Let's Talk About Model Railroading's Biggest Problem 

When my dad passed away back in January, my mother found out about all the DCC engines with sound that he had purchased over the last two years. Plus rolling stock and a DCC system. She said he mentioned building a layout to her one day a couple years ago so he secretly built up a collection and was going to surprise her one day. He was restoring a old car and she told him he didn’t have time for that lol I still have a big box of old brass track , HO engines, cars and stuff from when I was around 12 years old. I’m now 52. We did a family layout on top of our pool table in the basement. Lots of good memories doing that and buying engines and cars at the hobby shop.

What I find interesting is that looking at magazines from 40-50 years ago one of the items they talk about is the high cost to get into the hobby. We all remember blue box cars for $2-$4 each and engines for under $20. What we don't remember is that we only made about $2/hr. As we get older we tend to have more spending money that we can use for our hobby. But even as a kid I found ways to make my money go farther. Train shows, yard sales, garage sales were all places I looked for cheap things to use on my layout. I still shop at all of these places. However as I have gotten older I have gotten more selective. The cheap cars that I ran long ago are no longer good enough. Now I want more detail and better accuracy. These things cost money, but they are what I want. If you compare the quality of items we can buy now to what we used to have we are doing pretty well.

I was born in 1960. Among my many interests were a passion for model railroading as well as short track stock car racing. In the 70’s, if you raced, you built your own car & engine, as well as a trailer to hitch behind your F100 for transporting the beast to the speedway. Also in the 70’s, if you were a model railroader, you built everything on your layout, detailed and airbrushed the Athern and Atlas locomotives to match your favorite road, and wired up simple and cheap DC control using whatever switches, pushbuttons etc. that we could find (model railroading before the internet & Amazon!). The so called “shake the box” car kits ruled the rails cheaply! Fast forward to 2022, and a trip to the local speedway (if you can find one! They’re nearly as scarce as hobby shops!) will reveal that everyone now runs “store bought” race cars, there engines now come from specialty machine shops, and the vast majority of cars are transported in plush 18 wheeler rigs! There are comparatively few cars there now, and sparse numbers of spectators in the stands. Then, examine the model situation. Everything is RTR including structures, the newbie modeler is quickly brainwashed into believing that he HAS to have DCC control, be an electronics expert, and buy the most expensive DCC equipped locomotives, but you have to get on a list a year or more prior to your desired engines release date to stand a chance at getting one of the few they produce! There’s no shelf browsing now! As crazy as it sounds, there’s a lot of parallels between racing and model railroading, such as a loss of craftsmanship, and the fascination with expensive, but not absolutely necessary, things like 18 wheeled transporters and DCC, with its accompanying costly investment in compatible locos. Hundreds of speedways have closed across the US in the past several years including several in my vicinity close to Charlotte, NC, the very heart of stock car racing, due to low car counts and no spectators. Young people aren’t interested in it anymore in part because they can’t afford to even consider putting a car on the track, along with the fact that, as bad as us old farts hate it, there’s a good possibility that the sports time has come and gone! And I firmly believe that the same thing is happening to our hobby. Recently retired (from the railroad ironically!), I’ve dusted 25 years or more of dirt and debris off of my N-Scale layout which has sat unused for that long, and kind of edged back into the hobby, but it’ll be done with 25+ year old Atlas & Kato DC engines. I’ve disassembled them, cleaned all the electrical stuff, lubed where appropriate, and cleaned the rail, so now they’ll all run 100% and crawl when needed! Modeling and the racing thing have been a major part of my 62 years, but they’re both slipping away! I love this channel! Sorry for the book!

I am continually amazed by the amount prices have increased in the last few years. Rolling stock in the $50-$75 neighborhood? Not doing it. I try not to spend over $25 for a car and even then it's got to be something I really want. I wish more manufacturers would bring back kits. When manufacters gained access to cheap Chinese labor, they figured out there was a market for RTR and attendant higher profits, so kits largely went away with a few exceptions. (Accurail comes to mind immediately. Their kits are still reasonably priced and not difficult to assemble.) I collected many kits when they were common and affordable. There are often Athearn blue box, Roundhouse and other kits still to be found at train shows. They're inexpensive and will provide a lot of enjoyment, a feeling of accomplishment and a chance to learn new skills. After all, isn't that what the hobby is about?

New technology is needed. Today wifi connected microcontrollers are cheap, small and powerful, supporting OTA reprogramming. Could be controlled via mqqt with high level commands and edge computing. Acceleration/break curves and so on. Short range rfid tags for signals to the train. Build locomotive chassis with a mcu, speaker, light connectors and rfid tag reader. Possibly even swappable tops to change locomotive looks. 3d printable tops to paint. Or detailed printed decals. Or even papercraft modelling on top of rolling chassis. But, I know, it would mean a whole new infrastructure. But I play with the notion of starting from scratch with Esp32, MQTT, WiFi and rfid.

I like the ideas you have come up with! I'm kind of an "old school way" guy, started with DC years ago, have upgraded to a bigger/better DCC system, running both and I still have SO MUCH to learn. I'm not the best at learning electronics, or attempting to upgrade locomotives, in fear of messing something up. I have pretty much anything and everything I need/want now, but I didn't have internet where I grew up, so youtubing the How To wasn't possible. I like simple things and having cost effective "basic start up" options sounds great for those just wanting to get in on the fun!

You have hit the nail on the head here... How to attract new modellers when we used to save 4 weeks pocket money for a coach, the kids now cannot possible save enough - there are so many other distractions!!! Parents and grand parents may have more 'free' cash but kids don't have enough to buy trains. One easy way to save cost is to ignore sound fitted trains. They are hugely expensive and they sound awful! You don't just hear a train, you feel it. 200+tons of loco has a presence that a 1.5in speaker can never replicate, so why spend $100+ extra to be disappointed? Glad I found you channel...

I think it would be helpful to compare model railroading to other common hobbies. One I can think of is photography. It's very difficult to get started for under a thousand dollars. Bicycling? eep! If one wanted to get into, for instance, record collecting and listening, a decent turntable costs as much as you are suggesting for a basic set. The records add to the cost. Various sports, like golf and tennis are also not cheap. If one wants to play a musical instrument, again hundreds. What about gaming on a PC or console? Model railroading isn't cheap, but honestly, if one is serious about something, nothing is cheap. :-) Sure, all of these can be done cheaper (and mostly by buying used equipment--but that's another topic), and I think you showed in this video how to make it cheaper buying new model railroading gear. This was a good video, and I hope manufacturers take notice. I forgot to add. When I was a teenager in the late 70s, model railroading was nearly prohibitively expensive for me. Every turnout was like gold to me. I had the most modest of layouts because of that. Nowadays, I stick to small, switching layouts, also for the expenses. I don't remember model railroading ever being "cheap." ;-) Actually, for me, the most "expensive" part is the real estate--finding a place to put a railroad. This might make a cool topic for a video or series--how to put a railroad in the tiniest of spaces, and see how much railroading functionality you can fit. Shoot. forgot my coffee. It's Aldi German Roast, regular. It's good if you like European coffees.

