I own a Bianca and I am loving it. I used many low cost coffee machines before the Bianca and they were also fine. The feeling I got out of your video is, "let me try to justify why this Opel Astra can also take you home from work, like your Mercedes-Benz S Class.. Both have tires, steering wheel, cushioning on the seats.."
Totally agree with you. At some point it’s really the experience of using it and not necessarily how much better the end product is…. There is a certain joy factor out of using a machine like the Bianca
Thanks Joe, this is interesting. There's a pretty big gap between these two machines. I've got a GCP and would love to have a Bianca. To be fair your Gaggia is $500 stock and it looks like you've got about $200 in upgrades on it. I've done some low cost mods and I'm very happy with performance. Learning how to maneuver the temperature rollercoaster gets you excellent shots without the cost and bother of adding a PID. I'D really like to upgrade to an E61 machine. The GCP is often referred as an entry level espresso machine. You could say that but one needs skills to get it right.
Yea I totally agree with your assessment. It would have been nice if gaggia would have just given you a readout of the boiler temp to gauge where your at but honestly it’s a great machine for what it was I really only added the pid to show others how to do it. I did a very well structured how to video on installing a pid
The Gaggia Classic was my very first machine back in 1993 or so. (Purchased in Italy while living in Germany) and it was a great machine. We are currently considering upgrading to a Bianca from a Salvatore HX, so this video was both nostalgic and informative at the same time. But now the question remains, how far have we really come in the past 28 years? Great video Joe!👍🏻
My first thought where, why in the world would you compare these two?! But yeah, you make some good points about the Gaggia. However, the Lelit is a beautiful thing to watch whilst the Gaggia isn't :')
Interesting comparison here. Obviously the Lelit is going to be more capable out of the box. Regarding your point on the puck channeling on the Gaggia... This really comes down to dialling in and puck prep. A simple one size grind fits all isn't really going to be a comparison at all. Besides we know that the Gaggia is fully capable of pulling a perfectly beautiful shot with 0 channeling with the correct grind and puck prep. Steaming on the Gaggia is going to get the job done, but truly, it will be beaten by any heat exchange or dual boiler machine as long as it's name isn't Breville. I find it is only "just" good enough.
Yeah I agree just good enough is a good way of putting it. I will say though that the gaggia is much more likely to channel then the Bianca just because the pump and pre infusion
@@JoeyVaracalli haha, I guess it wasn't built for that. There is a way to roughly simulate flow control and do a pre-infusion on the Gaggia though, by opening the steam line and diverting some water pressure out of the steam wand!
@@sAmiZZle82 yeah I know about that trick the only downside is you shouldn’t really go past 3 seconds because of how small the water tank is on the gaggia you will loose temp stability. But it’s a nice trick to get the job done
@@JoeyVaracalli Oh true, that's a good point! Ahhhh the little Gaggia... a great machine for the price, but if the factory just made a couple of minor improvements, it really could have been an even better machine for not much more money!!
I used the same grinder for both also plenty of people love conical burr grinders such as the niche zero or other higher end commercial grinders. Right now I’m using a df64 and a eureka mignon libra. It’s all personal preference though between flat burr taste and conical taste in my opinion
Surprised the Gaggia steam performance was so close especially with 2 hole vs 4 hole. I found the tip (amount of holes and size of holes) really affects steaming performance and time. The smaller hole or less hole ones take longer but I prefer it for small amounts of milk (I do 4oz or around 100ml). Which on my machine (similar dual boiler) is probably about 15 or 20 seconds.
So I'm buying a Lelit very soon (in like a month). I'll be switching from a GCP. I haven't done any modding to it. I may do a comparison of the two with the GCP being as stock as you can get. I find that not having the PID hurts the flavor some for sure, and I have to hack the machine a lot to chase the temperature. I can get decent steam on it though doing that. The shot flavors are definitely not drinkable as much without milk. It's tough to get a palate for espresso when they are all pulled at 11 bars and fluctuating temp. 🤣
Yeah unfortunately the machine needs modding to be great but if you do it and you can get great shots even without the pid really the big thing is changing the spring. The pid definitely helps though for sure
@@showmak I actually made some POV vids on my RU-vid if you want to watch! I'll type something up tomorrow though. It's been a great machine. Definitely my favorite.
