Well done! I especially like your frank discussions during reviews of a system’s potential shortcomings/issues; in this case the file sizes produced, slower buffer rate, and memory card limitations. Looking forward to tomorrow’s live stream!
Many other channels already threw their version of a M10 introduction video's at me and some even called it REVIEW (showing 4 pics hehehe) and they were not much more than reading the spec pages but I have to admit , this is the best, down to earth and most informative video by far, so far. Good video and thanks for sharing
Hey David, that's a great short review and simply the best available now for the new M10-R. It answered many of my questions which I did not find from the live streamed launch yesterday. I believe many of us out there would love to hear what Josh and you think about the image quality, especially in low light high ISO situations, from the M10-R with the current M lenses. RDF is my favorite RU-vid channel for Leica gear.....objective reviews and very professionally produced. Keep up the great work!
Great information as always. About the M11 naming. Based on the explanation here, why has the S007 not S007-R (for resolution) and named S3 then? Either way, it is now hard to imagine what the M11 could be different from the M10 series. Changeable viewfinder magnification? Rewind level as standard and improved LCD resolution and battery life? also, better Visoflex resolution and placement (one not hanging over the shutter dial) OK, that was just my wishlist. But this new sensor seems like a great improvement over the 24MP!
Yeah, I hope they announce a brand new Visoflex soon. The existing one is good but I think but there is definitely room for a jump in resolution and design.
Besides a new Visoflex design, Leica should add in body GPS, a „real“ bottom plate with integrated tripod socket for a permanently attached camera plate, an ISO-dial which doesn‘t have to be pulled upwards to operate, the classic off/single/continous/self-timer switch, a quicker shutter (1/8000sec, 1/250sec sync speed) and a faster Maestro III processor to the next generation M, the M11.
So are these things going to bog down the way the M8 and M9 did? I still have nightmares where I'm waiting for the red light to stop flashing while missing the moment.
Even with the increased pixel count, the Maestro II processor in the M10-R does a great job of churning quickly through files. Both the M8 and M9 used off-the-shelf electronics and often struggled with image processing. Once Leica went to their custom Maestro processors starting with the M240, the cameras become much more responsive. With the M10-R, image review, zooming and panning around images on the touchscreen is extremely quick and lag-free. Now, given the huge files, the buffer will fill after 10 shots. So, that's something to consider. If you are more concerned with speed and buffer depth, the M10 or M10-P might be the better choice. They still offer phenomenal image quality and 24MP is more than enough for many photographic applications.
Fitting all the components into the thin body of the M10 was already a significant engineering challenge. Currently, there is simply no room to fit sensor-based image stabilization into the existing chassis.
Hans Albers The M10 series is the most unusable camera for tripod operation on the planet besides the M 240 because of the lacking bottom plate with integrated tripod socket. It is just a joke almost like a compact camera that costs as much as a Leica leather strap.
@@Funktrainer Im guessing the only workaround then is to buy a third party half-case that sports a tripod bush, that might work. More expense of course but heyhow.
For those who defend the $8,000 price tag. Leica is now owned by an American Hedge Fund with deep pocket, otherwise they would be bankrupt by now. Just like Harley Davidson, its' core fan base is getting old and dying and the new gen will not care about a $8,000 Camera and a $5,000 lense. Cheers!
Leica is majority-owned by ACM, Dr. Andreas Kaufmann's holding company. He took the company private after acquiring over 99% of all the outstanding shares. You are partially correct that Leica was on the brink of bankruptcy, in 2004, prior to Kaufmann stepping in and implementing his long-term vision for the company. In late 2011 after a complete turnaround of the company following the very successful launches of the M9, S2 and X1, Kaufmann sold a minority 44% stake to the Blackstone Group for 165 million Euros. The cash infusion was used to build a brand new factory in Wetzlar. But, rest assured that Leica had been profitable prior to that investment and has continued to be, growing revenue considerably since that time. They are indeed very financially healthy. And most admirably, rather than pump money into marketing, most goes back into R&D efforts to continue developing camera and lens technology.
can someone explain to me the reason to buy a digital M? I mean if you want a digital leica just get the Q or SL, all full-frame cameras with modern tech. Digital rangefinder doesn't really make sense to me? I have a M6 and a Q, and other nikon DSLRs and mirrorless.