I just got into N scale last year with the purchase of a Kato set that included a DC power pack, Dcc ready Gevo ES44AC locomotive, M1 track set, and their mixed freight set of cars. It’s a real bargain at $180.

Model railroading's biggest problem is that, like ham radio, the vast majority of people in the hobby are in their 60's or older. Everyone younger than that is on their PlayStation or PS4. I took my 8 year old grandsons (twins) to the Pittsburgh Science Center. It has a huge Lionel based layout. Their interest was really brief and was focused on the moving Ferris wheel. It was on to something with a video screen.

Hi Jimmy, your suggestiins are not bad suggestions, problem is, manufacturers have tried this. We've stocked the items like this, no one buys them. Everyone says they want cheap rolling stock or locomotives, but when presented with them they scoff at how it doesnt look like a Genesis or Tangent model. Peoples words say one thing, but what speaks to the industry is money, and the money trail says they want the details, want the sound, want the ditch lights, want the.... The price of the hobby is what people make it upon themselves. The options are out there for brand new rolling stock under 20, new locomotives with dcc under 100, all of this is already available and people turn up their noses to it.

As for budget DCC locomotives, there are a few on occasion. I recently acquired a couple of Atlas Master N ALCo RS-2 Diesel DCC Equipped locomotives for $104.99 each from one of the online hobby stores. With just a little work in tuning the DCC setup, they work pretty good as road switchers. No sound, just direction and speed control with directional lights. They consist reasonably well. The DCC Ready version of the same locomotive sells for $81.99 from the same store. I also bought a set of 6 pieces of rolling stock (2 tank cars, 2 covered hoppers, and 2 gondola) from my local hobby shop (not really a model train store, but they carry a few things and I like to encourage them) for around $90.00, but that and one locomotive shot the $200 price point that you mentioned without track or DCC controller. I love the idea of budget model railroading and starter sets is a good place to start. I don't drink coffee, but I did just enjoy a tall, cold glass for 2% moo juice.

Jimmy, I think these days there is way, way too much emphasis on buying things(bells & whistles like DCC plus etc) and not using ones own creativity setting up train displays(especially for children). As my father who grew up in the 1920s depression use to say any fool can spend money! Excellent topic today. Phillip Roe

Really enjoying your videos and love your ideas about track layouts! I bought a Bachmann DCC starter set for $350 last month (Jan 2023). You're correct that if was $200, I would have purchased more items to get my layout moving along. Keep up the great videos. BTW, my go to coffee is the Great Value Breakfast Blend. Looking forward towards many more of your tutorials.

I think one of the great things about Scale Trains operator series, is, it starts a lot cheaper, BUT. you can purchase the detail sets to make them into Rivet counter looks at a later date, if you wish

I think you were right on!!!👊🏻 I new to this hobby and got a starter set a few years back. Now that I have the urge to get back into model rr I think these ideas are great!!! My starter set is a DC set but I have 5 pieces of rolling stock, track and a locomotive that is DC which is no problem. Was looking into getting the Digitrax Zepher DCC Command System plus just bought some rolling stock. I have a track plan in mind and hope I can get it together. Stay Safe & God Bless!!!

I think the cost issue is largely an economy of scale thing and I'm not talking HO or N scale, of course, just number of people in the hobby. For example, if you could see sales numbers for individual engines or rolling stock, I doubt you would find many items that sell over 10,000 units a year. I bet a lot of it is in the low 1,000's and some of the real expensive stuff is probably in the 100's. It's not like the products you see in Walmart that are being made by the hundreds of thousands. When you spread tooling costs across a small number of products, the price goes up. When you are buying relatively small quantities of raw materials to make those products, the cost goes up. Spreading out assembly costs across a smaller number of units, the price goes up and I would expect a lot of these products are using mostly manual labor to assemble. There are quite a few model railroaders out there, but I doubt we are talking millions of people, probably more like a few hundred thousand and at varying degrees of devotion to the hobby. I do work in the consumer product industry and quantity makes an enormous difference in cost. Worldwide inflation and material shortages are driving prices up a lot right now too. DCC might come down a little over time, as more and more people get invested in it, but I doubt we will ever see model railroading become an inexpensive hobby, there just aren't enough people in the hobby to drive that economy of scale.

Great Video!! You are right on point with your assessment. I am retired and trying to get into the hobby. While I agree with John Banicki's comment, it is still difficult to spend a large sum of money on something that you are not entirely sure you will enjoy. For example, I am trying to decide between HO and N scale. Space is at a premium so N would afford a more comprehensive layout but HO has more to offer in terms of products and ease of use (I am retired...old).

First time I ever disagreed with you. Disclosure: I am 67yo, low vision, and a curmudgeon at best. DCC: Yes, I agree that it has quite a few very nice features. DCC: No, i don't believe this is the way to start people in model railroading. 1) Cost - To expand from simple loop to ? Every step of the way will cost extra. 2) Complexity - Sure, a 30 ~ 40 something might be able to puzzle it out but think how long us 50 ~ 60 somethings take to effectively use their smart phones. 3) Frustration - Number 1 killer of any hobby 4) No percieved need - I want to set up my loop of track, put the trains on it and run! Not fool with more electronics. 5ish A) Understanding how / learning about getting powe to the moter and other forms of electricty. 5ish B) Ok, I get it, ya don't have to understand a microchip to use a smartphne - but it helps. Summery: Don't push DCC on novices. Let them get up and running to the point they have expanded once or twice and have a 'feel' for mosdel railroading. Then Let they explore the options Pros and Cons. Mixed Multi Pacs of Cars? Hmm, ya, that could work. Wish you the best.

Great video Jimmy, you hit great points. I think it's important to research, research, and research. Stay away from highly wanted out of production items.. Paying attention to the new releases and preorders I'd very important to save money. And as you showed, lombards is amazing on there prices! Saving money and bbuying a few things at once and shipping only once can save alot too. Take care!

