well done! this is a lot more complicated than the psuedo randomness system I went with. I really like how you use collision boxes to move the keys because that was something I could not figure out myself. Ill briefly explain how the system in the actual level works here: the keys dont actually swap when they move, this was done to make the movements much more simple and modular for sake of randomization. there is a target point on each of the 8 slots that the keys move to and then reset back to their original position instantaneously and unnoticeably. Each "movement pattern" is a set of 8 spawn triggered move to target triggers that I can call with a single spawn trigger. The main issue with this system is because the keys dont actually move, I couldnt figure out how to track the position of the correct key at the time. What this meant is I ended up going with an array of 16 rows of possible orders of movement sets. I figured this is probably enough because 8 initial keys * 16 possible movements (equally likely chance btw) should be too much for any person to memorize and recall in the span of seconds, especially since you likely wont be able to tell the different "seeds" apart easily. The "special movements" as you called them (which is a name I like) are simply movements I put in to ensure the key does not stay at the top or bottom for too long. When testing I found that my patterns often left the keys on either the top or bottom for a while which is why I added these movements as well as the patterns where the top keys go to the bottom and vice versa. The other huge issue with this is because I actually randomized each of the 16 seeds with an actual randomizer, I had to go through and manually check every single pattern by hand to make sure I knew what the correct positions were for each seed. The other major advantage of this system is that it requires relatively very few groups, which was obviously extremely important for a level of this magnitude. All the groups that are needed are 16 groups for each seed, 1 group for each move set, 16 more groups for each key and the target position it rests on, and 8 groups for the 8 possible starting keys + a few more for the actual randomizer that selects which seed to use and which key to start with. I wanted to make a video on this a while back but never got around to it, thanks for the cool explanation and clever implementation. I didnt know how to use collision blocks at the time so its cool seeing it done this way
I never thought the keys could just be a visual facade like that; that’s probably how mindcap manages to keep the keys from derailing while not using a billion group ID’s. Doing a system like that to keep the visuals consistent and the collision box method (off screen most likely) to keep the set key collision box tracked (while using simpler movements instead of actually moving it during the special movements to prevent that collision box from completely de-railing) would make for a much better and more optimized result. One of the main issue with this design in the sheer quantity of group-ID it uses, most of which comes from (manually, btw, cause builder helper doesn’t work the way you need it too) putting tons of collision triggers for every possible movement for all 8 keys, but for this system, you would only need the one for set key’s collision box and then activate a group of move triggers for the fake key display. This almost makes me want to make a even better version, but that’s still a lot of work so…… naw
in my remake since im not the best with triggers i honestly just used a lot of use target move triggers, and since i also code discord bots, im used to using variables, which is why i use a fuck ton of item IDs and pickups and count triggers and such
@@HyperFire tbh, I’m good lol, even though combining it would make it easier than my original version, that’s a lotta work lol. If you are anyone else want to do it though, my version is copyable if you want to see how to do the collision box thing in more detail
Im making an even more stressful ending, you have to pick 3 keys throughout the level but the screen goes dark and you don't know if you picked them until the end
Technically no. You can just put the keys at the ending of the apocalyptic trilogy and that would be the most stressful thing ever. What makes the keys special is the fact when you compare it to the rest of the level’s difficulty.
This is really sick (even though I couldn't understand like half of it lol)! I'm confused - is this your own take on the ending, or is this Mindcap's version of the ending used in the official level?
Yeah sorry it’s complicated, I tried my best but it’s a crazy topic. So this was an explanation of how I made my version of Mindcap’s version which I believed was pretty accurate, but the discussion between chron44 (pinned comment) explains a much more accurate version.
