@@Emtbwebb I don't know which "shops" you visit. But prices have actually dropped drastically over the past 2 years. The 2023 Haibike AllMtn 10 that I ride came on the market at £6,400. Now you can get one for £4,500. That's a £1,900 discount! There are many other examples of such heavily discounted bikes if you look around.
On my Carrera E Subway I've got 50km with 500m of climbing from a 420w battery and I'm 100kg. The subway I guess is more of a trekking bike and it's very cheap (under a grand) and reasonably light for an ebike. Got me back into cycling in a big way. Great fun.
Since I got the 720Wh AllMtn last year, range anxiety is now a distant memory. I actually don't really know how far the bike can run until empty to be honest since I have never managed to completely deplete the battery on all the rides I have done so far. I routinely ride an average of 64 miles and get back home with around 3 bars (approx 30%) battery. I recently fitted the MRS 360Wh Range Extender since I'm getting tired a lot quicker now. I plan to use EXPW mode more often now without worrying about range. The longest trip I've ever had since fitting the Range Extender is 81 miles. I still got back home with 1 bar of battery left (and a depleted Range Extender), albeit with drastically reduced assist at that point (Yamaha PW-X3 is annoying that way).
I have a full power Trek hardtail with a 625 wh battery. I just carry a spare in my trunk bag. Flat out on turbo on rough terrain I can do 60 miles. On mixed terrain and mixed power modes easily exceed 100 miles.
I've got the specalized turbo tero 3.0 a 50nm hardtail and I love the thing I've done more riding since getting it than I've ever done and gone places I would never normally ride
For all the talk of the high purchase price, consider the trade offs: Will you use your bike more? What are the health benefits of riding more, such as reduced long term health care costs. Instead of driving to the pub, post office, or grocery store, can I ride? What does that save me in fuel? I've reduced my annual fuel use by 7500 miles a year which = $1800. I also lowered my A1C blood sugar, lowered my cholesterol, and lowered my blood pressure. I was able to get off some medications and save $720 a year. By buying my $6600 bike 4 years ago I am now saving $2500 a year. I'm up $ after 4 years, even with maintenance and upgrades.
Another factor- in America a medical device is tax deductible. People have done it for swimming pools. Have your doctor write a letter of recommendation for you to get an e-bike. Now that $10k beauty can come off your taxes.
Great video as always, amazing scenery and a lovely bike! I feel like watching GMBN and EMBN these days is like watching Top Gear. Every video I watch recently, showing a gorgeous new bike that I think to myself, “wow, this could be next bike” turns out to be a £9-10k bike. Are we to just accept and believe that emtb’s now cost this much? My Trek Rail was £5k 3 years ago, buying a similar bike now is more like £6k and anything like a new light emtb seems to cost well above £6-7k it’s crazy! For now, I’ll carry on enjoying my Trek Rail and maybe in a couple more years, I’ll be able to get hold of a newer and lighter emtb, because as much as I love my bike, it’s so heavy that I am unable to enjoy some trails near me due to needing to lift the bike in a few places and I struggle to lift it 😅
Thanks for the video, gives a good idea of how the mid-power bikes perform on typical UK conditions and trails. I guess those faster rolling tyres help the range quite a bit.
Thanks, the bike could definateley go further if you were frugal with the modes but i dont think thats how the majority of us ride. Tyres certainly helped but quicker rolling was cancelled out by sometime wheel spinning in the mud.
With my dodgy knees and me approaching 60, I'm afraid it's always going to be full power EMTBs for me now. I even recently sold my analogue Transition Spire as I couldn't ride it very far any more. Right now I ride a Haibike AllMtn 10 with a 720Wh and a 360Wh Range Extender. I routinely cover around 60 miles (round trip) with around 65% in HIGH and 35% in EXPW.
Same here i got a Trek Rail. I think back to 2016 and i could ride up to 85 miles a day on my giant XTC. Now i am lucky if i can do 8 miles on a analogue bike lol
There’s zero reason to get a lightweight E bike. Most people will ride better going downhill with the heavier bike. You don’t notice the weight when you ride it. Plus you have all the power, which is why you’re buying Eva in the first place. So bro, I salute you for not buying a lightweight E bike because they’re nonsense.