Ciao a tutti!!! Sono un fotogiornalista e per il mio lavoro quotidiano uso, addirittura, una vecchietta come la M9... lascio qui il link della mia long term review: il telemetro, il sensore ccd, la sensibilità che non arriva a cifre stratosferiche. Insomma al confronto con i prodotti che altri marchi sfornano, sembrerebbe una macchina "perdente". Eppure non è così. Il mezzo riesce a mettere in connessione i soggetti e l'autore in modo unico. In più è piccola e leggera. E le lenti (accoppiate al sensore) danno un valore davvero particolare alle immagini che si realizzano. Insomma, scegliere Leica non è come affidarsi agli altri marchi. Lo si fa, secondo me, per una decisione ponderata, perché si sa dove si vuole andare, verso che tipo di fotografia si sta puntando. Io non sono nessuno, ci tengo a mostrare qualche esempio (una rassegna di immagini scattate un po' in tutte le condizioni, bassa luce, foto dinamiche, ritratti di strada...) per dare una lettura concreta delle potenzialità. Le foto sono state realizzate con 28 Elmarit f2.8. Ciaooooo ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aHyz8DY-yo0.html . . . Hiiii everyone!!! I am a photojournalist and for my daily work I even use an old lady like the M9... Here I leave the link of my long term review: the rangefinder, the ccd sensor, the sensitivity that does not reach stratospheric figures. In short, compared to the products that other brands churn out, it would seem like a "loser" machine. Yet that is not the case. The medium manages to connect the subjects and the author in a unique way. Plus it's small and light. And the lenses (coupled to the sensor) give a very special value to the images that are made. In short, choosing Leica is not like relying on other brands. You do it, in my opinion, for a thoughtful decision, because you know where you want to go, what kind of photography you're aiming for. I am no one, I would like to show some examples (a review of images taken a little in all conditions, low light, dynamic photos, street portraits ...) to give a concrete reading of the potential. The photos were taken with 28 Elmarit f2.8. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aHyz8DY-yo0.html
Lovely intro to the M10-R . Looks to be a great option for those who have been staying away from the M system for want of more resolution. Are the M lenses designed to make use of this resolution ? Are there specific M lenses that would be recommended for the M 10 -R ? Thanks
Modern M lenses should out-resolve this sensor, particularly the 50mm APO Summicron. It wouldn't surprise me if the 50 Cron type V from the 90s outresolves this sensor, or at least meets it. The real issue will be accurate focusing at that megapixel count.
Many of the current M lenses will be up to the task. If you check out my M10 Monochrom review video (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XU4rjFXfupU.html), you can see that my standard kit of M lenses worked great. Those are the 18mm Super-Elmar ASPH, 24mm Elmar ASPH, 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE, 50mm APO-Summicron, and 90mm Elmarit. I can think of other high-resolving lenses like the 21mm Super-Elmar, 28mm Summilux ASPH, 75mm APO-Summicron and 90mm Summilux that would amazing on the M10-R. Ultimately, lens choice comes down to what your creative goals are, how much you're willing to carry and what your budget is. I'm sure we'll be covering this topic in some detail on our live Red Dot Forum Camera Talk episode tomorrow night: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ed1StTPUInI.html
Leica will not offer this service. Your best bet is to trade in your M10 for an M10-R. Check out Leica Store Miami. They offer 80% market value for trade-ins: leicastoremiami.com/pages/trade-in-form
I wrote a VERY in-depth review of the S007 when it came out in 2015. To really test the camera, I took it to Iceland for a 10-day solo trip. Here's links to the main review and the companion travelogue: reddotforum.com/content/2015/09/leica-s-typ-007-review/ reddotforum.com/content/2015/09/my-photographic-adventure-through-iceland-with-the-leica-s-typ007/ For video, you can check out our Red Dot Forum Camera Talk episode on the S-System here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ehi_MC6INeU.html Check the video description for a huge collection of useful S-System content.
I don't know if it's the case but it would have been nice to have all the improvements derived from the M10-P on the M10-R. But having said this, it seems that 40MP without IBIS starts to be tough, not to say complicated ! M10R or M10M + 50AA should be a great combo, but if pictures are blurry... (to be honest, that the reason why I left my M240 for a IBIS camera).
That is the case indeed. The M10-R features all the improvements of the M10-P. Same ultra-quiet shutter, internal level gauge and touchscreen functionality. You definitely have a point that the jump from 24 to 40 megapixels certainly requires a bit more steadiness to get the most out of the sensor and lens combo. In practice, I haven't had any issues with the M10-R or the M10M, as I try to keep a one stop faster shutter speed relative to my comfort level with the M10. For me, this means 1/125 at 50mm, which is easy to achieve given the M10-R and M10M's superior high ISO capability. In other words, keep your shutter speed up and you'll be fine.
Ok, a good review but am I any wiser? Not at all! We know that M10-P and M10-R are the same except for the sensor but what that means in practice? Can you get higher shutter speed shooting in a low light, if so by how many stops? What is the effect on battery life? Do you get noise? ......... You see what I mean?!
