Leaving the Westboro Baptist Church | Megan Phelps-Roper | Oxford Union 

Out of one cult into another cult-ure

Mackenzie Weber Yeah, only 60 people on Earth out of 7.4 billion are “right with God”, and all these people just happen to belong to this one church in Po-Dunk, Kansas. 😆

shes come a long way

@Bussarin's Dildo not all clocks are ticking

@@Scorch1028 Haha

If they want you to get through to them. Everyone isn’t going to change.

@@kaydenpat I agree that not everyone will change. But pretty much no one changes when they're being screamed at. Also it doesn't sound like Megan was especially open to changing, so she proves it's possible. :)

This worked for me, but it might be be the ONLY way to get through to people. My story is that I was uber-religious, I wound there at a time of emotional turmoil in my life. But I was always a well educated critical thinker. As a result, every time someone brought up a really good counter point to my belief for which I had no answer, it was like someone removing a Jenga block from my faith. It happened over and over again, more blocks were removed. Eventually my faith collapsed after polite logic, administered with respect, eroded it.

Problem is these days is that a lot of people think that simply having a different opinion is 'hateful'.

Don’t have a go at the eyes m8.

Tikkun Olam (repairing the world) implies some definite state of goodness, through using the concept of repair, or the unification of two components into one form, for instance, complete admiration as opposed to partial admiration. And so, complete admiration is justly called so because of its harmonic state and cannot be stated to mean some other thing, excluding partiality to be filled with other reflections of being. The good is a natural state of harmony called justice (welfare). Being is goodness itself.

I never hated her, she was indoctrinated as a child, a victim of her grandfather's cult. I have nothing but pity for any poor kid born into such a horrific situation. I'm happy for her that she found a way out, it must've been a very difficult thing to do.

I don't know if I felt "hate", I know for sure I felt WBBC and The Matriarch were dangerous people. It started with The Patriarch.and hopefully die out w/the passing of The Matriarch.

When people hated her they were helping to keep her in the cult.

Patrick Hutton exactly. It was compassion that made her see, not more of the same hatred that she was used to ignoring.

Many people are leaving cults, perhaps more today than ever before. The internet goes a long way towards helping people see their options. I left a fundamentalist church fairly similar to the WB, my story can be heard on my channel and on my blog.

Leave a cult only to join another one.

@@HowardARoark what is the "other cult" that you refer to? How do you identify what a cult is?

@@IsaacCoverstone The cult that you are presently watching. The same cult that created WBC in the first place. Its the same people behind it all.

@@HowardARoark that's quite a claim, how can you prove it?

The greatest challenge is to be prepared to change ourselves. I agree with you, Megan is so brave, courageous and humble too, to risk that you might not be accepted as we undergo change and growth.

What is truth? Some went the wrong way when they said anything else than only Jesus Christ is Truth. I hope she still believes God. Not people but God.

She's not christian anymore actually

Know thyself

are you 12?

@@uncasunga1800 are you?

Like also it’s her family she’s leaving... that must be hard for anyone no matter how screwed up they are

Meh, not that hard.

@@GregoryCunningham I 99.9% agree. It depends what kind of person you are. Not everyone is a timid and easily persuaded individual. Megan seems to be someone who prizes independent thinking.

@SA S or you know, they were abused by their family? Just because you can easily drop someone doesn't make you cold or doesn't mean you haven't thought it through, I had no issues dropping my dad because he wanted nothing to do with me until it was to late to fix what he did, issues like this aren't black and white.

Was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, so I relate to her so much, it’s ridiculous.

@@jaytgk3861 Please tell me that's a joke

@@micahadamson4309 , higher primates - for years outside the womb defenceless - are more susceptible to displaced instincts. So yes, if you fixate on sex with cars or demand to change your gender, or be Communist or Fascist, this is how it is easily done: Control the nurseries. Create the Naughty Step of child separated from the herd. The more intelligent a tribe is - their longer their gestation and childhood - the more susceptible to this form of abuse, to create intellectual existences of virtue and victim, memes and Hate Crimes. Getting them out of their echo-chambers, away from leaping from frying pans to fires, that is another story.

She talks about her family having good schooling as well. Also, higher educated people are more likely to fall for a cult! My aunt has always known what a shit show Scientology is, yet she’s joined Avatar 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes usual it starts in public school.

George Travers Absolute drivel.

Kai Sea 🙌🙌🙌

Agreed!

Kai Sea canceling someone who says racist shit isn’t the same because she was in a cult and didn’t know better. Unlike others on Twitter.

@@phil6748 people are indoctrinated with racist as well as cult-like beliefs. She said that she was "inoculated" against outside influences despite going to public school. People are taught their racist beliefs. Unless someone is truly a lost cause, its our responsibility to try and get through to them.