@@EMTB17This the way i think why would i get a lightweight E bike when i could get a XC normal bike that would be so fast under normal riding, on my normal bikes the carbon XC would be for speed and better on and off roads around the country side. But never could i bash down the trails like i do on my full sust which is heavier. So when i got a E bike i got the heavier full power Trek Rail XT for that reason to go uphill on it and take other routes. Here in North Devon once i am out my house it is only flat on this old railway line that is a footpath cycle track. The roads around here are a nightmare. If in the Future they stay the same power and lose afew KG that would be ok if it handles any better.
I found in my conditions this rule of thumb effective for calculating range: 10 feet of elevation gain per watt hour of battery. My 500 watt hour gen 2 Bosch gets me 5000 feet of climbing and despite all the talk of efficiency, the new Fuel Exe with the TQ 360 watt hour battery gets me about 3600 feet of climbing. With a decent topo map I never get range anxiety because I let the elevation gain over the route determine how far I can go.
This looks good for trips such as Scotland Munro bagging where you have long run ins on reasonable terrain and operating in eco for much of the time is acceptable. It’s light enough to push when needed. Does it have a walk mode? If you used the range extender and perhaps took one more battery pack you could most likely run over a weekend taking some lightweight camping gear or using a bothy. For those sort of trips you wouldn’t need a huge amount of travel. So definitely worth looking out. Very good video particularly as the test terrain was pretty tough and you did have to draw on turbo.
Well I have a commencal Méta tr power with Bosch cx Gen 4 motor. I did 51km and 1700m of climb and left 24% of battery. Here were I leave is steep and techie. Mud is a battery drainer for sure...
I finished a 110km ride with +3500m of climbing on one (700wh) battery with my 25kg turbo levo, using 15/25 assist tuned Eco mode. I turned it off on the flat and DH sections. That is a big ride for an E-Bike..
My lightweight Trek Exe is great and as i have reasonable fitness anyway, then it gives me more than enough assistance to achieve longer and more difficult rides without it being too heavy
It depends on the trails you are going to ride most often and how fit yo are. If they are mostly steep climbs all the time, you may be missing out on the power assist that will make assents more fun.
Well i guess it how people ride as to the range, I have a 2023 Levo Sl I have just done a ride of 80km with 2000m on climbing and used 62% of (320Wh) battery. it was rough tracks and single track, and surface was solid so wasnt ploughing through mud and clag. the Levo has micro adjust so i will just use it in 10-30% most of the time and as there is no drag with the motor, if its flat i just turn it off, so i really use the motor like a set of extra gears. it suits my type of riding perfectly,
I have a Trek Fuel EXe and I agree with those figures you have as I can get similar but im fairly light at 80Kgs, for heavier riders I would expect that to be a lot lower.
I just want to know how long the battery lasts riding on full turbo? I get 15 to 20 miles; and just under 2000 feet elevation; in just under 1 - 1/2 hour; ON FULL TURBO; on my Gen 3 - 41 pound - Turbo Levo SL. Now that's a real-life test.🤙
HI Nice video! My approach to having a more "zone 2 happy smile mile" day and still trying do be reasonable with the assitance of the bike, I get those numbers too. I weigh about the same with all my gear and stuff I take with me. I ride an alloy NOX Hybrid 7.1 Enduro Large 180mm fr/re (FOX 38, FOX DHX Coil 600, Shimano SLX, 720 Wh, MAXXIS Assegai up front, on the rear from the manufacturer still got the Conti Argotal, H1900 DTSwiss, 203mm rotors,) weighing about 26 kg, staying at "eco" (55 Nm) on the flats but rarely need more than "tour" 70 Nm on the uphill trails, or when it is windy and such. (The BMZ RS can go up to 112Nm in Turbo, and the MTB mode gives me 85Nm) As an example: I needed 70% on a 54 km/1050 Hm trip (500Wh), and today used 50% on a bikepark day with 35 km/650 Hm =360Wh. For me it is important to have the extra Power if it gets really steep. Woudn't like to be on the limit of the motor the whole time. Fullpower ebike all the way.
