Hey there, fellow listener :) Have some timestamps. Also, link to the transcript below. 00:00 Sponsors 04:27 Introduction of Stan 08:32 How did Stan first become interested in psychedelics, and what application was he hoping it could serve? 13:18 In how many LSD sessions does Stan estimate he’s been involved, and what accounts for his initial conclusion that it would change psychiatry and psychology? 18:45 When did Stan have his first personal experience with LSD, what were the conditions like, and how did it change his career path from that point forward? 21:40 Why we don’t always have the right words on hand to describe psychedelic experiences. 25:22 After more than six decades studying non-ordinary states of consciousness, how does Stan view consciousness today (in comparison to some other equally controversial views)? 28:26 Why does Stan prefer the term non-ordinary states of consciousness to altered states, what are holotropic states of consciousness, and how have human beings operated in these states over the course of history? 37:43 Stan’s thoughts on 5-MeO-DMT (methoxy DMT) and the psychedelic venom of the Bufo alvarius toad - which gave him “by far, the most powerful psychedelic experience” he’s ever had. 44:42 Stan elaborates on his famous statement that “Psychedelics, used responsibly and with proper caution, would be for psychiatry what the microscope is for biology and medicine or the telescope is for astronomy,” and how he feels about the relevance of traditional psychoanalysis or psychotherapy in combination with some of these psychedelic compounds. 56:10 What would Stan’s ideal experiential, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy look like? 56:57 Stan points out that there are non-pharmacological ways to achieve holotropic states - such as holotropic breathing, which I can confirm actually works. 58:52 What substances, dosages, and frequency would psychedelic assistance take under Stan’s guidance? 1:03:30 Exploring the neglect of etiology in modern psychology and how Stan would correct this problem. 1:08:47 What makes the difference between someone emerging from a psychedelic state profoundly transformed or just experiencing it as a casual tourist with no persistent change of perspective? 1:18:07 Stan talks about his experiences with Siddha Yoga founder Swami Muktananda. 1:25:17 The reasons Stan wrote When the Impossible Happens, the stories surrounding this time in his life, and an explanation of synchronocity. 1:36:32 On out of body experiences and a moving example of how unorthodox psychiatry helped someone overcome depression in a surprising way. 1:44:34 What psychedelic at what dose is most similar to the effects or the experience of holotropic breathwork? 1:45:49 Does the common psychedelic phenomenon of encountering entities seemingly separate from the person in such a state carry over to breathwork? Has Stan encountered these entities during his own experiences? 1:51:18 What are Stan’s thoughts on microdosing, and what has he experienced at the tail end of high-dosage sessions? 1:55:15 What constitutes a “spiritual emergency,” and are there any differences between a naturally occuring spiritual emergency like schizophrenia or one precipitated by psychedelics? Can any good come from a bad trip? 1:59:25 What might treatment for someone experiencing a psychotic break look like in a hypothetical alternate world where the collective unconscious is recognized by psychologists and psychiatrists? 2:04:36 From his first psychedelic experience to now, how has Stan’s concept of the inner world changed over the past 60 years? 2:08:42 Is there any particular synchronicity or experience in any of the holotropic states that Stan has experienced that he finds the hardest to explain or the most unusual/remarkable? 2:16:33 If Stan were a young scientist starting out today and all compounds could be legally studied, what would his focus be? 2:23:34 At age 87, how does Stan stay sharper and more energetic than a lot of people in their 20s? 2:27:46 What does Stan think humanity needs most of all right now? 2:31:16 One final story: a lesson in forgiveness. 2:40:59 Parting thoughts. Copied from Tim's website: tim.blog/2018/11/20/stan-grof/ Converted using this tool: vilz.gg/timestamps Transcripts on Tim's website: tim.blog/2018/11/22/the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts-stan-grof/
Stanislav deserves more recognition for his life’s work. Truly. Going into his 90’s! he’s healthy absolutely cogent and Completely sound in his mind. Hes a delightful morning! His being is the brilliant light, he’s the Lamp Lighter!
THIS is how an interview should be done. Tim Ferris asked a lot of intelligent questions but without constantly interrupting, interjecting or taking away from the focus of an interview. You simply let Stan Grof speak. This was simply brilliant.