So in short term: Keys swap around and you have to watch the green key at the start of the wave then the keys go offscreen and you have to let go when the correct key flashes at the end. That's really neat
According to Chron (pinned comment) there is a way to do it more accurately and with less. Basically if you where able to figure out anything in the video, you can do the same thing but just with the correct keys hit box and none of the wrong keys, and have a set of visual/fake keys representing the movements that the correct key’s hit box would travel in
With the amount of time you have put into that I'd swap our amount of subs without hesitation if I could (although I don't have that much more you definitely deserve them way more lmao)
If you want a visual tutorial, the project is a too complex to do so without some communicating Also nothing really changes from 2.1 to 2.2, and if so I am not doing it. Apologies
Yeah it is hard to do it bcz you not only need to look at the key that lights up at the start but you also need to be careful with the wave. I can't Imagine me playing it
Yeah, it uses a lot of advanced triggers and when talking about something so complicated, it’s hard to explain things in a way that doesn’t only make sense to me, but thanks for watching :D
How the fuck do some of the gd members not know how to spell and then we have people that can make these insanely hard and confusing puzzles. I now have a lot of respect for anyone who can beat this, much less understand it.
Are you talking about the spike blocking you from choosing? If so, it’s because the spike goes away, so as soon as you release you pick whatever key if glowing without dying. Plus you still can’t cheat because in-pausing will result in you picking what key is highlighted already
i dont get it, how are people malding that the random trigger in 2.2 will ruin the game but here we have mincap who puts bullshit like this at the end of a hard extreme demon, like yeah i guess it looks cool ,but also an asshole move and I know well that even mindcap himself cant beat his own part
1. I don’t get people complaining over the random trigger either, it’s either used well and there’s no fuss or it used poorly and the level gets ridiculed and not rated 2. The main concern people have about the random trigger is that you can get randomly killed or randomly given a much harder route than another possible route, but with this ending, while yes some key movements are harder to follow than others, you would have to get insanely unlucky to get a combination of the hardest movements and maybe it’s impossible too as I’m not sure if it’s random to get any possible movement at any point or just a random selection of a few movements at each point (which would prevent getting those harder movements back to back). So the ending is less about getting lucky to not die, and more of having to pay attention to where the key is going instead of just memorizing where it will end up. 3. I’m pretty sure he did beat it, the first vid of the ending shows it but it could be hacked, but that’s still a not the best point because creators have their stuff verified by other people allllllll the time so who cares if he never beat it
btw, can you elaborate more on how you make the keys not derail and also how you make them shuffle and how the collision triggers worked and blueghhhghheghehge ALSO ONE MORE SUBSCRIBER UNTIL 900 CMON
So the keys don’t derail because how they moved are based on collision boxes that only appear in certain places that activate a corresponding move trigger; so as long as you don’t have a collision box that (when toggled and detects a collision with a key’s collision box, activates a corresponding move trigger) will cause a key to go the wrong way, they should not derail. TLDR: you have to use collision boxes and not just move triggers to prevent the keys from derailing in a purely randomized key segment. Shuffling is just a matter of having different movement collision boxes & move triggers corresponding to those movement collision boxes. So you have a CB for moving the key up, or left, or diagonally right, or up 3 spots and right 1, etc.
It’s important to know that you are not physically grabbing the key: each key has a corresponding collision box and you are selecting that with another collision box. When the player holds to stay on the anti-cheat pillar, a touch trigger on hold mode is activated, as soon as you let go, another set of triggers detect that touch trigger deactivating, which then activated that collision box that selects the keys. When it’s time to select the keys, all the key’s collision boxes are toggled, and are re-toggled when they light up on the selection phase. So when the key that you want to select lights up, that means it’s collision box is a toggled and you release, selecting the collision box. You also don’t die because the spike that kills you goes away as soon as the first key is able to be selected (and this doesn’t mean you can cheat there because you’ll just end up selecting what ever key was lit up when you paused).
If you are referring to the random trigger, then not really. The randomization is the easiest part and isn’t new. Although I believe he is adding some adding and subtracting to number IDs which could make it more efficient and possibly a lot easier yes
The fun part is figuring it out yourself, and if you don’t care to do that then you can copy my level (it is a mess though so good luck using it for anything)
