Aside from its complexity, another issue that didn't do the game any favors was FF's stubborn adherence to the "we-must-produce-six-packs-per-cycle" distribution model. Part of the appeal of a fixed, expandable model is that it doesn't need to rely on "commons bloat" to artificially elevate the value and rarity of other cards in the pool (because there is no rarity, so to speak). However, Tyler Parrot and co couldn't seem to reliably produce a cycle's worth of interesting or viable cards, so some portion of each cycle would end up feeling like throw-away cards or unnecessary commons bloat. Additionally, at times, it felt like cards (a la new mechanics or keywords) were being introduced without the necessary development or follow-up support across cycles, which resulted in potentially interesting cards/ideas that lacked viability in most deckbuilds.
yeah, though I only kept up for the first year of the game, the Dragon Clan suffered a lot from that, none of their mechanics were followed upon, and basically every other pack would introduce some gimmick to them... and, to make it worse, the Skirmish mode removes almost every dragon card from play because their gimmicks depended on mechanics that were removed from Skirmish -.-
My favourite card game! Gutted it's ending. So multilayered and engaging. Enjoyed it so much more than MtG. Still gonna buy whatever they release, just because there's no more releases I'll still be playing it with friends.
It would be a dream to see FFG produce a L5R co-op LCG. The world of Rokugan has so much story-telling potential, I think would be perfect for a campaign style co-op card game.
What really sucks is when this game was released my store got it. And it blew up it's one of my favorite games to play period but over time our tournaments got smaller and smaller. And it was just really hard for this game to compete with games like Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic. It's sad because it's just the other day a group of kids was asking me about it play wanna learn to play it and they want to get into it and I was like well I mean you can but the games kind of over. I told them if they buy cards I'll teach them to play and we can have our own little group that plays but there won't be much a tournaments anymore.
At first I was really sceptical about FFG taking on the old L5R, but I have to say, the work they've put in this one is absolute wonder! We can find the essence of the old, with new inspirations that comes from their previous games such as call of cthulhu and star wars lcg for exemple, and mix those with old AEG format and cool new ideas, which, overall, makes this L5R lcg, a really good versus game! Also, The artworks are most of the time, absolutely splendid! I have to mention aswell the really neat "restricted / ban" list which was really well done on this game, avoiding some massive erratas. And allowing a smother deckbuild and balancing the game in competition. Great job there IMHO. The weak point for me, are, of course -the license, which is personally one of my favorite of all time! That I can understand, might not be as attractive as star wars or marvel... (even if I personally prefer L5R ^^) -the game length, that could easely be around 2, 3h on your first games.. And later on, between 35 (if you concede the game) to 1h30 easely... Well for a competive game, I defenatly, unfortunately, feels that even if I love the game so much, is a bit on the longer side... -FFG has almost, never, never ever... Been a great follower on the tournament side.. Especially on long term, here in Europe, it was a fight to have tournament kits, which most of the time weren't event attractive. What I mean here. Is that FFG, don't know how to make real lo'g term structure for their competitive games. If we compare to some magic the gathering, which I found to be a really bad game nowadays (meaning that, the mana system is has been for years...) there's no match here.. The structure of mtg is stellar compare to any FFG tries... -in fact, I'm not even sure that FFG ever cared about those tournaments formats. Too much work for them I guess and not even enough players community to make them to make better perhaps? Anyway.. I never felt that FFG wanted a better tournament format to make their competitive games living through those events... -their bloody coreset policy... AkA, if you like the game and wanna be competitive : buy 3 coresets!!! God how I always hate and hated FFG for their coreset way of making money... Such a shame... À real shame.. So of course I can understand that right of the start, I won't blame any players feeling dumped by FFG as they discover that the might need 1 or 2 more 35, 45$ coreset to be complete... Shame on FFG there... Forever and Always! (only marvel changed this...) -Some clans left and lacking passion and balancing, nor should I say, lacking some great cards to even match the 3 loved factions... How dragons has always been left poor compare to lion clan for exemple... And they will never fix that now... (yes I love the dragons...) ---- Overall, a great game, that worth the invest (time) to learn and enjoy it. Wich got some lacking of course but also tons of quality. I wonder and also am a bit afraid about that "solo/co-op" they're bringing with that very last fu leng expansion... And Wich seems to me, to be... Hmm.. Cold? As it just gonna concentrate on the military aspect of the game (forget about glory and dishonor wining there) (you will win if the enemy deck runs out of card, or if you kill 5 the boss) (how said it's Aeon's end??? ^^) -a bit strange how FFG is now trying to turn their games co-op... Maybe as you said they realize thei're just better at that and get better hooks on those. Wich I probably agrees as I myself, prefer co-op games to 1vs1... So overall I'm intriguing about that last expansion even if felt like a probably bad "mod" Time will tell, I hope I'm wrong and going to be surprised in the good way --- Speaking co-op, I'm also hoping a damn lot for a cooperative game with this l5r license!!! Like the "7 thunders" fighting alongside against fu leng during days of thunder ! That would be fantastic! Chose x heroes from the first 7 and play some boardgame with some great miniatures or standees! Would be awesome really! And the game would be called : L5R : DAYS OF THUNDER -- Funny that you didn't mention a really great territory game using this L5R license, already existing and that is really really good! : Battle for Rokugan! That game is great and is already a 7 clans fighting for the ultimate power! À game that is not known, but really nice that it should be on any shelf replacing any of those old RISK games... Cheers from belgium
It feels like there is trouble behind the scenes at FFG for sure, but they did just announce a new expansion for Arkham Horror 3rd Edition, so I am hoping there is still life in this once great company.