Great video Jimmy and thanks for elaborating on cost to get into model railroading. I for one when I started looking for locomotives and rolling stock could've went overboard in a heartbeat! But I had to get to reality living on SSDI knowing I have to shop for deals and be smart about it. I agree w you abt having rolling stock sets of 4-6 priced $50-$75 which is a great buy! I'd like to eventually see retailers do deals like that. Then I'll have to add on to my layout w another railyard that has abt 6 tracks 3'ft long each. Thanks again for sharing your videos Jimmy!

Hey Jimmy, excellent subject… as for myself, I purchased 1 Bachman starter set and took a ride on the used marketplace railroad… I have purchased a few new locomotives and I have dependable supplier of dc or dcc used locomotives and I also purchased about 40 or so cars of rolling stock in the OfferUp/Craigslist sites. Not to mention HUNDREDS of pieces of track. So I’m pretty well stocked up for now and if I want some sound… I just turn on the clothes dryer ( because I’m in the garage) … it sounds real to me:-) last but not least cafeteria coffee and extra grounds 🚂 …RIP Dave Gus it was great running railroads with you.

I have been dreaming about getting into the hobby, and recently pulled the trigger on my starting setup. I look forward to playing around with DCC, dipping my toes in scenery, and most of all running trains! Drinking Starbucks Pike Place black (in the middle of the night lol)

I think that you are 100% correct with this being one of the biggest problems with model railroading. It took me about 10 years to finally man up and get a nice DCC loco and zephyr controller. I had a very difficult time spending so much on a single locomotive when I could get 3 or 4 of the same model in DC for the same price at a train show. Now that I have DCC and sound I'm completely hooked but with the massive gap in price, that transition was a hard decision to make. (at least for me)

Agree! Your suggestions are on point. My wife knits and yarn for a good sweater is about $200-250 so your starter set price is right on. Train shows are great and ebay is good if you're careful about it. I hope you catch the manufacturers' ears on this! Oh, and I'm not a coffee guy, my caffeine source is hot chocolate - special dark!

Hey Jimmy: when one takes into account that “starting” for many of us happened in the ‘60s and ‘70s. My buying power followed my minimum wage paycheck starting at $1.90/hr. A five-fold increase has happened since. My Bachman trains (a set plus extra cars and locos) was wonderfully done, and had RP-25 wheels, brass rails, etc. The “cheap” AHM or Tyco cars could be had for $1 or $2. The had the huge flanges, talgo truck-mounted Horn-hook couplers, and variable quality. But the “low end” is relatively speaking, about as affordable now as it was then. Brass locos of the ‘70s were simply not affordable. Athearn blue box were the go-to “good” stuff and I think I paid $5 a car and $25 a loco. I bought one of the new, good Atlas SD-40s at $45, and that was big $$$. Of course, the PFM platform was the only sound alternative and it was never affordable. And the kind of computer-aided control we have was a Science Fiction story. Pete’s Costa Rica, with double real cream this morning. Thanks!

Hey Jimmy dont forget going to train shows for good deals. At the last show I went to a guy had a table full of Bachmann DCC equipted locos for under 50 bucks. True they were older first run locos but I picked up a nice running GP7 for 25 bucks. There are deals out there

This is mind-blowing content. I am comprehensively illiterate but you explain all the technical stuff so that it makes sense.

As for affordable equipment, I would add to your list "dummy" B units for the F and E locomotives - I myself don't need my B units to be powered, which drives the price up. Make it an option for those who want or need them powered. As for my coffee, today, it's just Folgers Half-Caf, 2 sugars and oat milk. My favorite coffee is Deans Beans roasters in Orange, Massachusetts, which I have been drinking since the mid-90s! Love the videos and your willingness to video your process and thoughts!

This is a fantastic video! You highlight my biggest issue with trying to get people into the hobby. The cost scares many people away. If more second hand markets and more consumer savvy manufacturers, I think the hobby would grow significantly.

In the old days we use to scratch build and make our own things and they were actually very detailed and nice. You can even roll your own DCC but everyone just wants instant gratification and they don't want to put the time in and learn the skills. Sure there are some things that you will have to or should buy but the lion share can be DIYdc, track, turn outs, rolling stock, buildings and even things like DCC base station and power supplies.

I started in the hobby because my wife suggested I get a hobby to fill some time. I started out with a starter Bachmann DCC set then decided if I was going to do it I just needed to jump in. I have a 12'x4' N scale layout that has three main lines, 10 locos, 100 pieces of rolling stock and have fully landscaped and completed the layout. I've put over $10k into the layout and as everyone knows, it's never done! I'm now looking to add signaling and other details as well as possibly adding another section of the same size. I'm budgeting $5,000 since I have learned a lot about where to get good used products or lower priced new products. This certainly isn't a hobby for someone with limited funds if they are looking to build a decent size layout.

The thing that gets me is this. Some of the molds they use have paid for them selves over and over again. But are still pulling a equal price as the new molds.

Great video: This should help a lot of people. I started with a KATO set that was $269. DC loco, controller, 6 cars of mix freight & track.

As someone new getting into this hobby, it is a bit overwhelming on what you get for X amount. The information that you find is also a bit of hassle to understand. That's one of the many reasons I have really started watching you, and not by any means am trying to bring you down, but the way you explain things is dumbed down to a newbies level and I appreciate that. Open and honest, and great explanations on stuff. Keep up the AMAZING work!!! Also, drinking Black Rifle Coffee Company Five Alarm, 3 sugar and 2 creams.

I do agree with your suggestion that you try to find less expensive decoders with fewer features, if you can. My reason however is not about the cost but about the operator’s ability to remember all the different functions available and which button to push once you are passed the basics of horn, bell etc. If you have one engine it’s not a big deal, but when you have 25 it’s impossible to remember what type of decoder is in which engine. So, you run pretty basic functions. Now if I could only remember which button to push on which engine so that it calls out its speed 😊

Excellent video! Don’t forget Model Power. They sell some pretty decent, not as detailed, but still nice rolling stock at a very affordable price. I’ve seen them as low as $6 or $7, but usually in the $10 range. I happen to have an MRC Tech 6. The only downfall I’ve experienced with the unit, is that you can’t double head engines in opposite directions. They try to pull each other in the opposite direction. Don’t know if there’s a fix for that, if you know if one let me know, please. lol. I really enjoy watching your channel and I’m also a big coffee connoisseur! Happy model railroading!

From my beginning in the hobby in l983 until quite recently, my primary focus has always been repairing stuff i found in the boxes under the tables at train shows. THEY are the salvation of the hobby. As a kid I had Lionel 027 but when my son was the same age, Lionel was about as affordable to me--with an IVY league degree--as an Audi. My main complaint would be the shoddy functioning design of the cheapo introductory kits,, Parents totally give up on the whole electric train idea if they don't discover the 8-wheel pickup and flywheel inertia that old Athearn gave us. One parent told me "I threw it out. All it did was make them cry.

been thinking about getting into dcc and this video helped!!