@@showmak not at all. I don't even have it anymore
2 года назад
I bought Lelit Anna with PID (~500eur) year ago. I thought its gonna be good enough. But i found that to prepare even 2 cappuccinos, its a lot of work. After switching to foaming, i need to wait for temp to go all the way up, wait it to go down so heating starts again and then i can start steaming. If i want to steam multiple pitchers, i need to wait for this cycle that takes longer and longer (as the swings even out). Otherwise the texture is much worse. Compared to my local coffee shop, espresso coming out of my Lelit is much worse (even if he gives me water to take home). Its just that i cant get anywhere close in consistency and tasty shots are few and far apart. Its good enough for cappuccino, but not good enough for espresso. I really hope that Lelit Bianca will give me what im looking for. Its about 1800eur in here, so its not such a big price difference.
@@showmak I only have few small nitpicks (apart of waiting for it for a lot more than i expected). Drip tray is hard to clean - it has a lot of bends and overhang and the machine could have been a bit wider. Hot water spout is always in a way and i need to move it away every time i want to start the shot. Steam wand gets hot, but still OK to touch for a short moment after/during steaming. I made about 160 shots and i have new grinder, which is on the bitter side, so that is something i will fix with SSP burrs and BWT water filter (hopefuly). So i cannot comment on the taste that much, because that is something driven mostly by the grinder and water. As for the actual bianca, its v2 (there is new v3 now) and im very happy with it. I dont see myself upgrading or changing perhaps ever, or at least until i get filthy rich :) It makes great espresso and it gives a lot of control for the pressure(flow) to correct shots on the go. I like the experience of using the paddle, its fun. Using naked portafilter has been great validation and with WDT i 3d printed, shots are coming out very nice. It makes great foam in my larger pitcher(steaming ~300g of milk), but i wasnt able to make great foam in my smaller pitcher(steaming ~150g of milk). I am testing default 2 hole tip, i might try 4 hole later. The smaller pitcher is 2 euro random pitcher i bought long time ago, so it might be just bad geometry. I cannot comment on the heating up speed, i think its improved with v3, but i have wifi smartplug, so i start the machine whenever and just let it heat up for 30 minutes. When i compare Bianca to my Anna, its a insane usability improvement. I just hated pulling shots and then steaming milk with Anna. And as mentioned before, we mostly dring milk drinks. I can also reliably repeat shot taste on Bianca, something that was totally random on Anna. But lets not forget about the price, which is insane (at least compared to my country average salary etc). But hey, gotta Treat Yo Self sometimes.
I'd recommend experimenting with the temp on the GCP. I also looked at the manual and left mine at 216 cause they tell you that's 200 at the boiler but I never had the most satisfying results with that's. Last week I had thought I should try changing it because when I went to my local barista I noticed his espresso came out far colder than mine so I changed mine to 210 and I'd say the results are much better.
Depends what beans and roasts you use too. Light roasts need the higher temps to get a good extraction. Darker roasts don't require it to be as hot to extract the solubles from the coffee.
yeah i agree, i found the temp reading to be deceiving at some point because 212 is boiling and that cant be happening in the tank before reaching my puck at steam instead of water. I know it uses estimates on actual brew head temp and internal differences but ive been skeptical. i was using 208 and 209 on light roasts and was getting good results. also i think when changing the temp, there has to be a time period for "true" stability; and also not to mention the constant drop when brewing starts.
I believe in diminishing returns. I have a PID gaggia, but have a mara x on the way. Eventually I will go with Bianca. Am I drawn to the linea mini? Yes, but I just cant justify it. is it 2k better than the bianca? Probably not. Thanks for the videos.
You are absolutely welcome for the videos!!! I think high volume the linea would be nice but I think the overall espresso quality is more then likely better on the Bianca because of flow control
To me im taking the gaggia all day. Alittle better for 2,600 dollar difference. I have that same gaggia 9 bar spring better shower head bottom less portafilter better baskets all in 650 bucks im happy as 8 can be.
This is actually exactly what I was looking for. Already have on old Gaggia classic with PID and a good basket. (bottemless) Just making espresso only for myself. Rossi RR55OD grinder. Do have some money to spend but no need for milk capability, recovery time is not important. And was wandering how much quality I am missing because of the current setup. Still not sure how much the e61 preinfusion and stability help with my type of usage.
If you you're ok with modding ( you already have the PID), i would say lower your OPV spring setting and your will fine with your GCP forever. if you think you're missing something you can always purchase up later with all the money you would have saved. But those are just my thoughts. I moved to a BDB for its far better temp control at the group and also flow control with very easy mods. I still use my GCP from time to time. But i couldnt see going any higher if the machine isnt a dual boiler with PID, flow control, and have a pressure gauge.
@@dirkl216 Thanks for being so helpful! I also have 7 bar OPV pressure and updated shower screen. Let's hone my skills with the Gaggia and use it till it breaks.
