Barrel leading takes all the fun and joy out of our shooting experience. Here's some information in addition to the previous video on The No Barrel Leading Policy...and a VR to gun nut who has questions about his leaded 9mm barrel...
Your videos are really something else, I almost swore off cast bullets and was only shooting plated bullets because of very bad leading in my cylinder throats and forcing cone, now that i have saw this I realized my bullets were undersized, Thank you for putting in the hard work and explaining it to all of us shooters out there!
You know, it’s hard to believe there aren’t courses offered on reloading, but your videos fill that gap and all reloaders should want to see these. I think you’ve mentored quite a number of relative novices here on the web, me included. Thanks F.C.
i guess Im randomly asking but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account? I was dumb forgot my account password. I appreciate any assistance you can give me.
@Khalil Diego I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and im trying it out now. Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
...back in 1986 a guy came into our gun store in Pompano Beach, FL with a .357 mag that would not chamber .357 mar rounds...in chambered .38 special just fine but not .357. I bought it to our resident gunsmith, Brian Epps, and he saw the problem immediately...evidently the owner had shot .38 wadcutters exclusively and there was a ring of lead perfectly formed immediately in front of the case mouth...he told me that the solution was to use mercury to remove the leads (this was long before the EPA controlled its use)...I also learned to keep cast lead bullets below 1200 fps when I reload - I had a similar leading problem with my 9mm reloads leading the barrel of my Belgian HP and began using only jacketed projectiles in them...
As always my friend a well documented and informative video ,it too me a long time to learn these things .Its a wonderful thing that the newbie can access your site and the info is right there and in an easy to learn format ! keep em coming . MC
Great video. I hope people follow through with getting more information about Hardness. Too many people think all lead bullets are the same. Make a batch of bullets, check the hardness and mark them for the max. pressure/velocity. Very well explained video.
Jim Ford Sounds like you have very good policies in place for your cast bullets...I tend to make my SWCs BHN 15, Keith bullets BHN 18, Rifle bullets BHN 18, WCs BHN 12 so I don't mark the containers, but marking them is a very good idea - saves any confusion... Have a great day
This is fantastic! Thank you for putting this info out there and for putting it in layman's terms. If you have time please consider doing a vid on lead hardness and how it affects leading. Thank you!
Fortune Cookie - you have nailed it once again! I am new to casting and recently loaded up some Lee tumble lube 358 cast bullets. I used water-quenched wheel weights (btw, they dropped at .362 so I had to size them down to .358 for the gun?!?) and they finished up at about BHN 20. I used the 45/45/10 lube before and after sizing and they shot well, but left considerable lead in the barrel. I fired up one cylinder of jacketed bullets at the end of the session and the lead almost completely disappeared! Cleanup was a breeze. Thanks for that great tip.
Nick L -- you will read and hear it all the time - two other schools of thought. 1) slug your revolver barrel and use bullets .001" bigger - 2) bullets should fall through revolver cylinders to be correct. Neither is the way to go, and my other videos in the Barrel Leading playlist go into that. Problem is that some revolver setups allow 1) and 2) to work so some shooter's get success and spread the message. But the analysis in this video explains all setups. Suffice to say that SAAMI has made it possible for Lee Precision to recommend using Cast bullets .001" bigger than the standard jacketed bullet diameters for caliber. Note that if you do that, bullets will not fall through revolver cylinders. There is also a hybrid of 2) that says revolver bullets should be snug, but be pushable thru the throats - really the same as .001" bigger than the throats. Have a great day, FC
Great post. Just a thought, I would probably refrain from shooting a jacketed round (12:38) through a heavily leaded barrel to help clean the lead out. Heavy leading indicates a change in bore diameter, which equates to increased pressure and potential unplanned firearm disassembly and personal injury. I do cast and I do shoot smokeless and black powder hand loads. Again, great post and thank you for taking more than 90 seconds to explain a rather important subject on casting and cleaning.