I think joining a modular railroad club helps lower the cost of entry. They usually already have a DCC system they use. If you're doing t-trak then you only have to build 1x1 square to get started. Then you can focus more on getting a good first loco and some rolling stock. You should also go to train shows and swap meets to find deals on used rolling stock. If you go to these shows you can find cheap cars that have the older horn hook or rapido couplers and convert them to knuckle couplers to save money. I also used to see more car kits where you saved a little bit of money by doing the final assembly yourself. In n-scale I used to buy lots of roundhouse car kits for cheap this way.

I think the key is to understand that you don't need a ton of locomotives or a whole yard of rolling stock to start off with. One nice sound equipped locomotive, a DCC system, and a small shelf layout is a great way to start without spending a fortune. Trying to make everything slightly cheaper doesn't really accomplish much, and for the DCC system, DCC++EX already offers a much cheaper system. For an out of the box system, the Digitrax Zephyr and Digikeijs DR5000 are both an amazing value.

Great video! I find that intermodal equipment seems very expensive. Like a 5 unit well car set is $100 and then if you want containers for that, it's another $100. So you end up spending $200 on just 5 cars.

PWRS has plenty of in stock older locos (dc) sub $100. My local hobby shop is always getting good quality used stock in as well. Modelling a single track branch line can save money on materials for the table by using a narrow shelf. A simple switchback at one end can return the line on a different elevation and both ends of the point to point end up at the same end of the layout. When I reclaim the spare bedroom I will be looking at this sort of layout modelling CP Havelock sub from Peterborough to Havelock, and the Nephton sub running from Havelock. It can be run easily on DC and I have a Kato soundbox I can use with the system.

I know it's not for everyone, but I have been buying N scale DC locos and for Christmas I bought 5 Digi decoders without sound (I hate sound, sorry guys). I live in Canada and the biggest cost is tariffs and exchange in the dollar value. 25 to 30% exchange on the dollar 15 to 20% tariff it adds up. Sometimes I order direct from Japan on the Kato products. I have not been very lucky buying used unless it's scenery. I started out 3D printing buildings but have been modelling with real wood lately. Most of those building materials were bought at Dollar Stores It's very satisfying. 3D printing windows and doors in resin to add to the structures. Wish I could afford a laser cutter. Yes something needs to change. Thanks for the video, it needed to be said!

DCC accessibility is huge. As a kid, I always wanted to get into DCC, but all I could do was ask for the Bachman DCC playset and hope that my parents would spend $330. Since they never did, I drifted away from the hobby, and now I'm not sure I will ever get back into it.

A good place to go is Train Shows/swap meets, buyer beware on locomotives though! 🚂 Daylight Dave!! 😜🤪🤗

You bring up a lot of valid points. I just started dusting off a number of my older pieces I played with as a kid some 40 years ago. I built a very small almost 4x4 size test track layout to get the powered stuff working again. Yes looking at the cost of newer loco's is to me really expensive nowadays and don't have the funds for those new stock. But what I have done is visit one of the local hobby stores in the city and go way back into a back room and buy some older stock pre-DCC. There are a number of older units, and rolling stock and tracks in the bins at a very cheap price with the better units going for up to $20 There are some for a few more dollars (maybe around $100) for other units with DCC as used pieces Heck I even found one of the rare 0-4-0 switchers, the same one I played with as a kid who would run it really fast until it hit a curve and roll off the track and sometimes on to the floor. Yes they have cosmetic damage here and there and some sold as is for parts. Others you can find on Ebay and maybe get lucky with a fairly cheap price. As you mentioned Scale trains has reasonable stuff too. I even pre-ordered a reefer car with sound and 6 moths later still waiting for them to be sold out so they can build them and I get mine If you do go after the cheaper stock, you will find the build quality suffers a bit I would like to have is DCC as the very basic starter as you mentioned and convert the older stock to DCC But a DCC is up there in price range for me and have not really looked yet as a cheaper version and to get the DCC chips installed into older stock (which can be done) The only other thing I can think off is buying one of those sets that has all of that in a kit and start from there, but maybe $200 or more depending on whats in it. Like the old saying is , it aint going to be cheap no matter what you do. For sure I will be taking my time to see what I can come up with and hopefully with the eventual goal is get DCC at least the basic set up is enough for me At least this is where I stand with where I am at with my HO Scale trains

Thank you so much for raising this issue. It is far worse in the UK. Not surprisingly, the hobby is declining and fewer clubs are now left.

I keep costs down by purchasing older kits. I consider myself a modeller first and a model railroader 2nd. I don't obsess with prototypical correctness, rather the overall appearance. I enjoy building and kit bashing. I think many younger folks in the hobby miss a lot with the current availability to just purchase RTR and set it on the layout.

Was thinking the same thing for a while. We went from generic "close enough for no railroad" mass-marketed kits for the major railroads to "detailed for specific railroad" limited-run R-T-R for obscure lines (that has to be a money hole for manufacturers). Kits went from shake-the-box, a couple screws and it rolls to my-God-I've-lost-my-will-to-live-gluing-on-all-these-grab-irons, half-finished sitting on a closet shelf. Early on, manufacturers went with *color* to drive sales, so most old MoPac (my preferred prototype) boxcars issued in the 50s-70s you see are the blue and grey merchandise cars. Well, once you get into exploring prototype operations (or just read the note on the car itself), you find those boxcars rarely left MoPac rails. TOFC was usually home-road as well. So having NKP, SF, SP, UP, NYC, Pennsy, and B&O TOFC may look nice on a layout, it wasn't anything real railroads did -- especially since early TOFC terminals had proprietary systems. Once a beginner moves from a circle of shiny cars to selecting a prototype road and an era, that is when the hobby gets "expensive." They have to make "re-purchases" to replace what doesn't fit. And then they have to make "specific purchases" in limited run format for what does fit. As a baseline, manufacturers should offer: ° DC locomotives that are DCC ready; ° Locomotives and rolling stock that are painted and lettered but un-numbered. Include a dry transfer sheet of numbers a purchaser can add (without needing MicroSet or SolvaSet to look good). And which a subsequent purchaser (used on eBay or a train show) can alter or remove without stripping the car. This, I think, would drive repeat sales; ° Kits that are detailed but don't require advanced skills to complete. Yes, we need a few "hero" cars in our operations trains. But we can get by with less detailed cars in our staging yard-to-staging yard run-through trains; ° Clearly marked "era references" on the box (Example: NYC Century Green Boxcar. Number Series ###### - ######. New/Rbt 1958. In service 1958 - 1970s). Because maybe I like the way it looks. Oh, look, colorful! But I don't know anything about the NYC; ° STAY AWAY FROM MASS PRODUCING "ONE-OFs." Searching eBay, it's amazing how many HERBIE safety cars and the grey DF cars pop up for MP. There was only one of each. Apparently every MP modeler was going to buy them just because they said MP on them (I own neither just because of the annoyance factor). Or other modelers would buy them for their uniqueness. Whatever the reasoning, it clearly isn't going to drive repeat sales; ° Stick with basic railroad color dip job paint schemes on undecorated rolling stock. Walthers put out an NW2 a while back that they released in obscure road names and then unlettered but painted in oddball paint colors/schemes. I was like.... You couldn't make one in just black like 90% of railroad switchers were? Anyway, those are my rambling thoughts on how manufacturers could drive up their sales and drive down our costs.

