Thanks man. I think all the subtle little upgrades and tweaks Phoibos work on is allowing them to keep up and offer quality still. I look forward to the quick adjust clasp being on all their watches in the future. That's becoming a given now if a sub £200 san martin can offer it.
I recently received the same color Phoibos and I really like it...including the Octopus! It's a very sharp looking watch. I also have a number of Seiko's. There's no reason why both can't exist in the same collection. Great analysis, thank you!
I agree with your end point. Personally, I’m not particularly bothered about specs and value for money if the watch is just a rip off of something else, has a dodgy/cheap looking logo or a weird brand name. For me personally, I value brand recognition and brand history over everything else. I do also think that more often than not, bigger brands just make nicer looking watches (some exceptions to this, obviously). That being said, each to their own. Would never judge someone who gave more weight to specs and value over the stuff I give weight to!
Nice review. Thanks for taking the time. I believe you forgot to mentioned that Phoibos despite its using a seiko NH movement they are taking the time to try to regulate better than Seiko. I bought one and it’s one of my favorites. Thanks again. PD. jack Mason is doing great watches. I just bought the GMT and it’s everything seiko can not at this point.
Excellent point, they do regulate their movements! Its a detail that is important, because I have never had a Phoibos that isn't running close to COSC time keeping!
Having purchased micro brands the issue for me is resale. As you remarked, the Seiko will resale for perhaps a small loss. The micro brand one should expect a half. So if you think it’s a keeper the micro is the value watch. But if not, buy the big brand. Thanks for your videos.
You are right, and that's why I always buy used microbrands and let someone else take the hit. I have recently bought three quality microbrand divers with Sellta movements for less money than a poorly specd Seiko
I have a lot of Seiko watches and a lot of microwaves.. Micro brands! My favourite watch by far is my SanMartin BB36 with a high beat movement. I checked it in all six positions and it is between 0 and -4 seconds. As far as I am concerned it's my perfect watch I love it. I originally bought it to see if I liked 36 or 41 mm and planed to get the Tudor eventually but having owned it I honestly don't think spending a couple of thousand for the original makes sense. The SanMartin is so good!
I have owned several of both, and Phoibos are far superior. You are right about branding, although people like me want a good price at a good price, and that generally means a microbrand. There are so many good divers out there, I wouldn't touch a Seiko. Ultimately though, you pay your money and you make your choice
Just recently bought several AOCasdiy watches. Never heard of them, but I liked the looks and they were inexpensive about ($10 US.) Microbrands don't scare me! 🙂 You just have to be aware of what you are buying. Temper your expectations with your cost.
seiko are game changers. my friends who dont know shit about watches still know about seiko. Phoibos makes such cool watches they are very underrated and often overlooked.
I would take the Phoibos, it's a much nicer looking watch, better made and I hate the Seiko handset. You're right, Seiko will win on resale, but I don't think I would want to sell the Phoibos.
My main issue with micro brands is availability. I tend to stumble into the cool watches about a year late, as I do not obsessively keep track of the latest releases from all of the watch brands out there. By the time that I notice something that I would like to own, it is gone. The inherent stupidity of the micro brands seems to be when they come out with a real banger, they never make nearly enough of them. Apparently being a micro brand means that you cannot make more than a limited number of a nice design. A key part of getting my money is that the product is available for purchase. I cannot buy what is not available for purchase.
Another point some people don't factor in is customer support which costs money to have in place (people need to be paid!). Tiny microbrands will likely be the guy that is running the whole show from a tiny office whereas a Seiko sized corporation will likely have 100's (1000's??) of dedicated staff. Whether that justifies the extra cost is personal, but you do get the assurance that you'll get looked after with a Seiko. Phoibos have been around for ages now so am assuming they have solid support too but some of the sketchy Ali x stores are basically wild west/anything can happen territory! It's all just a gamble isn't it? If you're happy to potentially gamble say $70 to get an equivalent $150 watch then great, but if you'd rather pay $150 to get a no risk $150 watch then that's what a lot of people want. That said though, Seiko do seem to be relying on their history rather than focusing on solid QA that the microbrands HAVE to get right everytime in order to even start having a shot at competing..
