It would be an easy choice between the Transition and the Santa Cruz for me, because they're the two that don't have cables and hoses routed through the headset bearings. This insane trend needs to go away, and it will only go away if people stop buying bikes featuring it.
But didnt Orbea put into consideration, that servicing might be a Problem? I can't remember exactly but they did something on the Headset bearing. Maybe someone can give more Info
Absolutely agree, no cables through headset bearings!! Wanted to buy Canyon Spectral ON with the system for wife and kids, but no kids ride shotgun seat possible due to the system, so no bike order. And I own a Heckler SL: Fazua unit up- and downhill very silent, no rattling. Plasticky controller yes, but doing perfectly it's job! Absolutely no complaints with the system!
Hello @bikersedge. Thanks for another great video. I'm interested in the range comparison on these bikes particularly because here in Oz, the Giant represents fantastic value compared to the other makes on offer here. I get your approach with the "apples to apples" range comparison in this video of running them in full boost but I'd really like to know how they compare when they are all set at the same torque output, let's say in the case of these bikes, 50 or even 60nm. As you mention in your commentary on the drive system, the Giant is considerably more powerful and perhaps even too much so in some circumstances, so maybe there would be an inclination to ride it in a lower setting more comparable to the others here, particularly if the ride was intended to maximise possible range rather than just going for a quick blast. Any thoughts on this? And FWIW, in my opinion, your bike reviews are always excellent. Informative, thorough, great format and seemingly totally objective without the BS.
100% agree with what Andrew is saying - I think Giant have got it right with the ability to ride it like a low/mid power eeb to get the range and 'lightweight' performance, and then turn it up to boost with your mates on 'Full Fat' eebs (but you'd want that range extender) or just a quick 'Hour of Power' lap after work etc....
@GLOBc oh for sure. But that same idea applies to all the other bikes in this group too. You can run them on lower power levels and get even more range.
@@bikersedge I accept your point, but let's say I want to go ride with my mate on his Relay and I set the torque on the Giant to match his. Could I ride as far or further or would the range be the same?
Nice video!!! A question about the fazua, did you change the default settings for the power delivery or you left it at stock? You can set the rider power watts for a more natural feeling or to keep motor pushing up to 420 watts of rider power. From personal experience makes a huge difference
I like the handling characteristics of full power ebike, the weight adds tractions and smooth things out. And then ride my regular bike if I want a light playful bike. To me full power ebike for rest days and big explorations. And then regular bike for everything else.
Did the battery cover fly off on the drop on that big feature you mentioned when riding the Relay? Looked like something flew off as you landed! I'm a current '21 Orbea Rise M10 owner..Looking t change /uograde..If the Relay has no charging port, how can a range extemder be added/connected? IS one in the works ? Will there be a way to connect it...? Seems like the Santa Cruz may be the sounder bet...
Yeah it flew off. Some ding dong (me) didn’t install it correctly. That’s a good point about the range extender. I’ve heard there’s one in the works. Not sure how that will work when/if it is released.
Orbea Rise is on sale right now with 20% off from the dealer and some bike shops are giving an extra 5-10% off. I bought one a week ago at 25% off from the LBS. Great bike although I'm sure they all are.
Also snagged one with the sale. The aluminum ones have a larger 540wh battery by default. You can get a carbon one with the larger internal battery, too. I went alloy to save a boat load of money. The H30 spec on sale is also amazing value IMHO vs most other eMTBs. Haven't drained the internal battery yet. Didn't yet buy the range extender yet... but will likely pick one up for longer adventure rides.
Been watching lots of SL eMTB reviews lately and tested the Levo SL, Fuel ExE as well as the Trance X whatever. Ended up going for the Trance as it seemed to be the best fit for my needs. I like playful technical trails with drops and jumps the most. The range is actually ok as long as you tune it like a lightweight bike.I never use more than 50Nm of torque and still can keep up with my full powered bike friends. But I do need to put more effort into the climbs. The Trance cost me half of what a Relay or Heckler would cost, which is significant. The only other close option was the Trek Fuel. I found the Fuel easier to ride and the TQ motor is brilliant, but the suspension and agility is definitely better on the Trance. I did also install a 160mm air shaft at the front and added a larger volume spacer at the back which adds confidence to the ride.
tried the specialized kenevo sl and the levo sl and full power levo on steep tight trails in nz, really prefered the sl levo was amazingly agile and lively also tried the orbea rise, just wished the orbea had alittle more travel and slacker head angle, would be amazing.
