Legacies 1x15 Lizzie and Josie Fight 

Mikayla Oulai Doubtful

Mikayla Oulai I always knew Luke was stronger even Liv knew Luke just didn’t want his sister to die so he tried not to use that much magic

I think Lizzie is more powerful I think the anger in her is ready to be released when they battle when it comes to the merge

@@leslie-od1zb yea honestly i think thts y she has meltdowns cuz she has too much power tht she cant control

@@leslie-od1zb yeah I agree that Lizzie has so much anger in her but then again so does Josie. She suppresses her feelings so much and she doesn’t really believe in herself. She lacks the confident that Lizzie has. And I’m sure when she realizes her true potential she’ll be the superior twin.

True. Josie's victimization is a pain in the ass, but your right takes two to tango. Lizzie could try to be less selfish and Josie could try to be less "victim".

yeah, but so much for the pinkie promise

@@SaraBethCox Yeah, I guess that's what is like to have a sister or a brother. They fight and than apologize.

@@beatrizjardim8308 And then fight again when a situation presents itself again

@@SaraBethCox I think so. But They always have each other's back's. Kindda like Stefan and Damon or Klaus and Elijah.

True....Lizzie is the strongest one.❤️💛💚💙💜💖👍🏻

There is zero evidence that either twin is the strongest. Lizzie's episodes mean nothing. Frankly, Josie holding all her pain and anger in and managing to stay in control could be argued as having tremendous strength compared to Lizzie's inability to control herself.

She is

No. Lizzie has no magical skill. All she does is siphon some magic and say a random offensive spell and think that enough. Whereas Josie practices her craft everyday and shows sign of getting stronger. Lizzie focuses on the social aspect of school, whereas Josie puts the Scholar in school. Josie is stronger. Lizzie being angrier and out of control has nothing to do with it. Even if she wanted to hurt Josie, she would have done it right then and there. But she didn’t. And she lost miserably. Josie is stronger bc of her control and skill, not bc of her emotions. However, her emotions merely amplify her power as displayed here. If U want Lizzie to be the stronger twin, write to Julie Plec and have her add in scenes of Lizzie studying and not trying to siphon the life force of her classmates. What a bitch.

I wish Josie win the merge I hate Lizzie

@Sunday Sweets no way. josie practices her magic way more often and she uses more advanced magic. there's no evidence at all to support lizze being stronger.

@@arissa1762 we've never see jo practice magic and when did josie used advantage magic go watch legacies again and start noticing small details

Ģachá Røses Actual josie is the stronger twin, josie almost destroyed lizzie in the merge if it wasn’t for landon she probably would of died, now people say lizzie won the merge, but why did she die and josie didn’t? If lizzie won the merge then josie wouldn’t have made it to the next episode, also u can search it up :)

leahisediting ion think the merge really happened. They had to make Josie think she won remember. So ion think Lizzie was trying because she knew that they had a plan for her to come back. And if she really won the merge Josie wouldn’t come back. And you have to absorb your twin which Josie didn’t do. And if the necromancer was to bring Josie back he would’ve been in control of her. Plus Josie did have hella dark magic which did put her at a huge advantage. Lizzie is hella underestimated tho if that wasn’t the real merge which I’m certain it wasn’t and Lizzie learns how to control herself she’ll win easily

@@aby8258 josie had dark magic lizzie didnt and remember josie also had lizzie dark magic and lizzie was holding back like Alyssa said

Krisstina Wilson wym Lizzie wanted to defend herself she started to siphon first and was the first one to cast the spell.

@@darkmagicianmagi8237 doesn't Lizzie always siphons things when she gets mad? Or am I imagining things?

Krisstina Wilson umm no Lizzie was mad and Josie defended herself not the other way around

i’m josie siphoned a dresser not the entire school...

@@hannah1127 she is siphoning from the mantle which is attached to the building itself. Just noting.

Exactly. I was about to comment this. As far as how this might relate to the Merge: I know the merge is not only about how much magic the twins have, but also their will to win, but their amount of magic also matters. So, what if one of them just siphons a LOT of magic before the merge, that would give them a huge advantage. Also, if we try to think of another possibility... We've never seen or heard of two Siphoners doing the merge. So wouldn't they both just siphon each other?