Fantasy Flight risk people not wanting to invest in their future card games. What is the point if they shut them all down, or make it nearly impossible to obtain the packs...... FFG needs to regain their independence, else exist as a mere vassal of Asmodee, and fall further into decline.
I loved playing L5r competitively but the different power creeps and the cards that didn’t go through proper testing were the issue that killed the game. Scorpion and crane were my two favorite clans. Scorpion was a fun one because of its different win condition but that is also what made the game tough is having to build you deck to combat other threats and still have ways to deal with the weird clans. I will miss this game but covid killed it pretty bad. Playing online was fun for a while but overall couldn’t keep her afloat.
I played the AEG L5R CCG since Imperial Edition (also an AEG L5R RPG player) and refused to play the FFG version after they made thr decision to retconned all our lore and story away, so IMO splitting the fanbase contributed to its lack of uptake with players.
I didn’t even get to see my champion printed as Emperor in the final set, they only released it as a PDF. Then to see the story get gutted; cards and ttg, tournaments and short stories, that game LIVED on its Lore. I was Spider, and Dragon, from when I started, and lotta people didnt like that, but I loved every bit of every custom in every clan. And they ripped it all away.
Sad. This game puts other card games like MtG to shame. Bought into it to play amongst a circle of friends and never looked back suck a great game. Their only pitfall was the shoddy implementation of rally and counters (rally was broken and counters should cost 0+fate-1 of the card you’re cancelling). Can’t wait for a coop and solo mode though!
I think the problem with Legends of the Five Rings is that there doesn't seem to be a strong entertainment franchise underpinning it. Much as I resist games coming off movie franchises Marvel and LotR have a very accessible player buy in. Most people have seen one of the movies so they can grasp those games better and are more likely to pick up those games in a store. I think that five or ten years ago people were more open to worlds that just exist for a game but now I do think people are more franchise driven. FFG did do something smart with their Arkham Horror line in that it's Cthulhu but with their own characters that have continuity throughout the various games. Cthulhu gaming has held and maybe even gained some traction during 2020 so that could still work out. It does feel like the parent company wants to sell FFG now the they have sucked the should out of it. I fervently hope that they can reverse the fortunes of the company by going back to simpler games (without bloody apps). I think there is a place for their older large scale board games but without minis which are expensive to produce. Dare I say it even as a Brit, if they could move production back to the USA and out of China things might look better, they could even go with a buy US made games angle. I think the pandemic has shown that producing stuff (including books) overseas is a nightmare when things go this wrong. Games Workshop moved most of their production back to the UK recently and it makes things much easier to control and forecast, even though we have been in lockdown most of the year.
Biggest problem of L5R is that it was produced by FFG. All of their competitive card games were killed. Android Netrunner, Call of Cthulhu, Star Wars destinies etc are some of the games that died because FFG decided to.
I was never able to get into the FFG version. I had played the real version since Scorpion Coup. They should have kept it more to the original, and less about including tons of stuff in a box. I hope they do right by L5R.
As someone who bought one copy of the core deck, sat on it for YEARS because of vision issues (why the HECK did they need to make the font at the bottom of the card so tiny and stylized), I'm now trying to pick up the add-ons and other decks. But my approach to the game isn't that I'm going to make a deck and go challenge friends, ala MTG or Pokemon style. I'm looking at building a game that I can grab the box and head over to a friend's house to have a fun afternoon with everyone playing form the same set of cards. This is similar to other card games, like Munchkin and Killer Bunnies where one box is all you need to play with friends. Granted, you still have to build decks, but it can be fun to sit and socialize while trying to strategize how you're going to curb stomp the person on the other side of the table.