Great video 👍 Soooooo torn between the Heckler SL and the Simplon Rapcon Pmax TQ atm. But then Forestal might be brewing up some new stuff as well. And Rotwild... Choices, choices... The only sure thing is I'm going to be a SL rider as well since I can't afford food after buying either 🤣
Thanks for the great video! I think comparing the Heckler SL to a standard Relay is a tough one. If you were to throw a 27.5 on the rear and maybe a coil shock you would have an incredibly supple ride with a bike that wants to jump out of the park. Thankfully Transition sells this config as the PNW edition. IMO this is the best version of the bike.
This is the BEST mountain bike review I have ever watched. Thank you for all of the work you guys put into this. I was curious what your guys feelings are on the Trek Fuel Exe.
Maybe price isn't as relevant in this segment but mentioning the prices of each would be helpful. I looked at the writeup and the individual bike reviews and only 1, the Heckler, has prices listed. This is an easy metric to add and would really help people compare bikes.
We don’t really talk about specific builds or compare builds/components. Also these range from entry level builds to custom, high-end builds. Doesn’t make a ton of sense to compare prices.
I own the Relay PNW and was able to dial in the ride feel of the FAZUA motor with the free FAZUA desktop app. You can adjust to a more natural assist (similar to EP8 in trail mode) and it is perfect for me. Unfortunately, you can’t adjust on the mobile app, but to connect to computer, you don’t need any fancy devices (I’m talking to you Shimano).
I’m looking at picking up the Heckler SL. How’d you adjust the setting via the desktop app to achieve the more natural feel? Thanks in advance for any help!
Demod the Santa Cruz Heckler SL & Transition Relay side by side and was surprised the Heckler SL handled the chunk better than the Relay, riding a Patrol now I kept saying now way and would ride sections over again back to back to make sure. Were in Moab now, what trails are those you were riding in the video, would love to hit them on the way to Hurricane. Thanks
I'm hoping they release one with their new motor thats in the levo sl and a mullet. Would be the goat. Still think think the relay PNW is the best sl at the moment
At first, it seemed like it was a little shaky. All of the bikes that we’ve had with fazua Harv been great so far. I think they may have sorted things out.
It would help if you analyzed the component choices for each bike in the low to middle offerings from each manufacturer. Where are the sweet values for the money? Most people can only dream of the top spec bikes. Do the relative comparisons remain the same when comparing the low end offerings of each bike?
this is an important point. I think the trance torque setting should have been dropped to more closely match lower power of others for better range comparison?
Kind of. But then it might not be as solid as it is on the climbs. Made the most sense to test the bikes stock, as intended and designed. The Trance technically uses less torque per assistance level. Even in the lower modes the range is still compromised.
I just bought the Trance and the interesting thing is that in the Ride Control App the default max torque is actually set at 85nm in every assistance level. I saw they discovered this in another video and verified it to be true on my new bike. @@bikersedge
Great review guys…none of these bikes are available in my area so if I bought one, it’d have to be sight unseen. We do have TREK & Specialized tho...& brands sold at REI. There used to be GIANT & Santa Cruz, but haven’t seen thos brands post covid 😒
Cool video and test! One thing for us europeans audience: Could it be possible that you guys blend in the infos also in metric and kilogramm units? That would be awesome!
@@bikersedge I unlocked my Rise and rarely throw it into full power because of how fast it drains the battery. I only can get 1700’ on full boost full power, which is right in line with the Giant.
Throw the Trek Fuel Exe 2023 into the mix and it will beat the Orbea Rise for best natural/trail/all-mountain bike. Hands down! Ride quality, noise level, geometry flip, motor tuning, local dealer support…
@@bikersedge agreed if your rides are regularly longer than 40km and over a 1000 meters of climbing it is going to run out of juice its horses for course I suppose
I just recently was visiting Spokane & got a chance to rent/ride carbon relay from the hub went to the infamous Beacon Hill riding park. Having been a long time dirt bike rider moto,desert, trials since 70’s & love riding mtb often I have had serious issues with e-bikes period & calling me a hater would be an understatement well no longer. Not having the chance to ride as many as you do I couldn’t disagree with you more about the relay . In short I thought the switch is weak but manageable now let’s talk about performance it’s flat out magic in river/blue mode felt completely natural and allows you to carry momentum much easier through turns when climbing. Amazing confidence builder & overall solid handling with smooth suspension going downhill fast. Needless to say I can’t wait to demo these other recommendations so I get the right one for me because if the relay is second tier in your opinion I can only imagine how much better they are .
