Barrel leading is one thing shooters will not tolerate. There is no beauty, goodness, or fun when barrels are leaded. When it comes to cast bullets - the No Barrel Leading Policy must be in effect....
One correction: The necessary bullet hardness is determined by the pressure, not velocity. The formula provided by Missouri Bullet Co. is Optimal BHN = PSI/1279.8. While the PSI will indirectly affect velocity, there is no way to correlate velocity to PSI. So, for instance, a 160 gr, .452 LC lead bullet can be driven at 932 fps with a pressure of 6,000 PSI. The same velocity with a 250 gr LC lead bullet will require a pressure of 13,000 PSI. The 250 gr bullet will need to be harder BHN = 10.16) than the 160 gr (BHN = 4.69) to ensure proper obturation and sealing.
txwingnut62-Your 22 experience perfect example of leading at low velocities. Your too soft or too small is spot on, but don't forget too hard. If lead is aged hardened (some 22 bullets seem rock hard), that can cause leading since bullet will not obturate bore and gas blow-by (same as from too small) will lead up a storm. Some old 22 ammo may have lost that "slick waxy" feeling so that the lube is gone=leading.Order is 1) too small 2) too hard 3) no lube 4) too soft 5) rough barrel Best Regards
Great video I just spent about 45 minutes trying to clean up cylinder of 44 mag after shooting 44 special lead rounds. its good to know it is something that can't be avoided but with your drill idea inext time It won't take as long to remove fouling. Thank you
That was the BEST explanation on leading and how to prevent it I have ever heard. I would like to thank you for your time and effort in putting out this and other videos on cast bullets and shooting. Please keep the videos coming because just when I thought I knew it all you come out and change that!
Karl Pettigrew - Check out my latest video on shooting Fixed Sights - Any Good? I cleaned the guns at the end of a fair amount of shooting with + P ammo and you can see the results of the No Barrel Leading Policy. And thanks for the good word ... FC Information Polich - Nobody Knows It All, But Between All Of Us, We Can Know A Lot. You, yourself, can show the rest of us a whole passel of stuff, of that, I am certain.... Best Regards
Thank you , good advice, It seems the lubricant also has its part to play in this. Appreciate the vid's . All the best to you and your beautiful family, Cheers.
I've had this video in my favorites since you put it out, Thank you for all this information it has helped me size bullets for my colt revolver and a couple others. Your videos help me and they probably help a lot of people. Thank You Fortune Cookie.
txwingnut62-Thanks for the great questions - Hard chrome lined barrels and stainless are more resistant to everything, but no oil will help as it will be shot out the first round. There have been oiled bullets used in the past, but it was not for leading prevention. You would think that with all the advances in materials and metallurgy that some treatment or coating would solve this, but it would have to take use of jacketed bullets as well. Reply 1 see 2
aerol1 - the bullet is not bigger, it is the same diameter as the cartridge case; the bullet has a smaller back end (heel section) that the case crimps over. It's the same idea as the present 22LR. You will see the bullet and case are the same diameter, if you pull the bullet out of the case, the bullet has a smaller heel that the case crimps onto. In the old 38 loadings, both the case and bullet are 38 caliber. Now, the case is the same 38, but the bullet goes INTO the case so it is 357.
falcon02012-I don't have a 30-30, but it is a great caliber. Nice thing about 30-30 is that it was right in time when black powder was transitioning to smokeless and it was first cartridge developed for smokeless powder in mind. But lead bullets go hand to hand with 30-30. Many don't realize how good the 30-30 is, but I don't like to do vids unless there is something new or different that could be added..so I'll have to do some homework on what's out there on the Tube - it will be fun..Thanks
Great vid and timely. I just spent hours scrubbing the lead out of 3 .22s I shot last weekend. None of them have leaded up before and I think it was the Winchester Wildcat ammo. Either too soft of too small. It was the worst case of leading I have ever seen. And I am meticulous about cleaning my guns after every shooting session. Can a barrel be "seasoned" to be more resistant to leading? I wonder if an oily barrel is more resistant to leading than a dry barrel. Great channel.