I don't think this is that strange at all! I know many Magic players who make pre-con decks that are balanced to be relatively fair against each other. This way they can play with others who may not have cards, but are up to play a game. And its much easier when the game is over, as you don't have that FOMO of "Oh man they just released a new card that would really push this deck" and then wreck the power balance you worked so hard to make.
What I was thinking.... why not to take the model that wizards choose - all the card games FFG did (and some of them are really Great), also create digital versions. So people can enjoy both. With this COVID shit it is difficult to sell only paper especially when we can not meet. I bought a lot of cards for Lo5R but could not find anyone to play with.
I never played L5R, but I have played a few of Fantasy Flight's properties, notably LOTR LCG. They always seemed, as a company, to put out ton of new stuff and not support it with rare exceptions like LOTR LCG, and let them fade.
Maybe it means they should stick to SOLOABLE/CO-OP LCGs (and make a Terrinoth, L5R and Android ones) rather than joining the ranks of the dozens of TCG/LCG/CCGs constantly being eclipsed by MTG, Pokemon and YuGiOh. I mean, people are STILL buying LotR, AH and Marvel LCG content. None of those IPs interest me but I like the look of them mechanically, and hope they make one with a setting that interests me one day. 🙂
I really wish they would do more with runebound 3rd edition I loved that game and not very many games are like it. I have everything for it thank goodness because the co op expansion is super expensive on secondary market.
I will miss the game very much dont know yet if i will continue with anything they bring out in the future for l5r. I love the ccg from AEG and this one as well but this one feels so soon to be cancelled compared to how long the ccg one lasted I am left wondering how long would future L5R projects last
I just wish they would do some LCG with their Star Wars license ... or doing a 2nd Edition of the Star Wars LCG I think Star Wars would do much better than all their Marvel licensed games which are not that huge sellers here over in Europe
I would love to see a Marvel Champions/Arkham Horror take on L5R, I would play that! The main issue was that it took too long to play a match of the LCG. They should have come out with Skirmish mode first, then expanded to Stronghold mode later.
After Android: Netrunner they close another game... To do what x-men game? Mha The coop mode can be good but of course need to be evaluated since is not the core mode
I don't think LCGs can sustain tournament play. As much as people grumble about needing 3 core packs for a full set, the CCGs still far outsell LCGs. CCG fans carry on buying product long after set release - the gambling of 'loot boxes' and rarity works. For tournament play, you need store support, and there isn't enough of an economic incentive for that with an LCG. FFG is a board game company, and LCGs should be aimed at the boardgame market, with expectations to match. That's probably why Arkham Horror LCG is doing so well. It fits much more with board game + expansions format, rather than the 'buy everything to remain competitive' tournament card game format.
Indeed it does! If you're still interested in the game, you could potentially get a Core Set (possibly for somewhat cheaper - at the present moment anyways), the Clan Pack of your favourite Clan, and Under Fu Leng's Shadow and enjoy the solo mode with a smaller cardpool. Granted not having access to a complete collection will make beating the shadowlands much more difficult. But perhaps they will offer varying difficulty levels for the solo/co-op mode (similar to the Arkham Horror LCG) to compensate for this!
I am a new player in this game. The theme is amazing,the cards maybe too busy, the complexity is spot on. Only FFG can mess this up so badly over and over again. Any LIVING card game should have more modes of play, L5R with its complexity could easily be used for it. FFGs LCG system just does not work. You cant make a living card game and then not provide all the materials for it. This is why I never bought anything from FFG. If they can't deliver all the products for LotR then they won't get my 5k or whatever it costs. And forcing content out of the door so often is just no good for any game. If I need thousands of mediocre cards then I can just buy mtg commons in bulk for a few bucks and play pauper commander, horde, singleton, 4v4, archenemy, cube etc etc.
I would love for them to spend some time doing an Android LCG like Arkham Horror. Lots of great stories to tell in that universe. I don't really care much for LOTFR.
I guess I could go back and try to track the older packs down. Seems to be cheaper than trying to get all the LoTR cards and sets! Wow those are soooo many!
Completely mishandling Star Wars Destiny releases, and games not selling well such as Discovery: Land Unknowns. Then talent leaving like Lukas to Wizards of the Coast.
So I think a lot of this has to do with Asmodee. They want to focus flight fantasy on games and move roleplaying games to Edge Entertainment (also owned by asmodee). I suspect this product will go on hiatus for a while. If it does re-emerge I think it will be either a true TCG or become a series of board games. Looking at their current roster (excluding the TTRPGs) they have some very strong product lines, Arkham Horror is a pretty strong IP and their Star Wars seems very strong in profitability. I think they want FFG to get focused on these heavy hitting IPs and become a powerhouse of profit for Asmodee, while this Edge Entainment inherits the low performers (TTRPGs and minis). Asmodee can then more easily move resources around to keep things running smoothly. All this to say, I'm not sure this was FFG's call and Asmodee is probably the reason for the changes we're seeing. Sad the game got cancelled though...