Mike Smith - Great point you're making, and this is what causes a lot of the misunderstanding about shooting jacketed bullets after shooting lead. What I like to recommend is that after shooting a lot of lead and the lead is still shooting accurately, then run some magnums through to make cleaning easier. But if the groups are opening up, light leading is happening. You can still shoot magnums through to clear. But if you keep shooting the lead - the wild keyholes will start to appear - then the leading is heavy enough to start obliterating the rifling. It is then dangerous to shoot magnums through to try to clear for the reasons you state. And, if you get away with it without the gun dismantling itself, that's where the "you are ironing the leading into the barrel" stuff comes in. In short, it's too late to try to clear leading using jacketed ammo - that's best done when there is little or light leading to make cleaning the gun afterwards easier. Have a great day...
Great points. From what i know, the proper sizing and proper hardness are the main issues. U make a good point about lube too.I always learn something from your videos, even though i have been reading about handloading for 20 yrs or more (i have yet to do it though-but soon). Experience counts! Great day to you
Great info, I've been having problems with getting leading throughout the entire barrel with cast 240 grain SWC in front of 10g of unique, but I think that may be because my lead is too soft. I'm also using a lee tumble lube design without sizing so that could be it as well. I love the loading though, unique seems to be made for pleasant revolver loads. I'll be applying what I learned here to see if I can solve the problem, experimenting is all part of the fun!
I've been shooting lead bullets in pistols and rifles for over 50 years. Lead has never been a problem. Lead fouling, copper fouling, and powder fouling are each removed in their own way and are nothing to fear. I'm suprised you didn't mention the use of gas checks. Thanks for the vid.
I’ve stayed with the plated/jacketed bullets to avoid these problems. Call me lazy, but it’s just easier. Still, great info. F.C. It’s good to be educated in case I do load these. Thanks for these videos.
Several months back (before I stated hand loading) I could only find some cheap 45lc Winchester Cowboy rounds. Holy schmolly! they nearly filled the grooves with lead all the way through, but really bad at the muzzle. I was able to pick flecks off with a scribe but couldn't get it all to my satisfaction. I finally broke down and got the Lewis lead remover and J-B bore cleaning compound from Brownells. Ran it through maybe half dozen times. Not only removed all the lead but polished the bore to a mirror finish. =)
shrugger1- May have been all three (bullet size; bullet hardness; bullet lube) were out of balance. The Lewis Lead Remover is for serious leading removal - I don't have one, because I do my darndest not to get leading bad enough to require one - been shooting over 40 years without really leading a barrel. People have leaded their barrels so bad that gunsmiths had to be called in. Glad you got the lead out...Best to ya...
FortuneCookie45LC I didn't even fire the entire box. I miked the ones I have left and they measured .454 at the case mouth. That's probly fine for pre 50's guns but if I remember right. It's not recommended going over .452 for post 50's. On a positive note. None of my reloads appear to be leaving any significant amount of lead. ;)
shrugger1 You know your SAAs - the older ones did have oversize chamber throats. My most recent Ruger mikes at .4515", and my Lee 452 252 SWC 2 cavity mold drops 'em at .4525 - .453 just perfect for my Ruger - no sizing needed!! I tumble lube 'em 45/45/10, and I'm in business... Best Regards...
Very informative on what causes leading. I really like the tumble lube bullets almost all of my molds are that type. The worst leading I ever had was bullets that I bought that must have been pure lead, they were horrible. The lead was building up so bad it was hanging out the end of the barrel.
The Lewis Lead Remover works good cleaning the cylinder. in addition to the barrel. It also comes with an attachment that will clean the forcing cone. I had a friend that used to put a chamber brush and rod section on a drill to clean his AR. He ended up damaging the throat and ruining the barrel.
myaim07 - Great point - I only use the drill thing to clean my revolver cylinder throats - there's no rifling in there and the practice is safe as well as effective and EASY ( I like EASY ). But the barrel is a whole other story - your Lewis LR is well regarded solution to the problem. Why I stick with the copper mesh or lead removal cloth instead of getting a LLR is beyond me… just habit I guess - although it works also…Best to ya...
Nicely said Cookie. Seems I'm always learnin something new on your channel. Nice look'n wheel gun you got there too! Might just have to rethink owning one. If you get the time someday. I'd be interested in lead hardness and or lube strategies. My 50/50 works great in my autos but not sure about my SKS tho I hold the velocities down. Gettin' too old to chase my brass anymore. lol
mklean1- lead hardness video in the works…Have a great day…and those DAs do grow on you. People think they are an old design, but they are very useful and appropriate weapons suitable anywhere. Best Regards...
