"I also watch war movies for the narcissistic part of myself that believes I would be just as heroic in the same situation" I wasn't expecting to be called out like that, but thank you for doing it.
You're absolutely right, I always put myelf into the place of the hero and imagined how I would mimic his actions and save the day, being celebrated like mad. But how on earth do i know whether I'd act in the heroic manner
@KvAT you're right. I wouldn't have enough character, although I certainly would like to have more, just like everybody else. It's everybodys responsibility to build up a strong character.
It's not narcissistic to safeguard something you love... Nor do you need "CHARACTER" to step into action. That's like saying you need character to help out a car crash victim while others stand their watching. It just takes will. Tf...
@@moguldamongrel3054 I guess that depends on evervody's personal definition. I believe most people are good enough that if somebody is in trouble they want to help. But wanting to help or actually do it eith bravery and competence, is a big difference.
I'm an Iraq war veteran and the way you break down your argument makes a lot of sense to me. I still remember the Bush administration's "If you're not with us, you're against us" statements. Leaders can exploit real or perceived crises to engage our tribal nature and it usually never ends well.
@@mrxtful I was 19 when I went in so I didn't have a lot of experience. 20 when I went to Iraq. Some of our guys looked down on the Iraqis, used slurs, that kind of thing. I always tried to point out how we would feel if someone invaded us, what did they think we would be doing? We'd be setting bombs and resisting. Pretty much every person I talked to about that agreed with me on some level. When I was initially there it was '10-'11, so the Iraq war was winding down and there were a lot of rumors going around that we'd pull out then because Obama had promised it in his platform. We were escorting convoys in and out of Iraq and towards the end we saw a lot of armor like Bradleys and APC's being taken out on flatbeds so we pretty much knew it was a done deal. When we left, I remember having a conversation with my direct NCO that after we were gone, a terrorist group would take about two years to rise to power and they would sweep away the national government by bringing a coalition of the various disjointed mujahidin fighters under one flag. We were right, and that turned out to be ISIS. I was bitter about the experience when I got home, I (naively) had believed we were honestly there to help the Iraqis, and besides giving some kids some food and energy drinks, or throwing water bottles to people who asked for it, we didn't do much interaction with the people. The level of poverty I saw there was crushing, people would ride around in dump trucks, entire families in the back on top of trash they had collected in the desert in the hope they could sell it for scrap. I saw people living in literal mud huts, the roadways were so polluted in the ditches that they turned blood red and pus green with chemicals. The sand was oppressive and quite a few days the dust storms were so bad it looked like you were on the surface of Mars with the red light from the sun only making it into the atmosphere. After I got back I started drinking a lot, I had been on the receiving end of bullets and indirect fire attacks and the stress of waiting to be blown up by a stranger who had been paid 300 dollars to kill you was a real mind fuck. What it did to me politically was push me to the left and make me extremely aware of what it would take to institute fascism, or how quickly a society could devolve, even here. It made me extremely wary of how easily corruption can destroy the mechanisms a society uses to redress grievances or just give people the feeling they're getting a fair shake. Corruption and chaos breeds a revolving door of instability and once a society has fallen into it, it is very difficult to right the ship. Sorry for the essay, I don't talk about it much anymore. It was nice to have someone ask.
the 3 hour long "warriors" and "Savior" are my two favourite anti-war movies, both about Bosnia.. I'd definitely recommend them to everyone who enjoys a war film in which there's not a single firefight
Same here. Incredibly thought provoking movie. How did I miss this till now? His transformation from small innocent boy. To an emotionally dead old man.
its not anti war film. There are few characters like mother of protagonist, they represent anti war position and they all dead in the end of the movie. The only ppl from the village who survived and alive in the end are partizans, ppl who dont have a duty to fight, simple peasants (more like plantation slaves due to the sssr kolhoz system but nvm) but they decided to become a soldiers and thats why they survived.
@@ГнейПомпей-з7х это как раз таки антивоенный фильм: суть в том чтобы показать какие ужасы несет за собой война, но если она случилась, то единственное что остается - это сражаться. и ссср по английски будет USSR
Something that always hurt was while watching *Saving Private Ryan* there’s a scene when they storm Normandy, and as they get close to close combat they come across two Nazi Soldiers who put their weapons down and hands up and yell “Please don’t shoot me! I am not German, I am Czech, I didn’t kill anyone! I am Czech!”. They say this in Czech and the American soldiers don’t know what they said so they shoot them. To majority of the people watching, this scene meant nothing more than two Nazis being killed in war; not two men killed fighting for a cause they did not like.
@@javanese-engineer They purposely didn't add a translation because unless you spoke Czech, you wouldn't know what they were saying. If they were to add subtitles, it would break the emersion of the movie. The whole point was to make you feel like the soldiers. They want you to feel like you're there, you're pushing the enemy back on the beaches of Normandy. If the translator is to show you what the chez men said, it is much harder to understand why the Americans shot them. To most people, that scene doesn't mean anything to them because in their heads, it was just two soldiers killing two enemy soldiers. That is the point of not adding subtitles.
I had heard about that some time after seeing the movie but that scene bothered me even before knowing the history. War is romanticized in many films but since a young age I wondered about the point that was brought up in the video of hoping for heroism and then dying a pointless death. Not to judge the actions of the American soldiers. As the video also stated, I have no idea what they just went through.
You've left out the part that the Americans perceived those guys to be shooting at them until they were flanked out of their position. Only THEN are they saying, "Don't shoot me." Their response is entirely understandable.
I wish it was on Netflix so more people would see this. It’s a sad irony that people that should watch this with the power to change things probably never will or even have any desire to.
As a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan back in 07 era, thank you. I've been out since 2011 and not many days go by that I don't wrestle with so much trying to make sense of any of it. I recall thoughts I had in firefights. Gleeful thoughts as I saw enemy combatants get blown off a roof nearby. So happy to see my enemies die. I know. It's disgusting. I've started crying as I write this. Overcome with the emotion of such evil that I gleefully invited into my heart. I'm not proud of my past attitudes and indifference. I take full responsibility for my actions and have spent a decade almost killing myself. A former severe alcoholic. Any drug I could get. I'm finally better but I can't say the same for many of my buddies. I must admit I do feel used. Tricked or duped in the very least. This film helped in some esoteric way. Thank you. I wish I had your wisdom 15 years ago when I so naively signed my life away for a lie.
I thank my lucky stars that I was able to turn 18 in a country without conscription and by all the things that are good, I'd never blame a soldier for the things they unwittingly signed up for. I hope you're getting therapy and support and I'm happy to hear the video reached a target audience..
My heart goes out to you and I just want to give you a hug. I just want to say that going through all of that takes so much strength. So many soldiers choose to cling to the lies and avoid taking responsibility, but you don't and that shows precious integrity and insight. That's all you can do, no one is born with all the right answers. All we can do is endeavor to be honest about our experiences and go from there. I hope that means you have empathy for your younger self. Being young and trusting others is not a sin. Now you are able to discourage other young people from enlisting with full authority. Are you familiar with Veterans for Peace?
@@louistracy6964 Just watched it myself. Watch it when you feel you are ready. It's a truly horrifying movie, but I think if everyone understood its message, there would be no more war.
@@Sirvalian It was made in the Soviet Union. But it's a film about the holocaust on the Eastern Front. Everything that the Nazis do in the movie is accurate. Anything written by credible historians (AKA not Holocaust deniers or Stalinists) will back up what is shown in this movie. The writers wanted to make the film this way, taking years to get it approved by soviet censors. In spite of the oppression in the Soviet Union, aided by the memories of those who were there, the makers of this film crafted the most accurate, visceral, but respectful depiction of the Holocaust I have seen to date. Please give context to your comments, because someone could read your comment and assume the movie is not good and not watch it.