That is seriously impressive. Great video and thanks for reviewing this bike for us. I too live in Somerset and have done some of those routes. Little tip, lock the front forks when climbing, it will make it way easier. Many who shun ebikes thinking they would make a ride too easy, need to try one. They make hill climbing almost a pleasure. Still hard work but great fun.
Just demoed the 150 top spec version of this this very morning. Only had 45 minutes and was told not to rinse the battery. Still not sure what I think. Coming from a hardtail. Liked Auto mode which seemed to respond well to enthusiastic pedalling. Weird to be worrying about cornering speed going uphill!. Not so easy to get the front wheel up as the Heckler SL I demoed straight after. There were some 140s there too but in our rooty sodden woods I'm glad I didn't take one out as the tyres would have been rubbish on that. Managed one off on the 150 on a slow techy rooty section. Think you need a day, maybe a week to know if it is for you. Need longer to set things up to show its full potential. Lotta dough on something I'm not sure about.
I guess it depends on the profile selected and use of modes. Profile 2 is pretty hungry but profile 1 is more economical. You can easily adjust how the motor reacts through an app. I always get at least 35 miles before it flashes red which denotes 20% battery left.
I ride an Orbea Rise H20. 540 Whr battery. 60 nm torque. Yesterday, I rode in Cornwall, UK 57 kms (35 miles) with 1,060 m (3,440 ft) of climbing mixing all modes and still had 20% battery left. They're impressive bikes for single track, epic rides.
I demo'd a rise on friday with the 540 wh battery and did 22 miles and just over 2000ft of climbing and was out for 2 and a half hours, battery was flashing red, I was hoping for more range ?
I guess it depends on the profile selected and use of modes. Profile 2 is pretty hungry but profile 1 is more economical. You can easily adjust how the motor reacts through an app. I always get at least 35 miles before it flashes red which denotes 20% battery left.
I'm currently looking at my first EMTB and have been leaning towards an Orbea Rise with 540wh battery and got to have a demo on one last week in uk wet conditions, I managed 22 miles and just over 2000 ft elevation in around 2-2 1/2 hours and the battery was flashing red which surprised me as i was expecting more range, i was using trail and turbo so maybe it was the muddy conditions? still loved the bike and how it rode like a regular MTB but with assistance
Enjoyed the vid rich but i just don't see the point in these range tests with the range extender on, this isnt the first ive seen on this bike. The bike was designed to be lightweight with a lowered power and small/mid sized battery. Putting the Range ext on adds an about 1.6kg and you are back to a Full fat ebike style 650Wh battery. I did a 50mile elan valley ride on a 25kg Scott ransom e-ride with a bosch 625wh battery (mostly ECO and Tour+) and im a fat 55yr old. I could have done 100miles if i had taken the spare battery with me.
The specs of many of the mid-power EMTBs that are currently being produced aren't too dissimilar to the 2019 Focus Jam2 that I purchased last year as my first e-bike. (70NM 378WH in the frame and the same again with a range extender, approx 21kg) The biggest difference is the price! Since I am coping fine with my jam2, when riding with riders on full power bikes, the mid power bikes are certainly interesting, but given the price I will be sticking with my Jam2 until the e8000 motor expires. Longest ride so far - 50 miles
exactly! there's still nothing really new on this market. hovewer, jam2 felt really unwieldy with 2nd battery.. and those motors tend to die unexpectedly..
If only 160f / 150r. Reasonable range but we ride 50km and 1100m on gnarly trails on regular bikes every weekend so e-bikes definitely still have room for improvement.
I couldn't drain my Levo XL if someone paid me. I only use power when I need. Prob get 6-8 hrs out of a charge, even without using the booster which adds 50% or so. Not an issue for us older gents.
Thanks, mate, for letting us know the reason to buy or not ❤ I am currently thinking about this e-lyte 140 😀 but that is it, may if someone buys it for me please 😀 I will give feedback
I think the the question is when are they lettings the reigns go on the full power bikes ? There holding back some lighter but still long range they can do it and not compromise the strength.
A couple of days ago I did an equivalent XC type-ride on my Kenevo SL (35nm version & range extender - so 480w of battery) up here in the Scottish Borders. Very windy & muddy. Running Michelin Wild Enduro’s as I normally use the bike for enduro type riding. Did 65km & 1700m.