I have had trouble with 750 - 950 for Bev Base Comm cast SWC 44's , or the very soft Horn & speer swc at 750-850 , I just live with it & clean lightly every 100 or so & more before Jacket bullets . I have shot some Plated to help with moving the last hard bit & more scrubbing to get 99% clean . Some day I will try some hot loads to see if they will lead less . Mostly at the breach end .
OneSimpleSolution No, I'm in dry thirsty California. But "The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle...and the hills, greenest green in Seattle...Like a beautiful child...full of hopes and full of fears...full of laughter, full of tears...full of dreams to last the years ... in Seattle..."
The trick I use for 9mm is to use the 125 grain lee bullet mold for the 357 magnum instead of the 9mm mold. I use wheel weight lead and I water drop them to increase the hardness. I then size them to .002 larger than my bore and pan lube them with a 50/50 mix of wax and vasaline with a little STP oil treatment. I also use a 38 special expending die and 38 special taper crimp die so the bullet wont get squeezed back down when it's inside the case. The leading I get is very minor and cleans out with a few brush strokes.
8mmfanatic Wax and vasaline don't do that good of a job to prevent leading so people add a small amount of the STP oil treatment because that's supposed to help. I don't remember the exact physics explanation behind it. There's all kinds of home made pan lube recipes and that was just the easiest and most popular so I started using it and found that it works fine. If you look on the castboolits.gunloads.com/ website you'll find all kinds of pan lube recipes and explanations why they work better or worse.
Prepare2Survive- I like your recipe, the one I use substitutes a tablespoon of RCBS Case Lube instead of the STP oil treatment (we always add NOT gas treatment). Best to ya...
***** Checked out the link, and PC is intriguing. I tried epoxy paint and it was very technique and time sensitive - needed two coats to look good - bullets shot well, but not any better than tumble lubing and TL beats it on time, economy and effort. But the way you do it seems much better in speed.
Great.. my revolver is perverted. When I picked up some Magtech 130 grain 38special bullets I started noticing slight leading in the forward end of my cylinders but worse , a little leading in the first quarter inch of the barrel. Never had this using 158 grain bullets. All bullets I use are jacketed. Go figure. Thanks for another great video.
tjmooremusic - always good to thread with the tjmooremusic... your gun is not perverted or it wouldn’t shoot those 158s well. Your revolver might have overlarge cylinder throats so that jacketed can shoot well - might need large cast bullets to do the same. Your choices would be to shoot the 158s your gun likes, or shoot Cast bullets that are a hair bigger than your cylinder throats. Perverted revolvers have barrels bigger that you cylinder throats making obturation practically impossible... Good shooting to ya, FC Steve
Great video. I did not see any videos from that know it all USA person. I bet his mommy did not know he was playing with her phone while she was sleeping.
I shot about 150 rounds of Grizzly 44 special 200 grain lead bullets. These leaded up my S&W M 29-2 pretty bad, got most of it, however there is some I can get out.
Oh yes! Chamber throats are often smaller or equal to the barrel bore/groove dia. I've spoken to S&W about this. If it shoots jacketed bullets fine and accurate, then it meets their specs and is of no concern to them. I had to ream my 686P throats to .358 and 629 throats to .430...all just to get good bullet fit. Since then I've had no issues.
shotgundrums - It's a shame you had to go thru those exercises to correct what S & W should have provided - and they know that - they've only been building revolvers for about 150 years...when I said in my video that revolvers don't have oversized barrels in relation to the cylinder throats unless they were perverse...what I really meant was unless the gun manufacturer was perverse...Thanks for your great comment...
Great video but I've shot 2000rds of cast .224 55gr bullets through my 5.56×45 chambered AR-15 with no leading whatsoever. I use powder coat but it's such a pain in the ass to get good powder coat adhesion.
I beg to differ Sir. It is necessary to determine the diameter of the barrel. If the cylinder opening is smaller than the slugged groove diameter then the cylinder opening should be reamed to .002 over the groove diameter and size the cast bullets appropriately.
Another terrific video. But I have a question. If gas cutting causing leading, well, not IF because we know it does, but why then does the base of the bullet not melt and deposit lead in the barrel? I shoot cast bullets all the time and I don't have any trouble, but I find that curious.