Great music yessss I think Julie need to clear a lot of things up about the merge because it’s start to get a little confusing and it’s not clear on exactly how it’s going to go down haha

josie siphoned the dresser

@@Music-rd3xq it's more about their sill with magic rather than how much magic they posess

You know that The book is from Esther right there is more magic in it then The holle building but josie still beat her ass down

Zoey Williams I’m sure Josie only won because she was able to maintain the spell due to her getting power from the school itself since magic runs in the school(a lot of power). While Lizzie was only able to siphon the “enough” magic that was found in the book that she was holding until it ran out.

No Lizzie said that stuff cus she was mad Josie finally realizing her power instead of hiding she is stronger

I think they are pretty equal when it comes to strength, as of now. I think that the true determinant is going to be who is more willing and committed to killing the other. Josie has more resolve right now because she knows that it is about survival and she is also just pissed at Lizzie. As for the other part. Yes, I do think Josie hides on the shadows because she is afraid of being herself and has zero self confidence but, even if no one is putting a gun to her head, family dynamics play a large role in who we become. Having a sibling like Lizzie (especially a twin) who has always received more attention and who is so overwhelming and needy inevitably causes the more sound sibling to be overshadowed. Once you become used to those patterns (that are developed in childhood) they are really hard to see and change. Not saying that they both don't contribute to the codependency. These developed patterns are the same reason that Lizzie is the way Lizzie is, she has always been allowed to run the show and has gotten attention by having meltdowns. Josie has promoted Lizzie being the selfish and larger than life just like Lizzie has promoted Josie being subservient and small. Honestly, the largest amount of fault falls on their parents. They make no effort to break these patterns or to encourage the twins to take space from each other so that they each could develop identities seperate of each other and find their own autonomy.

@@tracefaceta869 lizzie stated straight facts and you know it and josie isn't stronger she was still syphoning when she attacked if lizzie really wanted to hurt her she would've just like alaric said in the alternate universe lizzie became obsessed with winning and couldn't control herself anymore then she eventually let it out killing josie lizzie always lets out her anger through her breakdowns but josie has alot of it just built up so ofcourse when she let it out it would come off as if she's stronger but keeping in that much anger can be bad if they merge lizzie would win because josie's magic could possibly overwhelm her

Fèñny no I think they’re more equal than anything but I think Josie is stronger still Lizzie’s power is manipulating Josie into thinking she’s not but if Josie really realized how dormant she’s been and gets angry she’ll beat lizzie

they both won't be able to kill each other, the one who will lose is the sister who is willing to sacrifice themselves for their sister and based on Lizzie and Josies love for each other, its 50/50

@@penmaryangg2767 In fact Josie might kill Lizzie so I would say it's 70/30

I think Lizzie will win because Josie is actually starting to act like a bitch so and more like the old Lizzie so Lizzie's hatred for Josie will grow and she will kill her like she did in the alternate timeline

I don't think Lizzie would win because she's so much sensitive that it actually troubles her life. Even if she would be the stronger in power and in magic I don't think she would win. She's so insecure, she thinks she's broken and that makes her think she's weak. (Even tho I don't think so. To me the twins are Mutual Assured Destruction. But I respect your opinion). Josie is pretty confident. It doesn't look so but she is. Even if she doesn't step up she still has a sense that that's nothing wrong with her. She gets to be the "normal" twin when her sister is the messed up. She gets to be liked when people gossip abou Lizzie. And she knows that she can get anything she wants if she tries. She just chooses not to. But now she is choosing to speak up and that gives her power. I really don't want them to merge cause a love them both. Lizzie is my favorite tho and seeing her the way she sees herself must feel pretty sad.