I have a Phoibos wavemaster and love it. I have Seiko watches too and love them as well. I buy the higher end Seikos wih sapphire crystals. All of my Seiko watches have drilled lugs and fantastic looking dials. So both brands have their place. Phoibos watches are better if you value quality and performance per dollar and don't want to buy multiple watches. They really are one of the best microbands.
Seiko is an interesting example of brand recognition. They are well-known, but what they are known for is okay watches at affordable prices. Now, they are increasing prices without improving specs and quality. It's weird to me that people continue to love them when they've seemingly abandoned what made them so great in the first place.
@ExleyConfidential Agreed. The only watch I own that's been complimented on positively ( yet(!)) by 2 ladies ( no relations) was my Seiko SNXK95J1. I can't think of a microbrand that's made something similar with such a beguiling dial(?). Brand acceptance probably takes years or a significant change e.g. Skoda cars were a joke ; not much of a joke now ( VW ownership helps) & Japanese cars took a while too ( albeit an oil crisis helps).
I had a Phoibos, it was ok. This was 4 years ago, they were making watches with cases that many other chinese brands were using. Those early days they weren't particularly impressive. Since then they've done a lot of differentiation, and have some interesting, original designs.
Thats so true. Weirdly, people ask for different, then are put off if its too different! I get it if a watch is obviously ugly, but Phoibos really do some interesting watches at affordable prices, yet people can still be put off for some reason.
I dislike the Phoibos brand name and logo is one reason for me. Others may like it and that's fine. The watches themselves are very well spec'ed. Another reason is I can't see or try before I buy many microbrands and have to wait for WindUp Watch fair to look at them closely to decide there. Even then not all microbrands are represented there.
Love phoibos...currently have 14! Didn't buy this one due to the clasp..even thought the watch head design is superb...but if you fancy putting this one on your eBay store let me know. Id be interested.
I'll take a Phoibos over a Seiko ANYDAY. I own a few examples of both. I've had 3 watches (out of 60+) quit on me. Two were Seiko's, one Citizen. Phoibos' are spot on time.
The only thing wrong with Phoibos imo is they are about 15% over-styled. A bit too try-hard. But that's just a matter of taste. They seem like great watches.
Big fan of the Phoibos logo. I would much rather see a recognisable logo than a name. Just tested the logo on my wife too and her opinion was cool logo for a dive watch. I think the problem with microbrands is that Aliexpress brands can often match them for a fraction of the cost. Whereas someone who is looking for a big brand name is not going to be swayed by a risky new company ( and will choose one from their catalog )
Its hard, I agree, being stuck in the middle between big brands who have the weight of history and a name to justify prices, then you have bargain spec monsters from Ali that wipe the floor with what they offer but rarely have any individuality. The happy medium is the micro! Fun designs and concepts at more affordable prices.
@@watchmewithwatches i think individuality is also not an issue for the majority of Aliexpress purchasers. My first Ali watch was a Steeldive submariner not because i wanted a Rolexalike but because i liked the look of it. I didnt know what a Submariner was or the Willard i bought next. All my purchases are based on sub £100, do i like the look of it and is it different to other watches in my box. Knowing that these are 90% similar to watches that cost £1000+ doesnt bother me as i couldnt wear something that expensive on my wrist (considering servicing or repair also).I think a microbrand really does have to do something special to gain my interest.
I personally don't give two shits about brand name watches I buy what I like not what everyone else thinks I should like I'll take a Phobias 95 percent of the time Now Grand Seiko is a completely different subject Anyways another killer video my friend Be well and Thanks for sharing as always 👍
I love my phiobos voyager,so well made but also love all my Seiko's from my bottle cap all the way to my prospex watches and my presage watches but for the money phiobos are amazing quality 🤯
I would readily buy a Phoibos but (like a Seiko) it costs too much. This is like comparing Hyundai to Toyota or Honda: yes they each make cars but the brand that hasn't been around as long doesn't have as good "name recognition." Meanwhile, I can't afford either and need to buy a used car.
Brand has weight, and there are certain advantages that come with that, like servicing, etc. But I think what you've highlighted here is key. Design is king. You have to like how a watchblooks and feels. All the specs in the world will do nothing for you if you don't love the look. Once that condition is met, you can start arguing about the crystal type and finishing and all that.
