Let’s Talk About THE ULTIMATE DPS Tier List & The Misinformation 

Check our second channel👇🏽 www.youtube.com/@MarcelianFlame

I love y'all's tier lists! Especially the "most fun" ones

Please, people. They are not rank 1 m+ nor world first raiders or elite arena players (from what i have seen so far). Ok. So what? That doesnt stop them from being able to analyze data or having credibility. I see no lack in class or general game knowledge. And as they mentioned, if they are not too sure about something, they will get more general/unspecific put a disclaimer or speak directly to the theorycrafters/guidewritters in the respective class discord and always reference to sources where you can read more detailed information (what could you want more? This saves you the time todo the research yourself). They are putting so much work into their videos. They doing their best. Let them do it. You would be missing them if they would stop. Look at their body language. They are nervously fiddling with their fingers in the beginning, trying to hide the insecurity you put on them with your negativity. You should feel bad for making them defend theirselves for being passionate. This increasingly toxic wow community needs positive, entertaining people like these two so bad. i guess you dont fully realise how important this is. Shame. On. You. Words have power. Never forget that when you are about to comment your next video.

I find it odd that folks get so upset about tier lists. No one is forcing them to watch. If you have nothing nice to say... As for me, your content is great. Keep up the good work.

Folks get salty because you didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. For me? I look forward to TLF as I find them fun and they're always entertaining! I also wonder where will Flame put Havoc today? Keep making those lists and if people don't like it, they can click off the vid!

Its the internet...ppl are going to talk shit from the safety of their computers. Just gotta eye roll and move on.

You say: 'This is subjective" They hear: 'Definitive information'

Love the fact you guys took an opportunity to address the community! Just my opinion but it’s the loud minority that will comment trash talk or major criticism. Not saying criticism is bad, but criticism for the sake of disagreement is wack. The silent majority obviously love the content 😊. I love the tier list if for nothing else but to see the subtle shifts over time. That’s the nerd in me, I don’t even care if it pertains to my play style. Appreciate the dedication yall have to keep the content and knowledge flowing. Keep up the good work gents. Thank you!

❤❤People complain about everything without having data or for the simple fact of complaining. The tier lists are fun to look at and the meta lists are backed up with data. It's good content I like it a lot❤❤

Need a tier list of all of flames different haircuts over the years!

The fun thing about Tier lists is the Talk about classes and specs, not the actual ranking because as they said it changes almost every week. Just play whatever is fun to you unless you are going Worlds, assuming you won't be watching these videos if you play there!

I think Flame said it best here. There are many different tier lists because once you add more criteria to what you consider "The Best" the more inaccurate the list becomes. Instead they do different tier list with their own criteria. ie. If we look at Dragonflight Season 4 and had to make a "Best DPS tier list: Would Fire Mage be S-Tier? - Well from a High M+ Key standard yes. It's in the God Comp. - Well most viewers are probably not doing Key levels high enough where Fire Mage is that good. Mage has the defensives to survive one shots that aren't one shots on Mid to Low key levels. Fire Mage also pairs well with the other 2 God Comp DPS in Aug and Shadow Priest. But it's not great in Mid to Low Keys, there isn't enough time to properly build up ignites, it has bad damage on Totem type mechanics and it isnt always being propped up by the other 2 God comp DPS. So not S-Tier for the most probable range for viewers here. It's Mage so utility Alone might would maybe put it in B-Tier - What about Raiding? Well it isn't near the top of the dps overall. There are quite a few ranged specs that outdps it including the other 2 mage specs AND it currently has under half the parses of the better ranged dps specs like Destruction Warlock, from a popularity stand point. Most sites have it ranked at B-Tier here. - Is it even fun to play? or in the new season did they get some talent change that added most button bloat and they got stuck with a tier set bonus that is theoretically parsing high in sims but in practice is not fun and many players dont play it well enough to draw out that theoretical power. So how do you rank this on a "Best DPS list" Do you just put it at A-Tier? to sort of split the difference. Then you are going to have people who follow the M+ scene complain about Fire Mage being out of S-Tier when it is in the God Comp. Real Ones know what you guys are doing and are aware of the work you put in.

I just find the rankings interesting just for the sole purpose of what others think about the specs as I don't do raiding/M+ at all.

I didn't realize how much research yall go through for the tier lists. Love it, thanks for all the hard work !

yup i have fun seeing all the different tier lists yall do. thx 4 all the fun!