As long as the current manufacturers keep up their current business preorder and just-in-time manufacturing model, there really isn't a solution within the existing market. They don't care about sales volumes anymore, they've learned they can make more money by producing less, charging more, and focusing solely on the high wealth bracket demographic. So what do you do? You force the market to change, and that's going to take a new manufacturer with a new way of doing things that can undercut the market. One idea I've had was to mass-produce common parts only, and then take advantage of resin 3D printing to make the model-specific detail parts to order. You save money because you don't have to machine dies and molds for every single variant of a model, in exchange for having a bit of lead time on each order. And then the financial savings can be passed down to the customer. No need to trick customers into basically filling out an order quota under the guise of "preordering" only to then have them wait for years if the model is anything other than a Big Boy, GS4, F7 or other "celebrity" locomotive with a high-popularity roadname. Taken to an extreme, you can design a universal chassis for a particular type of locomotive, just keep making a bunch of those, and then finish each locomotive to order. And it would still be cheaper than the current model, because your overhead is that much lower since, again, you don't have to make molds for everything. The electronics may be a part of it, but they're not the only factor or even the main factor.

5:59 Oh! You’re an App State guy? Both of my parents were as well! I make many a visit to Boone on a frequent basis. Also, excellent video! I model in O Gauge, which has been making strides in recent years to make command control easy and affordable. (However, with the size of the trains, a new locomotive can run you at least $200. There are very few models you can find cheap.) As for coffee, I don’t drink a lot of coffee, but when I do, I’ll drink good ol’ Moravian Lovefeast Coffee. There’s plenty of cream and sugar in that!

Hi Jimmy. Happy New Year, by the way. I think you are pretty much spot on. The hobby IS expensive, but I think manufacturers and suppliers are rather blinkered in these cash-strapped times. In the UK we have OO gauge (scale), which is the nearest we have to HO scale (we DO import HO scale items). One of our major manufacturers is Hornby and they have recently announced their 2022 range and they are just trying to price themselves out of the market, or they're just testing their loyal customers who constantly buy their models (they are by no means perfect for the high price they charge!). This is no way to entice new modellers into the hobby.

It's great to here someone interested in the high cost of the hobby. You have to keep your eyes wide open to get good deals and better than golf.

I met a guy at my local railroad shop he said he has already spent thousands on a dozen engines and hundreds of cars and he still doesn't have a track set up. I started dc and now have dcc dropped in my own decoders and bought a few dcc sound equipped.

This was really a great post. Modeling in an expensive hobby. Sad, because it keeps many of us sane.

This is very helpful video,I'm leaving O gauge for H/O due to the affordability. Plus H/O allows more in less of a space. H/O is not too small and not to large. Bonus is getting rid of the 3rd rail.

Hi Jimmy, thanks for all your efforts. I have recently decided to start in the hobby at the age of 70. My concern with expense is the exchange rate between Australia and the USA plus postage. This can actually double the price of some stock for us down here. I am gradually easing in buying a few items and will look at bulk purchases to save on postage if possible. The hard part is finding suitable N scale loco's for a logging & coal operation in the late 30's - early 40's. Still, all part of the fun I guess. Keep up the good work.(I drink Moccona #8 coffee) Cheers, Andy

Hey jimmy,I agree and sets or budget buys can help. The cost of manufacturing and materials are sky rocketing and we pay for it in the end. I prefer train shows and ebay. I just recently picked up 2 kato sd70ace's for $100 and 18 atlas frieght cars for $25. Keep pushing forward my friend. Bogota sunrise and 5 creamers😁😁

Ugh, why do we insist that beginners start this hobby by jumping directly into DCC? You can just avoid the cost of DCC by running your railroad with good old fashioned analog DC. Sure the wiring may be a little more complex, but the cash outlay is much smaller. Atlas still makes their affordable modular "Controller" and "Selector" components which can greatly simplify the process, a frugal shopper can even buy these items second hand. The same goes for analog locomotives, an old Athearn Blue Box F 7 can be had for fraction of the cost of a DCC equipped model. With a little planning anyone can wire a DC layout that can be upgraded to DCC at a latter date as funds permit. The most important thing a beginner should focus on is to get a layout built and get some trains running, expensive control systems and high end rolling stock should be saved for later.

I am a hobby fanatic all my life. I am 62. Real Classic Cars - Trains N and HO - Slot Cars HO and 1/32 - Models - Radio Control Boats - Planes. EVERY HOBBY starts out small and eventually BALOONS into HUGE dollars. Thousands over the years to many thousands. Real Classic Cars are insanely expensive to buy and if you need to bring them to a shop. It ends up being a complete life time of ALWAYS wanting something else. It is as bad as being on drugs or alcohol without the health ramifications. I recommend not getting involved with hobbies at all.

When I younger and was into N Gauge trains which I absolutely loved I could go to my local Hobby Shop or other local Hobby Shops in the area and pick up everything that I would need. I could browse, pick up and see what I was buying. Today, Hobby Shops are pretty much a thing of the past. Now, of course, everything is online and I would say that trying to start out is even harder.

Ding ding! I'm a tram and I approve this video! Great footage!!

Great video, agree with everything you said. To encourage younger people to the hobby on a budget or even someone with a small family and a mortgage that doesn’t have loads of cash to splash.