Don Eime - That's a great question. When bullets obturate well, no gas cutting and even the lube in cast bullet grooves remains. If gas cutting, no lube remains and barrel is leaded. Gas cutting happens when high velocity (and it is ultra high) gasses blow by the bullet sides venturi effect melts the lead there. Another venturi happens at cylinder gaps and that gas can actually cut the steel of the top strap - reason that hot 125 grain 357s wore out top straps. That can sure leave lead in a barrel if steel can be cut. There is no venturi at the base of the bullet, just pressure. There was a study done years ago where card wads were placed at the bullet bases and the cards weren't even burned on firing. The study was done to determine if gas checks actually protected bullet bases or not. Turns out the gas check helps to obturate the barrel and seal the bore but only if the bullet is the proper size. And gas checks make bullet bases more regular for better accuracy... Best Regards
Great video, I cast some 45 230gr bullets in a new lee mold. They looked good but when I weighed them they averaged about 195gr. All the mold dementions are correct. I believe my lead mix is very hard. Could this be why they are so under weight? I want to shoot them in a 45 win mag at about 1200ft per second. Can bullets that are to hard cause problems?
My hunting bullet for my 44 Magnum is the Lyman 429649 which is a long " bore riding" bullet. If I size to 1 thousandth over the throat they have to be forced into the cylinder. Any suggestions on sizing these?
Please forgive me as I am new to casting. I have a question or two if you don't mind. I have a Ruger SRH (45Colt/454 CAS) which mic at .454 at the chambers. Am I to order custom molds that will drop bullets at .445-.456 and size/lube to .455 to prevent leading? Also, all my commercially manufactured gas-checked bullets (.452) fit easily into the chambers, are they aiming for universal fitment at the expense of increased leading? Thanks for your help and many videos. I'm trying to wrap my head around this stuff.
JulietLimaTango - Some old 45 Colt guns (Colt SAAs and 1917s in 45 Colt caliber had chamber throats at .454". Hearing that your SRH has .454" chambers is a bit disheartening. You don't have to order custom molds - if you order regular Lee 452 molds in NON TL designs like the 452 - 252 SWC or the 452 300 RNFP GC - they should automatically cast bullets for you around .453 - 454". If they don't just drop through the chamber throats, they might just be fine. Don't bother sizing them and lube 'e with 45/45/10 system. If you shoot your .current 452s, you might be lucky and they shoot well for you with only minimum to moderate leading. If the leading gets bad, you will lose accuracy and then more shooting will give you keyholes - not good. If your gun is used for hunting with full power ammo, you shouldn't be shooting many of them at a time (perhaps 10-15 rounds) so the leading may not build up enough to be a problem. Another solution would be to only shoot jacketed bullets as they will not lead, and your barrel is probably .451 so .452 jacketed bullets (most are .451 - 452) will give you the accuracy you want. Still Ruger did a bad job with this cylinder. .452- 4525 chamber throats would have been much better in all ways for all uses. If you slug your barrel, you will probably find that it is .451 or even .450". If so, Ruger just plain flat out did a bad cylinder - unacceptable really in a quality gun like your SRH Casull. (If your Ruger barrel slugs at .452-453" then the cylinder - barrel relationship will be fine for cast bullets at .454-455:, but then jacketed bullets will shoot with poor accuracy - then you have both cylinder and barrel out of spec and a worse case scenario). The above solutions are compromises that you are being forced to make. As such, your final option and perhaps the best is you could send the gun back to Ruger for a new cylinder. It is essential that hunters have full confidence in their equipment - not partial, or maybe confidence - and Ruger knows this or should know this...My own Ruger SRH in 44 magnum does not have an unacceptable cylinder. Best to you and Happy Holidays
Hey FC45, isn’t it unavoidable to have some leading inside your barrel due to the heat and friction on the inside walls of your barrel? Do you notice more leading if loading the same lubed lead bullets to 38 Special velocities compared to 357 magnum velocities? If so, if your loading say factory Speer, or Hornady lead bullets in a 38 or 44, have you noticed a certain FPS that when exceeded, results in excessive leading? (Speer bullets seem to use a dipped lube, and Hornady has a silver dry lube) The reason I ask is I very rarely load 44 magnums with non copper jacketed bullets, but stick to 44 Special loads with the lead bullets. The reason is because I have had a devil of a time “de-leading” my model 29 after shooting Hornady’s lead bullets to 44 magnum specs...