Good video. Well explained as usual. I am very excited about some of the recent developments with other lube systems such as tumble lubing with paint, polymer, or epoxy. Besides economy, ease and lead exposure, they can allow you to run soft lead very fast without leading or gas checks. I plan to experiment with cast 30/06 and .308 this summer, and am hoping to run standard jacketed velocities. Cool times.
albert johnson-your .4505 was the same diameter throats as my 5 1/2" BH throats. I didn't ream mine, because cast bullets sized to .452 hit exactly on my sights when I touch off shots properly and no leading - that just makes caster/shooters smile and keep smiling. My mold for that bullet (not TL) casts at 262 grains (heavier than listed) and I use 8 Unique. Another favorite bullet is 200 Lee SWC 45 (easier on lead supply and accurate) with 8.5 Unique (gotta give 9 a try). See2
I bought the Brownells cylinder throat tool for my Blackhawk .Before i did the throats the cylinder plugs indicated the throat diameter was.4505 all around.After i had done the throats out to .452 accuracy was greatley improved with 2 inch groups at 25 yards.The bullet used was a lee cast 240 grain tumble lube with 9 grains of unique.good load.
albert johnson reply2 - I have also shot LOTS of 255 Lee RNFPs and 200 Lee RNFPs (again easier on lead supply). My favorites are the 255, 200 SWC, and 262 in that order. All my molds are the 6 cavs except the 262 (doggone slow with the 2 cav, but OK). I think all these years, I would have gone to 9 Unique also, but I have Beretta Stampedes - they don't like heavy loadings in 45LC - I actually felt them loosening up after 25 rounds so only standard loads for them and I want loads good for all.
I have little leading useing 357 hardcast bh 15 used win 296 max load no gas cheack ...after 50 bullet then it not crazy to clean but a little leading but it been lots of fun i dont mind cleaning it part of the fun seeing what u put your gun thu after a good day out the range ....
Of all the online videos including my own , this is the most informative one that I've come across. " I " for one who shoot competition at 1,000 yds have finally learned something positive from another You Tuber. Well Done and Bravo. Question : I gave up Unique powder because it was very dirty once fired , happy with Bullseye but it does not fire 250 gr lead swc 45 long colt very accurately. I shoot out to 50 yds pistol....have you tried Promo out to 25 yds ?
niteriderwm - Appreciate your comments - Unique is dirty, but used to be dirtier before the new formulation using a change in the nitroglycerine stabilizer. Reloaders like double base powders because of their economy - the dirtier is a tradeoff that we accept, otherwise we go to the cleaner burning single base. I take my hat off to all you long range shooters - you are really Field Benchrest Shooters in disguise. We can all learn a great deal from you. In our area, the 260 remington has been favored for the +1000 yard. I've burned jugs of Bullseye shooting 38 cal PPC and IPSC 45 acp, but I would not want to use it for the big 45 Colt case where Unique is my favorite bulkier slower burn powder (I like 8 grains of Unique with your bullet). Problem is no Bullseye or Unique for the last 3 years. Even though I use 7.2 grains of Promo behind 240 cast SWC in 44 magnum (I can keep 25 yard shots in the black offhand with that) , I don't prefer anything faster than Unique in the 45 Colt. I've tried Promo in the 45 Colt long ago, and the accuracy and high SD were not acceptably consistent. The 8 Unique 45 Colt behind Lee cast 255 RNFP and 262 grain SWC bullets shoot dependable 10 ring accuracy at 25 yards with my revolvers, and one hole groups from my Henry Big Boy lever gun (esp the RNFP). Good shootin' to ya and thanks for posting. Happy Holidays
FortuneCookie45LC After watching over 25 of your videos, I kbew I had to add 45LC to my collection. My first 45LC was the Uberti Cattleman case hardened 5-inch barrel. Then, i just recently added the Ruger Old Vaquero in SS 5 inch barrel.I must soon start casting my own bullets as ammo is priced high in the local gun shop shops. We do not have large ammo supplying, sporting good stores having 45LC in Vermont. Thank you for your technical videos which are so practical. They are exceptionally clear and I am learning so much. Michael but have been reloading about
Great information. I hope to turn to you for advise when I start reloading. I'm thinking of actually going the revolver route for my first handgun (after Erie County NY's 9-12 month processing wait for licensure) partly because of how fun reloading looks. .38 and .357 (and a 686+ 3" of course) makes for what seems like more versatility than the 9mm which is my current second runner up. Well I'll have a lot of time to decide it seems! Again, what great info.. in quality and quantity
Excellent videos... Shooting is new to me and I've only owned a revolver for 5 months. Shooting my S&W 686 357, using 38 Special, after a box of leaded shells, cleaning the barrel, chunks of lead came out. From your videos, is it an oversimplification for me to think that just using jacketed bullets will stop leadng? At this point I do not reload. Thank you very much and keep up the good work.