I have heard repeatedly that raves, and concerts are terrible, dangerous, and unfruitful places to do psychedelics. Dangerous, okay, sometimes. However, I have had amazing experiences dancing for hours on acid, mushrooms, and mdma. The music is a shared experience, the sense of community… of oneness with all.. the expression of dancing as the music passes through you.. these experiences are unforgettable, joyful, and also have lasting affects. Some of the best moments of my life.
I did not have any beliefs in the spiritual or religious UNTIL I tried my first dose of LSD at 16 yrs old. My lens is forever changed. Almost all of my psychedelic experiences were combined with music (raves in Detroit late 90's, concerts, Woodstock 99' etc). Psychedelics and empathogens gave me an opportunity to see through the programming of my family and culture, although brief visits they were or it seems brief in hindsight, I could never be the "same" again. Ty and PLUR
Thank you for this comment - I deeply concur...with both, admittedly: I wasted some decent tripping potential by flailing about at some urban goa-parties [german terminology], due to being young and not having much of a clue....however: SOME just really clicked, and then it was obvious: This is The Dionysian, this is the special tribal round where you dance to meet the gods, and *be* the gods, regardless what your tribe is, and your gods are - this is a vital part of what's been missing. If the Elysian mysteries had hundreds (did he say: thousands?!) of greeks tripping together - why not us? These days we do have pretty decent soundsystems, too, dunno about the ancient greeks...
The unitive spiritual experience is so valuable... fully exclaim those remarks... At shows/concerts: akthiugh its not ideal unless it's in very small doses they are for sure places where u can't control the setting & if psychological overload, difficult trip: homecetc often best... ! One exception could be Burning Man due to Zendo retreat tent & many that understand altered states... peace
Same. We spent a lot of time at the Valley Center in central Virginia before the Dea shut it down in the early 2000's. Good times. Kindest people you'll ever meet
Stan is such an incredible human being! I had the pleasure to participate at his holotropic breathwork workshop in Berlin some years ago, and this experience has immediately changed my life, if not completely curing my chronic depression, but releasing a great amount of pain and suffering I've been going through at that time. ----- So, thank you, Tim, for doing this interview and sharing Stan's thoughts and experiences with a broader community, and my warmest virtual hug to you, Stan!
My biggest regret in life is not getting the chance to work with Stan Grof. It took a lot of work to get clued in to the psychedelic work, it's not exactly mainstream. I used to live in San Francisco and I've been to Big Sur before, but I never knew about Eselen unitl or any of this work until I moved away. Thank you Tim for getting Stan to tell some amazing stories. I hope I get to meet him in another life.
Thought the Interviewer was fantastic. He asked Intelligent questions and allowed Stan to talk in depth. Really enjoyed the discussion. Stan is a legend.
beautiful! I've done Ayahuasca and it was the most impactful experience of my life. It opened the doors to my inner self. And when he mentioned about that experience with it and that conversation he had with that energy, I got emotional because I've been there and I recognize how powerful that energy is. It's mother nature in itself. Thanks for this Tim!
Hands down the most enlightening beautiful interesting riveting lecture /class /speech talk I've ever heard, I cried during this, well handled Tim you did well,. Amongst my life changes this has propelled me and guided me even further towards the direction I wish to go. Outside of this new direction when I look at the world, I think how truly lost I was, but how truly lost the world still is. God bless Stan.
Unparalleled man of immense & amazing knowledge, insight & wisdom! Also completely unparalleled in the sheer quantity & volume of his work and research involving consciousness and psychedelics! I have had the intense honor & privilege to meet Dr. Grof in the context of one of his Holotropic Breathwork workshops. And he is absolutely such a deeply connected man. A true giant & pioneer in this field! So remarkable & inspiring!
Phenomenal interview! Thank you for bringing Stan Grof to the podcast, Tim. He has some really fascinating books on the expansion and mystery of consciousness.