I don't think it is such a clear cut. As you said it's not only about strenght but also personality. I find it really difficult to say which would win becuse they both deeply love each other (despite their problems) and they both have some fragilities. Lizzie tries to catch people attention because, as you said, she is deeply insecure and, despite her tendency to be selfish she would give her life for Josie, no question asked. But so would Josie. Yes, in this episode we saw her starting to acting out (both becase she needs to express her sadness for Penelope and her anger toward her situation for Lizzie) but that doesn't change the fact that for all herlife she negated her own desires for Lizzie, both suffocating herself and, at the same time, hiding behind Lizzie's own choices. This one episode doesn't negate the fact that Josie has difficulties to stand up for herself. She is selfless but, at the same time, she is also a coward. Lizzie was both right and wrong . A part of Josie may have hid behind Lizzie, because she had done it for so long that it was too difficult for her to change. But another part did so because she really didn't think she deserved the attention, believing Lizzie needed it more and that it would be just selfish of her to attract any. Remember that when Josie sang in the lyrics it was said "standing in the shadows, thinking I had earned it",. Yes, latest episodes indicate that Josie will try to change this situation, but that doesn't change who she had been for all her life. And following the concept "they are still young, Josie is obviously changing" doesn't mean much becaue thee same can be applied to Lizzie. In the time of the merge (22 years old) they both could become much sronger and confident. But as they are now, I think it's too diffiult to say who would win because I see both girls having some insecurities and flaws, they both love one another deeply (so they would never try to actively kill the other one) and it's not exctly clear what truly affects the merge. Does raw magic power and the control you ave over it have an influence? Does the presence of a mental illness influence it? Does the emotional state of the moment have any effect (ex:anger)? Does the desire to live have any effect?

Periodt

I thought it would be Josie also, but I’m remember Kai. You said that the Merge is more than just power. It’s about other factors. Let’s apply that to Kai, who was... so many things. He won the Merge, despite having malicious intent and insatiable hunger for power. What happened to Kai could happen to Lizzie. In the first episode of Legacies, Rick had already stated that Lizzie inherited that characteristic from her mother’s side of the family, specifically referring to Kai. Also, Josie and Lizzie are complete opposites. It reminds of one line in the Batman movie. The Joker said, “An unstoppable force vs an immovable object.” It’s called the Irresistible force paradox. It is represented in the twins right now. What happens when you have a smarter, more skilled and controlled twin pitted against a twin whose power unleashes uncontrollably like Kai, who had proven that such a method can win in a Merge? That’s why I think it’s too soon to predict. If anything, I feel bad for them. It’s a burden they didn’t ask for. I’m hoping to learn more about their coven as well because Josie mentioned that the Merge practice happened in the first place because of a curse. As proven in the TVD universe, there’s a way out, like loopholes.

if that were true she would not have attacked josie first

also saying she was shocked was only because she was shocked josie fought back lizzie would always run over josie and josie would take it so when josie fought back lizzie was shocked she did

You were right

Neither Josie or Lizzie are the evil twin. Besides Lizzie started siphoning first. Josie defend herself. She sacrifice everything for the other and put herself second.

@@akeemguy3816 it seems that the majority of the fanbase just can't accept this about her

I get that Penelope was biased, but she could have approached the situation a lot more differently, like calmly talking to hope or lizzie, or even telling alaric what was going on. instead she's trying to force josie to win the merge. if it were to happen that way, josie wouldn't be the same person after that

EXACTLY

Levi Oliveira I feel like the reason Josie does this is because she has learned to be the shadow and blames her sister for that but like Lizzie said Josie wants to be the shadow but Josie doesn’t want to admit it so she makes her sister look like the bad one. I still love them both ❤️

Yeah, Josie need to aknowledge her own role in her misery and their relationsip. I'm glad this episode it was aknowledged that they are both wrong, and I hope that Josie will aknowledge it too,. I really hope she will admit her own fault and take her own responsabilities. As you said they both are wrong and it's time they both aknowledge their mistakes and try to change their relationsip because it's the best for them. Not ebcause they are hurt or guilty, but because they recognize that it's wrong and unealthy.

Levi Oliveira I’m glad someone said it because Josie stans are delusional and always want to downplay her wrongs. Lizzie and Hope are the most complex character to see and to play....also Penelope

@@Stefan-fe8lz tbh, I find stans of both characters negating their mistakes. Josie stans see her as this poor victim with no role in her own unhappiness. And Lizzie stans hate Josie and blame Josie for all the problems in their relationship. I loved that it was acknowledged that it was both their fault and they both have a role in the problems of their relationship.