cal30m1 - Thanks for your good comments... yes, we like those swaged lead bullets, and I personally really like the them in 44 cal. The hollow points are even used in hunting circles but the velocity ceiling on those is 1000 fps. I like 'em around 900 - 950 fps in hollow points - buy 'em in the 250 boxes. Even though I cast my own bullets for the preponderance of my shooting, I do use the swaged and jacketed also. Those swaged bullets are soft by definition and shooting them over 1000 fps invites leading. If you like cast bullets in your 44, and many of us do, hard cast is the way to go... any leading you get will be easily removed via normal cleaning procedures. And if you powder coat your bullets, any leading will be nil or none. Plus good powder coated bullets optimized for magnum shooting are available commercially from outfits like Missouri Bullets and Acme Bullets. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
monsterman27- If the mold drops bullets at or very close to what I want, then I am happy to not do any sizing, then 45/45/10 'em. Otherwise, I run them thru my RCBS LAM2 and lube 'em as part of my sizing. Have a great day
gun nut - the 10 is paint thinner. And the White Label stuff is pre-mixed for you. I'd be using it, but I've got a lot of LLA that I have to use up...Best Regards...
gun nut +gun nutThe White Label 45/45/10 is all ready to go, just pour a little in and tumble your bullets...The Xlox is White Label's version of LLA, but as you already note, it's less expensive. And you can get a big container of it - Wow - that stuff does go a long way, though. You can order from the website www.lsstuff.com Best Regards
I just got a lot of leading shooting the .38 special PPU 158gr lead round nose factory ammunition in my 2.5" 66, the cylinder face, forcing cone, and barrel all got leaded, the barrel the entire length and it's leaded the worst, I just shot these same,rounds in my 627 with 2.625" barrel and had 0 leading :/
metalmullins - Sounds like your cylinder throats are bigger than the PPU bullets so that gas cutting is doing all the leading. If your bullets are too small at the frontof the cylinder, gas is blowing by the bullet and flame cutting the lead leaving it at the cylinder face, forcing cone, and first third of your barrel (with a short barrel, that's the first third). It's the only way that lead is left like that. That 66 sounds like it needs bigger bullets - you'll have to measure your chamber cylinder throats to see. Then cast .001" bigger and load 'em. Your 627 and PPU ammo are a better fit for each other… Leading takes all the fun out of shooting when it happens… Best Regards
what kind of cleaner is best for lead romoval? i dont cast my own bullets but i reload with factory lead bullets and shoot some factory ammo with lead projectiles, and this is the first time ive ever got leading..... thanks for taking time to respond!
metalmullins Gunsmiths used to use torch heat to soften (don't overdo this) heavily leaded barrels, and then clean the lead out with brushes or copper mesh while soft. They also plugged up the leaded barrels and filled the barrel with mercury - dissolved the lead (that is no longer done). More practical for modern shooters is the Lewis Lead Remover, or wrapping kitchen copper scrub mesh around a subcaliber brass brush and solvents work for leaded barrels and forcing cones on revolvers. For revolver chambers, spin a tight fitting brass brush on a plain rod chucked in an electric drill + solvent = fast and easy. Best to ya
So, if I understand correctly, if a person is using jacketed bullets, there is typically no leading issue, correct. And, typically, leading is not an issue unless you are using high velocities, correct? And what approximate velocity would that be for 9mm and 38 special? Many thanks.
eqlzr2 - Thank you for your condensed conclusions... Not quite that simple, but yes... jacketed bullets do not lead, but, in rifles, they "copper" - when accuracy degrades, we have to decopper the bores a bit. The threshold where lead ends and jacketed begins is a range where shooters who use both types of bullets work. My personal breakoff is a rather conservative 2000 fps. If I go over 2000 fps, it's jacketed bullets for sure. However, jacketed can be used at any velocity that is shootable. Best to ya, FC
FYI; the projectile going down the barrel does not make a full revolution. It may not make half a revolution before leaving the barrel. So no lube on the nose is going to be slung off as it moves down the barrel. Properly sized and polished cylinder chambers, good smooth angle on barrel throat will make considerable difference on leading and accuracy. The hotter the load the more the lead heats up and softens thus leaving more lead in the barrel. The tin content will adjust the hardness and the harder the lead the less leading you will see on a given load. Good video otherwise.