I owe an immense dept of gratitude to Stan Grof. I started doing Holotropic(Rebirthing) breathwork around age 40 and was forever changed. Of course I had to go through a lot of pain and deal with my shadow by having a mental breakdown which led to a spiritual awakening. My breathwork continues but I have found peace and love and am trying to pass the baton along before I pass to spirit. Thank you so much Stan. You’re an amazing and wonderful person.
1:52:23 „you‘ll find everything inside yourself if you look deep into your own psyche“.... „...the human personality is a little different than whats known in mainstream psychiatry“ -1:55:00 about Spiritual emergency ... when it’s coming up-it’s coming up for healing! So there is no healing in bringing those patients down with tranquilizers. People can benefit from those „bad trip moments“. There’s only need for a reliable and firm loving sitter to care for there needs and maybe afterwards emotional or bodily releases. 🙏
If we have a psyche we almost certainly suffer sometimes. Stanislav has found that the origin of our suffering likely predates our development of language. We need experiential healing. The gold standard for this are spiritual experiences. It is delight learning from Stan. 🙂
Excellent interview. Agreed with other comments, just letting Stan tell his stories but then asking questions that let those unfold even more! Thank you thank you
What a beautiful, informative interview. Thank you Tim and thank you Stan. Stan, you are blessing this world with your experiences and understanding..God bless you.
To add to the intention part of the set & setting that Dr.Grof discusses around 1:11:00... In my own experience (though limited), consuming psychedelics myself and observing others before, during and after the experience, it is NOT so much the stated intention of the user, but the true yearning (intention) of their unconscious/semi-conscious self that serves as the SET for the experience, and hence heavily influences the experience and its outcomes. Tl;dr It's not what you say you want, but what your inner self truly wants (whether you're aware of it or not) It goes without saying, but it's obviously better (though not necessary) to know what you truly want before entering the void. At the very least, spend some time asking yourself the question, " What is it that I am truly looking for?"
Dhruv Seth I’m not certain you will receive my reply and thanks because it is 08/16/2022. As an empath, my “thanks!” comes from the expansion of my life experience based on your comment. In grief, I wonder if my movement in it is extended and complicated by my interaction w/ self as “human” (along with stored memory), and my higher self’s intention along with the others around me who are grieving the passing of a family member and possibly not aware of their soul’s intention. Higher purpose boundary setting around unaware, UNSET, human beings could help during grief.
Thank you for describing what is happening to me. I have been calling it Quantum Smashing… just like the atom is reduced to the finite we are also being reduced. Memories, recall and identifying links between beings. The realization that we can be outside of this duality is remarkable. This is the new normal. Some call it the shift. This is my second time listening. 💕.
thanks tim.... dr. grof, i have benefited from very many holotropic breathwork sessions, which i recommend to everyone ! bless you and your late wife, and thanks so much for your work ! --william
Near Death Experiences are like this. Sadhguru describes the process from a yogic point of view and as someone who comes from a culture already familiar with the whole process of getting into full Consciousness.
froukje matthews omg you are right. I had my first holotropic breathing workshop a few weeks ago and since them I feel like I had an NDE!!! Nothing “feels” the way it used to. Pain is just a construct, I see love everywhere. I feel like I woke up from a bad dream!!!
Great that you mentioned Sadhguru. I've had my LSD experiences 50 years ago. Ever since then I am on my way - or trip - who knows? I met Sadhguru 4 years ago on youtube. I've known Stan Grof's books for a long time. The compass needle points in the same direction, even without substances from outside.
The legendary Stan Grof. I have had great healing with the music therapy that Dr. Grof used with collaborating with Dr. Helen Bonny. Dr. Bonny went on to develop the Bonny Method in Guided Imagery in Music: a little known method of healing by using music to go “in and through “ the process of transforming our limited beliefs while in Non-Ordinary States (NOS).
Hi thanks for this marvelous interview! Just to point something out, I think that when you asked about his opinion on micro dosing mr Grof thought you meant small dose experiences when you really meant continuous daily tiny dose treatment and that is why he didn’t answer your question properly
4500 sessions: if „gone deep” every week, 52weeks in a year that would take us 86,53years Assuming time „stops” each time ... it gives us 86 times eternity. 1UP
Non ordinary... I like the sound of it. Consciousness is non-local..... psychonauts inevitably have a grasp of the bigger picture.... or are at least aware of the existence of a larger world.