"Come and See" is a Soviet film, not specifically Russian. Both Belarusian and Russian film companies were involved. Sorry for correcting, but it is important for people of all ex-soviet republics to be recognized as, you know, themselves.
Not entirely sure what you meant at the end (even tho I have a good guess, and I approve if so), but I fully agree that the distinction was needed. Thanks!
It's just a Soviet film. Why should one praise either of the modern countries for the product of culture and economic system that does not exist anymore? That is incorrect. Let's give them credits for the modern era movies. "Fortress of War" ("The Brest Fortress") is an example of a joint Russian and Belarusian modern war movie. There are some examples of transitional movies of course. "In the August of 1944" was a joint product again, but directed by a soviet filmmaker. Anyways, if one would like to emphasize the specificity or sovereignty, it is better to refer to the products of the independent countries with different economic, political and cultural regimes featuring this specificity and sovereignty. IMHO, no offence. Peace out!
@@robertstan298 I guess the last sentence implies that while technically the movie is a Soviet production, made by Russian and Belorussian studios, in particular, it is important not to narrow "Soviet" to only Russian, because it leaves out all other peoples who were also Soviet and fought and died in that war.
I'm in the military and I really enjoyed this. Especially the part about the 'great military taboo' - that could not be more true and it sits in the back of every mind. One thing I would like to add - and its hardly intellectual - but people go to war because they love to fight. There's very little of the philosophizing - most of the boys just really love a scrap. There's a second thing I noticed, and that is that war is an escape from the stresses and responsibility of normal life at home - marital stresses, financial worries and all the rest. It sounds mundane but there it is.
Bro, you may think you know how right you are, but you really don't. A lot of your old seniors have mentors still dying to deploy again. I still want to deploy again. I'm out now, and I still long to leave my home to go off to some random place where bills, appointments, car issues, family issues, just melt away leaving only "the mission".
I guess it's different when it's you, your loved ones and everyone you know that die and suffer everyday because of that same war. But hey! Who cares if it's just some random-ass people in the other side of the world, while your spouse and children are safe and sound, right? As long as you're having fun Hope you never have to be on the other side of the fence, i doubt you'd feel the same way if this were the case
WhyDoIkeepDyin he is not wrong though. it is easy for people to talk about the “desire” to return to war or to have an escape from the reality at home. but, if this was happening in the OP commenters country, it would be an entirely different feeling. there wouldn’t be such a strong desire for war. Patrick has a selfish, albeit honest for americans, way of thinking about war.
@@wtrzs I've literally talked with hundreds of foreign soldiers about war and their deployments. Its the same feelings. It is a truly somber moment when you and the guy you just shot at realise you're killing each other for the same reasons. Again, there was no need for the creepy anger or malicious wording.
I grew up and around a strong military mindset. My dad is a retired Marine, my mom and my oldest brother served in the Marines, and then I went on and served 5 years in the Marines. One point I'd like to make is that for us growing up, it didn't matter if films were pro or anti-war. It was ingrained in us that war was inevitable and necessary. That there was evil in the world and it had to be fought and conquered. Couple that with a hardcore Roman Catholic belief system, it was our reality that "evil" was something we'd have to deal with our entire lives. It took me years to give myself permission to challenge that mentality (thank you Socrates) and even more time to finally overcome it. I do think there will come a time where war will only be real in history books. But it's going to take quite a bit of awakening, which I believe has already begun.
@ I do not see humanity's desire for conflict as a defect. I believe it is part of our evolution. I agree that people are addicted to war and suffering itself. I think people DO want that Star Trek type of reality but they are afraid of it. People latch onto what they are familiar with. We stay addicted to suffering because even though it may hurt, we feel that we understand it and that we are in control of our lives that way. For the first time in our history, everyone has access to the bulk of information. As we teach more and more people to think for themselves, they will witness how they are influenced by outside sources. That their desire for war and violence is not actually what they want, it was forced upon them. Like The Matrix, people will reject enlightenment at first. But as we continue to see more and more glimpses of it, there will be no going back.
War as we know it seems to have largely disappeared in the developed world and is mostly relegated to fighting terrorism in the developing world. Instead we have misinformation campaigns, cyber attacks, political espionage and diplomatic friction. I suppose violence is not necessary when you can disrupt, mislead and coerce entire populations into empowering those who would historically have been the beneficiaries of war.
@@adammac125 - "As we teach more and more people to think for themselves..." Everyone is already thinking for themselves. What does that even mean? Say what it really is. Changing what people think. Missionary work.
@@holyworrier many, if not most, people do not think for themselves. Everyone has the ability to do so. Those that don't do it, allow others to think for them and they go along with it. It can be difficult to teach people to find their own answers without influencing them with your own beliefs. But I'm not sure what you mean by missionary work.
As a war veteran, this isn't just a great video on the problems in anti war films, it's a great translation of our own complex relationship with war and violence. I've struggled with the banality of evil and my own actions in war and in explaining my own reasons for participating in the hell of combat. I'll need to watch this a few times because you knocked it out of the park, and you've made me interested enough in Becker to pick up his books.
@Erwin Lii I think a lot of the onus is put on the individuals to be accountable, which is not entirely unfair. These are tough and valid questions. But too often, we are not critical enough of the structures that perpetuate this violence. I live with a veteran who enlisted with the US Navy at 17 because he came from an abusive home and had no money. The US military is built on the backs of the poor. They recruit from impoverished communities, advertise through movies and games that are popular among youth, and dangle the promise of free school and even citizenship. It's an insidious system that churns people up and dumps them out with next to no support. This video is particularly good because it illuminates society's obsession with these stories in contrast with its neglect of veterans.
@@worldsunreal2046 You know what strikes me everytime I see a comment like this? It's always "Oh, veterans came home fucked up", but there is never a thought for the people on the countries the us invaded, it is surreal.
The roots of evil stem from self worship and putting our self above all others wants and needs. It started with the devil attempting to become God. Think about every major war. WWII is best example. Hitler literally thought Germans were above all other humans, to the point of killing all other kinds against races simliar to his. Germans are just humans like any other.
@@Mr1van5 The two aren't mutually exclusive. What's surreal is seeing someone wonder why someone else didn't talk about x when x had nothing to do with what they were talking about.
When ever I read the lord of the rings I cry when, during Aragon’s crowning, Ioreth mistakenly tells her friend that Frodo went into Mordor and fought the dark lord him self. I never really understood what in that small passage tugged on my emotions so much. I always thought I used to cry because I knew something Ioreth didn’t. I knew that, for Frodo, nothing he did felt heroic. He was trying to fulfill his duty to destroy the ring. This duty which not only he failed to achieve but also one that left him maimed for life, physically and mentally. So, to see Ioreth mistakenly praising him alongside the whole city without really understanding they were praising, in a way, the utter destructions of Frodo’s life always made me pity Frodo. And until today that was my best guess to why I always cry in that small passage. This video made me think maybe there is a whole different reason I might be crying when Ioreth delivers her line. Amazing video!!!!
I thought about LOTR too! I believe it is also easier for us to accept the enormous number of deaths during the battles because most of them are of orcs, evil creatures that are not even close to being human and don't have backstories. And during the segment in the battle of Helm's Deep in which kids and old men receive weapons, I cry every time too.
In all these years of watching LOTR, I had never realized that Elijah Wood was actually trying to portray that very feeling in this face. Thanks for giving more nuance to what is already one of the best films in history!
Bruh I watched Grave of the fireflies with my lil sis. It hit in a way I didn't expect. After the credits rolled I just leaned over and gave lil sis a hug.
In the triler video of that film here on YT, I watched a comment of a Polish telling the story of his long dead uncle, as a mirror to the kid in Come and See. Save his uncle with his brother came to their village after fishing and the murderous Nazis were still maraudering the area, spotting them and firing. The uncle could escape, his brother was hit by bullets and the running escapee could only glance once at his dying brother as the last time he saw him.