Fortune Cookie: doesn't the lead "problem" go away if you use jacketed bullets (jhp,fmj) at the cost of greater barrel wear? Also I have always been told NOT to use lead at speeds over 950 fps. I do not reload 9mm. I do reload 38spc (for 357 pistol) and 45LC but even there favor JSP or JHP over lead. ???
Gitfidlpickr - Nothing wrong with shooting strictly jacketed bullets. Your 950 fps velocity barrier with lead bullets is way on the conservative side. We can shoot up to 2000 fps with our cast bullets with good performance. We might have to use pure linotype at the higher velocities to get performance without bad barrel leading, but it could be done. I've routinely shot my 44 magnums into the 1400 fps zone with hard cast bullets with complete satisfaction. If you have only used commercial cast bullets, I have found my own cast bullets to be superior for my uses. Power, speed and accuracy are on my doorstep at 6 - 7 cents a shot... that is why I shoot cast bullets....At $3.50 a box of 50 rounds, I can shoot a lot and the smiles just seem to come in abundance - most of the time - Have a great day, FC
gas checks on lead bullets eliminates deforming of it and that prevents leading, with good quality bullets that have gas checks I've never experienced any leading issues ever
kevin davis - When Elmer Keith was stoking all those calibers and developing cast bullet designs, he did not put gas checks on his Keith bullets - reason - he did not think them necessary at 1500 fps and under. On the other side of the room is Thompson who put gas checks on many of his designs. Near as I can figure, for our regular handguns, gas checks do a bit to help prevent barrel leading, but not enough in most cases to warrant the extra 4-5 cents a shot. Some report better accuracy when gas checks are used as the bullet bases are more square, but I have not found that to be the case in my limited use of gas checks vs no gas checks. But if any shooter wants to use them, by all means. I do use them for rifle cast bullets. Best to ya, FC
how many rounds do you throw down feild before cleaning out the lead so gun doesnt blow up a ipsca freind told me to use copper brillo pad to clean leading and to just shoot lead but im still paranoid about my gun getting blown up?
Alonza Hanks - If your gun is shooting accurately, there is no fouling problem. When you start getting flyers, the fouling or leading is building up. When you start getting keyholes, the rifling is being obliterated by fouling and leading. If you keep shooting at that point, pressures will climb dangerously. So let your gun talk to you. If you are in doubt, and your gun is still shooting well, clean it every 100 rounds. If you get the flyers starting to show up, shooting some magnum jacketed rounds through your gun can remove the leading. Or clean your gun. If you wait till keyholes show up, you need to stop shooting with that gun, take it home and use the Chore Boy copper mesh to clean out the lead. Or use a Lewis Lead Remover. I have my bullets fitted to my guns so I've shot 200+ rounds in range sessions and gun clean was easy. I have full videos on these topics under my No Barrel Leading Playlist. Best to ya, FC
never thought to run with listening to my gun havent ever shot lead more than a box buffalo bores every thing else has been jacketed and not lost accuracy man on man plate racing ive got up to 700 45acp in sig 1911 and it started getting slugish was kinda scared about lead going that far ipsca usualy about 200 and at times forgot about cleaning before next competion lead is much cheaper seen a lot of people losing competions because of jams guess you just have to take a chance thanks cookie about how many lead rounds before your gun starts acting up thanks lon got my first 500 rounds of lead 200 grainers loaded 5.7 grains of 231 havent got out to shoot yet thanks Lon
Alonza Hanks - Thanks for your comments. I've often shot 500 rounds in an evening, but never 700. That's some shootin' for sure..!! For cowboy action, lead bullets rule. For autopistols, lead bullets wind up getting the gun dirty enough from lubes to cause jams (these things you know of course). Powder coated bullets relieve a lot of that, but for competition autopistol, jacketed bullets or plated are the way to go as the smoke is the least. I don't know of any of the best shooters using lead cast bullets...doesn't mean they can't be used. Good shootin' to ya, FC
You'll see it easily. It fills the grooves of the rifling and looks lighter than the bore itself. If you can't tell if you have leading then you probably don't have leading.