I rarely comment on videos but it seems its time for some extra positivity. I enjoy your tier lists very much. I dont have the time to check and test all the class changes, therefore your videos give me a good overview. After all, things can still change until release, thats why i take these lists with a grain of salt. Everybody has a different approach to the game, some want power, some want fun, some want class phantasy. You cant consider all the preferences in one tier list. @marcelian Just keep on doing your thing, i cant wait for war within 💪🏽😎

Quite honestly I only watch y’all’s tier lists. I’m the typical gamer dad with 3 kids and a wife, so I’m permanently only doing lfr for my raid content. Your lists mention what’s good AND what’s fun. That’s important because while I don’t care to play the meta I also don’t want to intentionally play what’s at the bottom of the list either. Great job guys and keep up the great work. ALSO I think your guys are very underrated and I wish you all the growth in the future

im always here to check your tier lists, either for top melee, top healer, top whatever, most fun.. etc.. its just to check the data you guys get and spend time doing a recap with your thoughts and such. Keep up going guys, you've been doing a great job!

Even tho i have most of the information already since I'm a dedicated player I like your videos because 1st of all its entertaining and 2nd of all its informative. Any wow player know that tierlists are some type of "click baits" and I dont mean it as a bad thing, people like tier lists. you get views, we get content, its win-win. you also cover all type of game styles (tanks/healers/ranged/melee) in a bunch of different videos, I dont see how someone can not appreciate all the effort.

commenting to pump the algo, keep up the good work :) the thing I like about your tier lists is just getting a blip of other classes. how they play, how they feel, problems and plusses etc. I don't have time to try everything, so I lean on you guys for that

Did you guys ever do a WoW Expansion Tier list by any chance? Love the work, and Flame and Catcelian are WoW Legends!

Keep it up bois! Im from the Philippines 🇵🇭, started watching you from the BFA, tier list will never be 100% accurate but its so fun to see which class goes ups and down, Im a SV hunter/ Enhancement Main since BFA, not even meta or s tier, but i love watching it weekly or monthly tier list. Also people dont know how much effort from preparation, recording, editing just to upload a 10-20 mins video. Kudos to both of you! 💪

While I no longer let anyone's tier lists affect my choices, I really enjoy watching yours and the information that you provide along with them. Thanks for the great content!

As a long time follower, I absolutely love your tier lists. And you always vary them between meta and simply what’s fun sometimes. Keep up the good work lads, from a happy sub in Australia!

Firstly, thanks for your videos and specially the tier lists. Yes I'm a casual gamers, which choose a main it's a nightmare, I try to keep a main for one season. But with the up/nerf of WoW I can't follow all patches and I can't manage multiple alts to switch as main. No enough time to play. Your videos and pov are relevant, transparent and honest. We know Tier list is a tier list and not more, they gave us a vision, an impression and where are enough mature to make our choice. This content, it's always difficult and everyone in wow are hard core gamers, or top players with their pov. Continue your excellent job, from a French player; et voilà :)

Your doing a great job guys. The idiots that criticise are 12 year olds or noobs.

If “Flavor of the Month” players annoy you, it’s not the fault of tier lists. The majority of FotM players have mains; possibly mains that they’ve built such muscle-memory around, that there’s no challenge in playing it. Tier lists are to ensure them that alt they’re about to roll HAS a role, and that they are fun to play. Besides this, leveling alts is the best way to gain a deeper understanding of the game. If this content offends you, it’s probably because of a judgment you’ve placed on yourself. (You’d rather project the feeling in hopes of validating an insecurity.)

Love the tierlists ! I don’t have time to deep dive in all classes, so for me it’s very helpful.

I really love your tier lists. You do them split on role, fun, actual feeling, power. What more could we ask? Don't get discouraged by the haters and snobs, dudes. You will never be able to please them because hate is the only thing they know. Keep up the great work! 👍 Please never stop doing the "most fun" tier lists.

Great video, very informative! Keep up the great work!

Thank you for your hard work. I really depend on you guys because I'm horrible at reading stats. I really love your tier list.

I love the tier lists, people who complain don't understand what they actually are, especially y'all's tier lists. They are about the DISCUSSION of the classes and how they compare to each other. You guys mention in every video, just play the damn class you like, it doesn't matter unless you're in the top 1%. Keep it up boys, y'all are always killing it and I love the positivity you guys bring, don't let those idiots take anything away, just mute them block them do whatever and move on. I'm here for it all brothers.