On December 26th, K-Mart, Gold Circle, Clarkins and others would put their HO stock on sale. I would buy rolling stock at .99 cents . Locomotives started at $5.00. Track and accessories were also cheap. Christmas money well spent . That was the early seventies. Still have all the stuff I purchased.

it's ridiculous that they want us to spend $50 for a single car that, honestly, really isn't anything special... modeling isn't supposed to be a game of who can spend the most money, it's about stretching what you've got into something that you can enjoy, show your talent and skills, and learn from, by doing it yourself. $50 for a single car makes a 10-car train $500!!! I get that everyone is into the hobby for a different reason and "expensive" is all relative, and of course inflation factors in, but it just seems insane to me that it's come to this, especially since this hobby was, literally, built on building.

I'm a Lionel operator, and strictly "old school"...I find all this computerization is the thorn in the flesh. Again, this is my opinion...each to his...or her...own. Another item, when the micro electronics go south...the repair...or obsolete problem!

Great video. Agree with your what you had to say about the pricing and cost of products today against say 10 years ago. You get what you pay for.

I totally agree. What I think is the most unreasonably expensive is track here in australia.

Another thing that I've seen some of but not a lot is mobile integration. I think manufacturers don't do a lot of that because the demographic and target audience of model railroaders tends to be older and less likely to go to their cellphone as a solution, but if the target is entry level or getting people into the hobby, just having wifi-capable engines that you can control might be a cost-effective way of doing things for set manufacturers. The control box would just be power and the trains themselves would connect to the house's wifi. Most consumers already have wifi set up in their homes so you just piggy-back the connectivity. I think mobile integration might be a great way to draw in a younger generation.

I always considered the late 1980s and early 1990s to be a good time for model railroaders on a tighter budget. The trainset distributors and manufacterers, Model Power, Life-Like, and then Bachmann, began offering quality N-scale locomotives at a low price. The body shells were better-detailed, both trucks were powered, and they came with stout 5-pole motors, except Model Power's F40PH, or RSD15, which were equipped with a bigger Mabuchi 3-pole armature. Before the re-power, the Model Power offerings were badly lacking. Those engines aren't as good as what's available now, but they were less than $30.00 and one could really build some engine lashups, for the model railroad, in short order.

Whatever you do, don't look at speciality railways like Queensland Rail. Very low production, and massively expensive. Then again, OO9 British industrial tramways are often quite established in modelling, and you can make cheaper steam if the tramway ran alongside roads a lot; to avoid disturbing animals, steam locos had covers over their final drives, so there could be anything under there. Even a Kato N tram chassis. Also, papercraft will solve a lot of your scenery issues, assuming you don't go overboard and represent corrugated sheet with printed paper etc. Moccona instant, white.

I Like that you try to keep things simple

I think one way to market towards people on a budget would be to develop a product line that is centered around what kind of model railroading a person wants to do and expanding on it. You have three main categories: continuous running, prototypical operation, and a hybrid of the two. From that you create sets of locomotives, rolling stock, structures, track packs with plans, guides to operation, historical information, and expansion sets that are focused on all that but also take space, era, locale, and budget into consideration. The idea is to keep all purchases relevant to what the modeler wants without overwhelming them, as well as guiding them into good practices and habits that will save them money and provide variety relevant to what they are modeling. I've seen a lot of people invest in the hobby without a clear idea or method to get what they want, and it ends up being expensive with a lot of extra stuff they don't use or end up selling later when they finally do figure things out, and you never get retail price when you resell. I think getting away from what you typically see in trainsets (locomotive with a mixed lot of cars and a loop of track) and focusing more on operation (i.e. a set with a mainline locomotive AND a switcher, cars that are specific to certain industries, a layout with a couple spurs, a booklet of relevant historical/operational information on everything included in the set, and even some tools) could do a lot to make sure people make better use of the money they have.

I’ve been surprised (read: caught out) by manufacturers releasing non-DCC upgradable locos. In my example, the mfr simultaneously released a DC version and a DCC version in N scale. Little did I realise they were significantly different internally. From a technical standpoint that’s mad - the chassis was different, the wiring was quite different, and a reasonable amount of work was required to add a decoder. Instead of making a DCC ready loco with either a decoder or a DC plug? Madness.

As per scale trains they say that the operator series is the worst seller and it might go away in favor of the rivet counter only. Not any profit in the budget models.

An inexpensive option is to go virtual, with a train sim; there are lots of these and they do let people get into the hobby in a simulated virtual fashion for not much money at all, so it is in no way a hobby which is completely closed off to those with limited finances providing they have a computer or a mobile device. Train sims can be useful for planning a physical layout too of course, but they are something one can enjoy just for what they are with little in the way of scope limitation. Now granted, they do not give you the basic visceral feeling of having something in your hand which physical railroad modeling offers, or making things with actual glue, paint and craft materials which is a big part of railroad models for many people, but you can 3D model these things virtually if you have the inclination, and as noted, it does supplant that 'hands-on' disadvantage with many other plus points, not least of which is cost, however, of more benefit than this is the fact that one is in no way limited by size for a layout - you can build or buy a layout the size of the real thing if you like with literally hundreds of miles of track if you want to - and then you can actually 'sit in' the locomotive and drive it from that viewpoint if you wish, so in this sense it is more realistic than a physical scale model railroad and offers something a physical model railroad cannot. Back with physical model railroads, another problem which you did not touch on is that generally speaking, the smaller you go in scale, the more expensive it tends to get, even though it does allow one to go for more prototypical layouts within a finite space. I found this out fairly recently when I got to building a Z scale layout; if you think HO scale models and track are pricey, have a look at what some of that Z scale stuff costs - I think my Z scale layout track alone was getting into the several hundred quid mark purely because of the cost of turnouts since it has thirteen of the things on it, and their small size means they are more difficult to manufacture of course, with a price commensurate with that production difficulty. What can mitigate that to some degree is things like ebay, where if you keep an eye open you can find things at more amenable pricing, but to get even a reasonably decent sized freight train in Z scale is not something you can expect to do for anything less than several hundred notes. What always helps of course, as with any hobby really when it comes to reducing the cost of it, is if one is good at making things, which fortunately I am so this is something I do and enjoy. But since this is something which certainly can help people to reduce costs it is why, if this is a mission you care to champion in the hopes of making things less expensive to get into, it would be good to do videos about how one can make a lot of stuff from basic crafting materials and ingenuity, rather than simply buying model kits. An example of this would be printing model fascias on a basic PC printer paper, then sticking these to simple card or balsa boxes and embellishing them with a few glued on bits cut from more card or balsa. Salvaged clear packaging glued on the inside of such creations can mean you are able to glaze such models for next to nothing and a lot of the time these will be as good, if not better than any kit one might purchase. It won't make rolling stock and track cheaper, but it will mean that money can go on those rather than purchasing a ton of model kits. With regard to DCC being expensive, whilst that is true and DCC is nice, it's not compulsory, and it is as well to remember that you can have a nice model layout which uses more basic control. After all, at one point a few years ago, none of us had any DCC control and it didn't stop us from enjoying things, so this too is something you might have cause to champion for those looking at getting into things on a budget, because there is the argument that with a small basic layout of perhaps a small railroad or branch line operation, it's actually more realistic to not have dozens of trains whizzing about all over the place. Yes we all like having tons of locos and rolling stock, but it isn't necessary to still have fun; just a simple oval with a siding to a small shunting yard and an industry for it to serve - even an imagined one off through some tunnel somewhere - is all that is necessary for a layout one can enjoy with nothing more than one or two locomotives and a few box cars, and that shouldn't cost anyone too much to piece together.