L5R is a great game. My wife and I love to play it casually with our limited card pool. But for a competitive card game you need a large community base that buys product continually. I don’t think it had that.
@@kriskenmonroe1 Gotcha. There definitely is a following. I guess I was just comparing it to something like MTG and my local gaming experience. I'd mention it and people are like what? I've never heard of it! I do think it's a shame they're killing it off.
Everything is far from complete. They moved most of the designers off a year and a half in. We were left with one, who couldn't do the job alone. No rotation, desperately in need a core 2.0 which they cancelled rather than release. Basically, it was mismanaged entirely, and probably too complex from the start. So yes, it was doomed to fail. Ending now, in a messy state, probably the worst meta we have, and plenty of the community is still buying it. Oddly by the rough calculations it still felt profitable, but alas, maybe not. It didn't really have the new player entry route to get people in.
FFG has been getting gutted by Asmodee over the last year and a half. First, shut down the rpg division and move the rpgs over to Edge. Second, take away FFG's biggest money maker in the Star Wars miniatures games, move them over to a different european company. Third, shut down all the Forums. Fourth, shut down the L5R LCG.
They need to bring back the original 1995 Imperial and shadowlands. It was amazing fun and more popular in some shops than magic at the time. .. it eventually died when so,d off and new owners started a power creep issue in the game then started eliminating previous sets for eligibility in tournament play this upset many collectors and players..... This Abomination they have now that is not a ccg button lcg is a bastard child that should have never seen the light of day
Just ridiculous. Fantasy Flight is becoming an entire clown show It's really disappointing and I wish AEG would have never sold this off. They had already turned it into some what of an LCG with optional packs or 'full set' purchases. I can't see them continuing much with L5R. I'm guessing the license will end soon, and go back to AEG or somewhere else. I think in the end, they make 'board games' and the LCG hits a point where the 'board game' is complete
I was a player of this LCG... for the first year after it came out. The release of pack per month + the delay ti get them outside of USA (sometimes I would go 2 months without seen the pack I pre-ordered) had driven me away, and I was about to go back to it when I learned it had being cancelled. Well, if they don't just stop selling everything out of the blue, I will still try to grab the packs they are selling, since I hadn't aquired only 2 of the out of stock boxes, I should still be able to get the majority of the cards. As for other games... I didn't quite liked their Risk attempt (Battle for Rokugan), and though I love playing RPG in Rokugan, I despise the FFG RPG system and dice that they force upon everything... I much prefer 4th edition and D&D 3.5 ("oriental adventures") versions of Rokugan. Thing is, FFG is always trying to push a bunch of parafernalia with all their games (special dice that you can only get from them, honor tokens, fate tokens, honor bids etc) and that needs to stop. This kind of things work for a BOARD game, but not for RPGs and card games. Too many little pieces to take everywhere, it is just not doable. The whole point of card games is that they are easy to take around, you take some 60 cards and you can play anywhere, by adding a lot of little pieces to it you defeat the entire purpose of a card game... as for the RPGs, really, the FFg model just suck, the R&K was much better. Well, overall, I don't think the problem was the universe (the CCG survived two decades before being sold to FFG), but FFGs sale model. I don't know why they do it, if they are trying to be unique, if they are trying to make their players dependent on pieces only them sell so when they discontinue their games the community dies out instead of keeping playing it for decades on end, like the D&D 3.5 community that still play that system even though D&D is already on it's 5th edition, because all they need are a couple books (that by now they can legally pdf, since the game have being discontinued over a decade ago) and some dices they can get in any game store or if they are just dumb... but if I would point anything as responsible for their failures it is that. Keep. It. Simple. Stop pushing a bunch of paraphernalia just so we can play a danm game. EDIT: on a side note, I would like either a wargame or a zombicide-like L5R... though if the zombicide-like was a swarm of the Shadow Realms it would pretty much lock the game for Crab samurai IMO, so the wargame would be the best call. Is it FFG that produces the starwars x-wing and/or legion games? those two are wargames
For me the theming is amazing but the style of game was the turn off. If there was a coop more in the style of Arkham LCG but using this theme that would be appealing.
I like the title. What does this mean for FFG? Lol. Eventually the end probably as Asmodee have run the company into the ground. People have left the company, been sacked, games gone. FFG gone!!!!