Thank you guys for all you do here for player new and old. You're appreciated.

Been watching for years. I, amongst others, really enjoy your tier lists. They're always made with such care and quality. :D

Please keep on doing tier list. They are very useful and helpful. We understand that this is not set in Stone and that It is subjective and It has a lot of work behind

I watch a lot of tier list content and I am also curious to see how specs evolve. you guys do a fantastic job presenting information and offering an interpretation or preference that reflects your values. we need more content creators like you guys. Guys who love the game, have intelligent insight, and want to have fun. people just freak when they hear their spec might not be the best. keep it up!

Those people who scream at tier lists or your content forget one thing: tier lists are a total subjective thing. I watch your videos and your content because of you not because I take every tier list it's the one true source for the power of a spec. People should always play what they like and not what is powerful because as data shows the overwhelming part of the community never see a +20 from the inside. Also people should know that tier lists are just a snapshot of the current balancing and is always subject to change. Last but not least: it's just fun content. Thanks Flame and Marcelian ♥ love your content and you should be way more popular in my opinion :)

awesome setup guys. Great job

Great video but was waiting for an updated tier list video 😂😂😂

non-snobs like tier lists...

I trust and rely on your opinions on my future plans on this game because you research the data, you are objective and straight to the point with clear information with no BS or whatsoever. I thank you for what you do for the community.

I’m so addicted to tire lists man I just need my fix “scratches neck” if I don’t have a MarcelianOnline tier list at least once a week I’ll freak out man. I need to know what I need to main or ELSE.

I usually just overlay icy veins with you guys, which is never the same but close enough to see commonalities and then sprinkle my own opinion on top. That last part is usually where it gets messy haha

I agree with others here. I love your tier list. I play what I find enjoyable not what is top of the list. Since I'm in my 60s I enjoy the ones with an easier rotation. That said I think I'm going to main fire mage this expansion so pray for me. Got one to 70 in the remix and really enjoyed it. I watched your list of easiest to hardest to play and its got a hard rating but I'm still going to give it a shot. My hunter will be on stand by of course lol. Want to try survival I need a change from BM.

I've always viewed your tier lists as an overview of how fun and/or complete a specific spec feels. Power is one factor but you've always been quite clear and transparent that something may be strong numerically but not feel very fluid or intuitive to play. Just gotta tune the haters out. Love watching your stuff and looking forward to following you guys in TWW.

me and my friends enjoyer the tier list videos since bfa. as long as you make them we’ll watch them

I like your more special tier list... Like most fun, easiest and so on 👍 Always nice to see different types.

I love tier lists! I think the only issue I have with them, is people don't listen to you guys when you say "Don't let this stop you from inviting a class lower on this tier list". People look at these and then refuse to invite anyone B tier or lower, regardless of of their mythic score and the key they are doing. Quite a lot of people literally won't invite a B tier spec to their Mythic 2 key....like come on people

Tier lists are completely subjective. I say publish them however you want, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

Love your videos, keep going as you do

Do your things, been following you for a while now and I love your content (also been playing wow since 2004). Keep it UP!

Content is solid, don't stop. I think a passive disclaimer/rolling banner on screen would help silence the vocal few.

Congrats on your work!

I love the early tier list videos and to hear your thoughts.... they are a bit pointless of course but entertining... and I am here for entertainment not only information :)

I love the tier lists. And the guides are the only reason I actually learned ret on a competitive level in shadowlands. Until then I had never got that hardcore and it turned out I love playing that way. Competing with myself to squeeze a little more out of a class.

Rest in peace MO Cast I remember the OG with normal content creators and their stories. But I always loved the transition to talking with the Theory crafters too bad they couldn’t realize the impact those talks had on people I joined so many Class discords after listening to them. Keep up the work though boys the content is still S tier!

your Tier Lists are only ones Im watching tbh, great job

Here's a good idea for data to look at. Pull all the data on what classes have people comment upset about their classes ranking the most and do those classes last on the tier list video. This way you can make the hate watchers stick around longer to up your watchtime lol On a side note, all the data nerds love tier lists no matter what. I don't miss a tier list video from you guys and I've only ever pvp in this game. I just love to know what's going on! Keep up the good work guys ❤