@@arnonuhm4022 Isoo is OG, mate! My nickname comes when I was reading the book Berlin the Downfall, the final chapter is Führerdammerung (A mushup involving the title of Hitler and a work of Wagner where the gods die, because in German and Norse folklore the gods are mortal, unlike their Greek counterparts) because Adolf Hitler had a fascination with Wagner that is explored in the book. Then I decided Krieger+dammerung would be a cool nickname
The girl in it had me tranced. I think there may be two girl a or theres one who became unrecognizable because how she was treated. And she has this really , unique beauty about her too.
My grandfather became a POW after his ship the HMAS Perth was sunk by Japanese torpedoes in march 1942. He was captured ashore in Java, transported via Japanese hell ships to Singapore. He was amoungst the first group of POWs transported to work as forced labour on the Burma death rail. Only 218 of the ships 681 crew returned home. As much as people talk shit on Japan's treatment of POWs, the only thing my grandfather had to say on the subject was that a Japanese cook helped him by providing him with boiling water when he had a staph infection. It don't seem like much of a help to me, but he sure was grateful of it.
My grand uncle was a Polish officer and escaped off a Russian POW train in September 1939. He'd have been shot at Katyn had he not escaped. He lived on to be over a 100 years old when he died.
I saw Come and See when it was released on theaters, the art circuit in Rio. I remember the audience was in shock. Like people did not stand up and leave the theatre imeadiately, it was as if we all needed some minutes deal with the experience. That movie in the big screen is haunting to this day. I´ve seen it again in video. It is simply the best "anti war movie" ever made.
Hands down agree with you. I ended up watching that film as a kid in and was so horrible i had to sleep with my parents for a week or so. Years later during a tv re-run of it i realized it also was one of the best pieces of cinema ive ever seen and that still shocks me to the core.
@@marcomartins3563 I understand. You're precisely the type of person willingly going to war and ready to die for nothing simply from the illusion of heroism and support from the hierarchy, giving just the amount of (self) satisfaction to fulfill your mission of serving their own purposes. Brainwashed it is called I guess.
Just one veteran's perspective: I started watching ultra violent war movies at a young age. One of my favorites as a kid was Thin Red Line. To me it seemed super authentic depicting combat and it's stance on war itself somewhat morally grey. I found myself deeply moved by the most tragic scenes in the film and would watch them over and over and I would cry each time. Such scenes, wouldn't make me think or question my own ideas as much as they would leave me in awe of what I can only assume as an outsider looking in, was pure psychic devastation on these individuals going through what they went through. The first time I experienced anything qualitatively similar, when a friend of mine was killed in action I definitely did not feel the anguish I thought I would. I first chalked it up to the fact that he was not particularly close, but still someone I cracked jokes with when we passed each other... we went out occasionally on our days off back in garrison. Also that I'd not seen him die myself. His humvee had struck an IED and he was blown out through the up armored door and splattered some 20 feet away. I was in the QRF to relieve his squad, so I caught the aftermath well after his remains were sent on away medavac bird. I only caught the stains on the road... After the initial chaos had subsided, the damage assessed, returning to our small firebase, all the troops gathered in formation to receive a small pep talk by our enlisted leadership... "head on a swivel boys", "the fights just beginning" that kind of shit ... I stood in the shower meditating on the events of that day, of my first friend to die in a war and I can't say I felt anything close to what I imagined. Even afterwards, in more kinetic engagements, that is to say no-shit I was in gun fights, and in an instance where I too had to be medavace'd for my own injury while yet another friend had died from small arms fire nearby... I can't say that sadness and despair is what I felt. Not even during the memorial ceremonies...not even while packing up his belongings to ship to his recently wed/ now widow back in Massachusetts. No doubt I certainly saw others around me who exhibited those behaviours, like severe grief and anger in the heat of the moment. I was jealous of their passion. That they could mourn so strongly and hate so strongly. From my end I can say that, in such moments, I wavered between feelings of fear, anxiousness, and blind aggression... just trying to do certain things under duress, like speaking calmly over a radio to relay grid coordinates. All this to say in a long winded way that one can be lost to extreme focus, detached from an emotional state during moments of real violence, but when confronted with fictional violence where no control or power is held to change the outcome... they can break down in tears. That's my personal case at least. I became a warfighter for a number of vague and naive reasons, like money and familial duty and such, but being able to experience strong emotions was on that list somewhere... and truth be told, war doesn't beat a good war movie.
2007 RU-vid: "Look at this British kid say 'Charlie bit my finger!'" 2020 RU-vid: LSOO Narrator: "Let us examine the origins of human Evil and the effect it has on our hero systems to motivate us to kill each other in combat for what we believe is the Greater Good."
Fuckin' A'. Sign me up brother. Entertainment is all well and good and necessary, but so is hard, deep questions about our very existence, the driving forces within us, and of both our inner lives and the nature of our socio/economic/political infrastructures, and what direction they are going. I love videos that delve into the tough fucking questions on life.
I think these kinds of discussions is exactly what this platform should be used for. It was designed for far simpler, but it functions better this way I feel.
My grandfather, a WWII veteran, grounded my view of war before any war films were given a chance to skew it. "We weren't heroes. It's just something I did." To this day I don't regard soldiers as heroes or villains. They're simply people that did their job. Instead of trying to virtue signal by thanking them or making a big deal, I just talk with them. I understand their views well enough from listening that I often get asked what branch I was in despite my never having served. War films shouldn't make heroes or villains of the soldiers in them. They should portray them as humans experiencing the most horrific of human experiences. People that in the end like any one of us just want somebody to have a beer with them, hear their story, laugh with them, cry with them, and if possible be their friend. Nothing more, nothing less.
Two interesting facts: The first is that the US military/CIA oversee all Hollywood films that involve the US military and/or references to the US military. The second is that recruitment always goes up after a Hollywood war film is released, even if that film is considered "anti-war". The conclusion is that Hollywood does not, and fundamentally cannot, make an anti-war film.
Or that anti-war films are a myth. At the end of the day, film-makers can't control the reactions of their audience. People WANT to believe heroism is attainable, and they will see proof it is possible anywhere if necessary.
This is a myth unfortunately, the US military does not oversee film productions that are using depictions of US military personnel. I can't tell you how many times I've watched a movie or seen a TV show where there was some jacked up aspect of how a military character was portrayed, like two privates standing and addressing each other at parade rest, or a uniform with the wrong ribbons, or an upside down rank, or (and I fucking hate this) having the collar on the ACU top popped and velcroed. No one who ever served in that uniform would pop their collar and use the velcro unless it was a very specific set of circumstances, like someone next to you was shooting a firearm and the hot brass had a chance to go down your blouse. There are certain movies where the US military was invited to partner, like the movie Top Gun. Usually military movies (if they want to be accurate) will hire a former career military advisor who has the specific job of working for the film industry to ensure the military culture and uniforms are depicted accurately. A prime example of that would be Captain Dale Dye, a Vietnam veteran who worked on Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers. It is true though that some movies boost recruitment, Top Gun is famous for having boosted the Navy's recruitment numbers when the first film came out.
@@TheRolvaag a good way to tell if the movie was oversaw and maybe even partially funded by the US military is if it uses any real-life military hardware currently still in active service that is difficult or impossible for a private citizen to attain (UH-60's and other military helicopters, for example). It will also has some small text squirrelled away at the back of the end credits, where the production team 'thank' the US Army or such for their 'guidance' etc. So no, not all Hollywood war movies are oversaw by the US military, but there are ways of telling which are. Once you know what to look out for, you know when to up your level of sketisism when watching films or TV shows, which is a crucial part of thinking critically about the media we consume. I believe that is an important part of avoiding (at best) being misled by a misguided message, or at worst insidious propaganda.