A N scale Kato loco would cost $35 in 1985. Inflation calculators put that at $79 in todays dollars, so Kato is matching inflation. The increase in price beyond inflation comes from extra costs of finer details, more lighting (ditch lights), DCC and sound. Premium prices are charged for a premium product. Where the price increases are a bit unjustified is in rolling stock. Low and mid range rolling stock, without any increase in detail, have increased twice as fast as locomotives. One of the more frustrating changes is the short or limited run of models. Instead of a model coming to market and being available indefinitely the newer way, with limited supply increases prices as the cost or research, molding, etc is carried over a much smaller number of models, and as you say, by the time a consumer finds out about it, it's already sold out. I think even the current system may be outdated in 10 years. With 3d printing models could be printed to order, the only problem would be the painting of the model would still have to be done by a worker, but I can see robotic painters in the future, which would make producing models one at a time price effective for the consumer and with savings in warehousing and labor for the companies, the new way forward for them.

Another issue is space. Traditional model railroad layouts need a lot of it, and modeling requires a work space, yet spacious homes are becoming a luxury fewer people can afford. Shelf layouts are an option, but one with pretty severe limits. Modular layouts that can be disassembled and stored when not use are another option, but one that is going to require more advanced skills and may be daunting for a beginner. For now I'm running what is essentially a test track with NCE Powercab and a Kato Unitrack loop that I can easily assemble and disassemble. The beautifully detailed models are a large part of the appeal for me, so I think I'm just going to have to accept that they're expensive, and that I don't need everything right away - I'm not a trying to make profit railroad moving cargo, so there's nothing wrong with a few locomotives running light!

I agree with so much of this in theory but in reality this is very hard to achieve. I am an n-scaler so I can speak on that and there are a FEW manufacturers who rule that scale, Kato, Bachmann, Atlas, Walthers and maybe Con-Cor for steam/passenger. I also am in NJ so I have folks in my former club who work for some manufacturers of model railroad equipment and have some insight into this and I think although it'd be great for the manufacturers to release the sub $200 DCC set it is near impossible. Bachmann is the only one who may come close, but who here wants a DCC set for under $200 with 40 year old molds of ONLY of F-units or early geeps and 40 foot boxcars if they model the modern era? Plastic or more precise PVC is a petroleum based by-product, so goes the price of petroleum, so goes the price of plastic. Also to CREATE a new mold now by either re-engineering an old mold or starting from scratch is a HUGE undertaking with a ton of money to be thrown at it and there is no guarantee it'll sell well. Want to know why stuff is on the books for what seems like decades? That's why. Don't get me going on transporting and logistics on distribution either, not to mention the costs of prepping and painting/lettering multiple road names and numbers either. But what about 3d printing? Maybe in 10 years the costs and precision in which items can be 3d printed can match the costs now of mass manufactured items, but not today. Or do you folks want a huge company manufacturing cheap items like Tyco in the 60-80's did? Yeah inexpensive but it ran like crap. I'd rather buy fewer items of quality than more garbage. If prices get you down, check your local store for 2nd hand stuff and hit train shows. Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, eBay, etc.

I would think when starting out that we start thinking like the real railroad owner… a what do we need? Can we get it used and repaint as needed? We only really need 1 or 2 basic diesels or a good well rounded steam loco, the basic cars you need for your layout, and a quality control system. Focus on the basic start, look at the old MRR railroads from the 1950’s, one loco, 6-8 cars and build from there. Focus on scratch building and basic scenery. Some creative track planning, that then can let you get going and build from there. We focus on trying to make everything look like the layout that has been years in the making. Start simple, and learn as you go, you can reach whatever level you want with time and patience. The world of mini layouts is another way to start that doesn’t cost the earth, but allows you to build something wonderful, and gives you the room to detail without going crazy. Going back to my start. When you are starting out, or for that matter building up, think like the real railroads, each piece of equipment has to count and make a profit, that hopefully will keep you from the trap of the collector. wish I’d learned that lesson sooner..

RU-vid must have suggested this to me as there have been a few videos on the prices of UK model railways recently. I think on balance you are still lucky over there with your budget offerings. Those multipacks of wagons looks especially good value

The affordability crisis is even more present in O scale. I am 19 y/o and I got into trains by running them with my grandfather’s and fortunately had a head start that way. I cannot realistically afford any new engine that Lionel or others put out especially steam locomotives. The prices are nearly $1200 for a nice pacific and if you want articulated loco you’re gonna pay nearly $2000. The thing is though they have not released a new product in years though, its all reruns and they keep getting more expensive each time, even 1 catalog to the next. The cars continue to get more expensive as well and a mold that was built in the 90s is still commanding a near $90 per car price. Ive had to resort to bargain hunting on Craigslist extensively to even begin to find affordable trains. Another thing that bugs me is the complete lack of modern models for O, this isn’t as present in other scales but its sad that we cannot get new locos at all. The most recent diesel are from the mid 2000s and the most recent electric is the Acela set. Its like nothing happened in the past 22 years to these companies. Mini rant over

I am happy that rivet counter and genesis and rapido and other super-detailed equipment is available for those who want it, but I had major sticker shock coming from model railroading in the late 1980s as a kid, when $80 bought a rather nice Athearn blue box or Atlas loco (DC) with reasonable detail and good quality, into recently looking back into it and finding prices of $200+ for similar units, and a hundred more for DCC. And yeah, fairly certain I used to get Athearn and Con-Cor ready to run cars for sub-$20.

I completely agree with what you've said. I think it's very shortsighted of the companies that make these trains. It's like any other hobby, if you can't bring in new generations of hobbyists, the hobby will die out. Model railroading is no longer for kids, they can't afford and it neither can their parents. It's become the hobby of older more affluent adults who have the disposable income to be able to afford it. Even then the cost of anything larger than HO seems to grow exponentially, especially the track. Lionel Fastrack is exorbitantly expensive, when the expansion track costs almost as much as the starter train set something is wrong.