I love this comment

well if its been fed to you since you were born makes a little more sense

I follow a lawyer who features funny lawsuits. Either stupid lawyers or the cases in general. Trust me wbc are not even the most crazy group of lawyers.

Ironically, since the more intelligent one is the better able one is at defending and insulating a bad world view from attack.

It's an emotional belief. Yes I had the same thought. How can the really be inteligent and believe that crap. Indoctrination. And family ties. And emotion.

Rory Tennes - We are evolved to believe that crap.

I ❤️ Louis!

Now we know that never was her. Brainwashing your child only goes so far.

I think Louis saw past what she was parroting. I saw parts of her true self in the documentary.

Yes, even Megan herself...I'm glad she was able to escape.

we hope...unless she is a spy..... !!!

I grew up in a culty pentecostal family. It can produce a pretty strange person.

Maybe not despite of, but in spite of...

She wasn’t lovely until she left .....

@@martharay687 ...I visited a Pentecostal church in Winnsboro Louisiana in the 90s...I suffered culture shock as I am from England

@Léo Mutombo Stop this spam!

For the record there are people who to whatever degree have some sort of faith or subscribe to some sort of religion who are NOT intolerant nutcases, I hope you can appreciate that. Also it doesn't sound like she "left religion." She left the wackjob WBC community. If you take note of some of the words she chooses to use, it becomes clear she has not left Christianity. She's simply left a cult of lunatics and has become indistinguishable from most every day mainstream people who happen to be a Christian of some sort. I really hope you're not one of *those* atheists who thinks anyone who has any sort of faith is automatically the worst and most extreme example of that faith. And I also hope you're not the type who responds with "well then you're not really [religion] then." That's not how it works.

@@johnroscoe2406 thank you for your frank and honest rebuttal. I would add that to be a follower of one particular religion will automatically make you biased against other.... you would gain you moral code from religious texts, thus encouraging you not to like a certain group. My point was, leaving a religion (or specific interpretation) is extremely hard, the loss of the familiar, friends and community can be overwhelming. She might still be "religious" but I am sure she is on the edge of religious freedom. If she continues her journey of questioning then atheism will be her ultimate destination.

@@craigdavidson2278 But does that not show your own bias? You presuppose atheism is the only "right" destination, though you don't use those words specifically, it is evident. Further, you presuppose it is impossible to subscribe to any 1 faith without invariably becoming biased against others. That's a flaw with individuals and if an individual is so disposed then they would be that way regardless of faith. It would just represent itself through a different channel. And thank you as well, for recognizing I am not being hostile with you. Yes I can be frank, and it's a relief to be able to converse with someone who knows the difference. Especially on RU-vid comments...

@@johnroscoe2406 I would guess that "atheism" is the default setting for humans.....when one seeks answers maybe the lack of evidence to a question or the inability to understand evidence could lead a person to seek divine revaluation. Of course this raises the question in which god one would follow...and how they make an informed choice. (There being no proof of a god and them choosing to follow one, one could hypothesis that they prefer the comfort of religion rather than engage in scientific or humanist enlightenment)......just a thought

She still has faith, she left that particular church and their beliefs.

Etienne Daniel Dodge time mark?

@@scottjharris I'm sorry I meant in Louis Theroux's third documentary when he tells her near the end.

Right! Nevermind that religion was crucially important/formative to Gandhi, MLK, Schweitzer, Bach, Newton... and most of the US armed forces that basically saved civilization in WWII. Fuck you.

@@prometheusrex1 Don't you sound very Christian

@@1funkyflyguy Where did I put at issue my own virtue or religious status? Engage the argument instead of attack ad hominem, bitch.

She's realized that not just some of it is bullshit, but all of it.

@@prometheusrex1 - You loose credibility in your arguement when you have to resort to foul language. It highlights your limitations. You have my sympathy. I hope 2020 brings you an extended vocabulary. ❤

@Léo Mutombo Great. A fucking tree. Thanks ever so much.

Sadly, there's plenty of support for people who leave Christian denominations, especially the more fundamentalist ones. But because of political correctness, no ex-Muslim will be allowed to speak at the Oxford Union. Such a shame. Yasmine Mohammed has a very similar story, but she's not getting half the publicity Megan Phelps-Roper is getting. This might change with the Bill Maher appearance though.

How is she incredible? Because she is articulate?

K Butler well, it does take some courage to walk away from your family and all you’ve ever known

So true!

I know right, it's crazy to think about that even the worst of the worst people can even still see change!