@Little Symphony Yea, they are taking things so seriously and they are immediately offended if you criticize for a moment their favourite character. Whenever I criticize a bit Lizzie, Lizzie stan immediately accuse me of hating Lizzie and being a Josie stan 🙄. I mean, I like both characters, but that doesn't mean that I will defend them in any and all situations or pretend they are perfect little snowflakes. At first I found the whole thing a bit annoying but now I've just let it go and just laugh about it all (one of the best choice I made😂)

EXACTLY! i really want to see lizzie do more magic on her own like josie does

Davidas Davida If you say so...also power comes from objects and Josie is siphoning the whole school...while Lizzie is using a book. Holding in doesn’t have to do with you can make more damage. Like I’ll always say...the writers not going to put this out there just season one when the series is basically focused on this and on Hope. Let alone things are not always what it seems. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and assumptions. So you have yours and I have mine.

@Davidas Davida Well to be fair Lizzie can't hold things in for that long. After all, she is bipolar

facts josie has more knowledge in magic

@@Stefan-fe8lz josie siphoned a desk not the whole school and lizzie siphoned esthers grimore the same book that made the originals so if anything lizzie had the stronger magic source

Lmao ikr😂 Everytime Josie mentions how terrible & needy Lizzie was when they were kids kills me everytime I remember TVD

And as a matter of fact the jennie said that lizzie wont remember everything even the jennie itself .. if everything goes back to normal .. but it doesn't change the future that she will get josie killed .. and thats what the jenie said ..

If josie turns heretic she Will be kai 2.0

Can y'all stop about who is stronger, this is why siblings aren't close together because of u people,trying to compare them.

Well his magic never hurt anyone, but we do know that he is capable of going face to face with another person and using his sign in a heated situation. (It's made very clear to us throughout the story that Lizzie and Hope had dueled "magic" before just because they didn't have really damaging spells doesn't mean the intent wasn't there. Lizzie harms through the words, actions and decisions she makes...just because she doesn't cast magic on others doesn't mean that the selfish, calculating way she thinks doesn't hurt others worse than any arsonist. Both sisters are capable of dark things but in different ways.

Not even shocked. but *SHOOK*!

Broooo😂😂😂😂😭😭that is funny

Omg this is exactly what I was thinking of

nah Josie is just like Kai they are both crazy and deal with the same issues and Josie is like her mum Jo, remember when Luke and Kai siphoned that's how it is now, Luke is exactly like Josie and Kai is exactly like Lizzie and he won Luke

@@treasureikpea josie is becoming kai 2.0

greentiger more like Kai 0.5 😂

@@aintthatchachii 😂😂yeah she has the sweetness and kindness from luke and jo but her crazy's hurting people on purpose i hope we see more of that in the next season

@@aintthatchachii I think josie's actually a mix of the damon (quite patient and reasonably good at faking emotions) and klaus (constantly shifts between "caring" about others and hurting them in some way) varieties of sociopathic behavior.

Georgia U Lizzie is trying to further victimize the victim. Josie is a caring person and tries to help her sister. She isn’t afraid to be herself but she dials it down sometimes so Lizzie doesn’t fly off the handle. Josie is the victim. How is it self victimization as I guys claim if Lizzie made Josie the victim? I was waiting for Josie to tell her sister off as she did last episode and for this fight to happen. Lizzie’s main “supporter” knocked her down a peg; literally. Josie is done with Lizzie’s nonsense and Lizzie needs to accept that. She only tried to pull that sneaky remark of hers bc she had the audacity to get mad at Josie for being mad at her. Josie is one of the unfortunate spectators of Lizzie: The One Woman Show. Josie’s Emancipation ( or as u guys call it Josie’s self victimization) is the beginning of Lizzie’s long time awaited downfall. Lizzie is a bitch, pain in the ass that must be stopped. As seen when Josie dropkicked her in this clip.

@Cybelle They are not entirely co-dependent. Josie stands on her own. Ad helps Lizzie when she asks. But Lizzie asks for said help most to all of the time.

@Cybelle Thank you. A much better way to put it.