Model railroading's biggest problem may be the notion that DCC is a necessity. It's not. Nor is code 83 nickel silver track. Buy code 100 brass. Yes, you are going to have to clean it once a month with some alcohol pads. So what? Move on to some Athearn Blue Box locos and cars. Life-Like Proto 2000. Rivarossi steam. Accurail. (For saying this I may be hung for heresy) BUILD A SHAKE THE BOX KIT. Model railroading can be extremely affordable.

Hi Jimmy. For me the entry point is DCC with good sound. It really changed the hobby for me. If I were king, I would drop DC only entirely and let DCC ( that can run on DC ) be the entry level. DCC ready locos already have a pc board so adding the parts to support basic DCC would be well under a dollar in cost. So the base price could be $80 instead of $79. I think the real profit makers are the sound decoder guys. Their "tooling" is firmware and it is expensive to develop but they don't have to make new firmware all that often. So their "tooling" cost is amortized over much more than a single logo production run. Bet they pay under $5 per decoder for parts and PCB assembly. Don't know what the Loco manufacturers pay for a decoder but I pay more to buy DC and upgrade than to buy a sound equipped loco in the first place. I am really impressed with the latest Atlas GE-Dash8... I got two for $159 each. Great detail and working ditch lights.

Hi Jimmy! Drinking a home-made Tim's Double-double (since we can't go there). I find myself agreeing with many of the things you say. Some "possible solutions" are not available where I'm at - train shows, local hobby shops, and so on. As to MSRP costs, I'll just mention that prices are higher elsewhere, which also does not help. I have been hoping for the thick end of 2 years to find some route to get back into model railroading, I have not found one, cost being 90% of the reason. I know I'm not alone in that, which is a sad thing in some ways. There is much in the hobby that can be fascinating for many folks, but there are some basic items that a model railroad layout needs - track and rolling stock, for example. Using really "old-school" techniques, I can fudge up some believable scenery at relatively low cost. It may be that going back to the building and "kit-bashing" methods of making rolling stock and even track will likewise be needed. The result may not be a true-to-scale "rivet counter's dream" but may work, after a fashion. We'll see. There are many comments already about the price of DCC equipped locomotives not being an issue. Well, sorry boys and girls, but for many it is an issue. As to injection-molded or die-cast plastic freight car bodies, some are very good, but some are things for which the tooling was paid for 30 years ago (others have mentioned that the same is true in the UK). Why such an object should cost $40-$60 each is a mystery - many of these are not highly detailed or even true-to-prototype products. The industry seems focused on oohing and aahing about expensive models. Perhaps that's what the market is calling for? I do wonder about that.

Don’t drink the coffee from Tim Hortons in Newmarket, Ontario. That stuff is un-drinkable. You only buy it if you getting with a meal, on a dare or if you want to sit in the store and not get kicked out!

One thing to point out about pricing is your showing these prices at large retailers that can discount down to 20% or more. There are a lot of small local hobby shops that can't compete on the pricing so i would suggest telling us the msrp price but mention that those items can be found cheaper if you shop around, etc. Overall, great video, I would love to see the car packs too :)

I would agree with you about prices. I've been in the hobby on a fairly serious level since the mid 1980s. A superior quality HO locomotive (Atlas, Stewart, Kato) was around $50, remember an Athearn F7 didn't even include a windshield! As you said a non DCC locomotive can still be had for less than $100, but add in a basic decoder and that's going bring up the cost. And lets not forget the demise of the local hobby shop is going to force you to buy online. Shipping costs are going to add $10 to $15 to your purchase. Even E-Bay is getting expensive. Kits of structures that used to be $10 to $12 are now over $25. One thing people must absolutely consider now is focusing on what you need for your railroad, not what looks neat and catches your eye. Can't tell you how many things I bought because they looked good at the time. At $10 or less not much of a problem, but now, no way. For better or for worse, the era of the $2.99 Athearn blue box freight car kit is gone.

For me The goal in the Hobby is Artistry, Electronics, and being frugal.

The other big limiter is space, I’ve had my trains packed up for years since I can’t afford my own place to have room for a layout

Great video man thank you very much

If you are on a tight budget you should rather buy a few quality items you are happy with instead of a heap of junk that makes you regret your buy. Avoid "cheap" starter packs, even kids aren't happy with them, so the items get replaced by better ones after a short while, which makes the starter pack a waste of money.

Jimmy, that is the best and most sensible video you have ever made I think. Will the manufacturers listen to you? Of course not. Why be sensible when you are making money. The next step would be to manufacture base loco kits with 3D printable plans for the bodywork. Set standards so that all manufacturers make compatible motors etc. Much like VHS and beta in the old days. Notice also needs to be taken of the difference in scales between American and rest of the world. 1:148 and 1:160. Some of the prices you are quoting sound exciting to me but add shipping and import charges and they become unrealistic to European buyers. Please keep pushing this issue with everyone you deal with. Let the customer (consumer) be right for a change. If prices were lower more people might be interested thus leading to more sales and spreading the cost of the prototype moulds.

I got back in to my train collection I thought I lost every thing but when we moved I found what was left . When I got in to the hobby you could by car kits and put them to gather for I it was a lot of fun . There are hobby shop's on line that seal good price DC Locomotive new . I known dcc is the way to go but it is the price . What type of track bed should you use I got foam to start with mostly do to the price cork cost so much money I heard cork rots out ? The nests hobby shop is over 1 hour one way plus I live on a fixed income

Regarding Trainshows and other avenues to save money. The premise here I believe was 'introductory sets'. I know I would not spend $200+ on my first anything at a trade show.

To save on costs I try to recycle what i can from old layouts. I also look for deals on ebay, websites, and hobby shops. Maybe this year I will get the mrc tech 6 since I have a fleet of old DC locomotives and DCC ready locomotives to help plan for the future.

Jimmy, I agree. Right now if you purchase a starter set of sorts, its going to be DC and not DCC based. Even DCC is getting long in the tooth, and manufacturers are moving to the next generation of LCC (Layout Command Control). Evolution is necessary. DCC is more than 30 years old. I think the real reason for keep the prices high is that manufacturers are afraid that they will make our existing investments worthless if they introduce something based on the previous generation of molds at a lower price, or put the same motor in lower priced locomotives. I personally just want more people in the hobby. I actually prefer to purchase my locomotives as DCC ready, and then put in my own decoder of choice (I like TCS decoders). I've rebuilt 20 year old Atlas engines with new decoders and lights that I got from my father, and they look and sound amazing, but I digress. Give people something fun, and they'll come back for more later.