I slugged the two barrels that I'm reloading for the 45 slugged at 452 and the tokarev slugged at 311 when I use the cast bullets I sized the rounds won't freely drop into the barrel I think the size of the bullet is to big how do I load the rounds to fit the bore and chamber
Francisco Maestas You don't mention if your 45 is the 45ACP for an auto pistol. Most auto pistol barrels in 45 are .451" but .452" is well within reason. Now your Tokarev is an interesting situation. The bore at .311" would be reasonable. You will need caat bullets at .312" for best performance. However, if your .312" bullets will not allow chambering, it means you need to try bullets at .311". That should work. If that does not work, then you have the incredible situation where the gun has to be fired with bullets at smaller than groove diameter. That will be heavy leading with cast bullets and may cause bad accuracy with jacketed all caused by gas blowing past the bullet. You won't get leading with jacketed and they might be accurate enough if the bullets are able to slug up and fill the bore...that might be with the high velocity of the round... Good shootin' to ya...
"On revolvers, no need to slug the barrel" Not true. I was having barrel leading in the middle of the barrel. Slugging the barrel showed me that it's tight at the frame, the opposite of what you said would cause leading in that area. It's a little tighter near the muzzle as well and loose in the middle area where the leading was happening. Accuracy on the gun is also terrible as one would expect regardless the bullet type used. Hopefully Taurus still has barrels for it so I can send it back for replacement.
DonziGT230 - Thanks for posting comment. Problem with videos is that we cannot cover the full comprehensive discussions on any particular topic. That's why there are comment sections and viewers have come to learn the value of these sections. When we are first working with a revolver 1) shoot some factory jacketed ammo - it should shoot decently to very well depending on the load 2) if shooter is a reloader / bullet caster - measure the cylinder throats and add .001" - no need to slug the barrel (that's where the no need to slug the barrel comes in) - If the revolver is properly set up, that should give the shooter accurate clean shooting results. We might get light leading if 150 - 200 rounds are shot in any given session. BHN 15 is good for most shooting BHN 18 for magnum shooting Note - if anyone tells you that you need to slug the barrel of a revolver and then shoot bullets .001" bigger than that (this is recommendation for auto pistol and rifle barrels), wait till you see what some revolver groove diameters are. 3) if we do not get good results, then slug the barrel. This determines if the barrel is not properly set up in relation to the cylinder throat / flash gap / forcing cone or the barrel may be a bad or "pernicious" barrel. This is what you did and your findings on your barrel denote a bad barrel. Note - tightness at the frame is often called barrel constriction caused by the torque applied to screwing the barrel into the frame. Removal of these constrictions can be done by lapping, but I'd prefer to leave that up to a qualified gunsmith to execute. The topic is even more than this, of course. I'll cut off right here as it will quickly become more than you or other viewers want to read... Best to ya, FC
Sam King - Right you are..!! My wife ran into that and got it for me "Here, you need this..." Gotta love that gal...Since then, she found me another one like it, but a little different. Have a great day, FC
I'll admit my revolver expirenece is very limited but I would call ruger and find out if that's supposed to be the case and send it back. I would think they should all be equal.
rodney wells - No doubt you are referring to 10:40 on the video. Speed of sound is between 1000 - 1100 fps depending on location. Many of our loads are at or exceed that in muzzle velocity - reason that some want to load down to get subsonic ammunition. The rifling in our barrels causes the bullets to spin around their longitudinal axis. In many of our calibers, the rifling twist will result in any outside point to be not only moving at supersonic speed from the forward velocity, but also spinning around the longitudinal axis at an even faster velocity. So the vector of any point in contact with the barrel at any instant is easily exceeding the speed of sound. When you say that bullets do not go down the barrel at supersonic speed, even 22LR exceeds that - and all bullets are spinning unless the gun is a smoothbore. Hope this helps... FC
Too soft of lead mix or you are loading them too hot. You also need to run cast bullets through a sixer lubricated die.38spl 357mag dia. Should be .357 9 mm is.354 44 is. .429 45 is .457 inches
Tim Hofstetter - Not in the rifled barrel, of course - but works really great in the cylinders of revolvers. Plus, we used electric drills often to clean out our shotgun barrels and choke tubes with the Brass Brute that is designed to be used with a drill (that's where I got the idea for the revolver cylinders) = works mighty fine and saves a lot of work. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC WHEW! That makes me feel a whole lot better. I can see using it inside smoothbores or chambers... although it seems pretty aggressive for even that.