Yep Josie, Josie tried to play the victim. But 90% of her problems she caused herself but she rather blame her problems on other people then try and better herself and fix. And she rarely ever takes responsibility for them unless she has to. Like her burning Hope's room blamed it on Lizzie, avoiding Penelope and blaming Lizzie when Penelope Josie hell Penelope even say that if she would have been honest about her feeling she would have stayed. Josie cries about being the victim but she is not a victim. She is a stupid teenager that blames the problems she caused on other people. She is a lot things a liar, manipulative, a bitch, and very spiteful. But she is definitely not a victim.

@@thomaswest2583 facts 💯💯💯

Did you watch the show josie never told lizzie she has feeling for Penelope josie kept talking about pene so how can lizzie know josie feeling

You are so right. Josie sacrifice her happiness for the others especially for her sister and she gets the hate. It doesn't fair that way.

andreya salazar Agree. Any witch can throw someone across a room when they are angry. Josie was filled with hate meanwhile Lizzie was only upset.

I think they are both weak when it comes to fighting at each other since they are sisters, you cant kill someone you love, unless your Kai 😅

I hope josie does't become fully kai

greentiger she already is she just hides it well

@@arielmorris4138 ik but what would happen if she turns into a vampire and her emotions would be heightened would she be able still to hide her darkness that would be really interesting

@Lavie Freeman I think Lizzie is stronger also

lizzie could have siphoned from the school aswell

@@jaesvm but she wasnt really close to any part of the school, she used what was closer.

Finally somone said this sorry for bad english i am from Germany

Um, Josie lost

Carlos Daniel Souza wait what do you mean?

@@laurenluv2389Joise absorbed the school while lizzie absorbed the book

lizzie could have siphoned the school

And also cause lizzie held back .

I do

Lizzie killed Josie in the alternate timeline

well if lizzie had one of her psychotic episodes in that moment she could have easily won the clash

hacker playz Josie probably didn’t fight back or fight back with her full power bc she’s always cared about Lizzie and is always the selfless one

@@sickradrat1664 yah and just like how Lizzie was trying to make up with Josie so she probably didn't use her full potential either

Josie is not stronger. Lizzie just hesitated and held back.

It's shown in 2x04 that lizzie didn't have any reaction to the dark magic

@@TheMarkmcr that doesn’t change anything that I said😅 Josie is, in no way, weaker than Lizzie and that’s a reality🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

its not just magic, but will power, and their skills as witches. so far we know that josie is more detail oriented and level headed, but lizzie knows how to unleash her anger/power. the merge might also come down to which person wants to sacrifice themself, or which person wants to kill the other more. so its not just the amount of magic they both have, but other stuff factors into who is stronger or the better witch

That's actually what cowards do, lol.

@@kemurikageazula3513 it's always the quiet ones that surprise you not cowards

What makes josie evil is that she caused a fair amount of trouble herself (and plays the victim when exposed instead of apologizing), and for all her talk about helping people, she's generally terrible at it. Her instinct is to react with anger when what people really need is compassion.

No she won't jinni said that history would repeat itself and lizzie would kill josie all over again and also just because josie was angrier doesn't mean that she's stronger

@@FeNny136 but lizzy is a walking basket case...mentally i still think josie would be stronger but they'll probably find a loop hole and possibly both will survive

@@TA49753 but if they don't it's obvious that lizzie will win she had years in controlling her rage while josie took a back seat lizzie was also the better syphoner as kids and whilst josie has more experience with magic she doesn't know how to control her emotions and she'll panic which will make her magic eventually overwhelm her in the merge these are the exact odds with kai and luke all over luke had more magic experience and will to live than kai because he was practically raised to lead the coven but in the end he got overwhelmed and the walking basket case won like jinni said history always repeats itself so they need to find a loophole NOW

Josie will win in that universe Josie was still under Lizzie’s shadow now Josie is becoming her own person and more confident.

Lizzie started to siphoning first. Josie wasn't the selfish she is the selfless one because she put everyone besides her and sacrifice everything for them

True, true.

That's mean the twins sisterhood is one of the things that make this show interesting

Ikr

So true

everyone is whiny though, no one can escape the green monster (jealousy) especially when it comes to our sibling/s.

And Lizzie is toxic

She's a total mary sue. She has all the complexity of a rock.

Damn i hate julie plec for doing this

Damn i hate julie plec for doing this