series tools except their knife collection and this genuinely makes me not want to obtain any more Leatherman tools going forward. I have a P2 that's genuinely been in my pocket since I got it to do basically all I've needed from it and now I feel like my P4 will just be a collecter piece
I think the reason they put such shitty tool sets in the free series is because they knew the Arc was coming. There’d be no need to buy it if the free series had comparable tools, there wouldn’t be a need for the Arc.
Hot take, but I think it’s the collector’s that keep companies like leatherman and victorinox in business. I barely use my leatherman’s yet I have 9 of them. I probably have 20 Mt’s in total not because I need them but because I love them. I will be picking up a free p2 on Amazon in the near future.
I reeeeeeeealy hope they incorporate a spring plier, like in the Garage 005, to be a true replacement to the wingman/sidekick. Keeping my modded wingman until then.
The only leatherman I own was a discontinued juice CS4 and I don't even use it cause I carry the next tool mini sailor more cause of it's light weight and I keep a full sized multitool in my car for emergencies. Honestly I can't be convinced to buy a leatherman when there's cheaper alternitives on the market that get's the job.
They should make an Arc without a Saw and File;and make it thinner, lighter and cheaper. Heck, one of the Leatherman guys uses a Free P2 with an Arc blade and Arc inner tools.
If the P4 is re-introduced as a budget Arc they will have something for everybody in their lineup. Keeping the P2 and P4 as they are with the price increase will give them a lineup that nobody wants. Quality control has to be addressed as well, otherwise this discussion is pointless.
Con mucho respeto,... lo que Leatherman debe hacer es agregar un Punzón a la Wave. La Wave ha demostrado ser la insignia de Leatherman por su precio, tamaño, peso y funcionalidad, pero lamentablemente carece de un punzón. La Leatherman ARC aunque posee una magnífica Hoja carece de un filo perlado. La Surge lo tiene TODO,... pero para edc se vuelve demasiado Voluminosa y pesada. En fin... Leatherman tiene la última palabra en el diseño se sus multiherramientas. Gracias por tus vídeos.
My main problem with Leatherman as brand compared to the new competitors is the lack of innovation. They basically repack the same old tools in different sets. Why get one more if i already have one? The others go modular, add big scissors or a wrench.
I actually recently just messed up my anniversary wave + ( I feel like a complete fucking idiot for this because I listen to a nobody on the internet) I made the mistake of soaking it in vinegar and completely stripped off the finish on all the tools including the pliers. I started to notice it closed weird and was acting funny. A spring came out of it so I just said fuck it and I decided to replace it with a charge TTI. I still have the wave but I want to give it to somebody who can fix multi-tools and maybe restore it
I asked someone on their official instagram recently about if they discontinued them the person I talked to told me they are pretty much only on their Amazon for now
I’m not feeling your assessment on this one Dom. The chaos that has been the Leatherman lineup the past few years has left me and I think a lot of other folks kind of sour. But more importantly, I think the clones are so good and so much less expensive now, that it’s hard to justify an actual Leatherman. It feels like they’re drifting aimlessly. I didn’t buy the Arc and am not planning on it, but I did buy the TSA NexTool keychain, and that was well worth it. I mean, how much does the average Joe want to spend on a multi tool anyway?