David Putano - There are many different reasons why leading occurs in handguns with autoloaders and revolvers being different. I have full explanations on my no barrel leading playlist with multiple videos giving more information than what you have just seen. Leading does not have to be a problem shooting lead bullets. But if you shoot jacketed bullets, you will not get any leading period - and some shooters who do not reload simply prefer jacketed bullets to get away from leading issues at all. However, they will miss out on the many joys of shooting cast bullets. Best to ya, FC Steve
nwwhitco-It's pretty obvious you are one to do your homework, and that is very good way to go. Some experts have said 357 is most versatile of all handguns. Right now,factory ammo in 38 and 357 is a lot more plentiful than 9mm. Some would tell you Ruger Blackhawk Convertible in 357/38/9 would be even more versatile, but 7 shot S&W is better for defense. You might start collecting brass and lead and get some powder and primers when yu can. Reloading is BOSS. Good to have you in HLZ. Best Regards
FortuneCookie45LC - I have just started to consider reloading for my GP100 .357 and 44 Mag, so I've been enjoying your videos. Maybe a silly question, but why doesn't the base of the correctly sized lead bullet cause leading considering it is in direct contact with the gases and pressure propelling it forward? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the community!
TheGoodLife62 - You will often hear the thing about the base of the bullet melting causing leading and smoke from the shot (this is usually quickly followed up with the comment on need for gas checks). You will even hear of shooters saying they see damage on the base of the bullet caused by the force of the powder gases (like the shape of powder granules imbedded into the lead bullet base). All I can say is that there was a study done on this many years ago where paper wads were put under the base of cast bullets and the shots fired at different handgun velocities. The fired wads were recovered downrange and exhibited no shredding, damage or burn. I wish that I had saved those articles, but at the time never considered that I'd be doing YT videos on this stuff. If the bullet bases were so damaged, the paper wads would have been toast. Elmer Keith did the vast majority of his magnum shooting with plain base lead bullets and designed his bullets accordingly. Black powder is totally different and wads can be seen burning on the ground in front of stations. Good shootin' to ya, FC
TheGoodLife62 - There's always more to this, of course. To be thorough, the reason for gas checks is that there is a limit to what bare lead cast bullets can do - That limit was leapfrogged with the coming of smokeless powder. The velocity of bullets became so high that cast bullets stripped off the rifling, and the nations of the world went to jacketed bullets. That cast bullet / jacketed bullet interface has received a lot of work with cast bullet shooters trying everything they have thought of to push the envelope. Hardness tweeking, gas checks and powder coating have extended the use of cast bullets. But the limit is still there. It's like this - we fly our prop planes, but there is a ceiling limit where we have to go to jets. Cast bullets are wonderfully useful to me for everything under 1700 fps. I might stretch that to 2000 fps in some applications, but those are my personal limits for cast - and I shoot 90% of my shooting with cast bullets. But when I need full out rifle fire, I'm going to go with jacketed bullets. Have a great day, FC
Larry-Gas cutting has been explained for last 50 years, it's nothing new. But here's something for your consideration - even jacketed bullets work the same for bore sealing except that they do well right at revolver throat diameter or auto bore diameter; and right on bore diameter for rifles. Go with jacketed too small, and performance and accuracy suffer. Big advantage jacketed is no bullet stripping (leading) so higher velocities possible. Best Regards...