I don't understand why Leica is so behind the electronics side of things? ;( I used many brands over 15 years and own M10-R. Absolutely love the images and all BUT is there a REAL reason why it's so behind the market in comparison to oither cameras when it come sto software? I would have thought that would be the cheapest thing to fix comparing the prices they charge. I dont know man, maybe im wrong... ;(
I plan on doing a detailed image comparison as soon as Adobe releases official camera profile support for the M10-R DNG files, like I did with the M10 Monochrom: www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/05/bw-iso-showdown-2020-leica-m10-monochrom-vs-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m10-p-vs-sl2/
How does the M10-R compare to the M10 Monochrom in resolution? In other words how does the color filter affect image quality. Thanks for the great review
The M10 Monochrom should have a slight edge due to the lack of interpolation. But, where the M10 Monochrom really shines is in just how smooth the files are at low ISO and how well they hold up at extremely high ISO. The M10M is the ultimate low light machine.
If everything is the same except the sensor, I guess battery life is compromised - but by how much? Perhaps you could have a look into this before your livestream session on Saturday? Thanks a lot!
We've spoken to other photographers who have used the camera for a while and battery life in their experience is slightly shorter, but not significantly so. Maybe 10% less at most.
I have thoroughly enjoyed your video series.... It is easy to get fixated on megapixels..What is useful to me is the additional dynamic range which accompanies the improved sensors. There are so many nuance tones in scenes... and the newer (more dynamic range) sensors separate them better... it is like playing on a piano with only the white keys then switching to one with both black & white keys.
Agreed. Pixels aren't everything. Tonal nuance and dynamic range are just as important in total image quality. Sharing the same sensor architecture with the S3, the M10-R now offers 14-stops of dynamic range, with excellent color reproduction.
A check of your store web site shows some strange pricing for the various M models. For instance this new model with larger sensor and red dot is priced $500 less than the M10P with smaller sensor and no red dot. The M10R is only $300 more than the now lowly M10, again with the smaller size sensor. Will Leica be making any sort of price adjustments?
As someone who actually owned M Camera and lenses - unlike the keyboard cowboys - the biggest problem is the Price Tag. Leica should have achieved this kind of improvement with a reduced price tag, not increased. They are becoming untouchable due to the crazy stupid pricing. I walked out of 5 Guys because they jacked up a single patty burger to over $9 with no fries and drink. I got the $7, number 1 at Chick Fillet with coke and fries. That's what Leica needs. Be accessible to more people. $5,000 M 10 with 35mm Summicron is the magic number that will bring them more business and more Loyal buyers. Cheers.
- "Be accessible to more people" - Wrong ! - That didn't work for MANY other camera companies (now defunct). Allow Leica to exist doing just what it does. I like the exclusiveness that higher prices creates. - In fact, you sound like the typical peasant, you want 'Coach' prices with the 'First Class' service.😯 But if you think this opinion is too bourgeoisie, then pay for the cheap seats and go take that long walk back to coach...
I wonder what`s the market segment for an $8k stills camera? why not buy a 1DX or D6, or any other more powerful choice, even cheaper? please indulge me.
@@y2ktube so basically you pay $8k for the brand only, not necessarily performance? kind of weird, I`d understand that for shoes, a watch, etc but for a camera, I`d rather stick with iPhone special edition.
@@edward_rivas - "you pay $8k for the brand only" - Whatever; like trying to explain Rolex vs. a Casio😆 - Okay, it's pretty obvious that you've never even held a Leica in your hand. OR for that matter, can you appreciate the ULTRA high performance tiny jewel like Leica lenses. - In fact, the over $8,000 50mm normal lens called the ASPH Summicron, is not only considered the most "Perfect" lens ever made, but smaller exponentially than ANY Canon or Nikon lens...
Given that the m10 r features the silent shutter from m10 p. Will leica allow buyers to customize their m10 r such as removing the red dot sticker and have the Leica script engraved on the top plate instead??
Leica is somewhat tight-lipped on who makes the sensors for them. But we do know that the latest chip architecture, now used in the S3, M10-R and M10 Monochrom, is unique to Leica. And the offset microlens structure is designed in-house to optimize for the high-incident angle M lenses.
@@RedDotForum thank you for your reply! so M and S line still uses different sensor from Q2 and SL2 which are using panasonic sensors, do you know why they decided to go down this route? does SL2 also have the microprism lenses in the sensor? i do find the Q2 file having different color profile from the M, no sure if the sensor is causing this difference.
Great review, simple and thorough. In contrasting the M10-R (660 g) with the SL2 (825 g) I think you should mention that both the Leica 50 mm, f/0.95 Noctilux lens (700 g) and 75mm, f/1.2 Noctilux lens (1055 g) do NOT exist in auto-focus form. You can use those M lenses with the bigger, heavier SL2 body, but you'll need an adaptor.
Certainly a good point. I'd even argue that a Noctilux is actually easier to use on the SL2 than the M10-R. The more substantial grip and body balances more evenly with the large Noctilux lenses, and the high-res EVF makes focusing much more accurate.