Riding an 75 nm Bosch cx second gen and I won't buy an ebike with less power. My weight is around 85 kg. My battery is just 400 wh but it's a road bike therfore I had only once an empty battery. ☮️
Correct i should have clarified sorry thats 16.4kg in a medium, no range extender (not sure about pedals but id have thought without) Mine that i rode here has different wheels, saddle and pedals
I am wondering what is the real weight of the bike with the range extender used in the video? Manufacturers advertise all light bike with the smallest batteries, carbon all the way and xc like tyres, the rage with the extender and they generous forget the add the weight of the extender, a normal tyre, a non carbon wheelset ect...
I don’t think they should even say a range when referring to an ebike! Done various long rides and the results are always different, never run out of juice completely but I’ve done 47km and still had 20% on the battery did 40km the other day and it was down to around 13%. My bike isn’t remotely lite probably 25kg using Bosch performance CX with a 750wh battery. I had an SL before, great bike but didn’t fit my needs and riding a full fat after the SL was comparable to riding a naturally aspirated to an ebike, night and day! Full fat all the way for me, you can always change modes to get beasting or stretch out the possible range you can’t do that if you don’t have watt hours or power to play with!
In this "Test" you ride with 650Wh, right!? You have to test it only with the 400Wh internal Battery, for my Opinion. Last Year i ride the Kenevo SL, this Year the Kenevo SL 2, with 320Wh. Enough! My longest Ride: 110 km, in 6 Hours. Normal: 80 km, in 4,5 Hours.
While I appreciate the low weight, I can do the same as this one with my full power 625wh and 85nm motor. I just hope that Buenos sch will produce this nice extender for my non smart bosch system 😢😢😢😢
I am not impressed - quite disappointed actually. I did about 55km and about 1,250m climbing with a Canyon Neuron:ON 8.0 L (it weighs about 25kg) 84kg, 504 Wh battery (no extender), Eco with a little of Trail, no Turbo at all. I am sorry to say this, but the price of the bike you tested is ridiculous 13.000 €(!!) - I do want an ebike not a car. The cost-benefit ratio is completely out of kilter.
Lightweight e-Bikes are in one way fantastic, they are light! And if you are one 100 % in good health it’s the way to go. Now I’m 63 and because of heart issues I should not exceed a heart rate of 135 bpm. With light emtbs there comes a higher cadence to really get the power out of the bike and this bringing the heart rate significantly up and beyond my max. So I believe I’m stuck with the heavy weight full emtbs although a reduced weight of a bike would be generally a very good thing. Now the question back to you, is this analysis of having watched a lot of reviews on light emtbs correct? Maybe a fact about myself could help too. My fitness is not bad, my body weight is normal for my seize of 175 cm.
The long distance fairy tale... I find it worrying how the belief is reinforced that light eMTBs can cover significantly more distance with much less battery. There is no technical basis for this. Think logically... Full power bike 700-1000Wh Weight bike 28Kg + rider 80Kg = 108Kg Eco Mode 50% Light eMTB 250-400Wh Weight bike approx. 20Kg + rider 80Kg = 100Kg Eco Mode 50% Half the battery but the same power consumption with almost identical weight. Just less peak power and support. the joke is that the full power motor even needs less power under load. There are also measurement comparisons from magazines, with the result that under comparable conditions almost all engines, from Bosch SX to Brose to TQ120, consume a similar amount. In one test it was around 300Wh on the uphill route for all bikes. And that's logical because that's how e-motors work. TheLight eMTB definitely has advantages in agility, but it also has a very poor weight to power to money ratio. If you don't need the agility because you drive "normally", you don't need an extra expensive, overhyped light emtb.
This was a real world test, we're only reporting our findings. Rich is quite fit so that would have played part in the distance he was able to cover. In terms of weight 8kg on a non-assisted bike is a huge difference so It would be safe to say that it played a big part in the distance Rich was able to cover.