Great comparisons. Was about to start saving up for the Heckler SL S build but the Specialized Kenevo SL Comp was 2K less with the current sale they have going so I jumped on it. Coming off the gen 3 Levo I have to say that I think I'm a mid powered convert. There's just no need for 700 watts if all you're looking to do I 1.5-2 hr rides.
It’s not as weak as you would think given how light the bike is. I spent the summer on the new Levo and while it’s nice to have the power, the extra weight makes for a tank like feel on the descents. The kenevo sl on the other hand if plows but also like to leave the ground without much effort. I think the next gen will probably end up with a 60ish Nm motor
Have a 2023 Rise M10, switched the Fox stuff to Lyrik ultimate fork bumped to 160 mm and ultimate rear shock. Totally changes the Rise to more of a All Mtn bike. The Rockshox suspension has great mid support and rides very plush compared to Fox set up.
Great video, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Specialized Turbo Levo SL compared to these bikes. Where do you think it would line up in the group of bikes?
A slight aside here, a great example of a city/area adding amazing trails and benefiting with an economic boost. SLC UT locals normally drive to St. George, now we have a closer option. Riding in Full Boost is great for a power hour, but it's overkill as an Orbea Rise aluminum model in Trail has tons of range, even at elevation gain. Bikers Edge and other shops know how to set up these eebs these days, that is a key factor when spending the big bucks.
@@bikersedge I like the Giant because I could put to high power on my short rides when I’m time poor or lower the power put on range extender and do a longer ride on the weekend,does that sound like I’m on the right track with this idea?
Owned , Levo, Heckler 8, Rise, Fuel EXE, and now Heckler SL. Of all of them Heckler SL is perfect for my needs. Decending capabilities are off the chart. Integration is on par. Expect a Bullit SL (E-Nomad) next. This is the future of eMTB'S. SC knocked it out of the park.
Another great video! Thanks for taking the time and money to make these informative videos. Also realizing just how spoiled I am to have a 5000 foot climb right out my door and multiple 3-5000 foot loops available to me in 30 minute drives. Spoiled for sure and awesome to have ebikes like these for taking full advantage of them!
i personally find it annoying how most reviewers try to find how "each bike has its different characteristics" and you've to read between the lines on the "but really we think this one is the best for most". Perhaps to ensure you keep getting test bikes, but still, its annoying. Maybe all reviewer should force themselves to pick 1 bike each time lol. Appreciate that you've given your opinion on full vs light ebike though, that felt genuine. My take away from this one review: - full power better overall because they last and they've got the power - light ebike have some advantages in handling, sometimes, you might prefer that if you're ok with the power/range trade-off - heckler sl best light ebike - heckler and relay for enduro-ish, the rest for trail-stuff - giant way more power, but less range - other ebikes still okay
The reason reviewed don’t flat out say “this bike is the best” is because it varies on priorities, riding style, riding groups, terrain, trails, and preferences. What’s best for me isn’t best for you. That’s why we talk about the ride characteristics so you can decide which is best for you. We buy the vast majority of all of our review bikes. So we certainly aren’t trying to tip toe around a weird relationship with manufacturers.
Not an option for most people but for me having both a full fat emtb and an SL emtb is the best scenario. Most guys I know own two bikes so why not have to emtbs? I currently do not own a non assisted mtb. I ride 80% of the time a Kenevo SL. I love the way it handles and the way jumps. I ride 20% of the time a YT Decoy with a 720wh battery for longer expedition style rides. Best of both worlds depending on how I feel and what I want to ride.
Most of these bikes have a thumb switch allowing you to only use power when you need. For a very average rider like me, the battery will never run out. I have a power pack but have never needed it. Weight is the biggest factor for me.
Most of my ride crew have some sort of e-bike now and they really prefer to ride them over their normal pedal bikes. Unfortunately, I just don't feel I can justify the cost of a bike that I can't ride everywhere. So I'm still all human power. Hoping someday the stigma will lighten up and more trails will open and become legal with these bikes.
Actually, by getting deeper into the travel when bunny hopping, you are also getting further into that compression damping, which creates a platform to push against and spring from the rebound.