@@RedDotForum I have the M10 and I usually have my 75mm f/1.2 Noctilux installed. Carrying THAT setup around for an afternoon of street photography is not a joke, it's heavy. "Easier to use," perhaps, but carrying around the SL2 with the 75mm Noctilux would not be MORE enjoyable for sure.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force I agree, unless it's on my RRS Tripod, my 10P and .95 Noctilux are together and on my neck 99% of the time, and that is enough total weight without adding another 200g,
SJ, the SL2 is also just a noticeably bigger camera than the M10. Add one of the big-diameter Noctilux lenses to the SL2 and you might as well add red, white, and blue flashing lights, too. Street photography is difficult enough.
Hi David, thanks for the M10R overview. I wonder why Leica hasn't used SL2 sensor, instead opted for developing a new one. Since, there is no big difference in terms of megapixels. It would be great if in future you can compare SL2 and M10R in terms of sensor IQ, Dynamic Range and ISO capability.
I don't know exactly why Leica has used a similar sensor in the SL2 and Q2 yet utilizes a different sensor in the M10-R and M10 Monochrom (and S3). Once official camera support is added by Adobe, we will be doing more testing.
No. The red dot covers the access screw for the top plate. The configuration is different on the M10-P which features a different screw attachment. Black electrical tape or gaffers tape usually works though. ;)
Who actually cares about the red dot in real life? Never had any issues with my M8 that doesn‘t has it covered up. Have been in all places of the world with it.
So everything pretty much worse or the same from the M10. Just added 40mp and hike up the price. Classic Leica. It’s insane that this camera still doesn’t come with IBIS.
The M10-R gets the same major improvements from the M10-P over the M10: ultra-quiet shutter, level gauge and touchscreen. Additionally, the M10-R's 40MP sensor improves high ISO performance and dynamic range vs. the M10. So, it's definitely improved all around. IBIS simply wouldn't fit in the existing chassis of the M10. It's too thin.
RedDotForum they found a way to put ibis in my tiny q2. they could have found a way to put ibis in the M10-R. Overall just very disappointed. A $8,300 manual camera with no IBIS = many missed moments to capture that special shot.
Just to clarify, the Q2 doesn't have sensor-based stabilization, or what we more commonly refer to as IBIS. It uses OIS, optical image stabilization in the lens. So, even though the Q2 and SL2 share much of the same internals, the IBIS-enabled 47MP of the SL2 still wouldn't fit in the Q2.
Getting a used M camera is a great way to get into the system at an affordable price. Depending on budget, I'd opt for a used M240 or M10 and start with a standard 35 or 50 Summicron. A combo like this can be had for less than the price of the M10-R by itself. And because depreciation is already baked in, you can often sell the camera for what you paid for it when ready to move up to the next model. Here's a great place to start your search: leicastoremiami.com/collections/used-m-system
Hi David, Leica is a preeminent company that understands the concept of photography as an art form. It is sad to see the other technology leading companies competing with one another on the number of k's and overheating issues. I have zero value for video, I need photography with advanced technological features, wider latitude, etc. Unfortunately, Leica is not a technology-leading company, it uses the technology available. And unfortunately, it is unaffordable. I think ergonomics is another element to consider. I think Leica should check canon 5r in that sense. I basically do black and white photography, and I hope Leica m10p will be available at a lower price. I wonder if Leica m10p does a better job than Leica m10r because of color interpolation. You might want to compare them in that sense in your future videos. Your nature lends itself to be a good teacher. I wonder if you have videos about the science behind photography. best.
I actually think that Leica doesn't get enough credit for the technology advancements that they have made in digital photography. Just because Leica cameras aren't laden with functions and features and menus upon menus of options doesn't mean they aren't utilizing the most advanced technology under the hood. The original SL introduced a 4.4 MP EVF that was unmatched for years by other manufacturers. Leica's optical technology found in the SL lenses is on a different level than anything before. Even their custom sensors excel. The co-designed CMOS chip in the S007 offered over 15 stops of dynamic range, unheard of in still cameras, especially five years ago. And as far as ergonomics go, I'd opt for a Leica body over a Canon or Nikon any day. The elegant simplicity and intuitive nature of the UI is a joy to use. And on a mechanical level, the solid all-metal feel is a very different experience from the more common plastic and rubber found elsewhere. As far as being unaffordable, I often recommend used Leica cameras as a great place to start. They offer a fantastic value and exceptional image quality. If you shoot black and white, I'd suggest taking a look at a used M246 Monochrom, which is still and incredible performer. Check out my B&W ISO Showdown to see how it stacks up against the M10, M10 Monochrom and SL2: www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/05/bw-iso-showdown-2020-leica-m10-monochrom-vs-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m10-p-vs-sl2/
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