Perhaps you are unaware of the Entertainment Liaison Office? The ELO has had a hand in over a thousand films and TV shows since 2005, including the entire MCU. Anything from Iron Man to Army Wives and Ice Road Truckers.
Well, Pentagon Wars was totally made with private money. It's said that if you want to use USA goverment harware, you cant show the US government as an evil, just one or some members of it can be evil, that at the end must be punished somehow for their actions, now you can see how many hollywood "anti-wars" movies work.
After seeing five minutes of this, I feel I'd be cheating myself if I didn't stop and watch Come and See before proceeding. The images from that film are astounding.
Thank you. All the men before me in my family joined. None of them saw combat. I did though. One of my closest friends was killed in Somalia and I was shot twice. I still struggle with losing him and not being able to do anything in that moment. My family calls me a “hero” but all I can remember is him lying dead on the sand
I never served, but I went to juvie for a few months when I was 15. Some people learn this about me and judge me as a criminal. Others think it's cool and wanna hear all about how it was. But when I think of it all I ever remember is listening to a 13 year old kid s couple bunks down from me who would cry for his mom every night because the older boys kept beating him up and stealing his food, just cause he was smaller. The only ones I've ever met who get it are other people who have been locked up. Everyone else just has their preconceived notions. Some think I'm a thug, some think I'm a badass, and others clearly feel sorry for me, but none of them get what it's actually like.
@@georgewilliamson5667 it’s impossible for us to understand having not been through it. You deserve people in your life who are at least willing to listen, though. Hope you’re doing well mate.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life" --John 3:16. Because of our sin, we deserve God's eternal wrath which would be brought to us in hell. However, He had mercy and pity on us and sent His Son, God's Word incarnate, down to earth to live the perfect sinless life no human could ever live. Jesus absorbed on the cross God's wrath of His chosen people, those who were or would be saved. He then died, and rose again on the third day, proving victory over the curse of death. Jesus is now in heaven with God the Father on the right hand side on His throne. "Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved"--Romans. It's not too late. Ask for forgiveness. God bless you.
One concept I've always wanted to have explored more is two individuals who are on the other side given their own stories until one of them kills the other and then the next is killed and the screen goes black. Nothing. I think silence is more effective than words ever could be.
No doubt both sides would consider their antagonist as "evil". Such a non term that is based on perception rather than actual facts yet it is used consistently throughout this documentary. There are deeper questions that require analysis. Your film would no doubt be profound in its revelation.
Check out Jason Aaron's graphic novel 'The Other Side'. It alternates between the perspectives of a green U.S. recruit; and a Vietnamese peasant convinced to fight for the North.
I had to watch Saving Private Ryan as a part of my English class after watching Come And See a year earlier. I can say with full confidence that both movies were made with different audiences in mind. Private Ryan was made as an ideal modern Hollywood blockbuster depiction of war we are familiar with meanwhile Come And See is a movie of suffering and atrocity which war truly is, it has a perfect ending that shows nobody winning. That’s the astonishing difference I found between those movies almost like night and day
Its even crazier when you think that all this is just through the eyes of men too, women are likely having an entire different experience watching these films, which I'm sure is feeding some other deep emotions that I'd love to see a similar video like this on.
A president has to ask to go to war, when congress voted to go to war in ww2, the only one to vote against it was a woman, look up what she said about it.
As a woman, the rape in war horrifies me the most. I'm not a man, so I can't say that it's worse then death, but to a lot of women it is. Especially in those times when your respect was tied to your sexuality and young women were virgin unless married and had no experience with sex. It was entirely an intimate family matter. What horrifies me the most is that so many men, so many HUMANS, could be brainwashed with so much hate that they would rape innocent women and even female children and grandmothers that took no part in the war, that never hurt them or their family. I understand that there will always be a few rapists out of many men, but war proved that the majority of men could become rapists. I don't understand how men could leave the seed of their child in woman as a punishment. So many women fell pregnant. How could they be so soulless to punish an innocent woman by making them birth their biological child? Have these men no attachment to their child? I don't understand how normal men can be lead to do any of this.
@@khansazainab7490 I want to know if ''every man'' is actually capable of doing this. I want to hear stories of men that refused to rape because they are good people... or at least be informed if noone ever did refuse.
Just watched it. If every adult on Earth watched that film, and understood it, there would be no more war, as the horror of war would be recognised by all, and avoided at any cost. It's a horrifying film about what happens when humans fail each other.
@@solarisengineering15 nah this comemnt section proves otherwise. Those who brag about not being able to live without killing people would just go in denial once again and talk about defending the country, heroism and other bs. The problems are strucutral, people have to be socilized differently and think critically. Some of these pathetic "soldiers" here even brag that they don´t have to think abotu life too much, so one shouldnt expect intellectual activity from them
@@henrijs1733 He'll be ranting incoherently and wildly about why his nation weren't depicted as heroes, as he had long been desensitized about the morality of war after he got hit by a mustard gas during WW1.
It’s a hard movie to watch, and I had to skip some parts, but after listening to people who endured through that war . It certainly was accurate to show how local citizens got involved and did the most unspeakable things . I never knew that till I really dug deep to understand things better .
Could you possibly quantify it for all the layman's and the just plain lazy here? I and I'm im guessing the infinite number of fellow RU-vid readers ( RU-vidrs, RU-vides, RU-vidians?) Would aptly be greatly appreciative and in your debt good sir.
watching the 2022 remake of All Quiet on the Western Front made feel like that it was the first time I'd seen a truly anti war film. The way that they showed the solders as nothing more than teenage boys dying in pathetic un heroic ways, and how the French were seen by them as this cold calculated mechanical terminator like army that was well fed and well equipped and seemed unstoppable while they (the German boys) where poorly trained and starving barely even knowing how to shoot a gun properly just blindly firing at the French as fast as possible without aiming in a panic and the ending, oh wow the ending, truly makes you realize what a tragedy WWI really was.
this AQOTWF 2022 followed the book about ten percent. The 1933 & 1980s versions are a hundred times better. This 2022 version is I suppose this generation of Germans coming to terms with WW1
@@RichardGalli-r6iI feel like it's more like its own thing, not necessarily a movie version of the book. Instead of diving super deep into Bäumers psychology, it instead puts heavy focus on the disconnect between enlisted men and high ranking military leaders, and how the average soldier is viewed as just another number on a report of casualties. I think it's an incredible film, but not a great adaptation of the book.
I saw Come and See a long time ago. It almost made me sick in the stomach, some images and sounds from the film have since then been etched in my memory. If that's what the director wanted to achieve, then congrats. He has outdone himself.
I have PTSD from someone dying as I tried to save them. Come and See affected me almost as much as that event. It is one of my favorite movies and I have only seen it once. I don't think I will ever watch it again.
Not many films can really depict the true horrors of war. I think the Russian film industry has the knack of showing the suffering and brutality in the most realistic ways. As for the British and American war movies, these are more of entertainment value than actual realism that could fall into the categories of action movies.
I heard somewhere (wish I could remember it) that a true depiction of a soldier's fear in the battlefield would need to have bullets pour through the screen hitting people at random and still force you to remain seated til the end of the movie.
I would only disagree with you on one thing: Those things did characterize _Soviet_ films during the cold war. Even a post-apocalyptic movie that was so heavily anti-war and pessimistic about the so-called triumph of the Soviet side that it's actually a shock that the communist authorities even allowed such a movie to be made, much less released to theaters, where it saw wide viewership amongst the citizens of the Soviet Union. The movie is called (in English) _Letters From a Dead Man_ and it's so unrelentingly bleak and heartbreaking that it's impossible to see it as anything but a forcefully antiwar movie. Russian cinema, on the other hand, at least the small number of movies I've seen from it, deals with all things related to war in the same way: patriotic action-hero propaganda tripe. It seems that every Russian film maker has turned into Michael Bay and I don't think we're going to see anything even one-tenth the quality of _Come and See_ come out of Russia for the forseeable future. As long as Putain and his propagandists are running the show anyway.