The Fuel EXe is another great lightweight contender, I picked one up in June and have been absolutely loving it. Probably would've gone with the Heckler SL if it had come out sooner though, since I also have a Bronson. Though, regarding your notes on the Fazua - the TQ HPR50 in the Trek has markedly better power delivery and torque sensitivity, matching rider effort very seamlessly with super natural power delivery. Even though it's not quite as powerful, it's the main reason I didn't go with the Relay. The Trek is a descender too, even with only 140mm. I've taken it on some pretty gnarly single/double black tech trails, flow trails, jump lines, and have had no complaints the whole time.
the reason I decided against the fuel exe is because it gets sketchy on the rough stuff on descents since it has short travel suspension. great quiet motor, but slightly on the weaker side. if it had 60nm it would be the perfect power.
hardtails/DJ/bmx bikes are the easiest to bunny hop, because they have no rear suspension. lock out the shock on any of these bikes and they will bunny hop pretty easily.
I don’t have any way to back this up other than personal experience, but I have an easier time bunnyhopping bikes with rear suspension. It’s easier to get the front end up relative to the back end. Hardtails might be able to get higher, buts it’s tougher to get the bunnyhop initiated.
I mean the e-bike with the best range is almost always going to come down to battery capacity. Some of the least expensive options that we have ridden and reviewed will be on our "value ebike showdown" on the ebike channel.
I haven’t demo’d any of them…yet. But I did check them out in the BE showroom on a recent I-15 road trip! I‘ve been rooting for the Relay because Transition & my local Transition dealer have AMAZING customer service, & I like the idea of the removable battery. But, I’m concerned how the plastic flap and shim will hold up after 100 hours of hard riding-I don’t see it aging well. The Heckler SL nails just about everything I’m looking for. I’m surprised the Heckler is more composed on desents, given Transition’s DNA.
Thanks for the great video! I am very intrigued about the Heckler sl, I spoke to my local Santa dealer and they said the only gripe they have is with proper tires you are hitting full power territory. How did you find the weight/handling on this compared to the regular Heckler!?
This was our second lightest bike in the test. Most full power bikes are low 50s and up. Even with proper tires you’re probably barely at 43-45 on the SL. Still significantly lighter than the regular heckler.
Hi there was just wondering if you set the gaint to 60n so it's the same as the rest of the bikes will it go as far ? Just if you did that to see them all at the same power . Thanks Stephen
Awesome review!! I'm looking into either the Orbea Wild, Transition Relay or Heckler SL. So this really answered some of my main questions like full e-bike or sl bike and heckler sl or relay! Would be nice to see what you think about the different builds for the heckler sl.
Glad you liked it. Personally I don't think build matters all that much. Most of what determines how your bike rides is the suspension kinematics, geometry and drivesystem. Buy the build that best fits your budget.
I normally don't share that. I like to lay out the info about how each bike rides and where it's strongest and then let you decide which one best aligns with your priorities.
Hey thanks. Ebikes are a bit different. They’re all pretty damn fast on fire roads. At that point it comes down to motor output more than anything. Technical climbing sets them apart a bit and that’s why we talked about traction and control on the climbs.
Exactly what I was expecting (minus the Giant, I never really think about Giant anymore). As far as a bike for my wife who's I'm going to say (mid life 😉 you're welcome deer) the bike that would feel light weight enough for her to feel comfortable to maneuver is the Orbea Rise. All she's looking for is some assistance climbing so it doesn't aggravate her bulged disk from 20+ years ago. Would you say that's a safe assessment? We are here in the PNW but she's not getting "sendy" anymore. Thanks guy's, you always give the best reviews (along with Freehub). Cheers!!!
Great comparisons. I only have a few rides on the heckler SL but I’m really liking it. I rode the Relay in the mullet 170/170 form and thought it rode amazing but the beer can head tube and the full power look of the bike just didn’t work for me. Notably not on here is the new Levo SL. I have tons of rides on that bike and it’s really good as well. Range is definitely limited but it does have extenders. It’s on the better end of the FSR suspension kinematics as well. The integration is top notch and the ride feel is very natural. Plus I love that it has the 29er chainstay flip chip. For me the heckler can go way deeper on hits and rides more like an all mountain bike. Plus it looks so good…
@@jeffj5039 The Levo SL is super fun. The short rear end and the light weight make it a really solid trail bike. It’s also incredibly adjustable. But even at 25% sag with the big volume reducer in the rear I have issues bottoming out, and I never have as much traction as I would like. The heckler SL I’m still tweaking but at 29% sag I have yet to reach the last 5 mile of travel even after overshooting a big jump to flat really hard, and the traction of the top is more supple.