@@embn As I said, there is no technical or physical basis for this. The relationships don't fit, and the significance of the lower weight is significantly overestimated. 8kg is a lot in relation to a bicycle, but not much in relation to the weight of the entire system and the bigger Battery capacity of typical full power bikes. And the entire weight determines the energy required. However, air resistance and rolling resistance are often more important here. You can also simply do the math to confirm this. A real world test is only really meaningful if the real electrical parameters are also recorded and evaluated. Unfortunately, this is not often done. For example, you can refer to the Velomotion video with the 3 M1 bikes. There, consumption in wh was recorded at the same time. And all 3 bikes were very close together. The TQ120 too. You have to differentiate between real power consumption with identical support and not compare it with very different support. At max support, the full power can of course consume more because there is more power at the top. But with the same support setting, which is a fair comparison, things look different. For example, I ( 80Kg ) can ride 170km at 1600m elevation with my 30kg Spitzing without any problems if I use eco. And thanks to the high torque and short high peak power seconds am faster in many places than a Fazua 60 or Bosch SX at higher support Level. Even a Bosch CX 750Wh can easily manage 130km with 1000m of elevation in mixed mode. We've ridden it all here. Do the test. A light eMTB against a high power eMTB. Similar rider, same percentage of support. Same gear used. Ride together..... and measure the power consumption. The two bikes will deliver very similar values, and the light eMTB will run out first because its battery is massively smaller
Nope it was a large and felt fine. I've a quite upright and over the front riding style on trail/xc style bikes when seated. The XL is too long for me plus when standing up feels spot on and nice and central so can move around the bike easy.
You must be sponsored by whyte or have endorsements....that bike is £10k+.....you should be boycotting whyte and saying how ridiculously over priced they are!!!
I’d be surprised if they got paid to make this and didn’t disclose it. Not worth the trouble if they got caught. Cut whyte some slack also. I definitely agree 10k is absurd to spend on a bike. But I’m sure they have pretty low volumes and they have top spec components so they definitely can’t make it too cheap. Boycott the bigger brands like specialized. £13k for their top of the range, and they have bigger volumes.
I doubt they will sell many of these without some heavy discounting. More likely they are trying to make themselves look more “boutique” by hiking the price.
I’d love one of these, but if we keep buying them at these prices the prices will only go up. Stick two fingers up at them and wait for the cost to drop with all the unsold stock. We, the people, are being mugged by everyone and its time to make a stand.
Its only half a kg heavier than a trek fuel ex 7 gen 6, what's happening to modern mountain bikes? it won't be long before ebikes will be lighter than normal mountain bikes.
This should have been done WITHOUT the range extender. Factor in the price of the bike and the extender makes this very out of reach to afford for most.
51km on 16.4kg e-bike ?? It's a joke. I can do 100km on my 2007 freeride machine. All day long. And that's the difference. You can do yor ride much quicker on ebike but range wise lightwight ebikes are useless.
It must be great to get a 13’000 Euro Bike for free for advertising / *test-riding* and then let it fall @2:54 for no reason and scratch the Carbon Bike and components like a total moron. Also, the range extender adds another 2kg and the 16.4kg is *only* for the medium size.
Is this supposed to be impressive? 50k x 1400 is easily achievable by anyone with a little bit of training on an acoustic bike. I can do more with my full power ebike, with the same battery capacity, on much steeper gradient, for half the price. I'm sorry but this is a badly disguised AD that should be marked as such
£10.995 for a ebike that can't even do an EPIC mtb ride, think I'll stick to my HT non emtb and do proper "EPIC" mtb rides under my own steam thank you very much. The amount of money some people will spend just to make a ride easier is baffling, mtbers have got very lazy.
It is not a question of lazy, I work 60 to 80 hour weeks and have very little time to train and do a lot of physical work. However an ebike lets me still enjoy some elevation after a long day at work. However I think 6k is already mindblowing for an ebike but 12k is just ridiculous. Although I think this concept of lightweight ebike is really appealing since I mostly ride in eco or tour because I still like to get a workout done.
Why you are so obsessed with light weight emtb's?? I don't get it?? Are you scared of your weight obsessed mtb days, just enjoy the benefits of a full powered emtb.
'''what this bike can do'' What about the rider? Where is the sense of accomplishment? E-bikes are cheapening the sport. If you are still healthy stay off the E-bike.