I joined the Army in 1991, four years after Full Metal Jacket came out and the movie was mostly viewed as a comedy by the guys I served with. Lines that were likely intended to be disturbing were usually repeated as jokes (for example, the one about shooting women and children). I don’t believe that was the intent when making that film, but that’s how it seemed to be received among active duty military (in my personal experience, at least). I was still in the military when Saving Private Ryan came out and I remember watching it in the theater with a bunch of tankers and they were laughing and cracking jokes almost throughout the entirety of the D-Day landing scene. However the scene with Cpl. Uppam breaking down in the stairwell seemed to provoke intense feelings of anger and hatred throughout the audience. After the end credits rolled, I definitely remember one guy yelling out that he never wanted to see the movie again because Uppam survived.
Thank you for your service! If you haven't seen Life is Beautiful (1997), that movie had similar controversy because the premise of that movie is a father trying to make everything in the concentration camp seem like a game to protect his child from the horrors surrounding them. The other victims in the concentration camp also get annoyed that it appears like this man is just trying to be funny. It is really heartbreaking to see how the father maintains a cheerful composure in front of his son but he is truly just as terrified as everyone else. I interpreted those jokes (in Full Metal Jacket) as the characters being so desensitized to the violence that they have developed a cynical view of humanity. They see so much violence that the jokes are like nothing compared to the evil they have seen. I think that Stanley Kubrick intended for their disturbing jokes to show the insanity that comes from experiencing war. I do understand why people would interpret the jokes that way because nothing about wartime is funny, but neither director had those intentions. Their jokes make me so sad in both movies but that is just my version of trying to understand and there can be lots of different ways to be impacted by both stories
The amount of times we said " I wanted to be the first kid on my block with a confirmed kill" as the reason we joined the army was actually insane. I joined in 2017 lol
I joined in 1987 and while I was in training Full Metal Jacket came out. It had an unsettling effect on the drill sergeants as they raked us over the coals in warning us "Don't even fucking think about it...." I had no idea what they were talking about but at the time it appeared to me to be an over wrought hysterical response to an effing movie, of all things. In retrospect, given the extremes of emotion a person is driven to when undergoing such harsh training, I think their fears might have been more justified than I thought. I know I was driven to extremes by the harsh treatment and I at least used to fantasize about beating the absolute shit out of one drill sergeant in particular who had for reasons unknown taken special attention to my squad and tormented us every chance he got. Yeah, I accept now that harsh treatment in training is necessary, considering what we were training for (cavalry scout, in my case, something at the time which was considered an elite and not long before I entered were one of the few MOSs that were wearing berets, a black one with an armor patch) but I also see how things like mass shootings and suicides seem to multiply the more notoriety and news coverage they get. If the mental ground is already fertile to extremes, sometimes all it takes is a suggestion. And wouldn't you know, during the time I was at Ft. Knox training a drill sergeant did get killed by a private with a rifle at the gunnery range. It was called an accident.
I find very few war movies are truly anti-war and it is for reasons like those you mention here. I think perhaps the only one that truly comes to mind is Grave of the Fireflies and perhaps Barefoot Gen. Both are movies told from the perspective of civilians who are on the losing side of the conflict. They show what war does to the everyday man, woman, and child where there is no glory, just death, dehumanization, suffering, and famine.
To me, "Come and See" was the most visceral and heartfelt emotion I've ever had from a film. I was entirely engrossed in the subject matter, and fully considered what it truly meant to be at war. I was a revelation that I have had with no other film since, prior, and I doubt in the future.
Watched this a few months back, its good to get away from the Hollywood bullshit and watch something worthwhile. Its an immense film, with a superb turn from the young lead.
This film is pure truth about the war, it is made by people who faught for their lives and land, who survived the nazi occupation, in Belarus hundreds of villages were burnt with all the people, hanged, shot, tortured. If you have a chance to travel to Belarus one day, visit the memorial Khatyn (or google it). And nazi collaborators, who assisted to massacre Russians, jews and Belarus, Polish people were Ukrainian nationalists. There is a moment in the film when these evils help to bring women with kids to a barn to burn alive. The film was made to remind people about what that horrible war was like. Not for showing off
It's the only war film I've seen that, insofar as it's possible, remains uncompromising in its anti-war message - there are no inspiring acts of heroism, there is no higher meaning achieved in all the violence. There is only a temporary state of hell on earth, and all we are left with is its direct consequences. As LSOO alludes to, part of the reason why it's so difficult to make a truly anti-war film is that it's simply too disturbing to sit through films designed to make one more fully understand exactly why war is so horrible. You essentially have to deliver a dose of genuine war trauma to all of your viewers, and then leave them to sort it out themselves, without any of the deep-seated cultural frameworks that typically comforts them with those things.
39:00 I always looked at him murdering the drill instructor and himself showed that he finally accomplished his boot camp training of becoming a killing machine
I used to think of Wolverine, from X-men, as my favourite Superhero. It was so badass how he would show up and tip the scales of a battle with a guttural scream and a feral slash. As I get older, and in great part, because of your work on this channel, I realize Wolverine is a broken hero. He is a man that can be depended upon only for violence. If the X-men attempt to build something beautiful, purposeful or unifying, Wolverine can not be present in any meaningful way. When cutting or stabbing or growling are not the solution to a problem, Wolverine can not be involved. I always thought Wolverine road off on his motorcycle because he liked being alone, but lately, it’s become clear that he’s a sword. And swords are usually sheathed. If your heroic systems are linked to violence, then your response to problems or conflicts will be violence. Which means people will respond to you with violence or avoidance.
Cyclops is more interesting to me. The character is pretty boring but he has the potential for extreme violence that he spends most of his life containing so that he doesn't hurt anybody and redirecting for the good of the group (usually).
Just to slightly go to bat for wolverine. He does have a use outside of violence. I remember in the 90s cartoon at one point someone specifically infected him with a super deadly disease knowing his regen would give them the vaccine/antidote allowing them to save lives.
EVERY heroic institution exists to face death on behalf of others. In that vein, you cannot toss out the institutions created to face violent death until you can guarantee that violence is gone forever. Allow those warriors who defend you some honor in what they do.
This was an incredibly well-written analysis. I thought I'd just watch the first 10 minutes but found myself so captivated that I couldn't help but watch it all. Well done
That film was truly terrifying to me. Every scene had me frozen, my eyes glued to the screen. Paul and his friends were just kids. Kids being fed lies of heroism and propaganda by their government. One by one Paul watched his friends die, then finally he was gone. And in the end they were just names on dog tags, bodies on the battlefield.
@@SpidaMez The translations change depending on the country. As a matter of fact, I feel like English titles are the only ones going by "All quiet on the Western Front". Most are something along the lines of "Nothing new on the Western Front" or "New news from the Western Front"
I have lot of friends who says that their life is dull and boring and in every party, every social interaction i have with young people I noticed one thing.... They are desperate for change, and in for that change they are ready to fight. Not in terms of the adventure and just to shoot the weapons.,but because young people today have no purpose and they want it so badly. They think a war will give them lifetime adrenaline rush which they miss in daily life. And when i ask them what's good ever come after a war? I got lot of different answers. Then one day i met a mother who's son died on Frontline. He was 20 year old. She told me... It's not worth it. The war, however glorious it can be, whatever is at stake, and whoever wins it... The war never should be justified. It should be our last option. Because some people leave home forever when war begins. Edit: please don't fight in comment section. 🙏 Edit 2: when i said that young people are desperate for a war, I didn't mean a war where armies fight each other. Today the time is hard on young people, they are being told they are lazy, not qualified enough and what not. They want to change the world so badly but yet can't control their own life. Times like these when young people feel that they have been abounded by society and religious texts. Entire World's youth is at risk at such times when they are drifting away, without any direction. And bad people use such youth for selfish wars, giving them the sense of purpose. I hope I made myself clear.