@@joostwestra Honestly, i modded my GCP out: PID, 9 then 6bar OPV, IMS shower screen, brass shower plate, IMS and VST baskets with bottomless protafilter...consistency is much improved with the temp stability of the brass plate. With this set up it was very easy for me to see the differences in VST and IMS baskets especially with roasts "above" the dark to medium range. I don't think i would have learned as much if I had jumped into a more higher end machine. i can really appreciate quality hardware, roasters' skills, and process brewing options at shot time. Although this video was a wide range comparison, it was so on point for a look at a quality product to start a love with espresso and then progress to a great dream machine with the ultimate in features for price.
I don’t know what coffee you used for the comparison. In my experience, most Italian roasts, for example, extract so readily and have so little nuance in flavour that any machine should do well. However, if like me you enjoy ultra-light Nordic roasts, you’ll really need the features of the more expensive machine to bring out the best from the coffee and avoid a sour disaster.
Thanks joe, really useful informations for me about Gaggia Classic Pro. Your review definitely convinced me to buy Classic Pro just a few minutes ago. I'll mod pressure spring, change showerhead and the original basket with a professional one. I need only an advice from you on which better portafilter I'll have to buy: could you kindly help me regarding this topic? kind regards, Gianni
I know this video is a year old but I'm really curious. Does the higher end machine make the thickness of a shit different at all? Does is change the mouth feel?
Hello, what has been your experience about the differences in shot quality between the two machines with light roasts? I have a fully modded Gaggia and I’m really struggling to get the most out of some light roasts even after dialing in grind size and careful puck prep. My impression is that the small boiler isn’t capable to maintain the higher temperature needed for a high dose light roast shot. I even tried preinfusion and pressure profiling with the dimmer and pressure gauge but I can’t get close to what I have at the coffee shop with the same beans. I get that my modded DF64 is not the shop’s EK34 but I should be able to get the tasting notes and more complexity but my shot keep being on the underextracted side. Also I suspect the vibrations from the pump really can create cracks in The puck and create channeling. Seriously thinking of buying the Lelit just because I enjoy light roasts the most
@@JoeyVaracalli a DF 64 with stock italmill burrs that as far as I can tell with the marker test are correctly aligned. I removed the declumper altogether and use RTD with no static issues
I'm curious about How much time required to get brew Temp of Bianca and Temp Stability after Shots. If you don't mind, Could you check this out for me?
I can pull a shot directly after each other without even a degree of difference mostly because the broiler is just so much bigger then the gaggia. Also the pid will show you the temp so sometimes if it just got up to heat and I pull a shot you will see it change and go back up normally when that happens it’s just a few minutes to maybe 5 minutes
Hi, I have a GCP with PID and OPV modification installed but i can't get sweety balanced shots no matter what I do (tried so many different coffees, settings etc). Lelit distributor in my country made a great discount for Bianca down to 1700 €. Would you then recommend the upgrade? Thanks
I mean that’s a great deal. If you have the money it’s an amazing machine. As far as the gcp is concerned try lowering the temp to maybe 210 or lower and make sure the beans are fresh roasted 10 days old. If your doing all that and it’s not working we will have to go down a deeper rabbit hole
@@JoeyVaracalli Checkmark. I have done so many more than those actually:) I did temperature accuracy test for my PID kit (you may see from the video in my channel). I have a bottomless portafilter to check channeling, a gauge installed portafilter to check pressure (shades 10 bar spring shows 8,5 bars). But I never got a quality shot like from a coffee shop. I accept that my expectation is high but as I want to have more options than milky drinks I am searching for another option. Bianca will probably change the game however I can't decide if the difference is worth 1200 € without having the chance to compare both next to each other.
@@jakobw135 the ports filter basket is what makes the difference whether there is spouts or no spouts doesn’t make much of a difference in the extraction
@@JoeyVaracalli What are SPOUTS in this context? Doesn't removing the BOTTOM of the basket take away one of the filtration screens, and therefore, make it MORE likely that coffee grounds get into your cup?
@@JoeyVaracalli No...it is something else. I noticed it from the extraction moment since you put them in the same time. Surprisingly the gaggia has a nicer crema than the lelit. I think is the vibration pump vs the rotary
Why did you leave it at just one shot with both machines? Especially when the one from the Gaggia had channeling. You know channeled shots don't taste the same, can't compare them.
@@stinkybips the lelit if your grind size is right and you know how to do a nice preinfusion u almost never get it. On the gaggia you get is way more frequently
I think that would be an intresting thing to compare honestly. Base model Kia stinger vs base model boxster….. how much more car do you get for almost double the price. My thought honestly would be even less of a difference than these two espresso machines. In some cases it would surprise me if you get more features on the kia