Some of suggested that grandpa Phelps was a closet case, hence the hatred of homosexuals. Makes sense.

it makes sense that Fred would have this 180 - not only is he close to death, but it seems like that since Steve Drain took over the church, they've been really doubling down on the caustic tendencies. At most Fred seemed like he thought he was right - does not excuse what he did by a long shot (especially all that child abuse according to Nathan Phelps), but when people are sure of something, they'll stick to it until the 11th hour. And it seems like that Steve Drain not only realized that Fred's 11th hour was coming quick, but that Fred was starting to lighten up in other aspects (read: how Fred got excommunicated from FBC). Methinks Steve Drain is the one behind why FBC went from caustic '90s homophobia that the American layman could vibe with (until the Matt Shepard case made America grow up) to media darlings that dared sue anybody who fought back. He's more media-savvy - he joined the church on part because he made a documentary about Fred - and he's PRETTY STRICT to what Fred adhered to in his past. I think Steve was never liberal in any sense - he always felt out of step and thought that Fred's hate church was a good counterculture to join. Also, Fred was a civil-rights lawyer - he was gonna turn around in some way or another (also, the super-racist anti-Semitic and anti-black picket signs were largely an invention of the Steve Drain era). We didn't get to see a lot of his transformation because he died before he could complete it. So honestly, I don't think he did a full 180, but he was in the process of it, as his statement to the Equality House managers and him accepting Megan's visit as opposed to shunning her as per the norm with members who left, when he died.

He WAS a civil rights lawyer at the height of that particular struggle (50s - 60s)! It takes religion to ruin an otherwise good person...

She should have been banned.

@@bleuclegg6295 Why? The danger of hearing extreme views? She didn't convert anyone. Their membership is steady at around 70 for years.

@@KidMillions They hurt a lot of people. She might not convert to her "church" but she did encourage other crappy behavior. No one needs to listen to that rhetoric.

@@bleuclegg6295 I think most people can dismiss extreme views without feeling too hurt... This safe space culture and protection of feelings is a very feminine idea. Discussion of ideas is what's important.

@@KidMillions Feminine or not. When they protest your families funeral you might think twice about that.

What makes you think her mom believes it is not a sin for herself?

@@mickyboyakari1502 They think EVERYONE outside their church WILL go to hell due to sin. Sexual sin is the sin they concentrate on regularly. Hence, she should be in the same category as everyone else.

@@bleuclegg6295 She is no longer committing that sin, is she? Their dubious beliefs don't imply that they don't believe in repentance and God's mercy. Nothing suggests she believes it was not a sin when she had a child out of wedlock.

@@mickyboyakari1502 They believe that ONLY they will go to heaven. Others that do the same sin will not outside of their church. Do your research before coming at me.

@@bleuclegg6295 How does that mean that she believes it was not a sin? You apparently have difficulty reasoning logically.

I could see that (kinda) too. Good for her!

Better late than never though. The sad thing is her grandfather was a civil rights advocate before he started the hateful pickiting . He used his legal education to further the rights of African Americans. In this talk she mentioned that they started protesting in a park. The grandfather was upset that the park was a gay beat at night. Sadly that is how the church started down the path of antigay pickiting .

Yeah, she is smart.

I am shocked at her. I never thought she would leave that church! I saw the way she was before! Oh boy. This is wonderful to see. For me? God? Sorry...I want the proof. I am atheist/agnostic. The difference between me and other atheists is that I'm not as dismissive that which is God could still exist. Generally I doubt it but you never know. I do think there was a Yeshua that tried to help his people. I accept him as I divinity but there are things taught about him I can't except as being true. I don't think he ever claimed to be God itself or that he is going to die for you. This was invented later. Also sin? People existed long long before the supposed Adam and Eve. Apparently they got curious and found out too much! Ha ha. Curiosity got the better of them. Love and take care from atheist/agnostic Lee.

@pippin1962 I sort of went through what you did, but at an earlier age. I went to Catholic grade school where the nuns told me about heaven and hell and who gets in and who doesn't. I could not accept that the wonderful Jewish people in my neighborhood would be damned merely because they did not acknowledge Jesus as God. That made me agnostic. I was like 10 years old. After that it was a simple thing to write off Jesus and God as creations of man to keep everyone in society in check. Years later I studied the science of the beginnings of the solar systems and also of biological life. I came to the surprising realization that there was far more evidence to support the existence of a creator than otherwise. Being open-minded and having a scientific bent I started studying about various religions and even revisited Jesus and read a bit of the Bible for the first time. I also did quite a bit of research about whether or not Jesus was a real man and what we knew factually about his ministry. Of course all this inquiry took years and led me to some of the exact questions you raise. I will cut this short and say I am not trying to change your mind on anything. You sound very settled in your position. I will say I did come to believe that Jesus made claims which he was able to substantiate, and no one then or now has been able to unsubstantiate those claims. I have had to reconcile myself to believing that 1) God does exist. 2) He is all about love. 3) Because of #2, He does want the best for every person. 4) Also because of #2, free will has to play a part, as He doesn't want us to be a bunch of mind dead robots. How can you love a robot and how can a robot love you? 5) If God is omniscient and all about love, certainly He takes everything into account when we are judged. 6) And finally, if Jesus's teachings were legitimately how God wanted us to behave, and Jesus was able to prove with enough evidence that God sent Him on a mission to convey this message, then it makes logical sense that a belief in the veracity of the messenger would be a prerequisite to really wanting to inculcate Gods' message into our lives. If Jesus was lying about who he was, then why believe what he had to say. Again, from my point of view, which is more focused on history, science, logic and reason, etc. I have had to acknowledge that the evidence supporting Jesus far outweighs opposing evidence. Fortunately for me, I believe my life is better off for my journey of discovery and what I uncovered. I wish you all the best in your journey.