I agree war is becoming unjustifiable and should remain an absolute last option. It's hard to criticize wars of the past because we did not live in those times. But today, especially in developed countries, we have all our necessities met and more.
WW2 - To stop Nazi Germany and Japan Yugoslavian intervention: to prevent further Serbian atrocities Rwanda - RPF stopped the genocide and took out a political elite who were draining the country, as well as severing France's inteference with its society Sierra Leone intervention: prevent further war and potentional Angola style collapse Gulf War - prevent Iraqi atrocities and damage to Kuwait's economy Afghanistan - Prevent the Taliban from taking over Afghanistan and causing a mass exodus Falklands - Liberate invaded land and stop an attempted modern colonization War is necessary in many cases. You cannot seriously argue that not resisting the German invasion or not assisting the Bosnians/Croats/Kosovans against the Serbs would have been a better choice
and that isn't even considering the Syria situation with the Kurds and Rebels fighting off a dictator's army, and with ISIS in the mix! The airstrikes by the West are criticized but they were the only option left when far more effective actions were voted down in Parliaments,
@@marc9356 it's about confirmation not what they think actually you response sounds exactly what they probably thought about the Russians in 1941 good job
@@garethjames1300 Also, comparing me not caring about murder and rapists with murder and rapists is a bit of a weird one. I can understand if you disagree with me but insulting me doesn't help anyone.
I was a combat medic with the 82nd Airborne and I went to Iraq in 2009 to 10. Western Iraq was quiet then, we trained the Army, we secured peaceful elections, and we provided medical aid to tiny villages. I'm still to this day conflicted on whether what I did mattered or not. I didn't see combat which is a very good thing but also constantly makes me question myself for not having been exposed to it. Something dangerous and out of my hands. I don't know why I typed all this but thank you for this video. Subscribed.
My family is a blue collar military family, and many of the points made here were deeply reflected in my time under that family culture. My father, uncles, cousins, grandfathers and great-grandfathers all served in combat in every war fought in the last 100 years, and for a while I figured that the only thing to do was to carry this torch onward, serving the unspoken demand for service that my family demanded. But I had to find my own peace with it before I could serve, and I felt this truly outlined my thoughts on war, soldiering, and violence as an innate human response to the unknown and threatening world we choose to enter. I had struggled with the idea for years, not knowing whether I had been played into a system of indoctrination or if I had made an individual choice to try and do some good in the world. The abstract of the concept of war always fails me in my desire to seek a truth to the "Why?" of service, but I have found that boiling it down to the person-to-person interaction that a soldier is inevitably bound to encounter makes the pill not only swallow-able, but palatable. It is the soldier that fights, not the general, but it is the general that chooses where the fighting commences, and I feel if I am able to interject just an ounce of humanity in a system that plays the game of life and death like it is risk, I can fight to cease the fighting. Only as a necessary countermeasure and never as a means to more means, I wanted to fight the battle in the belly of the beast, fighting as a soldier fights but at a culture of nonstop conflict that can only truly be resolved by those who bear the shield for country. What a beautiful analysis. I hope I have not misconstrued your message, but this has only inspired me more to bring a peace to a hero system dependent on conflict to satisfy itself.
@@romanmanner And that is a bad bet to make. Consider the large number of recent uS presidents who are marginally or actually psychchopaths. And the fact that there is a defense industry whose existence is predicate on lobbying for ongoing wars. There have been what? a total of something like 20 years since 1776 I which the US wass NOT in a war somewhere (can't recall the exact number but it's been researched.)
at my high school, the principal was really onto the military and invited the military recruiters out every month with like speeches signup booth, and the works. and on the other side was one great history teacher that every student had to pass through at some point. who always told the story of this famous football player who got out of a 2 million dollar contract to go join the army and within just a few years he was dead in a friendly fire incident, complete accident no one was charged or anything just a pure senseless loss of life. but because he was technically killed in action the us army ran a whole bunch of recruitment ads about this "famous American war hero who died serving his county". and it took his family suing the military to get them to stop running the ad. the manipulation of tragedy into propaganda had a big impact on me and well of all the efforts my principal had of my graduating class of 560 only 2 of them decided to pursue some type of military career(I think one was an eagle scout, and the other to the chair force and wanted to parlay that into an airline job). my point is that there are a lot better anti-war stories than what is in films because there is an incentive for films to be mass market and widely excepted why take a chance on a risky premouse like anti-war. that's why they always betray the message right at the last moment just so the people like my principal don't leave a bad review. my thought is that if it doubts the honor and mystique of battle then it's anti-war. but the modern anti-war film isn't persuasive to people who buy into the honor complex tho. you'd maybe have to go with some non-holywood foreign stuff to get something that is actually committed to the idea.
You are talking about Pat Tillman, vocally anti war and it doesn’t seem like his death was “senseless” it seems to have been an execution. Much of the early reports are blatant lies. “A report described in The Washington Post on May 4, 2005, prepared at the request of Tillman's family by Brigadier General Gary M. Jones, revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, Army investigators were aware that Tillman had been killed by friendly fire, shot three times in the head at less than 10 yards away, according to Army doctors.” That doesn’t sound like an accident to me. “Senior commanders within the U.S. Central Command, including former Commander of the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) General John Abizaid, were notified by the P4 memo,[27] which described Tillman's "highly possible" fratricide, four days before Tillman's nationally televised memorial service during which he was lauded as a war hero for dying while engaging the enemy.” His clothes and his journals- in which he was highly critical of the war- were also burned by some in his unit. So the killing and coverup was much MUCH more malicious than I think most people know about.
no accident That player was murdered by his squad members for questioning the purpose of the US's war on terror. They use him for recruitment ads and stuff now Pat Tillman was a hero who recognized the atrocities he was committing and was murdered for it.
I'm currently writing a anti war story from the perspective of a soldiers journal. He isn't some great hero, he's just your average late 19th century rifleman. He constantly talks how war is some grand adventure until he tastes first blood and realizes its not what he thought. Each entry is just him trying to survive, no grand heroic action, no decisive victory over evil, no honorable or glorious death, just trying to live to the the next sunrise over a scarred field.
Mmmm sounds like "modern" war. Fighting for no purpose other then vanity pride wealth and arrogance. Not because your actually suffering or because someone's trying to kill you or because your ruler stands at the front lines like any common man, striving to free his brothers and sisters from oppression. Students of war...
But if we don't fight, what will the other nations rich people do to us is we lose? Who's rich will treat the poor better? None of them care about us, but at least some nations allow their people to make their own choices in life, for now.
In the past kings and rulers would lead the charge in battle. Often nobles rather than peasants were obliged to march to war. Things turned around from the late Middle Ages when the rich stood back and watched armies comprising of the poor battle it out.
@@ronaldostrowski4014 I read somewhere that those nobles almost never died in the war, and even when taken prisoner, they were treated quite nicely compared to an average soldier. Like today's officer staff vs the rank and file.
this is amazing, all of it.... "this is where we have to move away from successes and shortcomings of war films and towards the role we play as their audience -- because if filmmakers are complicit at failing at anti-war, then so are we."
I'm encouraged to see a lot of fellow vets have commented with their experience. I was a ER medic in Afghanistan. I never experienced combat first hand, but seeing the after effects has traumatically changed my perspective. To this day I still experience a form of ptsd that I feel in away will stay with me the rest of my life. It all seems like a blur now, all those years ago. I wish some how I could grasp at some sort of understanding for what happened but I am afraid that may not be possible. Thank you for listening keep making these videos my friend you have helped me through some pretty dark times.