Tim Hofstetter - Not at all, keep the shank of the drill centered in the cylinder while the brass brush removes everything post haste... Best to ya, FC
Fat Cat - I don't do Facebook since I spend a lot of time doing videos plus answering replies on YT... and checking my e-mail is only done once a week. PMs sent here would be a good way to go. Best Regards to ya, FC
Actually you are mistaken about the throats. The bullet should be sized at exactly the same size of the throat diameter or .001 smaller. If bullets are sized 1-2 thousandth's larger, they will be swagged down to throat diameter when they pass through. Also you cannot get an accurate measurement of the throats with a caliper, you need pin gages to do that accurately and they are not expensive. As far as slugging the barrel, you are wrong again, sorry. The lead bullet needs to be at least the SAME size or .001 to .002 LARGER THAN THE GROOVE DIA. to seal the gas behind the bullet. Sizing the bullet like you said will only leave lead on the topstrap and raise pressures needlessly.
You're failing in one really major piece of information. If this man shooting lead bullets in a 9 mm shooting them in a Glock with a polygon old bore rifling, he should have stopped yesterday. Glocks will, almost without exception, easily blow up from putting LED through them. You do not fire lead through Glock pistols with standard barrels. Detroit police tried that they were blowing guns up within 10 Rounds. The operation of the bullet in that Barrel is so extreme in the barrel so smooth that it will actually blow the core of the bullet out of the band on the projectile, the next round will blow that gun up. Glock tells people for years do not fire lead in their guns.
You made a good video. Unfortunately, you don't know how a revolver works and from your number of likes neither do the previous viewers. The forcing cone in the entry to the barrel is larger than the bullet and is used to align the chamber with the entry point to the lands and grooves. All revolver cylinders have some play when locked. The forcing cone is used to avoid an explosion when the chamber is not lined up with the lands and grooves. And where does the lead come from that you claim comes from behind the bullet? Almost all of your information is wrong. Talk to a gunsmith or read some books on the revolver design.
+Usa Divergent -- I'm sorry, you are a shooter and therefore, you are a friend. It's OK to disagree. Please make a video on your information and let's see what others think about your information on what the forcing cone does. And, by the way, my Python locks up like a bank vault at the moment of hammer fall - zero play in any direction. And no where in the video is said that lead comes from behind the bullet. What was said was that if obturation is not achieved, powder gases will blow by the bullet causing the leading. I didn't think that it was necessary to say that leading is caused by the lead from the bullet. How can you say that a video is good when your opinion is that almost all the information is wrong? What makes you think that any RU-vid poster just makes up information so that you can tell someone to talk to a gunsmith or do more reading? And unless I miss my guess, you didn't bother to see the whole video - you stopped at the forcing cone, but that's OK - most viewers never watch all of the videos they watch. I'm glad you tuned in... and thank you for your comment.
+FortuneCookie45LC I did watch the entire video and my comment was meant to point out that you don't understand how a revolver works. My recommendation is to delete my comments and go on with what knowledge you have.
+Usa Divergent -- And my encouragement is for you to make a video so that we can learn how a revolver works since you obviously have the information - why not share it? If you don't then what good are you?
+Usa Divergent -- I didn't mean to sound impatient, had to go to work...It is not in my strategic plan to delete the comments of others as I view them as informative and counterpoints for readers. It's great to present counterpoint or corrective information, there are no perfect videos on the entirety of RU-vid. I have only deleted one comment in three years because the commenter was obviously a troll and there was nothing constructive or positive about what he was saying. Best Regards, FC
USA Divergent- It is possible that there is someone on the planet that knows more than Cookie does about revolvers. Heck, for all I know it might be you . It is also possible that there is some truth in both of your explanations but in any case along with any information you are attempting to disseminate, unless you can be pleasant and engaging frankly, no one will want to listen to you no matter how relevant or correct the information is. May I suggest you acquire and read a book on civility and decorum and if you study that real good perhaps you can be as entertaining and informative as Cookie is here. Good luck and hope to see you on youtube at some future date. I'm sure you have much to share.