She was raised right.

still uses the name phelps too even tho shes now married

emilyfrombulwell yeah, seems like she’s profiting from the notoriety

TK UA or, she is taking ownership of her family name to make a change to its meaning and negative connotations.

dont make me laugh, shes profitting from it. do you think her job would take her around the world to address people like the oxford union if she wasnt a part of that family? fair play to her for renouncing them but she was still a part of it for many years and spread much hate. nobody that has ever picketed a childs funeral should be given redemption or a platform to speak no matter how sorry they are. she should be made to get a real job and if she wants to go to oxford take her family there on vacation after working a full year to pay for it. im not for silencing these people because like she said in the video, if it wasnt for twitter giving her a platform she would still be one of them. you want to redeem yourself then fine, do good work, redeem yourself. but after what she has done she should do it in private. defo not under the name phelps

emilyfrombulwell How unhappy are you with yourself?

😂😂 My thoughts exactly. I was like "well at least something good came from twitter"

I have a antihistaminic eyedrops for that.

@@ElroyMF1 Is that the prescribed treatment for a bad case of religion?

thats not sadness thats religion. theyve all got that faraway look in their eyes like they arnet quite 100% there

I had the impression that her losing her family has affected her, hence the abrupt ending when she starts talking about reachimg out to them. Regardless of who they are, it can't be easy to be at odds with a family that was nurturing and loving

Victor Asack she must feel terribly sad, among other feelings. She probably feels humiliated for believing and following such insanity. She lost many loved ones.

I absolutely do not agree with anything that the WBBC do or say but what evidence do you have to say that? Just curious.

Andrew T I think you’ve more than likely hit the nail on the head there!!!

goonie4055 Which part, the part about Fred Phelps being gay or the part about denial? Lauren Drain, another ex member of WBBC talks about Fred’s sexuality in her book - Banished. That as well as his behaviour being textbook reaction formation defence to an internal conflict, leads me to this conclusion. The power of denial is evident in itself, and this lead Fred Phelps to behave in a way that caused misery and suffering to those already in pain, through his direct actions.

Andrew T didn’t know any of that. Makes sense now.

You should watch her Joe Rogan interview. It was really good.

Meghan's future action could be to lock elbows with other former members of this cult and move to shut this shit show down once and for all.

im glad she left and she sounds smart but she is monotone borrrrrrrrrring

Are you pretty & nice? Are you hateful?

Megan left with her sister (Grace - I think) ... they went to a public library and grabbed as many books on philosophy that they could!

JK Mid yes! lauren, grace and megan have all met up & are on good terms :)

they are shot out like wayyy out

I have a way to leave and not have the regular issues that come with it , if your interested.

It’s no more vicious now than it was then. It is more censorial though.

@@RoyKoopaling agreed it is censorial. I also believe behind the screen lurchers are getting worse than ever.

Chríss M are you serious? Even in the last year, I’ve noticed a huge difference in the keyboard warriors everywhere. They seem to get braver and nastier each year. So disturbing.

Barbie Longfellow-Ott I completely agree with you.

Fireside Chats With Kim I’m absolutely serious.

It is a church. Their interpretation of scripture is no less valid than any other. You just happen to disagree with it.

@@anonxnor No... It's a cult. But thanks for playing

​@@fizzingwhizbee6937 Nice try, but being a cult and being a church is not mutually exclusive. Wanna try again?

@@anonxnor nice assumption. I know there is a difference and the Westboro Baptist church is a cult.

@@anonxnor what does that mean? That your personal interpretation is correct? How do you know?

surprisingly it seems that they allowed their kids to use social media and phones etc. They were probably completely sure that their children would follow their cause and attack people online rather than actually listen to them. The adults in WBC frequently use twitter and other platforms to berate others so maybe the children were allowed social media on the bases they would do the same

WBC kids like her even went to public school and regular colleges, although they did not seem to make true friends there as that was discouraged. I recommend reading her book Unfollow, really fascinating

Nunovurbznzsodontask exactly!!

It blow my mind , I didn’t know he was not in it in his end days

Brick Stone

@@wyldebyll3089 that's the one!

Respect