People falsely believe that you have to have been in 'combat' to suffer from PTSD. That is clinically not true. The psychological consequences of trauma comes in many forms, and it's effects are highly individualized.
"A slow burning journey into a heart of darkness" - I see what you did there. Edit: Also, the captain who is relieved by Spears in Band of Brothers had suffered a wound to the shoulder, im sure it says that in Winter's book.
My son joined the Army in '02. He'd been laid off by a bank. He'd seen and loved Blackhawk Down so, though he could've become an officer, he cherished the idea of being a member of a close group of fighting men in a just war. He eventually did ten months at a FOB on the Pakistan border. Fortunately, he didn't have to face the level of action that later troops rode out, having left the Army in '07. Nevertheless, he had been deeply affected by having to break into houses in the night to roust the occupants. He was affected by being required to make sure that POWs got no sleep. In the next year he thought deeply about war, and abjured his service and war itself. If someone said "thanks for your service", he was known to say "you know nothing about my service". He had married a gal as he was being assigned. After the war in Afghanistan, he grew into a different person than the one she married. I think she respects who he has become. I certainly admire him. What good fun! Nicely done.
@@romanmanner I never met my grandfather. But he was a WWII Vet, who had the misfortune of being attacked by Hitler Youth and had to fight them off. Boys, the same age as his eldest children. My father was the youngest of ten, and never knew his father well. As he was distant, quiet and incredibly humble. But yet, still violent in an insidious way... He died, crying out for forgiveness from those boys and greatly resented people praising him for fighting the n*zi's, and helping to win. To the point where only my family knows any real detail about his service. It's given me a great reflection on joining in, even though every other cousin on both sides of my family are in the Service. Spurred forth out of either desperation for money and food, or out of a way of pleasing their parents or persue Tribal memory of becoming a Warrior. This was long winded, and I'm sorry for rambling. Your words just reminded me of many of my uncle's and aunt's who have served
Stalingrad 1993 is a great movie, so underrated and so unknown . . . One of my favorite elements, which it focused on, are the wounded, field hospitals, focusing on the fact that in war a soldier does not always die immediately, and often lies in pain and mud, often until death. The scene of the airport in Pytomnik is also good, it shows how these people, fearing death and wanting the only rescue that was the plane, behave like animals, more the situation and stuffing them into a large group shows a completely inhuman and terrible fight for rescue, these people soldiers are already running to the end of their strength, it should be remembered that the wounded were consumed at this airport, many did not survive after that and died of the cold. Many of them lost their fingers and other limbs to the cold during this pushing, and many were trampled underfoot. The sad thing is that after the last plane flew away from this airport, no one helped those people anymore, then the airport was attacked by the Soviets.
when you know some people who did Iraq or Afghanistan, or any other recent conflict, you know they never feel like heroes, and I don't think there are such things as heroes either. This is all a myth.
Stories of Old Bro, i'm a vet and I went to Iraq. I love film and I love your channel. In my limited opinion you caught a lot of truths in this video. I think you did it justest.
Been eagerly awaiting all weekend. In love with this. Marine served my 4 and have been struggling with the post OIF/OEF actions. The depth in this is illuminating and has cleared up my own struggles with writing a world torn up by constant war. The first time hearing the paradox concept outside my own mind. Having this understanding will only strengthen the moral resolve and struggle for self meaning. As always, your channel is a best friend to a writers heart. Thank you thank you.
Unpopular opinion but I don’t believe come and see is Anti-War. It in fact shows the need to confront evil but to avoid the temptation of you becoming as evil as the force you fought . The things that happened to him weren’t his willingness to go to war ; as his home was destroyed regardless . His courage in fact saved him though he paid a heavy price . The movie definitively reflects the true horror of war but presents the ugly truth that occasionally it is in fact necessary .
Absolutely. War can be necessary, but it should never be ACTIVELY pursued. This is the message of Come And See. The Nazis are responsible for all of the death, destruction, chaos, and madness we see depicted in the film. However, the film smartly reminds us that they are ultimately human beings, not monsters. The ending particulars communicates that, while the people of the Soviet Union need to fight back against their extermination, they are still equally capable of committing the same atrocities as their enemies. This is extremely telling considering the Soviet Union itself inflicted horrendous acts of brutality in their invasion of Germany. They became the very thing they were fighting against, and the people behind the film knew it. Come And See brilliantly demonstrates the absurdity of “Us vs. Them” mentality. Just because “they” did this or behave like that doesn’t mean “we” can’t do it also. This is why we need to remember both the “good guys” and the “bad guys”. One story serves as a inspiration while the other serves as a warning, and people across the globe need to hear both.
This video was randomly recommended and I'm so glad it was. And I'm glad you mentioned "Every Frame A Painting" because I was so sad when that channel died and have been looking for a channel like that one ever since. I think I have finally found the right one.
Knowing you were working on this video, I watched "Come and See" over the weekend. It's tough to watch. The exercise of spectating those senseless acts of violence, and wondering, "could this have been me?" is altogether frustrating, disturbing, and vaguely refreshing. The ending was equally frustrating, disturbing, and cathartic, but almost too optimistic. I think you nailed this analysis. Looking more closely at the individual self helps frame the macro-level subject. Something I've been learning recently is that we have this tendency to generate ecosystems around us based on our perceived identity. Hammers need nails. Helpers need the helpless, and surround themselves with the needy in order to be helpful. The lonely reject friendships, and so preserve their loneliness. Heroes need wars, and are somehow able to manufacture conflict in order to come out on top. I wonder if a true anti-war film would need to bypass the issue of war altogether, to display how our individual pursuits of glory and significance are either misplaced or unnecessary at best, or ultimately self-destructive when played out. Great video as always. Thanks for sharing your insight and thoughtfulness!
@@Sirvalian That's true, but why does that matter? Regardless of who made it, it's purpose was clearly to show the horror of war and how awful it is, and it succeeded.
Huge fan of Generation Kill, truly awesome.. I'd add that The Pacific is another great mini series; devoid of the sentimentality of Band of Brothers, the most purely nihilistic in its depiction of war. Definitely not as easy to watch as Band of Brothers, but above it in its way of showing how senseless and brutal war can be.
One of the most troubling things I see often with war films and war culture is everyone from current soldiers, to meme accounts on instagram, to youtube videos, celebrating the scene in full metal jacket where the helicopter door gunner is yelling "get some!" while shooting rice farmers in their fields as they fly over. It seems so easy for virtually everyone to look over the fact that the gunner was murdering innocents while happily parroting that phrase.
Hey nice! That's my music at the beginning there, and also sprinkled throughout. Hadn't heard of this channel before now, but I'll be paying attention to it in the future.
You are one of a kind LSOO. Thank you for this complex, flawlessly fluent river of priceless, meaningful, masterfully edited sets of your visualized thoughts on the subject of war.
A lot of Beckers ideas are conclusions that I have already reached previously on my own, and its comforting to know that I am not the only one who is constantly wrapped up in these dark thoughts
This was so incredibly profound, on so many different levels. This was something I had never even considered, but when you look at it these hero systems truly are in place everywhere in our society.. I mean.. hell we even LEARN about such hero systems in English classes growing up, "The Hero's Journey". (Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Epic of Gilgamesh, and 1000's of others) Except that we never, ever, reflected on the consequences of such systems and stories. And what they might really tell us about ourselves.. far beyond even just war and violence. Thank you, this was amazing.