I thoroughly enjoy all your guys content theory crafting is that it’s a theory if people would learn definitions they may understand it’s all knowledgeable guesswork you guys just keep doing what you guys do looking forward to future videos 👊

just throwing my two cents out here: i really enjoy you guys talking about how classes play. Idc about the rankings, i just wan't to compare your opinion with my own because i like to view another perspective. Also, i really like you guys talking :)

maybe make a one progressive tier list? that you can update weekly as parts of an overall season tier? One tier list that evolves throughout the season based on you consolidated everchanging data? It becomes more like weekly tier news instead ~ like a living dashboard of a tierlist. Players watch tierlist videos to validate themselves on specs/classes they decide to play. There are players who will agree and many players that will not because they guard themselves from feeling of discouragement ~ thus they get defensive and may lash out. It's the easier and conventient way to clap back.

Appreciate your content bros!!

I like tier list, cause it always nice to see what ppl have to say about a certain spec and it also make me look up arguments/data myself to see what the fuzz is about on a class that is ranked low on a tier list. Dont have to be negative, it just get anoying when people takes tier list so serious. Keep up the great work guys! Your content is godlike

Sometimes you can't please everyone and best to preserve your energy and time by just focusing on the people who enjoy and support your content in a positive way :) you guys are doing great btw!

Main issue with tier lists is the fact that they are meant for the top tier of keys. When you’re looking for lower keys and the group leader is looking for an exodia comp it gets annoying. I still love watching them but wish people would realise that b tier classes can still do content. Especially if the player is good.

Ignore the people just being dumb about the tier list. No tier list is absolute and everyone is entitled to their opinion but people need to realize even with data there are plenty of subjective things that make a spec or S tier many of which have more to do with combining with other specs then the class itself. There's a reason god comps are a thing it happens in wow and even other games like mobas and ability based shooters. In the end people need to take any tier list with a grain of salt and any spec can do high keys its just when you are pushing the top keys in the world that even the tiniest advantages become important. Just keep doing what you are doing, most of us enjoy the tier list videos for what they are. They give some info and are entertaining as hell.

I miss MO Cast with the episodes of the state of different specs. I used to listen to those at work, even for specs I don’t play just to hear opinions and the different people you guys would have on

Long time lurker, I dont really comment but I watch a lot of videos. I enjoy the tier list videos you guys make especially the ones that are based on "most fun". You dont need to include disclaimers on each video because its obvious. Or at least I thought it was.

lets be honest here - tier lists (also yours) are done because a lot of people look them up. Its rather easily produced content with a relativly big audience. plus its controversial + enganging - hence a lot of comment interaction (which feeds to algorithm and pushes this kind of content). Quite a big chunk of people look for tier lists to feed their copium until they eventually find a tier list that puts their favourite class on the spot they "feel" it belongs to. I dont think there is a particular problem with that - but thats why people get so emotional about it.

Your videos are great! Don’t let these fools get to you. Social skills are lacking in a lot of folks it seems. You don’t see that when things are ‘good’ with people but ohhh when someone gets triggered you really see their lack of them.

This is why reality TV is popular, people love drama and like to talk a lot of crap but when they get called out for not acting like adults and talking to the person they go on a rant. You guys keep doing you and those people can stay in the d list for Major Douche or make the T list for Huge Tool

I really enjoy your content and have for a long time. You make the content enjoyable and informative while maintaining a high level of production quality. I'm sure it's frustrating to get unwarranted negative feedback. That said, have you asked yourself who this video is for? You just made a 30 minute video seemingly aimed entirely at your detractors. Do you think any of the people who complain about your content or talk about you negatively are going to watch this and stop? The audience you have proves the value of your content. If this was a 30 minute video talking about how you make your content that would be great. However, a video to call out a small group of people who say negative things in discord doesn't seem like it's valuable or your style.

You guys do research and I trust your research over someone who just randomly comes on here and complain. I don't think you guys are misinforming anything, you guys see the data and relay it back to us who don't do the research or even understand the data in the most fun and easy way to understand. Let the haters foam at the mouth and keep doing what you're doing

Tier lists are fun and informative. Many of them are based solely on opinion but even those can be helpful for figuring out what you want to play.