COLT1911COM-possible that you sized them a little too small for that barrel = leading. No size and bullets obturated the bore = no leading. Sounds like you found the good system…Thanks for the post..
M1955, I have trouble with blow-back in one rifle when I shoot reloads but not with factory loads. I think I have the right size bullet. Do you think adding gas checks would help. Thank you.
mike mull - if by blow-back you are getting powder fouling back onto your empty cases, that is a sign of failure to obtain complete obturation of the case in the chamber - cause is 1) underpowered rounds 2) overhard brass 3) incorrect ammo for gun. If you are referencing blow-by on the bullet, that is caused by 1) bullet too small for the bore 2) overhard bullets (failure to upset and fill the rifling). On military guns esp. foreign calibers, the bores tend to be .003" or more larger than American similar calibers. Easy fix is to slug the bore, measure it, and then have your cast bullets .001" larger than max. measurement of the slug. Gas checks help when velocities get in the 1700-1900 fps range or higher. Some, myself included, like to use GCs on all bullets that are designed for them since accuracy is improved when they are installed. But the same blow-by will happen if the GC bullet is also too small for the bore. Gas blow-by is not desired as leading is the result…Best to ya...
On revolvers, why do you go by the cylinder bore and not the barrel bore? I would think it would be more important to ensure .001 over the barrel bore would be ideal? Thanks!
Captainpegs07 - And you will hear just that from many sources - Turns out that revolvers are unique animals - they don't work anything like rifles and auto loading pistols or single shots. The need to obturate (seal the gases) through the cylinder throat / flash gap / forcing cone have requirements for best performance. The the barrel groove diameter practically has little to do with it. Please check out my video on How Bullets Work in Pistols and Revolvers for the whole lowdown...I also have a playlist on Barrel Leading that might help fill in information....Please come back if anything is unclear. Best to ya, FC
GunGun ZS-Technilogy, development, discovery- it's all so good and exciting. Like you comment, great time to be in reloading and casting. The principle of proper sizing of bullets to the gun will, no doubt, always be in effect until we start using phasers and disrupters. Sounds to me like you need to do a vid once you get your data and conclusions...
The proper bullet size diameter is the reason your Barrel isn't letting and getting leaded up not shooting a jacketed bullet through a leaded Barrel does not clean the lead out common sense
Thanks for the reply and update on the powders reformulation I have two unopened bottles of Bullseye circa 2004...loads min 4.9 gr max 5.4 gr 250 lswc 45 colt...new book loads 7 gr max Alliant website Dec 2014...well I tried 6.3 grs of the new recipe and said WHOA STOP CEASE and DESIST. My last pistol video was shot in 2010 and published in 2012...RUGER OLD STYLE " VAQUERO " REVOLVER 45 cal and Ruger 45 ACP -Long Colt convertible revolver ...That was before 1,000 yd rifle...the 250 gr bullet just did not want to stabilize at 25 ~ 50 yds...almost thought it was me...I am now a subscriber and keep up the INTELLIGENT PUBLISHED WORK Lomg range 1,000 yd shooters should start by watching Ryan D Pahl's video series : Road to Precision
niteriderwm - It's funny - I've used Red Dot in my 45 Colt and it did not shoot well. The bulky Red Dot, however, does shoot well in my 44 mags at 7.2 grains. Unique shoots well in my 45 Colts as does Herco, so I don't even bother with RD in the 45 Colt. However, that might change if I can't get resupply on Unique or Herco - I'm OK for a while until hopefully, the supply situation improves. I might go with Jim Canning's trick of using fiber fill to hold the powder to the primer if that RD use happens...Best Regards and Happy Holidays
I've ordered a copy of the book ...complete reloading handbook of....I'll take that book to the 3 stocking shops and see what they have on the shelves...230 grains seems to be the most accurate pistol bullet ... and that Dead eye Kid pisses me off......he's young and I'm pushing 70 ,darn whipper snapper who can shoot
niteriderwm Yes, the DEK - shooting comes very easy to him...in a different reality, he could be some kind of competition shooter in Steel Challenge or similar... Happy Holidays to ya
I recently got into using hard cast lead bullets and after my first 50 rounds I have leading in the beginning of my barrel. I was using 4.0 grains of bullseye on a 200 grain lswc from central plains enterprise. The bullets range from .452 to .452 diameter. Any advice or recommendations on what to try next to fix this.