On the other hand. It is desperatly needed. Life would be nothing without the preception that it is worth anything. I agree with the statements from the narrator. However I see no alternative. Heroism is what we desire and need to function. He pointed out your inner shadow. This is the only true point you can start working on. It is the only way to prevent you from becoming a misslead pawn. I mean do you have any better Idea ? That is what I believe many people fail to realize. There is no alternative. Its all about living and continuing your legacy. (Through children or a heroic deed) Whenever war is over it leaves you with nothing. A desillusion so to speak. And many fail to finde a new heroe (purpose call it however you want). "Nothing matters we are all going to die, sit down and watch some TV with us". -Rick to Summer from "Rick and Morty" So I don't see any solution to this mess to be honest. Just do what you got to do and be modest.
The best critique of the Hero's Journey that I know comes from a comic book historian: “We do not remember ‘The Night Gwen Stacy Died’ because Gwen’s death reminds us of our own mortality, ‘the destiny of Everyman’, but because the story exposes the fragility of each Spider Man reader’s fantasy." From the article "Heroes unlimited: the theory of the Hero’s Journey and the limitation of the superhero myth"
Congratulations and many thanks for your great videos and analysis content. Many interesting comments in this section, too. I will just say that "Come and see" is by far the top war film for me precisely because it is a shock to see. No romanticized action, background music, slow mo, etc. The innocent, lively youth at the start looks like a completely broken old man by the end of the film and after all the angst and distress we end up a tiny bit older too but I hope, wiser.
As a veteran, I feel there are few things missing, or maybe just not explained in as much detail as I would like in terms of the nature of war and what motivates people: 1. First, battle is a rush, and that rush is fun. It's the same reason people go to ride roller coasters or get hauled thousands of feet into the air to sky dive. I'm the wrong person to ask why we find these sorts of things to be fun, but it's undeniable that we do. 2. War is a real contest, which is intellectually stimulating in ways that are alien in normal life. In normal life, competition is tightly regulated and limited, and while (for most actors), war is not without rules, there are far more options available than in normal life. Out-thinking your opponent and winning, using the full capacity of your creative and technical capacity is exciting and rewarding. 3. For individuals raised in a modern, first world country, war forces you to consider death, a subject that you are otherwise sheltered from. You will die eventually, and you may die soon. When making decisions about your life, there is distinct value in having an awareness of the inevitably, and unpredictability of death. 4. War simplifies everything. You maintain yourself, you do your job, and you probably have one good hobby, that's it. The almost total lack of decision-making agency in your own life is relaxing. In addition, it's very socially stabilizing. Political, religious, racial etc. differences are minor and distant in light of dealing with an enemy that would happily slit every one of your throats if given half a chance. 5. There's often a sense of necessity. Sometimes the consequences of not doing anything are quite stark and straightforward. You can understand the motivations of your enemy, have empathy with them, and even reason that if you were in their shoes, your actions probably wouldn't be all that different (I know I did). At the same time, you can understand that their actions must be stopped or horrible things will happen. In other circumstances, you can come to the conclusion that the war is meaningless, or more often, in my experience, the war is of limited meaning due to poor strategy and poorly defined objectives. For this reason, I think anti-war films tend to start on an overly-simplistic premise: War is bad. This broad message comes off as obtuse and unconvincing. The most a compelling anti-war movie could say is probably "THIS war was bad". Even that tends to be a gross oversimplification. In my opinion, a better movie would ask "What went wrong?", which would invite us form some ethical framework which we could use to guide our actions. Under what circumstances do we go to war, and what strategies in executing that war are acceptable and unacceptable? Oh, by the way, thanks for the great primer for thought about this!
Yeah, of course war is fun when it’s completely one-sided in your favor and you don’t have to deal with the consequences, that’s why Hollywood struggles to make good anti-war movies, since the Civil war Americans have not experienced the true consequences of war, they don’t know what it’s like to lose, and for their losses to have consequences, and to see their houses and families ruined by an uncaring foreign force, thats war, the U.S form of war is psychopaths getting ordered around by other psychopaths to murder people in a foreign country for the interests of the psychopaths that rule their country.
The confession in the 7th part is so powerful in meaning. Anybody who misses your point are the consequences of war sensationalism. Excellent video, really goes beyond just a conversation about war and really the duality of man's projection and justification of violence.
I clicked on this so fast I didn't even realize how long it was till about halfway through. Lol. Your work is always amazing and thought provoking. Please stay safe and keep up the good work.
I am a veteran of the Iraq war and although I am far removed from that time, place, and experience it still, to this day, defines so much of who I am. It's there in every lesson I teach my students. It's there in every giggle of my kids. And it's there in every sleepless night beside my wife who endured it all from afar. For me, war stories, particularly films are a medium for processing the experience. Some I can read or watch, others I can't. Nothing tugs at the human spirit spirit the way war does. No experience will fill a man with such simultaneous pride and shame, courage and fear. It is indeed, the most human of all endeavors. Always deplorable and heroic, and flawed. So very, very flawed.
This is reason I always believed Kubrick's Path of Glory to be the best understanding of what war is. There is no heroism. Some men make selfish decisons and the others follow it. Mr. Kubrick could have only made Strangelove because he made Paths of glory. In the latter he mocks the war and in the former he dwells deep into the psychology of war. Really gave me a perspective into his genius.
Brilliant! I wanted to be a HERO, to fight for something bigger. However, I’m 70 now and happy that I never had to go to War. I merely helped a few people along my journey.
Incredible video. You shared perspective I never had put in words. Thinking "Ending this war would mean ending all wars". "Human ego (wanting to be alive forever in a hero image)", "Being proud". Individual trying to defend his beliefs, country, group, ideology and religion. What a human spirit.
“In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death... The Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.” - Umberto Eco, Ur-Fascism
@@IAmNumber4000 let me help you understand what this means. Fascism is an ideology that describes the authoritarian, totalitarian, culturally reactionary movements based on national rejuvenation, which reject liberalism and democracy in all forms which occurred in Italy and Germany during the 20s and 30s. Hero worship dates back to Ancient societies, like Maurya, Rome, Greece and Egypt. This is simply a thing that humans do. It’s not exclusive to fascism because it can apply to literally any ideology under the sun. Many of the same things can be applied to the other points, like enemies being weak and strong at the same time. This is literally just basic persuasive rhetoric. Say different things to different people in order to get different results. Nowhere in the points does he even mention the explicit rejection of democracy. Ur fascism is stupid. Use Paxton’s definition instead. Hell, some scholars even say that the word fascism shouldn’t be used at all because it has been used by so many people to describe so many different things over the past century.
I wrote a poem that is very relevant to this topic about a year ago: Mount Everest is a Grave ____ Hold close to heart this ugly truth So as not to lose her That behind the curves and wings Purpose an imposer Gold perfect pure and promising Is weak when put to task So too grand imaginings Reveal themselves a mask Be wary of the hero there Who from the glass stares back Tangled quests and mountain tops So poignantly unpack Careful singing that strange song Else it become too bold May find it's become the teller And you the one who's told
This right here I love this kind of content on RU-vid. This is a very thoughtful and elaborate documentary about the romance of the war movies. As a bachelor of criminal law and as a person who got his degree on researching terrorism and war on terror, and also having a grandfather and a father who is a war veteran, your points are well founded and 100% on point. Keep up the good work and I am so glad I found your channel.
The Soviet "Come and See" should be regarded as a true Anti-War film. No "hero system", "holy war" or surviving "with higher purpose" drive the story. No. It shows a terrorized kid who has his town invaded by a merciless Extermination horror and his..... Ok. Watch it. And a lot more happens... We see how his mind (and face) are transformed before our eyes, and why. VERY convincing. This haunting film is a harrowing experience on its own, it's not for everybody, and much less for both the gung-ho jingoists or the opposite sensitive, emotional flock.
I'm really interested (as a male), how far women in governments could decrease such heroic naratives and therefore increase peace. I think the new "All quiet on the western front" summed it up really good and fullfilled your requirements for a good war movie: Old beta males tell young man some naratives and let them masacre each other while sitting home drinking wine. In the end Paul dies fir absoloutely no greater good.