Has anybody done a Big Map Of The Psyche with lots of pictures and references ? Should be displayed on schoolroom walls like the map of a country or the world.
I think it's interesting that this guy uses some of his psychedelic experiences to conclude very big claims, not seemingly supported by science, but then discards other experiences to be false experiences. Is it not clear that these experiences can reveal extremely interesting and profound properties of the mind, but can't conclude anything outside of that? Why use an experience where it feels like you're one with the universe and then conclude that consciousness is not produced by anything in the brain? Why is it not even more likely that the reason your experience changed is because you changed the very processes in your brain that has to do with your consciousness and experience?
I have started feeling how unfair it is. Most of us have zero percent chance of getting even 1 chance to try LSD. And here are people bragging of 4500 trips and they haven't had enough. It seems like the divide between the haves and have nots operates exactly the same in Psycheldelicsphere as in the world of capitalism, socialism, communism, theocracy, etc etc etc. There are always the Haves and Have nots . Some of us don't even know how to ever go about procuring this. 😢. I am just full of self pity 😭
Has anyone here heard of the vision called the room of "Leopard skins" that is entered into before a deep dive-within during a hallucinogenic session?...specifically psylocybin.
Your MANY points of ... Salesmanship, is truly annoying. If it wasn't for Stanislav Grof, I'd have ended your warbling long time ago! Shoes... what about SHOES? You got some shoes to sell me???
By the time he evolved Holotropic therapy, he had been operating so far outside of the traditional scientific method he felt no use for RCBT’s. And also, set and setting is as relevant with HT as it is with psychedelics.
@@steveraymond6169 Good to know! I’m not sure what the placebo group would do- maybe box breathing and talk about feelings--but your point helps me know how to put all of this into perspective
5-MeO-DMT hasn't really been studied scientifically? What kind of science are we looking for? Is it so so categorically different that Rick Strassman's work doesn't even deserve mention?
Tim. Please address one aspect of taking LSD that isn't talked about, much. People who take LSD are going to change the structure of the brain and thinking. While you do often bring up examples of people who feel that the changes were good and they were helped, I'd like to challenge that. There was a small group of guys I hung out with in high school that experimented with LSD. Of the six people I can think of, three eventually committed suicide, one is in prison for murder because I believe he lost his conscience a bit - reacting to thoughts instead, another one at the age of 50 is still living with his parents and the sixth one is living off the grid in the wilderness and doesn't speak to anyone. And, when he posts something online about once a year, it is completely crazy. I know you are aware of the risks so why not talk about those cases. I realize people who die or don't have a functional brain left can't tell a good story, so maybe that is the issue. I respect you as a smart person but think people should be extremely cautious when considering chemicals that even the experts can't predict how they will affect you. I've heard many stories about people who just lost themselves, couldn't related to other people, were called weird, became isolated and finally just gave up.
How about they had pretty f****** up childhoods, plus DIDN'T take the psychedelic in a prepared set & setting but took it recreationally, how about most of the circumstances of their personal experiences before and since the LSD being unhelpful/difficult for anyone to negotiate their way through? Stop blaming LSD and start understanding the personal backstories and flippancy in the usage of the powerful psychedelic. ✌🏻
@@divinewind7405 The point is that taking drugs is risky. Holding someone's hand while you take them isn't going to change what they might do to you, or how your brain chemistry changes. I know when people struggle to think and function, they commit suicide. Look at football players with brain injuries as another example. If you want to experiment with drugs, that is your choice but there are risks and you shouldn't recommend or push those options on other people. They are "powerful," and you have NO idea what they will do but whatever happens, for better or for worse, you will have to live with for the rest of your life. It isn't like going out to drink for a night with the guys. It is a brain altering experience that could likely change the way you communicate with other people because you are so f'ed up they have no idea what you are thinking. That is my two cents. Be safe. Stay clean. Don't gamble with your brain just because a podcaster tells you it is cool and some people found it interesting. Laugh if you want. But, what happens if you take the drug and it screws you up. You think Tim is going to come hold your hand every day?