Rockapotamus24 You didn't mention the gun. If 45 Colt, your leading could be because your chamber throats are bigger than .452" so that gas blow by is depositing lead in you forcing cone and first couple of inches of your barrel. You need bullets .001" over your chamber throats - so miking them would tell you. If you are shooting 45 ACP, your .452" bullets would probably be right since most current auto pistol barrels are .451", but you would have to slug your auto pistol barrel to determine your groove diameter (something that you do not have to do with revolvers). I have a video on slugging your auto pistol barrel. You want bullets .001" bigger than your groove diameter. If your bullets are smaller than that, you could get the same gas blow by and barrel leading. Bullets smaller than your revolver chamber throats or auto pistol groove diameter are poison. If your bullets are exactly your chamber throat or auto pistol groove, and you are getting leading - it could be because your bullets are too hard so that obturation is not achieved and leading results. Finally, if the above is ruled out, it could be because your lube is not proper or there is not enough of it (although the amount of lube has been determined to not be problematic). Then I would suggest that you tumble your 200 LSWCs in Lee Liquid Alox or 45/45/10 tumble lube (videos are up) and try that. Your leading should not occur. If you still get leading, then you need to examine your internal barrel finish - if your bore is irregular or rough, you could get leading from that - I have seen some pretty rough barrels especially around revolver forcing cones. Auto pistol barrels are usually well finished. Hope this helps - FC
+andy1911 -- Your 4 grains is a mild load whether for 45 ACP or 45 Colt. Leading in the beginning of your barrel indicates that you need bullets .001 bigger. So .453 would be good... now that is key - when we cast bullets, our molds often drop at .453" so they will be perfect as cast for you to load 'em and shoot 'em. Your alloy hardness and lube in the grooves is probably not the cause of your leading... Best to ya, FC
357bullfrog - The 45 Colt cylinder throats are best at .451 - .4515" so that all .451 jacketed and .452" cast bullets will shoot well (unless your barrel is off also). Are you using the very tip of the calipers in the chamber throats and taking as square a measurement as you can? .448" is really swaging down .451 - .452" bullets excessively. Only way that would work would be if your barrel was also correspondingly on the small diameter side. Because if your barrel was a normal 45 Colt barrel, you would have the opposite of the proper setup...your bullets would be small at .448 exiting the cylinder and then going into a larger barrel - tough to get obturation, bullet stability and accuracy that way (although jacketed can work within reason). You should shoot your revolver and test how well it shoots. If it shoots well without leading up a storm, count yourself lucky. If not, you will need to slug your barrel. If it is bigger than .448", you have the reverse setup, and I didn't think our gunmakers made that kind of bad product in this year of 2017 - way outside of SAAMI specs. . Good shootin' to ya, FC
David Packard Great comment...Incantations only help when you've done everything right and the last possible thing causing barrel leading is left - rough chamber throat, forcing cone and / or barrel. Fortunately, I've never had to resort to incantations, and I hope you never have to either...Best Regards and Happy New Year
+CountryBoyPrepper -- Only way I missed your comment was if Google does not post it to my inbox...if they don't do that, we'll miss the comments every time until we accidentally stumble onto it later. And Google has recently been losing my replies so I can't tell if I've answered a particular comment or not...plus if replies aren't posted, how is a viewer going to get anything out of the replies...? This is bothersome... FC