@@mikes.8305 sounds like a Heckler SL setup at 160/170 would compliment the Levo SL2 nicely, or maybe that’s just me trying to justify owning both bikes haha
That was a crazy fun video to watch! damn I would take any of these. They all look good. I was wondering do you know any advantage or disadvantage for a 27.5 rear wheel on an ebike? Does the smaller wheel make it easier on the battery and motor at all?
I think the smaller wheel helps in a couple of ways. Most e-bikes have a longer chain stay than their pedal bike counterparts. A 27.5 wheel allows for a more “normal” length when compared to pedal bikes. It also is noticeably quicker to spin up.
I'm 160 lbs, 71 years old on an Elite 3. With my saddle and One Up bars, flat pedals, the medium is 45.6 pounds. Today was a typical ride in Utah above 7000' 21.33 miles, 2540 feet of climb, 2:28 riding time. I was at 30-40Nm and 100%-150% support and low (2 to 3) on launch. I ended with 27% battery left. When I ride with my wife, I have the support at zero. In that case, or with power off, I feel no discernable resistance to pedaling.I rarely us 85Nm, but it's nice to have to outrun thunderstorms coming over the Wasatch!
The giant is probably the cheapest in this group. Although Orbea offers the Rise in aluminum at some really reasonable price points. I’d say either of those two will be best value.
It depends on which country you live in. Here in New Zealand the Giant Elite 2 is by far the best value SL eMTB, next comes the Trek Fuel 9.7, then the Fuel 9.8 XT build, after that the Levo SL and Orbea Rise, then come cars, boats and months of luxury holidays around the globe… and after that Santa Cruz and Transition.
Genuine question here. I am considering getting a light weight eMTB. However, on a normal ride on a standard bike, I can climb around 1000m in 2 hours. I only ride for the downhill, so a typical ride is just ups and downs. Would this kind of ebike help at all? The range on these won't do much more than I currently ride. My main reason for getting one would be to get more laps in.
You're not going to be able to get more laps of those 1000m laps in , but you'd drastically reduce the time it takes. A full power eBike might be the move for you if your climbs are that big.
@@bikersedge Sorry. I probably worded it really badly. My total climbing would be 1000m for the ride. I think one climb is about 200m. But I totally get what you suggested with the full power bikes
Oh gotcha. Yeah you won’t be getting much more than 1000 out of the bike in full boost. Obviously the lower power modes will extend that range a bit. The beauty to this is you’d be able to do that 2 hour ride in 1 hour. When I’m short on time I almost always grab the ebike.
great video. love the format of comparing and contrasting. I got it down to either the heckler sl and specialized levo SL. how do these compare and contrast. I see that most reviews don't pick the levo sl when the heckler sl and transition relay are in the lightweight shootout. can you give your opinion on why pick the heckler sl or relay over the 2023 levo SL?
Seems the Fazua ride 60 on the Heckler SL is similar to my old 2019 Levo in terms of range as it comes with 500w battery. Clearly it's got more power but as for range they seem to be similar? I've heard that boost is similar to trail on the full power and trail the same as eco. Is this correct?
The point about time being a limiting factor is a good one. I usually only have about 90 mins to ride, and an ebike is going to let me cover a lot more ground in that time. Plus many parts of the world don't even have 5k ft worth of climbs so range wouldn't always be a deciding factor.
Really think you guys should have thrown the Turbo Levo SL in there as well, since they just introduced a new model and Specialized basically started this segment, hence the SL is still the benchmark for which others should be judged against IMHO.
That didn't take long. Ha. We don't carry specialized at the shop. Won't be able to include it. I'd argue the benchmark should be the gold standard or best in category rather than first to market.
@@bikersedge Haha true that I am a spec fanboi lol (but not a diehard). I am selfishly tickled because I'm in the market for a new light e-bike to complement my Tlevo and want to see the SL compared to the latest and greatest. Great vid nonetheless!!
@@andrewkhodyupdated Levo SL came out before heckler SL or giant. Plus it took slightly less than 3 years for the second version to come out, reasonable renewal cycle I would say!