I would and have, taken a Phoibos over Seiko. I think an Octopus is actually quite a fitting logo for a dive watch. Modern competition has advanced by leaps and bounds compared to the relatively stagnant pace of traditional brands. Besides, no one’s paying me today for the work I did thirty years ago, I’m sure not going to pay extra because a company did a bunch of stuff a hundred years ago.
People are scared of things that they don't know. Don't be a sheep and follow the flock, be an innovator and follow the quality and reviews. You follow these pages, so follow their advice!
I have Seikos and no hate for them at all. Love my SARB035 and Samurai STO. I never wear my SKX007 with it's outdated movement. My Phoibos Wavemaster GMT is much better than any Seiko 5 and I don't buy watches for resale value. With rare exceptions reselling is just a matter of how much loss and the typical used Seiko would probably also just sell for half of retail. Specs are nice, but attention to detail is worth a lot.
Micro brands are more bang for the buck across the board, plus they take exciting and fun chances with design, name brands play it safe with the designs and are frankly boring.
Id rather have a Phoibos than a Seiko. Its better made. Has higher QC and looks good. Sure there is brand heritage but how long before companies like Phoibos get the respect they deserve? Dollar for dollar its not even close. These days Seiko's are hit and miss. Alignment and out of spec movements are all over the place. I also don't like that anything remotely interesting is either super overpriced or limited editions.
I could not buy a watch with a "Little Princess" Octopus on the dial no matter good the rest of its specs are. I do not have a down on Microbrands per say. Hardlex for a tool watch is better than saphire as it does not shatter. Generally speaking Seiko dive watches are ISO 6425 certified. Unfortunately the Seiko you have chosen is not a "Dive" watch.
I have no love for Seiko in their current iteration in the sub-$600 range. They aren't just resting on their laurels, t I think they're dying on them. Give me a micro with good polishing, solid end links, a signed screw in crown, a nice clasp, and a sapphire crystal any day!
I would partly disagree, Seiko are currently making watches that appeal to the mass market, as well as the more niche market places too. Its hard to please everyone, but they are trying!
Not really fair to compare the Phoebus to Seiko. phoebus is so far superiorvat the price point while Seiko rests on its laurels. Maybe better to compare the Seiko to one of the "homages" that completely rip off its designs (though on specs Seiko might lose there too nowadays).
I'll tell you, in my humble opinion, that I look at Phoibos watches all the time. I really like their designs and specs. I'd pull the trigger all day long, BUT....The logo. No. Really. No. 🤷🏻🤦🏻
The Seiko is more refined as the design has been perfected though generations. The Phoibus looks ok but you can tell it’s been made by a company without the same level of watchmaking knowledge as Seiko.
I just don't understand why you would pick the Seiko. They used to be great but that was a long time ago now. They're just poor materials and quality because the company know so many will still buy them no matter how bad or overpriced they are.
@@watchmewithwatches I know... and that is just utterly unfathomable to me. There are so many brands that have not only caught up to Seiko but have surpassed them and yet are significantly cheaper!
It's more because Phoibos make more niche products. Those always sell fewer. The Seikos and what have yous appeal to a wider demographic as they play it way more conservatively. It's all about target demographics.
@@DumasMoran Oh hell yeah! I have one and love it. I would call those a product that both watch enthusiasts and the general demographic can like. Since presage watches are all about looking unique and interesting.
I would partly agree. Phoibos do sell ok 2nd hand, but often for half their RRP even when all sold out of that particular model. I have sold Seikos for not too much less than I purchased for, but not always though!
I wanted to buy the Green Bezel/Green dial GMT DEPTHCHARGE, I was one click away from completing the purchase order when I realized that the shipping rate of the model I chose for where I live (Eastern Europe) was literally the highest compared to any other destination. 5 GBP for shipping it to the US, 20 GBP for shipping it to Romania. Shipping fees are added to the value in customs, so the higher the shipping cost, the higher the VAT I have to pay to import the thing from the UK. So I said "F00ck you and your microbrand" to Phoibos, then I said "Foock you and your stupid Brexit" to the British and got me an Invicta 1953 with an NH35a, for half the price. I went through the same thing with Cestrian, another awesome British microbrand.