Love the tier lists. Keep them coming 😂

I wouldnt worry about all the criticism. People are going to disagree with tier lists as no tier list will ever have its accuracy agreed upon as a community. This is mostly because of the different perspectives you can take on what dps profiles are best in that content (not to mention the best profile heavily depends on the other members of the group which also changes all the time), what utility is best in that content, what defensives are needed to get through that content, and many other changing conditions that drastically change the ranking of a specific on a tier list. That being said, I think disagreeing on the lists is perfectly fine, but harsh criticism is unnecessary and to call a tier list misinformation is like saying “your opinion is misinformation”…not sure how an opinionated list can be misinformation as it is an opinion lol. Honestly maybe the people criticizing harshly just had a bad day or week or month or life in general is just not going their way. Just let them say what they say and move on imho, because dwelling on their negativity just breeds more negativity. Love your content guys keep it up, dont let the naysayers get ya down.

Allways look at this channel, for classes feedback!

Never apologize for doing something you love. Especially when you have a following that agree with you.

Love the tier lists and videos in general. I know they arent gospel but you guys take a lot of the analytical work out of it for me by using hard stats and it at least gives me a baseline gauge. I don't always agree with them but that's fine, it's all about fun in the end.

Do not let some trolls in the internet bring you down. Keep up the good work, everyone knows that tier lists are not meant to be as a guide, but rather entertainment!

Yo can we get a tier list of your tier lists?

If you think about tier lists as entertainment.. it kinda solves all the other problems tbh.

Because you’re good channel owners who listen to their community without being slaves to them. 👍

There was a time, i couldn't find any m+ group (with high ranking on my char) - because i didnt played the meta classes. I think its a big problem that exist .. these tier list can destroy fun, groups and player numbers.

Your content is aweosme . Im a feral main have been for years . I always enjoy it regardless of how bad they are on every ones lists most xpacks lol. When i play my alts i enjoy your content to learn how to play and etc. Keep it up you guys are amazing

As always, awesome video 😊

I love all your videos, not even playing currently but still watch it every day, it's just relaxing haha♥️ Regarding the hates, it cannot be avoided. You can make videos on basic facts how the sky is blue or ice is cold and you will find people who disagree.

The silent majority loves the content guys. Don’t let the trolls get to you

Video idea: tell about the Pros of each class ( Fantasy/Utility)

Look guys I have been looking you meta/fun tierlists long time ago (2 years) or maybe more and all I can say is thank you for such an amazing work and dedication. I hope you both continue doing this because at least for me it works. #%*@& other people LOL. You got my love and support!!!!

Love the tier lists who knows if its accurate or not or if its just ur opinion i still love listening to it keep it up ❤

Listen here, you 2 are doing an awesome job. Keep it up. I love your tire lists. Stay safe

Don't let the haters get you down. You make quality content and a lot of people like it. The minority of your viewers will be the loudest. Ignore them. Focus on what you do best!

I dont know who these people are complaining. Dont watch the video, if you dont enjoy it. I like watching them, especially the subjective onea like "most fun". Sure its subjective, sure it might not my opinion, but what does this matter? It gives me a nice indication how others enjoy it, i dont have the time to actually test them all. In the end i will play whatever i like, regardless of dmg or fun other people have. Myself, for example, is having fun while i am doing dmg and still have time to do mechanics - BM hell yeah. Do i mind that other people might see it as boring? Nah. Long story short, dont change a thing - keep doing the content you enjoy producing! Greetings from Germany!

You guys don’t have to explain yourselves just keep doing what you do. Haters always gonna hate.

Keep up the good work guys. Much love from Ireland ;)

So many ppl can't accept data supported conclusions, it's baffling...

I really love your videos, keep doing what you are doing 🎉😊

I wouldn’t take what people in the WoW community call ‘misinformation’ with any particular seriousness. Some guy on Reddit a few days ago made a meme based on Blood Elves’ reactions to the Void Elf sources of magic. Most people liked it, it got like 3k upvotes. But some people in the comments were talking about how this simply silly meme (which was also specifically tagged as a meme) based off a surface level reaction was “spreading misinformation.” As if it were some real life serious political or social issue. Because they’re so parasocially attached to their very specific version of their favourite type of Elf Waifu that any perceived slight no matter how insubstantial is AN ATTACK ON EVERYTHING THEY HOLD DEAR. People are morons and the word has lost any meaning, just seems like a buzzword to people now.

Who is higher tier (Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, or that false Emperor guy)?